Agh this thread gave me a headache near the end.
I'm not sure how people think that any WS is "required" for a job to be functional. If you have a certain play style, stick to it and work with that as Blazed is pointing out.
If you're trying to gear multiple jobs then don't gimp yourself with meriting WS that will only benefit you on one particular job if it means sacrificing other jobs' utility for other events.
It's not a difficult concept to understand that there is no wrong way to play the game, but if you chose to play a certain way that focuses on solo or low man activity, your options for other endeavors become much more limited.
Merit Weaponskill 2014
Merit Weaponskill 2014
Tawhoya said:
I'm not sure how people think that any WS is "required" for a job to be functional.
I'm not sure how people think they can get away with not obtaining a WS. If you want to DD in anything that matters, then have your best weapon skills unlocked. Relic aside, if a DD is missing their necessary mythic, empyrean, trial or merit weapon skills, kick 'em to the curb and grab one who does. They're a dime a dozen, after all.
Anyways,
Shijin Spiral - No
Exenterator - No
Requiescat - Yes
Resolution - Yes
Ruinator - Yes
Upheaval - Yes
Entropy - Yes
Stardiver - Yes
Blade: Shun - Yes
Tachi: Shoha - Yes
Realmrazer - Yes
Shattersoul - No
Apex arrow - No
Last Stand - Yes
Those are the weapon skills that, in my opinion, are worth meriting. No one can tell you which to merit or cap because it comes down to preference and what jobs your group/linkshell can use. There is no end-all be-all set for practicality and utility.
As
So it has its place. It is not the best group weapon perhaps, but it can help you make gil and do much solo.
So ima pay 100m+ and waste a merit slot to "make gil" soloing stuff I can do on other job in spark gear?
Also you don't need apoc to solo kaggen.
Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »
So it has its place. It is not the best group weapon perhaps, but it can help you make gil and do much solo.
So ima pay 100m+ and waste a merit slot to "make gil" soloing stuff I can do on other job in spark gear?
Also you don't need apoc to solo kaggen.
I don't know why it says Resolution is a must for RUN. I used Dimidiation on RUN for way more damage output.
Asura.Ccl said: »
As
So it has its place. It is not the best group weapon perhaps, but it can help you make gil and do much solo.
So ima pay 100m+ and waste a merit slot to "make gil" soloing stuff I can do on other job in spark gear?
Also you don't need apoc to solo kaggen.
Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »
So it has its place. It is not the best group weapon perhaps, but it can help you make gil and do much solo.
So ima pay 100m+ and waste a merit slot to "make gil" soloing stuff I can do on other job in spark gear?
Also you don't need apoc to solo kaggen.
For a drk you do. Sur other jobs may have their own methods, but a drk is an up front melee, non kiter job with limited healing. So yea I don't think you can beat him without it. Unless your going to use those 20k weakened items.
I would add shattersoul to the list if you unlock sch. With the old regen staff or skirmish 2 staff you can equal if not surpass sams in some events skill chaining and over all dmg output.
Outer ro ... skirmish, you can be the one who double skill chain kills the NM monkey as long as you can survive 3-5 hits. You can do the same for the VW sword mob. And cerebus you can put out good dmg. If you not going to skill chain though, I don't recommended unlocking shattersoul.
The new staff 228 Dmg, vs GK 242, but with Magic dmg, Magic burst dmg and skill chain bonus dmg, sch can out skill chain Sam if done properly now.
Asura.Triffle said: »
I don't know why it says Resolution is a must for RUN. I used Dimidiation on RUN for way more damage output.
Because 5/5 Reso is pretty much THE most damaging GS WS in the game...
Dimidiation is like a better Torcleaver, eg: DEX vs VIT.
But unless you're just not gear swapping and/or thinking 1/5 is ok for Resolution... It should still pull ahead of Dimidiation... Even at 1/5... (Cause of how +STR contributes 2x to the damage of Reso.)
Resolution is one of the WSs that you should 5/5... Just because of how redic it is at that level. (Vs say Exenterator which has very little change from 1/5~5/5 in terms of damage comparatively.)
I can see Dim getting you better results if you're solo. It's the same discussion as Torcleaver..if it beats Reso you're underbuffed.
Or not changing gear for it.
(Especially with Reso v Dimi... RUN is "light armor" and that tends to have a lot more DEX than it does STR, especially from its RFs.)
(Especially with Reso v Dimi... RUN is "light armor" and that tends to have a lot more DEX than it does STR, especially from its RFs.)
Sylph.Feary said: »
Shijin 0/5 - Not necessary with release of Victory Smite and various adjustments from other option via ws update.
Exenterator - Most have for non REM and Dancer.
Requiescat - Utility for Cor, Sam, Run in Delve. Must have options for BLU/PLD mains.
Resolution - Must have for DRK/WAR/RUN.
Ruinator - Must have for Serious BST, Rampage is meh vs it. option for war.
Upheavel - Nice GA ws but not necessary with Res and Ukko's
Entropy - none necessary, with Res/cata
Stardiver - Top Polearm ws for none Mythics, must have if main, Drakesbane is an accept alt ws, Camlaan torment option too?
Blade: Shun - not needed with Hi and jin.
Shoha - Fudo is king. unlock if main.
realm - unecessary
Shatter - nice for blm brd soloing, but not worth points if short on options
apex arrow - must have for bow non relic sam, otherwise dont bother.
Last Stand - Must have if you pay cor or rng.
so that leaves me at
3/5 Last stand
3/5 Res
3/5 Exen
3/5 ruin
3/5 Requiescat
Exenterator - Most have for non REM and Dancer.
Requiescat - Utility for Cor, Sam, Run in Delve. Must have options for BLU/PLD mains.
Resolution - Must have for DRK/WAR/RUN.
Ruinator - Must have for Serious BST, Rampage is meh vs it. option for war.
Upheavel - Nice GA ws but not necessary with Res and Ukko's
Entropy - none necessary, with Res/cata
Stardiver - Top Polearm ws for none Mythics, must have if main, Drakesbane is an accept alt ws, Camlaan torment option too?
Blade: Shun - not needed with Hi and jin.
Shoha - Fudo is king. unlock if main.
realm - unecessary
Shatter - nice for blm brd soloing, but not worth points if short on options
apex arrow - must have for bow non relic sam, otherwise dont bother.
Last Stand - Must have if you pay cor or rng.
so that leaves me at
3/5 Last stand
3/5 Res
3/5 Exen
3/5 ruin
3/5 Requiescat
I'd pick last stand(for COR), reso(for DRK), shoha(for SAM). Maaaaybe 1/5 req. But IMO req is completely unnecessary to have thanks to other none elemental dmg method in this game.
I'd do ruin if you BST a lot, otherwise everything else is more like a bonus rather than must have.
FaeQueenCory said: »
Because 5/5 Reso is pretty much THE most damaging GS WS in the game...
Dimidiation is like a better Torcleaver, eg: DEX vs VIT.
But unless you're just not gear swapping and/or thinking 1/5 is ok for Resolution... It should still pull ahead of Dimidiation... Even at 1/5... (Cause of how +STR contributes 2x to the damage of Reso.)
Resolution is one of the WSs that you should 5/5... Just because of how redic it is at that level. (Vs say Exenterator which has very little change from 1/5~5/5 in terms of damage comparatively.)
Dimidiation is like a better Torcleaver, eg: DEX vs VIT.
But unless you're just not gear swapping and/or thinking 1/5 is ok for Resolution... It should still pull ahead of Dimidiation... Even at 1/5... (Cause of how +STR contributes 2x to the damage of Reso.)
Resolution is one of the WSs that you should 5/5... Just because of how redic it is at that level. (Vs say Exenterator which has very little change from 1/5~5/5 in terms of damage comparatively.)
He should 5/5 reso more because of DRK, less because of RUN. Personally I wouldn't give a damn about how a tank job(with quite a bit of hate tools, mind you)parse 5% higher with a different WS.
A lot of "this WS is good" argument is based wanting the job to have max performance in niche situations. In fact you don't really need every WS to be functional, especially for a player with all jobs leveled....can easily job change and get things done.
Some say Req is useful, all my jobs can use req but I haven't feel the need to use them in events for ages.
Why would someone want to merit req when u can have cdc for blu and pld and attonment for high end battles like AA no dont merit requeiscat save for something else!
voiceless said: »
Why would someone want to merit req when u can have cdc for blu and pld and attonment for high end battles like AA no dont merit requeiscat save for something else!
If you are hitting for less than 100 per hit on mobs, it's a pretty good idea to use Requiescat over CDC.
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
voiceless said: »
Why would someone want to merit req when u can have cdc for blu and pld and attonment for high end battles like AA no dont merit requeiscat save for something else!
If you are hitting for less than 100 per hit on mobs, it's a pretty good idea to use Requiescat over CDC.
Or job change to MNK and do formless. This WS really isn't that useful for ppl playing multiple jobs.
Afania said:
Or job change to MNK and do formless. This WS really isn't that useful for ppl playing multiple jobs.
PLD RDM and BLU are multiple jobs.
[+]
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
voiceless said: »
Why would someone want to merit req when u can have cdc for blu and pld and attonment for high end battles like AA no dont merit requeiscat save for something else!
If you are hitting for less than 100 per hit on mobs, it's a pretty good idea to use Requiescat over CDC.
Or job change to MNK and do formless. This WS really isn't that useful for ppl playing multiple jobs.
I don't. I don't plan on getting it to 99 as I already have a job that can outparse about 99% of the MNKs in the game.
Quick, everyone start saying how you'd outparse everyone and bet 500m on it.
Bismarck.Inference said: »
Quick, everyone start saying how you'd outparse everyone and bet 500m on it.
I'd be as low a 1m ! Come on Asura cheap bet!
FaeQueenCory said: »
Asura.Triffle said: »
I don't know why it says Resolution is a must for RUN. I used Dimidiation on RUN for way more damage output.
Because 5/5 Reso is pretty much THE most damaging GS WS in the game...
Dimidiation is like a better Torcleaver, eg: DEX vs VIT.
But unless you're just not gear swapping and/or thinking 1/5 is ok for Resolution... It should still pull ahead of Dimidiation... Even at 1/5... (Cause of how +STR contributes 2x to the damage of Reso.)
Resolution is one of the WSs that you should 5/5... Just because of how redic it is at that level. (Vs say Exenterator which has very little change from 1/5~5/5 in terms of damage comparatively.)
Apparently at under 2000 TP Dimidiation out damages Resolution. So unless you're going to TP to 2000-3000 each time...
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
voiceless said: »
Why would someone want to merit req when u can have cdc for blu and pld and attonment for high end battles like AA no dont merit requeiscat save for something else!
If you are hitting for less than 100 per hit on mobs, it's a pretty good idea to use Requiescat over CDC.
Or job change to MNK and do formless. This WS really isn't that useful for ppl playing multiple jobs.
I don't. I don't plan on getting it to 99 as I already have a job that can outparse about 99% of the MNKs in the game.
But OP has, and he's the one that's asking the question. There's no way he can maximize everything with multiple jobs, the more logical answer is to skip some of the WS that's only useful in niche situations.
Shiva.Shruiken said: »
Afania said:
Or job change to MNK and do formless. This WS really isn't that useful for ppl playing multiple jobs.
PLD RDM and BLU are multiple jobs.
I can't think of any thing that'd NEED req when playing PLD, since it's mostly used in AA/DM and you don't need req for it.
RDM usually doesn't melee and BLU usually isn't used in events either.
If you only play 2~3 jobs maybe you do need situational WS, but if you play more than 10 jobs you probably don't need them all.....you can't get them all anyways.
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
I can't think of any thing that'd NEED req when playing PLD, since it's mostly used in AA/DM and you don't need req for it.
RDM usually don't melee and BLU usually isn't used in events either.
RDM melee anytime they feel like meleeing, if you can do your job while contributing damage. Why is that championed when a COR does it but shamed when a RDM does it? I never understood this.
BLU is used for all kinds of stuff, especially when the ability to deal many types of damage is useful.
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
I can't think of any thing that'd NEED req when playing PLD, since it's mostly used in AA/DM and you don't need req for it.
RDM usually don't melee and BLU usually isn't used in events either.
RDM melee anytime they feel like meleeing, if you can do your job while contributing damage. Why is that championed when a COR does it but shamed when a RDM does it? I never understood this.
BLU is used for all kinds of stuff, especially when the ability to deal many types of damage is useful.
AFAIK you can clear most of the contents with SAM MNK setup at close to max efficiency without BLU in pt.
Unless your RDM is subbing NIN in event(and they don't get stun that way), melee RDM is less increase than merit reso/shoha.
COR doing dmg is more about it's not worth a pt spot if it doesn't do dmg though. While RDM is still very useful without doing melee dmg. I agree the COR argument can maybe make last stand merit less useful.....he can just bring other job to the pt without last stand as well.
OP asked a question, and I simply answered his question based on the fact that he has all jobs 99, therefore he has to pick the WS with most increase, instead of picking WS for niche situations/smaller increase. If he only has 1~3 jobs I'd have completely different answer.....I have req for my COR, and I do use it when I farm PW pop on one of the ZNM. But if I have all jobs 99 I probably wouldn't need it since I can job change for different dmg type.
Afania said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
I can't think of any thing that'd NEED req when playing PLD, since it's mostly used in AA/DM and you don't need req for it.
RDM usually don't melee and BLU usually isn't used in events either.
RDM melee anytime they feel like meleeing, if you can do your job while contributing damage. Why is that championed when a COR does it but shamed when a RDM does it? I never understood this.
BLU is used for all kinds of stuff, especially when the ability to deal many types of damage is useful.
AFAIK most of the content can still be clear with SAM MNK setup at close to max efficiency without BLU in pt.
Unless your RDM is subbing NIN in event(and they don't get stun that way), melee RDM is less increase than merit reso/shoha.
COR doing dmg is more about it's not worth a pt spot if it doesn't do dmg though. While RDM is still very useful without doing melee dmg. I agree the COR argument can maybe make last stand merit less useful.....he can just bring other job to the pt without last stand as well.
OP asked a question, and I simply answered his question based on the fact that he has all jobs 99, therefore he has to pick the WS with most increase, instead of picking WS for niche situations/smaller increase. If he only has 1~3 jobs I'd have completely different answer.....I have req for my COR, and I do use it when I farm PW pop on one of the ZNM. But if I have all jobs 99 I probably wouldn't need it since I can job change for different dmg type.
I get what you're saying, but Req is worth 1/5 almost regardless just because it offers something that no other WS does.
Odin.Jassik said: »
Afania said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
I can't think of any thing that'd NEED req when playing PLD, since it's mostly used in AA/DM and you don't need req for it.
RDM usually don't melee and BLU usually isn't used in events either.
RDM melee anytime they feel like meleeing, if you can do your job while contributing damage. Why is that championed when a COR does it but shamed when a RDM does it? I never understood this.
BLU is used for all kinds of stuff, especially when the ability to deal many types of damage is useful.
AFAIK most of the content can still be clear with SAM MNK setup at close to max efficiency without BLU in pt.
Unless your RDM is subbing NIN in event(and they don't get stun that way), melee RDM is less increase than merit reso/shoha.
COR doing dmg is more about it's not worth a pt spot if it doesn't do dmg though. While RDM is still very useful without doing melee dmg. I agree the COR argument can maybe make last stand merit less useful.....he can just bring other job to the pt without last stand as well.
OP asked a question, and I simply answered his question based on the fact that he has all jobs 99, therefore he has to pick the WS with most increase, instead of picking WS for niche situations/smaller increase. If he only has 1~3 jobs I'd have completely different answer.....I have req for my COR, and I do use it when I farm PW pop on one of the ZNM. But if I have all jobs 99 I probably wouldn't need it since I can job change for different dmg type.
I get what you're saying, but Req is worth 1/5 almost regardless just because it offers something that no other WS does.
Personal opinion I guess. I have Req 5/5 and it's certainly the least used WS for me....I even use exen more often than req.
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
voiceless said: »
Why would someone want to merit req when u can have cdc for blu and pld and attonment for high end battles like AA no dont merit requeiscat save for something else!
If you are hitting for less than 100 per hit on mobs, it's a pretty good idea to use Requiescat over CDC.
Or job change to MNK and do formless. This WS really isn't that useful for ppl playing multiple jobs.
No, formless has a 10m cooldown with a 3m duration, that's not good enough sometimes. Req has an abundance of use's, not the least of which is different SC options on BLU. It's not a main WS, but anyone who plays BLU should have it to 1/5 at least as a utility WS.
Quote:
Apparently at under 2000 TP Dimidiation out damages Resolution. So unless you're going to TP to 2000-3000 each time...
No, not even remotely close. Earlier I posted the fTP's and respective WSC's and Reso beats Dim at all values. Dim would be 3.8125 fTP at 1250 (moonshade) with 80% DEX WSC while Reso would be 5.58 fTP and 85% STR WSC at 1250 (moodshade + gorget/belt). Dim would be 4.0125 with the gorget/belt but other pieces might be better due to how little the +0.2 fTP raise's the damage. This is before counting multi-attack procs which further help Reso more due to it getting +1.114 fTP per proc vs Dim's +1.0 fTP . Reso is only -15% attack, and while it hurts, it's not enough to overcome the large fTP disparity between the two.
Was your information not counting moonshade and the gorget/belt on Reso?
For those wondering about Reso, the buff SE just made had a large increase on it's damage at 1000TP. Previously belt+gorget+moonshade Reso was 0.95 fTP per hit, now it's 1.114 fTP per hit which is a 17.2% increase in it's damage. That is why that even while other WS's like Torc got stronger, Reso stayed on top.
I seem to recall a test from someone where at exactely 1000 TP Dimidiation could be slightly better than Resolution if you had attackdown or a very low attack for your current target.
I seem to recall in such a situation Dimidiation at 1000 could produce slightly better results than Reso.
Tried to find the test on BG but no success =/
I seem to recall in such a situation Dimidiation at 1000 could produce slightly better results than Reso.
Tried to find the test on BG but no success =/
Shiva.Shruiken said: »
Blade: Shun - Yes
Tachi: Shoha - Yes
Apex arrow - No
Tachi: Shoha - Yes
Apex arrow - No
Shun sucks. Unless you don't have Blade: Hi you should never consider using Shun over Hi. And if you don't have Hi... what are you waiting for? :P I've tested Shun in several scenarios, even putting Hi to disadvantage, and I couldn't come out with numbers where Shun was even remotely better than Hi. Which kinda saddens me 'cause I love Shun and hate one-hit WSs like Hi.
Shoha is still nice, it's the only (worth) over one-hit WS SAM has and it's good for SC purposes. But aside very situational uses, Fudo is practically almost better. I wouldn't skip it, just saying it's not as "necessary" or "mandatory" as it was before.
Apex Arrow may not be that great, but it's the only Ranged WS option for Samurais without Yoichinoyumi and Namas Arrow.
For those few situations where you're on SAM and demanded to deal both Slashing/Melee and Piercing/Ranged damage, Apex is your ownly option, it's not a matter of it being good or bad, there just isn't an alternative if you don't have a Yoichinoyumi.
Personally I don't know what to get myself. I have this 5/5 Exenterator to turn into 0 but I have no clue what to get in return lol
Asura.Sechs said: »
I seem to recall a test from someone where at exactely 1000 TP Dimidiation could be slightly better than Resolution if you had attackdown or a very low attack for your current target.
I seem to recall in such a situation Dimidiation at 1000 could produce slightly better results than Reso.
Tried to find the test on BG but no success =/
I seem to recall in such a situation Dimidiation at 1000 could produce slightly better results than Reso.
Tried to find the test on BG but no success =/
That was on the pre-update Reso vs very high defense targets. Post-update not a chance in hell, the difference in fTP values is simply too great. Remember STR is a better mod then DEX due to it also effecting fSTR and attack.
Sechs said:
My comments on these:
Shun sucks. Unless you don't have Blade: Hi you should never consider using Shun over Hi. And if you don't have Hi... what are you waiting for? :P I've tested Shun in several scenarios, even putting Hi to disadvantage, and I couldn't come out with numbers where Shun was even remotely better than Hi. Which kinda saddens me 'cause I love Shun and hate one-hit WSs like Hi.
Shun sucks. Unless you don't have Blade: Hi you should never consider using Shun over Hi. And if you don't have Hi... what are you waiting for? :P I've tested Shun in several scenarios, even putting Hi to disadvantage, and I couldn't come out with numbers where Shun was even remotely better than Hi. Which kinda saddens me 'cause I love Shun and hate one-hit WSs like Hi.
As gdiShun said on page 1,
gdiShun said:
Hi > Shun >= Ku > Kamu >= Jin is the order now. Shun is also the only Fusion-based WS for Katana. A Shun into Light will destroy even Hi
That said, if you're not on it much, you obviously still can get by without it. As Ku will be slightly better unless 5/5 I believe, and Hi is better than both.
That said, if you're not on it much, you obviously still can get by without it. As Ku will be slightly better unless 5/5 I believe, and Hi is better than both.
Sechs said:
Shoha is still nice, it's the only (worth) over one-hit WS SAM has and it's good for SC purposes. But aside very situational uses, Fudo is practically almost better. I wouldn't skip it, just saying it's not as "necessary" or "mandatory" as it was before.
Of course Fudo is better, but Shoha is necessary at least 1/5 to make 4 step light. SAMs should have all Fudo, Shoha, Rana, and Kasha.
Sechs said:
Apex Arrow may not be that great, but it's the only Ranged WS option for Samurais without Yoichinoyumi and Namas Arrow.
For those few situations where you're on SAM and demanded to deal both Slashing/Melee and Piercing/Ranged damage, Apex is your ownly option, it's not a matter of it being good or bad, there just isn't an alternative if you don't have a Yoichinoyumi.
For those few situations where you're on SAM and demanded to deal both Slashing/Melee and Piercing/Ranged damage, Apex is your ownly option, it's not a matter of it being good or bad, there just isn't an alternative if you don't have a Yoichinoyumi.
I wouldn't bother playing ranged SAM in Delve 2 or high-tier battlefields unless you have a Yoichi. The only reasonably practical application Apex may have is for Bee, and even then I'd rather just play another job and save my merits. Who's spamming Bee anyway?
Most of my list are weapon skills I wouldn't merit myself, but I understand why people do.
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