Merit Weaponskill 2014

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Merit Weaponskill 2014
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-09-08 19:27:30
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Morimar is the only zone where stuns make a significant difference, I've never even seen stuns in Ceizak.

Then you have filters cause Incisive moves and Volley are pure suckage.

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Muyingwa

Weakness, massive loss on all stats and potent paralyze with zombie effect. The rest are minor but those three can cause a DD to be one shoted. It's no different then Lahar, Roar, Statis and Blow.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-08 19:36:15
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Morimar is the only zone where stuns make a significant difference, I've never even seen stuns in Ceizak.

Then you have filters cause Incisive moves and Volley are pure suckage.

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Muyingwa

Weakness, massive loss on all stats and potent paralyze with zombie effect. The rest are minor but those three can cause a DD to be one shoted. It's no different then Lahar, Roar, Statis and Blow.

No, I've never taken a stunner into Ceizak in dozens of runs and I'v never wiped to Bee. We've had DD's go down from time to time, that's just part of Delve. But if you're wiping to bee with or without stuns, you have some larger issues to address.

Bee's weakness lasts like 10 seconds or less. DD's turtle up, MNK uses mantra if it's up.
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2014-09-08 20:14:07
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
I have no doubt that if both the ice tiger and the thunder bird were to sit there and let you kill them, that SAM would crush it. Both of those have very dangerous and crippling TP moves that can't be stunned. Glacial Entombment sucks and Glassy Nova pretty much destroys anything nearby, Static Prison is extremely cheap and similiar to Glassy Nova. Bee is an interesting case because you can have one run go super smooth, then another where it spams incisive moves and starts killing everyone while it's aura prevents stunning. If the aura gets dropped super quick then it's easy, if its doesn't then bad things happen fast.

The point was that the vast majority of groups do Shark / Bee only to get some returning friend of theirs wins, not selling them btw. I have no doubt that a group of extremely well geared players with powerful support can do things differently, but I tend to ignore the, by definition, niche segment of the player base and only focus on the mainstream players.
Like I said, I understand that the melee setup for Kamihr and Marjami is harder for new players, and the normal setup for shouts for this is still Rngs. However both of the fights can be crushed by Sam, the debuffs are annoying but don't even come close to making them do less damage than a Rng at distance would. Sam setups even for those two zones work and are faster.

The thing you aren't understanding is that the vast majority of Shark/Bee groups that are filled with first timers and new players don't take the setups you are saying anymore. I haven't seen a Rng bee since the WS buff patch. You don't need to be well geared to do T1 delve with the current iteration of Sam and Geo, they are beyond easy now. The defensive differences between a Mnk and a Sam are pretty small, especially after the HP nerfs, and the DPS differences are pretty large. It's actually safer to take a Sam to kill the mob faster than it is to take a Mnk/run for more defensive abilities in almost every situation.

Quote:
If your lucky and you get rid of it before he has a chance I could see it working, but most of the time its gonna get off and that's game over for your melees. Tank + RNG spam doesn't have to bother, especially if there is a relic RNG amongst them. Huge margin of error and virtually guaranteed win for less effort. Not to mention a single RDM could main heal and put Flurry II on the RNG's, don't need curaga III/IV if there is only one highly survivable melee in range.
Now I'm confused, you are talking about newer players being better with Rng setups, then talking about relic rngs. Also there is no super death move that is just going to wipe out melees, they are durable and shouldn't be coming close to getting 1 shot by anything in delve.
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 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-09-08 20:24:38
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Bird can do it pretty easily by dispelling shell and pro before hand.

Though anytime im near Calimaih im usually Rune and nothing he does can hurt me.

Kamihr can be done with Sam (yoichi esp) and a Mnk who understand the gimmicks fairly easily.
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By Afania 2014-09-09 00:24:09
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Afania said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
No, formless has a 10m cooldown with a 3m duration, that's not good enough sometimes.

When do you really really need req when you have access to formless? Can you give me an example? I'm certain you don't need req in all 6 delve zones.

On both Bee and Shark zones Req is incredibly useful. FS 10m recast REALLY sucks when your rushing through killing NM's and your monks are saying "sorry 3m left on FS". And that's without getting into it being useful as a SC opener on BLU. Probably not worth going 5/5 anymore but definitely should have 1/5 if you play BLU or possibly RUN. Just because you don't have room for it doesn't mean it's not useful nor a staple tool in BLU's arsenal.

This is FFXI, it's possible to make an argument for nearly anything by altering the conditions and assumptions enough. And if that fails you can resort to the tried and true noob shaming + humble bragging technique that you just demonstrated.


You're answering my question based on what YOUR jobs and what YOU choose to play as, doesn't mean OP normally bring BLU to bee/shark zone since the standard setup is SAM or MNK.

Normally ppl don't bring BLU to bee/shark unless it's their favorite job. You certainly don't need FS nor MNK in bee zone. Unless OP loves BLU enough to bring it to above zones, he'd be sacrificing the output of other jobs for it.

The standard setup on Bee is PLD RNG RNG RNG BRD WHM/RDM and you bead out anything your uncomfortable with. After you get whichever noob needed the win you then spam Tojil for plasm. Shark is usually some combination of RUN BLU and MNK with much the same story. Bird is again more RNG's as is the Lion. Tree is the only one where SAM is standard, for the same reason MNK is standard on Tojil, the whole fight practically caters to its strengths. MNK is standard on Tojil and frequently used on Shark but is practically useless on Bee, seriously don't bring a MNK to bee your just making your fight harder.

And seriously... why would you use a SAM on bee over a BLU or RNG? It get stacking PDT every 25% that renders the SAM's slashing WS's nearly useless under 50% HP and so your not going to be pimping out Fudo's new brokenness. Req ignores the stacking PDT entirely and will do consistent damage throughout the fight. RNG's get fully powered ranged WS's like JR or LS to go with their broken relics and ranged focus geared while enjoying the 2x piercing damage bonus and not needing to stand in range of the annoying moves. SAM would do good damage on Shark but Shark isn't a DPS race like the rest, it's an endurance fight where staying alive and not getting one shoted by Guillotine is the key to success along with the zone possessing two NM's that require non-physical damage.

Those "standard" "best chance at winning" setups aren't always viable as your friends Fred and Joe might not have those specific jobs geared to the same level as other jobs they have. And so there are alternative strategies. Unless of course you don't play the game with friends.


Of course these fights can be done with a multitude of setups, each with different chances of success. I find that Bee / Shark runs are done to get someone a win KI and thus you won't have your all star lineup going in.


Wtf are you talking about? I've been using double sam before ws update, always sub 2 min kill. Don't need rng nor blu.

No way blu can outparse sam on bee. Rng maybe could, but that's usually on bee only but not the other NM.

Bead ceizak? Lol. Can't take your suggestion seriously if you're suggesting OP to bead just to use inferior setup.
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By Afania 2014-09-09 00:29:37
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Also namas can sc light, which makes a difference now. SAM is still better.
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2014-09-12 15:21:46
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Aura drops off before it can even tp with just SC Damage, adding in MBs makes it virtually instant. I will admit that SAM on kamhir is rather annoying without namas, so def recommended but not required. Slashing resistance is a ***. Marjami would be my favorite zone to spam with sam if not for harpy, still very possible to die without 1h and that adds an annoying time sink.
 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2014-09-12 15:43:21
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Phoenix.Dramatica said: »
Aura drops off before it can even tp with just SC Damage
Are you talking about Marjami boss? I've never seen aura drop without MBing. With RNG strat they should be Darkness SCing nearly the entire fight but we never got it to drop unless I MB'd with Lunge on PLD.
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By FaeQueenCory 2014-09-12 16:44:21
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Asura.Triffle said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
Asura.Triffle said: »
I don't know why it says Resolution is a must for RUN. I used Dimidiation on RUN for way more damage output.
Pretty sure.... You either weren't 5/5 Resolution.... Or... Shenanigans.

Because 5/5 Reso is pretty much THE most damaging GS WS in the game...
Dimidiation is like a better Torcleaver, eg: DEX vs VIT.
But unless you're just not gear swapping and/or thinking 1/5 is ok for Resolution... It should still pull ahead of Dimidiation... Even at 1/5... (Cause of how +STR contributes 2x to the damage of Reso.)

Resolution is one of the WSs that you should 5/5... Just because of how redic it is at that level. (Vs say Exenterator which has very little change from 1/5~5/5 in terms of damage comparatively.)

Apparently at under 2000 TP Dimidiation out damages Resolution. So unless you're going to TP to 2000-3000 each time...
Lolwha?
How do you figure that?
Because... When I Resolution at 1000ish and Dimidiation at 1000ish.... On RUN....
My Resolution is always higher, or the same. It's never lower.
(And I count within +/-100dmg as the same.)

Either you're having really big acc problems, or you're not gear swapping into +STR +atk gear for Resolution and +DEX +atk gear for Dimidiation...
Because Resolution consistently beats out Dimidiation.
That is... Unless you're comparing suboptimal 1~4/5 with Dimidiation... Then you're probably right. But 5/5? No contest.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2014-09-16 03:35:53
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There was a time where under 2000 TP and with very very low attack (or against targets with very high defense) Dimidiation could produce slightly better results than Resolution.

But I think this only happened for a short time, after Dimi's release and before the WS reform.
As someone pointed out a few pages ago since when WS got rehauled Resolution got even better and now it's 100% of the times better than Dimidiation in every possible condition.

Dimi still has an use for SC purposes I guess (self light etc) but other than that it's a good WS but inferior to Reso.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [1112 days between previous and next post]
 Sylph.Feary
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By Sylph.Feary 2017-10-01 17:55:52
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With the addition of Aeonics, Skillchain mechanics and weapon skill adjustments. i thought id revisit this topic.

you want to have flexible in end game with all jobs, you have 15 Points. how do you spend them and Why?

Shijin Spiral, 0/5
Exenterator,0/5
Requiescat 0/5
Resolution 0/5
Ruinator 0/5
Upheaval 0/5
Entropy 0/5
Stardiver 0/5
Blade Shun 0/5
Tachi Shoha 0/5
Realmrazer 0/5
Shattersoul 0/5
Apex Arrow 0/5
Last Stand 5/5 0/5


p.s necroed. haha wow 1112 days ago and i still am not committed to an answer.
 Sylph.Feary
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By Sylph.Feary 2017-10-01 18:02:03
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here is my theory

Shijin Spiral, 0/5 has better ws
Exenterator, 0/5 has better ws
Requiescat 1/5 best ws for job
Resolution 3/5 best ws for job
Ruinator 1/5 best ws for job
Upheaval 0/5 has better ws
Entropy 0/5 has better ws
Stardiver 5/5 best ws for job
Blade Shun 0/5 has better ws
Tachi Shoha 0/5 has better ws
Realmrazer 0/5 has better ws
Shattersoul 0/5 has better ws
Apex Arrow 0/5 has better ws
Last Stand 5/5 best ws for job
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-10-01 18:04:09
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reso, req, whatever
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-01 18:32:36
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1/5 all so access to every ws. If you have no love for that then your list are Perfect for you.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2017-10-01 19:22:59
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Sylph.Feary said: »
here is my theory

Shijin Spiral, 0/5 has better ws
Exenterator, 0/5 has better ws
Requiescat 1/5 best ws for job
Resolution 3/5 best ws for job
Ruinator 1/5 best ws for job
Upheaval 0/5 has better ws
Entropy 0/5 has better ws
Stardiver 5/5 best ws for job
Blade Shun 0/5 has better ws
Tachi Shoha 0/5 has better ws
Realmrazer 0/5 has better ws
Shattersoul 0/5 has better ws
Apex Arrow 0/5 has better ws
Last Stand 5/5 best ws for job
For DRG, if you have Trishula and don't really want to use any other polearms then you could drop stardiver merits, since the Aeonic gives you fully upgraded stardiver. Would free up a full WS worth of merits.
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By fillerbunny9 2017-10-01 19:40:00
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Sylph.Feary said: »
here is my theory

Shijin Spiral, 0/5 has better ws
Exenterator, 0/5 has better ws
Requiescat 1/5 best ws for job
Resolution 3/5 best ws for job
Ruinator 1/5 best ws for job
Upheaval 0/5 has better ws
Entropy 0/5 has better ws
Stardiver 5/5 best ws for job
Blade Shun 0/5 has better ws
Tachi Shoha 0/5 has better ws
Realmrazer 0/5 has better ws
Shattersoul 0/5 has better ws
Apex Arrow 0/5 has better ws
Last Stand 5/5 best ws for job
For DRG, if you have Trishula and don't really want to use any other polearms then you could drop stardiver merits, since the Aeonic gives you fully upgraded stardiver. Would free up a full WS worth of merits.

Same goes for Fomalhaut/Last Stand.
 Asura.Omgwhy
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By Asura.Omgwhy 2017-10-01 22:21:29
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fillerbunny9 said: »
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Sylph.Feary said: »
here is my theory

Shijin Spiral, 0/5 has better ws
Exenterator, 0/5 has better ws
Requiescat 1/5 best ws for job
Resolution 3/5 best ws for job
Ruinator 1/5 best ws for job
Upheaval 0/5 has better ws
Entropy 0/5 has better ws
Stardiver 5/5 best ws for job
Blade Shun 0/5 has better ws
Tachi Shoha 0/5 has better ws
Realmrazer 0/5 has better ws
Shattersoul 0/5 has better ws
Apex Arrow 0/5 has better ws
Last Stand 5/5 best ws for job
For DRG, if you have Trishula and don't really want to use any other polearms then you could drop stardiver merits, since the Aeonic gives you fully upgraded stardiver. Would free up a full WS worth of merits.

Same goes for Fomalhaut/Last Stand.
Keep Last Stand merits for RNG, if you do Maju, you can't SC or it lvls up, so you want to use Anni.
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