California Debates 'yes Means Yes' Sex Assault Law

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California debates 'yes means yes' sex assault law
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-11 08:18:49
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
False rape allegations need to be penalized heavily.
As soon as you see that, you will notice a sharp drop of rape crimes in America.

Not because the crime itself was deterred, but because people (mainly women) will stop accusing others of rape for a payout.

Edit: paged, so here's a pic of the real reason why people make false rape allegations:





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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-11 08:23:17
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Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
You're not a real old man until you've seen "All in the Family".

Which is sort of funny, given at the time of its run it was making fun of stodgy old men...
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-08-11 08:26:07
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YouTube Video Placeholder
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-11 08:26:46
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
False rape allegations need to be penalized heavily.
As soon as you see that, you will notice a sharp drop of rape crimes in America.

Not because the crime itself was deterred, but because people (mainly women) will stop accusing others of rape for a payout.

It's just such a terribly vicious circle.

Rape is awful. Lying about someone raping you and ruining their life for it is every bit as awful.

This is why you see rich men (sports stars, actors, etc.) hiring high-end, uber-expensive prostitutes even though they could get action any time they want.

Paternity suits and rape allegations from gold-digging women are rough. Ask Ben Roethlisberger (who I'm not defending in any way; whether he did anything wrong or not, the guy has knowingly put himself in some really stupid situations).
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By fonewear 2014-08-11 08:30:06
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See Duke rape scandal.
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 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-08-11 08:31:05
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
You're not a real old man until you've seen "All in the Family".

Which is sort of funny, given at the time of its run it was making fun of racist stodgy old men...

The actor himself was fairly PC, though doing the show All in the Family, people believed he really was anti-Semitic and racist beyond all belief.

It was supposed to be one of his favorite regrets that he'd do again.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-08-11 08:34:38
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fonewear said: »
See Duke rape scandal.
I did and found this gem.

Quote:
The woman who in 2006 falsely accused three Duke university lacrosse players of raping her has been convicted of stabbing her boyfriend to death.

Crystal Mangum, 34, cried as a jury on Friday unanimously found her guilty of the second-degree murder of Reginald Daye, 46. She was sentenced to a minimum of 14 years in jail.

Quote:
A year before the stabbing, the trial heard, Mangum trashed another boyfriend's car, set fire to his clothes and almost burned down her home with her children inside. Daye's family requested the maximum sentence, saying he was loved and did not deserve his fate. The jury took six hours to convict.

Woman at centre of Duke lacrosse scandal convicted of murder
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-08-11 08:38:14
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Forgot to include that last part.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-11 08:38:22
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Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
You're not a real old man until you've seen "All in the Family".

Which is sort of funny, given at the time of its run it was making fun of racist stodgy old men...

The actor himself was fairly PC, though doing the show All in the Family, people believed he really was anti-Semitic and racist beyond all belief.

It was supposed to be one of his favorite regrets that he'd do again.

I said it was making fun of them. Not that he was one. :p

The entire show is a bright spot in American television history. It was first in facing a lot of negative aspects of the American middle class and "traditional" society head-on.
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-08-11 08:40:08
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Wow. Woman only gets 14 years in jail (minus time already served, good behavior, etc.) for a crime that would land a man in jail for 25 years or more, despite having a record of unstable, violent behavior.
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 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-08-11 08:42:19
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »
You're not a real old man until you've seen "All in the Family".

Which is sort of funny, given at the time of its run it was making fun of racist stodgy old men...

The actor himself was fairly PC, though doing the show All in the Family, people believed he really was anti-Semitic and racist beyond all belief.

It was supposed to be one of his favorite regrets that he'd do again.

I said it was making fun of them. Not that he was one. :p

The entire show is a bright spot in American television history. It was first in facing a lot of negative aspects of the American middle class and "traditional" society head-on.
Yeah, I'm well aware of it and the impact it had on the TV industry as well as society as a whole.

The character was very friendly, and personable to anyone and everyone, except his idiot son in law, to their face, but behind their back was another story. It was one of those legendary shows that made people think about what kind of behavior was being taught to the next generation
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-08-11 08:49:45
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Personally I'm huge fan of Three's Company. Have all the seasons on DVD too, lol.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-11 09:11:11
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Personally I'm huge fan of Three's Company. Have all the seasons on DVD too, lol.

While I saw plenty of reruns of things from the era growing up and I appreciate the cultural significance of many of them, I find rewatchability on them to be quite low.

Speaking of rape and consent, though, one show that does have rewatchability is Star Trek: The Original Series.

Kirk always got consent from those green women. Aww yeah.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-11 09:36:12
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Maybe girls should sign a waiver before deciding to get blackout drunk while hanging out with a bunch of college boys? I'm not justifying the behavior of the boys, but come on....
so what... are you saying that guys should just climb on top of any girl that gets black out drunk and have their way with them? Would you say the same if it happened to you? Some guy just violates you while you're passed out and well its your own fault?

There is no come on... People do stupid things it doesn't mean that others should get a pass on raping them for it...

People need to think about this more like its happening to them or their children... well honey... I know those boys raped you but honestly... you were totally asking for it by getting drunk liek that... now go to your room and think about what you did...
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-11 09:39:12
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
... well honey... I know those boys raped you but honestly... you were totally asking for it by getting drunk liek that... now go to your room and think about what you did...

There are people -- many, many people -- who think this is a valid response.

It's repulsive.

It's like leaving your car unlocked and finding your phone stolen from it.

Yes, people will criticize you for being "irresponsible" in leaving the car open; but that doesn't make the person who took your phone any less of a jerkass thief.

You don't blame old people for being old and easy victims for thieves and muggers, either.

A rapist is a rapist. And rapists are scum. Just because they select an easy target doesn't make them any less of a rapist.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-08-11 09:41:51
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
It's like leaving your car unlocked and finding your phone stolen from it.

no, it's not.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-11 09:42:40
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I'm laughing at all the people here so worried about false accusations... Do what you tell the victims to do... don't put yourself in the situation and you won't have to deal with it. I mean it's your fault for putting yourself in the situation right?
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-11 09:42:52
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Siren.Mosin said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
It's like leaving your car unlocked and finding your phone stolen from it.

no, it's not.

How is it not?

An open car doesn't make it okay to steal a phone.

A girl dressing sexy and drinking doesn't make it okay for you to have sex with her if she says no.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-11 09:44:14
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
False rape allegations need to be penalized heavily.
As soon as you see that, you will notice a sharp drop of rape crimes in America.

Not because the crime itself was deterred, but because people (mainly women) will stop accusing others of rape for a payout.

It's just such a terribly vicious circle.

Rape is awful. Lying about someone raping you and ruining their life for it is every bit as awful.

This is why you see rich men (sports stars, actors, etc.) hiring high-end, uber-expensive prostitutes even though they could get action any time they want.

Paternity suits and rape allegations from gold-digging women are rough. Ask Ben Roethlisberger (who I'm not defending in any way; whether he did anything wrong or not, the guy has knowingly put himself in some really stupid situations).
You can even extend that to false allegations of sexual harassment.

Back in the late 1990s, sexual harassment claims went through the roof because of the big payouts of certain cases. It was so bad that women would claim sexual harassment just for being around them. I know this because I had a sexual harassment complaint made on me by 2 different women within a 6 month timespan while I was working at Wally world during high school, just for working behind them. They complained that I was staring at their *** (even though there was a barrier between them and me, and I was looking at the key pad or down at the scanner most of the time). I am forever banned from working at Wally world because of that, even though there was never any actual investigation made, just to keep them from having to pay a big payout by the (eventual) lawsuit that was about to happen.

Those 2 women got 10 males fired before they were "told" to stop it, even though they are both still working there to this day....
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-11 09:44:59
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
I'm laughing at all the people here so worried about false accusations... Do what you tell the victims to do... don't put yourself in the situation and you won't have to deal with it. I mean it's your fault for putting yourself in the situation right?

False accusations are a problem (I run into it from time to time through work), but the percentages are pretty low in comparison.

...frankly, with the amount of sexual abuse and rape out there, I wish more people were fabricating these stories, because thinking about the amount of rapists and sexual predators out there walking free is staggeringly upsetting.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-08-11 09:50:39
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
I'm laughing at all the people here so worried about false accusations... Do what you tell the victims to do... don't put yourself in the situation and you won't have to deal with it. I mean it's your fault for putting yourself in the situation right?

False accusations are a problem (I run into it from time to time through work), but the percentages are pretty low in comparison.

...frankly, with the amount of sexual abuse and rape out there, I wish more people were fabricating these stories, because thinking about the amount of rapists and sexual predators out there walking free is staggeringly upsetting.
my comment isn't meant to say that it isn't a problem. It's putting it on the same level others have put sexually assualting people on. Blaming the victim.
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-08-11 09:55:13
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
How is it not?

well I'm no genius, but I'd choose my phone being stolen over being raped 10 / 10 times.
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 Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-08-11 09:56:23
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You just haven't been raped by the right person
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-11 10:05:08
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Siren.Mosin said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
How is it not?

well I'm no genius, but I'd choose my phone being stolen over being raped 10 / 10 times.

You're being very concrete in your thought process.

Or you're just trying to make a sarcastic statement.

Clearly being raped is worse than having your phone stolen. If that wasn't a given, I think we need to back up and evaluate the entire thread again.

I'm speaking to the people engaging in victim blaming. It's horse ***.

Rape is never justifiable by saying "she/he put herself in the position to easily be raped", because it still requires a scumbag rapist. The same way that, yes, a phone in an unattended open vehicle is easy to steal, but it still requires a thief.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-08-11 10:06:51
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being the victim doesn't remove all blame, personal responsibility should apply to everyone

if you were blackout drunk and acting like a tool in public and your wallet got stolen, you'd expect to get called an idiot for your behavior and receive minimal sympathy(or at least i would)

my breakdown:
prosecute rapist? yes
harass victim? no
feel sorry for victim? absolutely not
consider victim worth continuing to date(if gf)? absolutely not

the legal consequences should be no different if circumstances were irresponsible on the victim's part, but that doesn't give them a free pass from social consequences
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-11 10:08:10
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Siren.Mosin said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
How is it not?

well I'm no genius, but I'd choose my phone being stolen over being raped 10 / 10 times.
I think you missed Ramyrez's point though.

Leaving your phone in an unlocked car is showing how much you don't mind that phone being stolen. An argument could be made for it being in a locked car too. But unlocked vehicle is an open invitation for theft.

Same goes for those who dress like a tramp and accepts free booze from some sleaze. The accepting part is what traps them, because they acknowledge that their time and inhibition is the sleaze's to use. Taking enough drinks to lose any sort of rational thought is also a sign of accepting the consequences.

It all has to do with personal responsibility. Plain and simple.

Now, people can argue about rape drugs, and there is nothing they can do about that, and they are absolutely correct. That's why there should be proof of such drugs being used before any rape allocations be used. That's what rape kits are there for....
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-08-11 10:09:26
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just saying you are getting a little fast & loose with your comparisons. let's not forget what we're talking about.
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-11 10:09:37
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Siren.Mosin said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
How is it not?

well I'm no genius, but I'd choose my phone being stolen over being raped 10 / 10 times.
I think you missed Ramyrez's point though.

Leaving your phone in an unlocked car is showing how much you don't mind that phone being stolen. An argument could be made for it being in a locked car too. But unlocked vehicle is an open invitation for theft.

Same goes for those who dress like a tramp and accepts free booze from some sleaze. The accepting part is what traps them, because they acknowledge that their time and inhibition is the sleaze's to use. Taking enough drinks to lose any sort of rational thought is also a sign of accepting the consequences.

It all has to do with personal responsibility. Plain and simple.

Now, people can argue about rape drugs, and there is nothing they can do about that, and they are absolutely correct. That's why there should be proof of such drugs being used before any rape allocations be used. That's what rape kits are there for....


Mmmm. Actually I think you both missed my point.

What I'm saying is that while, yes, some people do things that put themselves in a position to be more easily victimized, blaming them is not okay because it still takes a criminal to make the situation problematic.
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-08-11 10:15:52
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Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Actually I think you both missed my point

nope.

blaming an idiot for not locking his car is a pretty fair observation. blaming a woman for 'dressing like a ***' is insane.
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 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-11 10:18:12
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Siren.Mosin said: »
Bismarck.Ramyrez said: »
Actually I think you both missed my point

nope.

blaming an idiot for not locking his car is a pretty fair observation. blaming a woman for 'dressing like a ***' is insane.

You're half right.

See, you would need to lock your car...

...if people weren't thieving scum.
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