[Dev] Corsair Adjustments
[Dev] Corsair Adjustments
Several years ago I thought the same problem could be circumvented by investing my merits in Winning Streak thus reducing the frequency of roll cycles, however, especially with the new rolls and even with the #11 updates it became rather clear that making unnecessary cycles hurt damage far too much to make it worth my while. Keeping damage high and rolling consistent 11s became top priority.
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
It may sound arbitrary on the surface, but try to remember the opportunity cost involved in applying a secondary set of rolls on a single player. That's a massive amount of damage lost every roll cycle for the sake of something that hasn't been necessary thus far.
I'm not just talking about VW where everything is just proc and WS zerg, but general other uses.
You can just roll it before the fight starts then do the DD rolls, or when you're not doing dmg(double weak, holding off dmg etc). With AF2+2 hat and 3+2 hands it'd stay on for a good while.
Of course you may not "need" it, considering players already beat majority of game content without it in the past, it may not be game changing if you do it in the most optimal way, but may actually change the efficiency a bit if used wisely.
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
It may sound arbitrary on the surface, but try to remember the opportunity cost involved in applying a secondary set of rolls on a single player. That's a massive amount of damage lost every roll cycle for the sake of something that hasn't been necessary thus far.
I'm not just talking about VW where everything is just proc and WS zerg, but general other uses.
Like what?
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
It may sound arbitrary on the surface, but try to remember the opportunity cost involved in applying a secondary set of rolls on a single player. That's a massive amount of damage lost every roll cycle for the sake of something that hasn't been necessary thus far.
I'm not just talking about VW where everything is just proc and WS zerg, but general other uses.
Like what?
Hmm maybe kiting PW adds? XD Low manning JOL? XDDDD Lowman DM BC fight without having a pimp PLD? XDDDD I know it's not needed though.
Or maybe just holding an NM for w/e reason.
Also considering I can't reach cure potency cap on BLU, healers roll may be nice if I'm holding an NM on BLU or something.
PW and JoL are extremely easy now. I solo'd two forms of PW(with adds) on PLD while weakened, and JoL's pets explode when you touch them.
Get over it Minjo.
***is situational- not everyone has 24/7 access to 'pimp tanks' and some smaller shells like low manning their own things, so stuff like this can actually be nice.
Please stop calling things 100% useless when your "Ideal setups" make these pointless, because stuff like this is usually ment to help benefit people that DON'T cap out everything or go in with 90 empys and aegis/ochain plds and crap like that.
Not everyone spends a couple week grinding 90 empys for the main reason that it gets boring real fast.
***is situational- not everyone has 24/7 access to 'pimp tanks' and some smaller shells like low manning their own things, so stuff like this can actually be nice.
Please stop calling things 100% useless when your "Ideal setups" make these pointless, because stuff like this is usually ment to help benefit people that DON'T cap out everything or go in with 90 empys and aegis/ochain plds and crap like that.
Not everyone spends a couple week grinding 90 empys for the main reason that it gets boring real fast.
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These rolls have only a place for soloing or circumscribed lowmanning of some kind where they could have a meaning.
The VW tank can have an awesome defense? Who cares, if he could tank before he'll be fine now, the cor has no reason to move from the dds.
Healer's roll is as useless as before, maybe even more.
The VW tank can have an awesome defense? Who cares, if he could tank before he'll be fine now, the cor has no reason to move from the dds.
Healer's roll is as useless as before, maybe even more.
There are players that do things just for fun, and not because it's the best thing to do.
Someone will use it and like the update, the rest who just want what they want will have to wait for SE to advance the job forward.
Someone will use it and like the update, the rest who just want what they want will have to wait for SE to advance the job forward.
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Quetzalcoatl.Pyroelf said: »
Get over it Minjo.
***is situational- not everyone has 24/7 access to 'pimp tanks' and some smaller shells like low manning their own things, so stuff like this can actually be nice.
Please stop calling things 100% useless when your "Ideal setups" make these pointless, because stuff like this is usually ment to help benefit people that DON'T cap out everything or go in with 90 empys and aegis/ochain plds and crap like that.
Not everyone spends a couple week grinding 90 empys for the main reason that it gets boring real fast.
***is situational- not everyone has 24/7 access to 'pimp tanks' and some smaller shells like low manning their own things, so stuff like this can actually be nice.
Please stop calling things 100% useless when your "Ideal setups" make these pointless, because stuff like this is usually ment to help benefit people that DON'T cap out everything or go in with 90 empys and aegis/ochain plds and crap like that.
Not everyone spends a couple week grinding 90 empys for the main reason that it gets boring real fast.
Half a thread worth of people calling these rolls useless, and you decide to single me out? Neat.
They are niche beyond reason. Situational is far from an appropriate designation, regardless of whether your parties are acceptably geared or not.
Instead of freaking the hell out, how about you present a situation where they would be useful, and I'll do my best to show why they're still not optimal?
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Pyroelf said: »
Get over it Minjo.
***is situational- not everyone has 24/7 access to 'pimp tanks' and some smaller shells like low manning their own things, so stuff like this can actually be nice.
Please stop calling things 100% useless when your "Ideal setups" make these pointless, because stuff like this is usually ment to help benefit people that DON'T cap out everything or go in with 90 empys and aegis/ochain plds and crap like that.
Not everyone spends a couple week grinding 90 empys for the main reason that it gets boring real fast.
***is situational- not everyone has 24/7 access to 'pimp tanks' and some smaller shells like low manning their own things, so stuff like this can actually be nice.
Please stop calling things 100% useless when your "Ideal setups" make these pointless, because stuff like this is usually ment to help benefit people that DON'T cap out everything or go in with 90 empys and aegis/ochain plds and crap like that.
Not everyone spends a couple week grinding 90 empys for the main reason that it gets boring real fast.
Half a thread worth of people calling these rolls useless, and you decide to single me out? Neat.
They are niche beyond reason. Situational is far from an appropriate designation, regardless of whether your parties are acceptably geared or not.
Instead of freaking the hell out, how about you present a situation where they would be useful, and I'll do my best to show why they're still not optimal?
If you look around there are these so-called "noobs" who might need a bit of extra help from a COR using the new PLD roll or what have you.
At least SE is trying to update things to our liking. I mean c'mon, what would you rather have, crap *** spikes or -DT? More M.acc, more pet attack, more regen, etc. or the prior? >.>
I'm not disagreeing that in most situations you won't have a use for them, but in some you will, and I'll take that.
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I couldn't even begin to debate either of you. My cheek is about to rupture from the excess of words you've put in my mouth.
And just as a reminder, eight other people in this thread offered sentiments to the effect of these rolls being useless, and there are upwards of 15 'likes' in regard to their posts. My irrational hatred bandwagon is that much more amusing when it's so easily identified like this.
And just as a reminder, eight other people in this thread offered sentiments to the effect of these rolls being useless, and there are upwards of 15 'likes' in regard to their posts. My irrational hatred bandwagon is that much more amusing when it's so easily identified like this.
What does it even matter.
Someone will enjoy it, who cares if people don't like it.
If you don't like it don't use it, not every update benefits you.
Someone will enjoy it, who cares if people don't like it.
If you don't like it don't use it, not every update benefits you.
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Hurray! PLD roll that finally rocks!
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sweet~ someone can make a situational gearset for when gallants roll is on so the tank can throw on some DD gear
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Phoenix.Zekky said: »
Hurray! PLD roll that finally rocks!
volkom said: »
sweet~ someone can make a situational gearset for when gallants roll is on so the tank can throw on some DD gear
Based on the description, it's very likely a phalanx effect, so it's unlikely to change anyone's equipment choices. Regardless, PLD loses very little by capping haste and optimizing accuracy and attack, so wearing DD gear isn't particularly troublesome as is.
As far as its viability, it's nearly impossible to reliably maintain anything's attention against DD while I myself am in full DD gear, so even a substantial decrease in damage taken(which is a minor issue in practice, given the availability of temp. items) wouldn't benefit a tank more than Miser's or Tactiction's Roll.
always a buzz kill =/
Perhaps I'm in a minority, but I'm really not bothered in the grand scheme of things. Granted, I'd rather the dev. team spent their time doing more useful things than rolls like this, but COR itself has taken a drastic turn for the better. Miser's/Tactition's Roll really took a job that was superfluous at best and made it extremely potent compliment to BRD.
Overall, I'm still very happy with the job.
Overall, I'm still very happy with the job.
While I agree that most of these rolls are super situational at best (don't want to say useless because I'm sure someone will think of some form of a "use" for something on this list, eventually), how is "optimal" not having cors in your tank party (in reference to cors not being in the same party as your whms, regardless of the fact that they're not going to be giving your whms rolls 90% of the time) when your tanks are going to need chaos+misers+minuets (or min/march) to keep hate from DD's? With the exception of unbeleivably geared wars and mnks (and now drks with 5/5 merit ws), properly buffed you should still be perfectly capable of keeping a mobs attention a high percentage of the time. If you're zerging something (most of the new VW tiers), you won't even have a pld there "optimally".
something about hate caps
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I'd greatly prefer to always have multiple COR, but between raw availability and minding proc needs, that's not always realistic. Given the choice between a COR in the DD/proc party and a COR in the tank party, I'd never take one for myself. CDC caps me quickly enough that the fights turn into a game of who-smacked-last before rolls on a tank would become mandatory.
I'm available. Raw.
*flags up*
(pirate flag)
*flags up*
(pirate flag)
Come to Fenrir then. Niniann would probably take your pirateness on board her ship.
Ewwww Fenrir!!
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Fenrir.Minjo said: »
Every single one of these rolls is entirely useless.
I'd say these Rolls tend to have infrequent utility, yes ... but it's erroneous to say they're entirely useless.
Drachen Roll is pretty awesome when using a Summoner party to fight a NM.
While that's potentially true, I'd say you're more likely to find a spare SMN than a spare COR, and an additional SMN will be a larger net gain than boosting even five SMN with a perfect roll.
Still don't see the situations where you'd drop Misers or Tacticians or even Chaos for these new rolls.
First off we have the situation of healers often being mixed in with the DD. Unlike the days of old where positioning meant something, most mages are standing nearby or close to their DD to use specific abilities like Misery or deploying avatar buffs and having to probe someone to move to deploy buffs is a fools errand.
This makes deploying the new Healer's Roll extremely niche to the point of being nigh worthless in today's sphere of play.
Gallant's Roll has some practical application when paired with Miser's for a defensive build but again this seems extremely niche in FFXIs 99 environment where things either are so far below you in level you don't need the defenses or you're doing 99 content where Phalanx isn't going to save you or even mean ***in the grand scheme of things.
Voidwatch? Better have Fanatics on or you're getting smoked.
WoE? DD here are paper to be shred through.
Dynamis? Solid offenses are your best defense.
Pet Rolls have always been niche due to sacrificing player buffs for a pet, warlock's macc increases are a joke given most mobs are either immune to a debuff or don't need the MACC buff to land a debuff. Being lvl99 with skills somewhere in the ballpark is usually enough to enfeeble damn near anything.
Choral Roll? Dancer's Roll? Would see use if COR had a 3rd roll slot to expend on those extremely situational tools.
Really I like COR but these adjustments aren't potent unless we're actually getting that 3rd roll slot which hasn't been talked about since the manifesto.
First off we have the situation of healers often being mixed in with the DD. Unlike the days of old where positioning meant something, most mages are standing nearby or close to their DD to use specific abilities like Misery or deploying avatar buffs and having to probe someone to move to deploy buffs is a fools errand.
This makes deploying the new Healer's Roll extremely niche to the point of being nigh worthless in today's sphere of play.
Gallant's Roll has some practical application when paired with Miser's for a defensive build but again this seems extremely niche in FFXIs 99 environment where things either are so far below you in level you don't need the defenses or you're doing 99 content where Phalanx isn't going to save you or even mean ***in the grand scheme of things.
Voidwatch? Better have Fanatics on or you're getting smoked.
WoE? DD here are paper to be shred through.
Dynamis? Solid offenses are your best defense.
Pet Rolls have always been niche due to sacrificing player buffs for a pet, warlock's macc increases are a joke given most mobs are either immune to a debuff or don't need the MACC buff to land a debuff. Being lvl99 with skills somewhere in the ballpark is usually enough to enfeeble damn near anything.
Choral Roll? Dancer's Roll? Would see use if COR had a 3rd roll slot to expend on those extremely situational tools.
Really I like COR but these adjustments aren't potent unless we're actually getting that 3rd roll slot which hasn't been talked about since the manifesto.
From official forum reps:
Quote:
The damage reduction from Gallant's Roll is not a percentage, the reduction value is the number itself. (Maximum 30 damage)
In case you didn't know, you can stack this with Phalanx making it possible to increase the amount of damage reduced.
In regards to those of you asking about a third roll, we haven't solidified a specific adjustment timing so I don't have any new information for you guys at the moment. But when I do, you bet I'll be giving you guys an update!
In case you didn't know, you can stack this with Phalanx making it possible to increase the amount of damage reduced.
In regards to those of you asking about a third roll, we haven't solidified a specific adjustment timing so I don't have any new information for you guys at the moment. But when I do, you bet I'll be giving you guys an update!
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