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[Dev] Corsair Adjustments
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-03 14:36:15
| 01-03-2012 02:28 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| Howdy!
It’s been quite some time since we announced that we would be revamping corsair’s Phantom Roll effects, but I have some additional information about the planned changes.
※Currently these features are in-development and testing and are subject to change.
As long as there are no major development/testing problems, we are planning to introduce these changes on the test server middle or late January.
As usual, please let us know your feedback! | |
| 01-05-2012 02:06 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep |  |
| Odin.Mirabelle said: One question about the new Gallant's roll. Are the values a flat amount of -DT (like phalanx) or a percentage (like -DT gear)?
In case you didn't know, you can stack this with Phalanx making it possible to increase the amount of damage reduced.
In regards to those of you asking about a third roll, we haven't solidified a specific adjustment timing so I don't have any new information for you guys at the moment. But when I do, you bet I'll be giving you guys an update! | |
| 01-11-2012 05:54 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| Greetings all 
I have some additional info on corsair adjustments based on some questions from the Japanese forum to share with you all.
Quote: Though Drachen Roll gives magic attack bonus to pets, this does not affect wyvern’s attack breath, and in the case of battles that are dependent on a pet’s magic attack, a dragoon will not be in the party for the bonus.
[Pre-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
[Post-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Quote: Would it be possible to edit the effect of Blitzer’s Roll?
Currently, if you cast Blitzer’s Roll, the amount of TP gained is reduced and if attackers use store TP it’s not really possible to get the full benefit. Could you edit this so that the effect does not affect TP gain and reduces attack delay like Haste and March?
Quote: Can you make it possible to cast rolls on a single party member? It could have a 15 second recast and no Double-up possibility. If we had this, it would make it possible to use all of the hard to use pet rolls, etc. It would also be possible to put the new Gallant’s Roll on the tank only.
Corsairs have the ability to support party members with their rolls similar to bards; however, while bards spend most of their time during battle supporting party members with songs, corsairs don’t spend the same amount of time on support and were made to have a surplus of time so they can attack. This is why the effect duration and recast time on rolls have been set to be longer than songs.
While it is definitely possible to look into single target effects in order to effectively use rolls, the functionality of corsair would most likely be largely changed due to the increased frequency of roll usage, so we would like to continue to look into this while carefully considering whether it is really appropriate for the corsair style that we envisioned.
Quote: The enhanced cure potency for cures received is good with waltzes too, right?
While they are similar effects, the stats are separate and this is the roll for white mages. | |
| 01-18-2012 04:39 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| Dearest corsairs,
Just wanted to deliver some feedback that was being discussed on the Japanese forums in regards to Quick Draw and Rolls.
Quote: Personally, I would like to focus on Phantom Roll + Quick Draw + Weapon Skills.
(With the current system for Phantom Roll)
What is currently severely lacking is the number of charges for Quick Draw.
I would like this adjusted so that it would be possible to pull off something like the following rotation: Roll→2 Draws → Roll → 2 Draws…→Weapon Skill → Roll…
As such, I would like the number of charges for Quick Draw to be increased to about 6.
Since Quick Draw is an ability, it can be used quickly and there is not much down time, which means that it is more convenient than ranged attacks and it is possible to deal as much damage as a weapon skill, based on how it is used. If the number of charges is simply increased, corsairs would have more attacking power than rangers.
If we do end up increasing the number of charges, we would have to nerf its effects to maintain balance. Whether or not it would be worth nerfing the effects to increase the number of charges is an issue that we are investigating with the help of your feedback.
In addition, we plan on adding enfeebling effects to Quick Draw in the enfeebling spell adjustments we have planned, so please look forward to these changes as well. | |
| 01-19-2012 03:30 AM | | Gildrein | | Community Rep |  |
| [dev1069] Corsair Job Adjustments
*This content is currently in development and may differ in the release version.
| |
| 02-02-2012 04:30 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| As a result of the development team’s investigation as well as feedback we received, we will be once again changing the effect of Gallant’s Roll from “damage reduction” to “increased defense.”
This roll’s defense increase effect will increase a character’s defense by a percentage, so characters with already high defense will benefit largely from this.
As a different idea we looked into “physical damage reduction,” but the effect itself increased by a percentage, which made it not possible to make the effect values very large thus creating the concern that the roll itself wouldn’t be too useful. Paladin’s who have a wealth of damage reduction gear would cap out too easily and attackers/back-line jobs would become disproportionate by having this along with other high defense stats, so we determined this to be an unrealistic route. | |
| 02-08-2012 05:55 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| There have been some comments from players mentioning that they don’t see the point of defense as a stat, so I’d like to go into some detail on it.
As defense increases over an enemy’s attack power, the amount of damage reduced gradually tapers off. If the enemy you are fighting is lower level and your defense is way higher, it becomes more difficult to gain large benefits even if you increase your defense.
In instances where your defense is reduced via an enemy action, where your character’s defense would normally be higher than an enemy’s attack power, and the gap between the two is narrowed, the amount of damage being reduced will start to vary largely. This shows that you’ll take more damage when your defense is lowered, giving meaning to the value of your defense.
Another easy way of feeling the effects of defense is to face off against an even match enemy and compare the damage received with your armor equipped and off.
Since the effects of defense increase as defense is stacked, the benefits are by no means small, so it would be really helpful if we could receive feedback with this in mind.
For reference, Mocchi provided some test data.
Setup
Naked/with Defender active/with Defender active + food effects (black curry bun)
Results
Naked (Defense 460): 245 damage
Defender (Defense 575): 216 damage
Defender + food (Defense 663): 197 damage
Depending on the situation, the numbers may not be the same, but this is simply intended to serve as reference. | |
As you might notice I now have a subscribe button on my new template. It is an RSS Feed of the updates posted on this site. Enjoy <3
[+]
 Sylph.Knala
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 678
By Sylph.Knala 2012-01-03 14:45:12
is there something wrong with the dev tracker on the official site? i didnt see the drg or the cor posts there, still got the holiday posts from the community reps on the top.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 294
By Sylph.Agentblade 2012-01-03 14:45:59
Thanks Kalilla! Finally a use for Gallant's Roll. Too bad Cor's will be put in tanking parties in VW now.
[+]
 Phoenix.Sehachan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-01-03 14:46:37
Thanks Kalilla! Finally a use for Gallant's Roll. Too bad Cor's will be put in tanking parties in VW now. *** that. Tanks could tank before and will tank now as well. I'm staying with the DDs.
 Lakshmi.Phaffi
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 298
By Lakshmi.Phaffi 2012-01-03 14:46:43
Too bad we'll still want Miser's and Tactician's.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9553
By Bismarck.Moonlightespada 2012-01-03 14:47:45
looks prommising, plus the changes to galliants might add more options for soloing
[+]
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-01-03 14:55:04
is there something wrong with the dev tracker on the official site? i didnt see the drg or the cor posts there, still got the holiday posts from the community reps on the top. The dev tracker on the front page updates much slower.
By Drjones 2012-01-03 15:00:38
The change to Healer's Roll seems a bit unwarranted. It was at least useful back in the six man parties of yore, but in today's FFXI your healer's are gonna be pretty much at capped cure potency, and if I'm reading that correctly it would mean your DDs having to give up a roll if you wanted it to actually do anything.
It just feels like they changed it from being a niche roll to being an utterly useless roll. :(
Fenrir.Minjo
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-01-03 15:06:49
Every single one of these rolls is entirely useless.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3012
By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-01-03 15:10:08
I'm assuming the Bonus part is having said job of roll in your Party?
Fenrir.Minjo
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-01-03 15:10:40
[+]
 Asura.Fondue
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2445
By Asura.Fondue 2012-01-03 15:11:35
Every single one of these rolls is entirely useless.
qd kiting despot around the lake!
 Cerberus.Cahlum
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 268
By Cerberus.Cahlum 2012-01-03 15:12:22
The change to Healer's Roll seems a bit unwarranted. It was at least useful back in the six man parties of yore, but in today's FFXI your healer's are gonna be pretty much at capped cure potency, and if I'm reading that correctly it would mean your DDs having to give up a roll if you wanted it to actually do anything.
It just feels like they changed it from being a niche roll to being an utterly useless roll. :( COR can keep 4 rolls up at once easily I thought?
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 294
By Sylph.Agentblade 2012-01-03 15:26:32
The change to Healer's Roll seems a bit unwarranted. It was at least useful back in the six man parties of yore, but in today's FFXI your healer's are gonna be pretty much at capped cure potency, and if I'm reading that correctly it would mean your DDs having to give up a roll if you wanted it to actually do anything.
It just feels like they changed it from being a niche roll to being an utterly useless roll. :( COR can keep 4 rolls up at once easily I thought? A Good Cor Can
[+]
Bismarck.Snprphnx
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2692
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2012-01-03 15:28:33
The change to Healer's Roll seems a bit unwarranted. It was at least useful back in the six man parties of yore, but in today's FFXI your healer's are gonna be pretty much at capped cure potency, and if I'm reading that correctly it would mean your DDs having to give up a roll if you wanted it to actually do anything.
It just feels like they changed it from being a niche roll to being an utterly useless roll. :( COR can keep 4 rolls up at once easily I thought?
especially with AF3+2 hands, full winning streak merits, and af2+1 hat. i think that puts roll duration at 7min 50 secs
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 8022
By Shiva.Viciousss 2012-01-03 15:33:27
they can do whatever they want with phantom roll cor is staying on the shelf.
Fenrir.Minjo
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-01-03 15:34:43
That involves taking time away from dealing damage to do something that's anywhere from largely unhelpful to flat out detrimental. It also involves a COR being in the same party as healers, which is silly in and of itself.
By Drjones 2012-01-03 15:36:36
The change to Healer's Roll seems a bit unwarranted. It was at least useful back in the six man parties of yore, but in today's FFXI your healer's are gonna be pretty much at capped cure potency, and if I'm reading that correctly it would mean your DDs having to give up a roll if you wanted it to actually do anything.
It just feels like they changed it from being a niche roll to being an utterly useless roll. :( COR can keep 4 rolls up at once easily I thought? I'm not sure how that's at all relevant.
The text reads as though it grants potency to cures received rather than to cures distributed. The issue is that the Healer's Roll needs to be applied to the DDs rather than to the healer.
I really hope I'm interpreting that incorrectly.
Phoenix.Sehachan
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-01-03 15:37:47
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »The change to Healer's Roll seems a bit unwarranted. It was at least useful back in the six man parties of yore, but in today's FFXI your healer's are gonna be pretty much at capped cure potency, and if I'm reading that correctly it would mean your DDs having to give up a roll if you wanted it to actually do anything.
It just feels like they changed it from being a niche roll to being an utterly useless roll. :( COR can keep 4 rolls up at once easily I thought?
especially with AF3+2 hands, full winning streak merits, and af2+1 hat. i think that puts roll duration at 7min 50 secs Yes a cor is able to keep up a cycle of 4 rolls.
No, there's no need to do it anyway cause if you're in pt with the DDs(if you're not, move)you only need to do 2 anyway.
And lol Winning Steak.
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2012-01-03 15:39:05
Thanks Kalilla! Finally a use for Gallant's Roll. Too bad Cor's will be put in tanking parties in VW now. *** that. Tanks could tank before and will tank now as well. I'm staying with the DDs.
Healer/Gallant seems to be good to give it to PLD when he supertanks/kites.
Fenrir.Minjo
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-01-03 15:41:32
It may sound arbitrary on the surface, but try to remember the opportunity cost involved in applying a secondary set of rolls on a single player. That's a massive amount of damage lost every roll cycle for the sake of something that hasn't been necessary thus far.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-01-03 15:42:49
Does the "cure received bonus" break the +50 potency cap? I don't think it does. If it DOES, than it might not be completely useless.
Fenrir.Minjo
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-01-03 15:43:15
It doesn't.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-01-03 15:49:22
Meh, than its garbage lol
By Artemicion 2012-01-03 15:52:23
It'd be broken as hell, but it would be nice if there was a Pianissimo of sorts for Corsair. But really, it's only fair that it remains a bard exclusive ability. COR always has been too good of a DD to waste necessary rolls (thus DPS) to aid that which has already been relatively self-sufficient.
Perhaps a JA that allows your previous rolls to be "locked-in" so you don't miss any potential damage while aiding others? Oh wait...
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 294
By Sylph.Agentblade 2012-01-03 16:01:46
It may sound arbitrary on the surface, but try to remember the opportunity cost involved in applying a secondary set of rolls on a single player. That's a massive amount of damage lost every roll cycle for the sake of something that hasn't been necessary thus far. ^ This
Fenrir.Minjo
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-01-03 16:05:41
It'd be broken as hell, but it would be nice if there was a Pianissimo of sorts for Corsair. But really, it's only fair that it remains a bard exclusive ability. COR always has been too good of a DD to waste necessary rolls (thus DPS) to aid that which has already been relatively self-sufficient.
Perhaps a JA that allows your previous rolls to be "locked-in" so you don't miss any potential damage while aiding others? Oh wait...
A COR Tenuto would do very little to circumvent the issue I mentioned. Time spent rolling and doubling up is time spent not shooting, which in VW especially is a large chunk of damage lost every roll cycle.
By Artemicion 2012-01-03 16:11:28
Okay I'll rephrase since it seems certain phrases are sensitive here.
JA delay is rather troublesome to DPS when used in heavy succession like COR & DNC.
| 01-03-2012 02:28 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| Howdy!
It’s been quite some time since we announced that we would be revamping corsair’s Phantom Roll effects, but I have some additional information about the planned changes.
※Currently these features are in-development and testing and are subject to change.
As long as there are no major development/testing problems, we are planning to introduce these changes on the test server middle or late January.
As usual, please let us know your feedback! | |
| 01-05-2012 02:06 PM | | Rukkirii | | Community Rep | |
| Odin.Mirabelle said: One question about the new Gallant's roll. Are the values a flat amount of -DT (like phalanx) or a percentage (like -DT gear)?
In case you didn't know, you can stack this with Phalanx making it possible to increase the amount of damage reduced.
In regards to those of you asking about a third roll, we haven't solidified a specific adjustment timing so I don't have any new information for you guys at the moment. But when I do, you bet I'll be giving you guys an update! | |
| 01-11-2012 05:54 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| Greetings all
I have some additional info on corsair adjustments based on some questions from the Japanese forum to share with you all.
Quote: Though Drachen Roll gives magic attack bonus to pets, this does not affect wyvern’s attack breath, and in the case of battles that are dependent on a pet’s magic attack, a dragoon will not be in the party for the bonus.
[Pre-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
[Post-adjustment]
Drachen Roll: Enhances pet accuracy
Puppet Roll: Enhances pet magic attack and magic accuracy
Quote: Would it be possible to edit the effect of Blitzer’s Roll?
Currently, if you cast Blitzer’s Roll, the amount of TP gained is reduced and if attackers use store TP it’s not really possible to get the full benefit. Could you edit this so that the effect does not affect TP gain and reduces attack delay like Haste and March?
Quote: Can you make it possible to cast rolls on a single party member? It could have a 15 second recast and no Double-up possibility. If we had this, it would make it possible to use all of the hard to use pet rolls, etc. It would also be possible to put the new Gallant’s Roll on the tank only.
Corsairs have the ability to support party members with their rolls similar to bards; however, while bards spend most of their time during battle supporting party members with songs, corsairs don’t spend the same amount of time on support and were made to have a surplus of time so they can attack. This is why the effect duration and recast time on rolls have been set to be longer than songs.
While it is definitely possible to look into single target effects in order to effectively use rolls, the functionality of corsair would most likely be largely changed due to the increased frequency of roll usage, so we would like to continue to look into this while carefully considering whether it is really appropriate for the corsair style that we envisioned.
Quote: The enhanced cure potency for cures received is good with waltzes too, right?
While they are similar effects, the stats are separate and this is the roll for white mages. | |
| 01-18-2012 04:39 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| Dearest corsairs,
Just wanted to deliver some feedback that was being discussed on the Japanese forums in regards to Quick Draw and Rolls.
Quote: Personally, I would like to focus on Phantom Roll + Quick Draw + Weapon Skills.
(With the current system for Phantom Roll)
What is currently severely lacking is the number of charges for Quick Draw.
I would like this adjusted so that it would be possible to pull off something like the following rotation: Roll→2 Draws → Roll → 2 Draws…→Weapon Skill → Roll…
As such, I would like the number of charges for Quick Draw to be increased to about 6.
Since Quick Draw is an ability, it can be used quickly and there is not much down time, which means that it is more convenient than ranged attacks and it is possible to deal as much damage as a weapon skill, based on how it is used. If the number of charges is simply increased, corsairs would have more attacking power than rangers.
If we do end up increasing the number of charges, we would have to nerf its effects to maintain balance. Whether or not it would be worth nerfing the effects to increase the number of charges is an issue that we are investigating with the help of your feedback.
In addition, we plan on adding enfeebling effects to Quick Draw in the enfeebling spell adjustments we have planned, so please look forward to these changes as well. | |
| 01-19-2012 03:30 AM | | Gildrein | | Community Rep | |
| [dev1069] Corsair Job Adjustments
*This content is currently in development and may differ in the release version.
| |
| 02-02-2012 04:30 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| As a result of the development team’s investigation as well as feedback we received, we will be once again changing the effect of Gallant’s Roll from “damage reduction” to “increased defense.”
This roll’s defense increase effect will increase a character’s defense by a percentage, so characters with already high defense will benefit largely from this.
As a different idea we looked into “physical damage reduction,” but the effect itself increased by a percentage, which made it not possible to make the effect values very large thus creating the concern that the roll itself wouldn’t be too useful. Paladin’s who have a wealth of damage reduction gear would cap out too easily and attackers/back-line jobs would become disproportionate by having this along with other high defense stats, so we determined this to be an unrealistic route. | |
| 02-08-2012 05:55 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep | |
| There have been some comments from players mentioning that they don’t see the point of defense as a stat, so I’d like to go into some detail on it.
As defense increases over an enemy’s attack power, the amount of damage reduced gradually tapers off. If the enemy you are fighting is lower level and your defense is way higher, it becomes more difficult to gain large benefits even if you increase your defense.
In instances where your defense is reduced via an enemy action, where your character’s defense would normally be higher than an enemy’s attack power, and the gap between the two is narrowed, the amount of damage being reduced will start to vary largely. This shows that you’ll take more damage when your defense is lowered, giving meaning to the value of your defense.
Another easy way of feeling the effects of defense is to face off against an even match enemy and compare the damage received with your armor equipped and off.
Since the effects of defense increase as defense is stacked, the benefits are by no means small, so it would be really helpful if we could receive feedback with this in mind.
For reference, Mocchi provided some test data.
Setup
Naked/with Defender active/with Defender active + food effects (black curry bun)
Results
Naked (Defense 460): 245 damage
Defender (Defense 575): 216 damage
Defender + food (Defense 663): 197 damage
Depending on the situation, the numbers may not be the same, but this is simply intended to serve as reference. | |
As you might notice I now have a subscribe button on my new template. It is an RSS Feed of the updates posted on this site. Enjoy <3
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