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No longer Active shooter reported in San Bernadino, Calif.
 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-12-02 17:50:04
I tend to wonder if peoples' positions on gun control are a direct translation of their fight or flight instincts, in that half want to try to get someone else's help in conflict resolution and the other half would rather confront it themselves.
this is a very good point, i know a lot of people that never think about needing to keep themselves safe, it's like they expect others to take care of it.
And this is why the people on the left are for gun control and the people on the right are not. The people on the left think it's the governement's job to take care of you, while the people on the right think you should take care of yourself.
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By Shiva.Eightball 2015-12-02 17:52:50
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »Our criminals certainly don't bring guns when they break in but I guess Americans can't help themselves
assuming you live in Sweden because of the flag, but again STOP comparing USA to any European county as it IS NOT even remotely the same.
Sweden is a very nice place, I've been there I loved it, go visit Detroit and then lest see how you feel.
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-12-02 17:53:54
It's not just Sweden though. Like I have said.
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2015-12-02 17:54:09
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Asura.Floppyseconds said: »If there were mass stabbings as often as there were mass shootings and everyone carried a knife in response. Then there would just be more stabbings than before.
Pretty simple emotional logic. That people make poor choices and having access to a deadly weapon 24/7 isn't the best thing.
You're right, that's pretty simple emotional "logic."
For simplifying the argument.
If there were no guns in this world then all these random amounts of people simply going about their day. Then all these innocent bystanders simply going about their lives wouldn't be killed every damn month. As much as pro guns people are, in fact, absolutely HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE in their argumentation, you're pretty much their opposite with that comment.
If you remove guns from people, they'll use knives, forks, whatever they can to kill. If they want to kill, they'll find a way, guns or no guns. If your neighbor wants you dead, he'll kill you by any mean he can, whether you live here where guns are arguably illegal or in the middle of Texas.
You can argue that the safety around guns in the US is laughable as *** (it is), but you can hardly argue that guns kill people. That's just logic.
Obviously, it'll remove ways of people dying stupidly (like this baby girl killing herself with a gun handed by her mom or those middle schooler shooting each others over lollipops), that's where you'd be right, but to a certain degree only.
So many arguments for and against guns anyway, you wouldn't be able to discuss it in a neutral way around here. Just don't be an extreme. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-12-02 17:54:58
Hmm... still no word (on ABC) on the description of the suspects, even though they've mentioned 2 suspects have been caught (at least one dead).
By Jassik 2015-12-02 17:55:20
I tend to wonder if peoples' positions on gun control are a direct translation of their fight or flight instincts, in that half want to try to get someone else's help in conflict resolution and the other half would rather confront it themselves.
this is a very good point, i know a lot of people that never think about needing to keep themselves safe, it's like they expect others to take care of it.
And this is why the people on the left are for gun control and the people on the right are not. The people on the left think it's the governement's job to take care of you, while the people on the right think you should take care of yourself.
You don't need a gun to take care of yourself pretty much ever. In the rare situation when you might, you don't need 20 assault rifles. That's what moderates think.
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By Shiva.Eightball 2015-12-02 17:56:23
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Asura.Floppyseconds said: »If there were mass stabbings as often as there were mass shootings and everyone carried a knife in response. Then there would just be more stabbings than before.
Pretty simple emotional logic. That people make poor choices and having access to a deadly weapon 24/7 isn't the best thing.
You're right, that's pretty simple emotional "logic."
For simplifying the argument.
If there were no guns in this world then all these random amounts of people simply going about their day. Then all these innocent bystanders simply going about their lives wouldn't be killed every damn month. As much as pro guns people are, in fact, absolutely HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE in their argumentation, you're pretty much their opposite with that comment.
If you remove guns from people, they'll use knives, forks, whatever they can to kill. If they want to kill, they'll find a way, guns or no guns. If your neighbor wants you dead, he'll kill you by any mean he can, whether you live here where guns are arguably illegal or in the middle of Texas.
You can argue that the safety around guns in the US is laughable as *** (it is), but you can hardly argue that guns kill people. That's just logic.
Obviously, it'll remove ways of people dying stupidly (like this baby girl killing herself with a gun handed by her mom or those middle schooler shooting each others over lollipops), that's where you'd be right, but to a certain degree only.
So many arguments for and against guns anyway, you wouldn't be able to discuss it in a neutral way around here. Just don't be an extreme. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
very respectable way to put it. I like is guy.
Garuda.Chanti
Server: Garuda
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Posts: 12102
By Garuda.Chanti 2015-12-02 17:59:13
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Fully automatic weapons are already pretty heavily regulated compared to semiauto and otherwise non-automatic weapons. You can't legally register a fully automatic firearm manufactured after 1986(or so) and instead must find a weapon that was already registered prior to that year, as those are the only fully automatic weapons that are legally transferable.... I hate to mention this but at many gun shows you can buy a simple kit to convert "civilianized" assault rifles to full auto. A friend used to sell them.
And you don't need to register long guns in the vast majority of this country.
.... I'm curious on the motive (or any legitimate speculation) here, besides terrorizing and killing people. All we know is they targeted a particular party.
Quote: "These people came prepared to do what they did as if they were on a mission," San Bernardino Police Chief Jarrod Burguan said. "They were armed with long guns, not with handguns." Quote: “Witnesses said three men in masks and body armor stormed the crowded building and opened fire, with one shooting people in a conference room, according to reports,” Fox News reported.
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-12-02 18:02:44
Lots of people have hunting rifles in Sweden and there are a lot of guns in Europe yet we still don't have the same kind of crimes. We don't get mass shootings and gun violence is very often between criminals. We don't get the random gun violence and we don't need guns to protect ourselves. That's what we have the police for.
Mental health, prison, education, healthcare all needs to improve to lower the amount of crime. There will still be crazies but it would improve life for so many people who would turn to a life of crime otherwise.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-12-02 18:02:59
News lady is trying to get Jose's (bystander) video (from his phone) of the gun battle that stopped at least two of the suspects.
By fonewear 2015-12-02 18:04:16
Hmm... still no word (on ABC) on the description of the suspects, even though they've mentioned 2 suspects have been caught (at least one dead).
I heard they are angry Republicans upset about ISIS.
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 Odin.Slore
Server: Odin
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Posts: 1350
By Odin.Slore 2015-12-02 18:05:38
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »I tend to wonder if peoples' positions on gun control are a direct translation of their fight or flight instincts, in that half want to try to get someone else's help in conflict resolution and the other half would rather confront it themselves.
this is a very good point, i know a lot of people that never think about needing to keep themselves safe, it's like they expect others to take care of it.
And this is why the people on the left are for gun control and the people on the right are not. The people on the left think it's the governement's job to take care of you, while the people on the right think you should take care of yourself.
You don't need a gun to take care of yourself pretty much ever. In the rare situation when you might, you don't need 20 assault rifles. That's what moderates think.
Thank you for being just about the only reasonable person in this entire thread on the subject, Jassik.
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »If less people have guns then less criminals will need guns for normal crimes since they're less likely to get shot and having a gun on them would just add to their time if they're caught. And it'll make the crime easier to carry out if they know they have the advantage on you and thus pulling a gun on you means you'll do whatever they say or die. They won't just go "Oh I don't need a gun anymore" They'll go "Get on the ground and don't move or I'll make your daughter watch me blow your brains out on the *** street if you try and do anything."
This is nonsensical.
Do people just think they have random enemies coming for them all the time? Do people think that they could end up being like the Waynes with an orphaned son if we don't don't carry a gun? Do people watch too many shitty dramas on ABC?
The only threat in that deparment seems to be people getting guns who shouldn't be. Otherwise you die choking on a pretzel, in a car crash, disease, etc.
I own many guns. I carry a pistol with me almost daily, its a glock 43. Do I expect trouble, no but I am damn well going to be prepared for it. I do not expect a fire in my house but I own a fire extinguisher as well. If I was in a situation where my family or anyone was for that matter in danger and I could possibly stop it and save myself or others, you bet your *** I would.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-12-02 18:06:18
This lady is answering every question with "I don't know" or "I don't have that information." Come back at 4:45 she keeps saying. Very informative.
Forum Moderator
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-12-02 18:07:30
I hate to mention this but at many gun shows you can buy a simple kit to convert "civilianized" assault rifles to full auto. A friend used to sell them.
And you don't need to register long guns in the vast majority of this country. You can buy a lot of stuff at a gun show that you shouldn't have. No one needs a full auto Glock with a 30 round magazine but I'll be damned if you can't get the stuff to have one at a gun show.
Full auto seems like a waste of ammo to me though.
By fonewear 2015-12-02 18:08:15
But CA has strict gun laws does not compute !
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By Shiva.Eightball 2015-12-02 18:09:51
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »Lots of people have hunting rifles in Sweden and there are a lot of guns in Europe yet we still don't have the same kind of crimes. We don't get mass shootings and gun violence is very often between criminals. We don't get the random gun violence and we don't need guns to protect ourselves. That's what we have the police for.
Mental health, prison, education, healthcare all needs to improve to lower the amount of crime. There will still be crazies but it would improve life for so many people who would turn to a life of crime otherwise.
yes, there are lots of terrorist like occorances which you are categorizing as just gun violence, Europe has its fair share of terrorist like attacks.
one more thing, police cannot keep you safe all the time. you are a healthy person I'm sure, but you still occasionally get sick and your body responds to fight the sickness, the police are the same way, they can't protect you from everything that is up to you, but when somthing bad happens they are there to take over, they are not your bodyguard, you are the main element in your own safety.
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By fonewear 2015-12-02 18:10:06
This lady is answering every question with "I don't know" or "I don't have that information." Come back at 4:45 she keeps saying. Very informative.
She must work for SE !
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-12-02 18:10:12
At this point I'd rather hear more about the incident than P&R gun debate #812. Maybe if we'd discuss very specific solutions that could actually happen rather than "guns r gud" "guns r bad", it might be worth our time for once. In the meantime, what's actually going on is far more interesting.
Odin.Slore
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By Odin.Slore 2015-12-02 18:11:40
Forum Moderator
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-12-02 18:13:36
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By Odin.Strummer 2015-12-02 18:15:51
Mom just emailed me to say she's fine. She met my uncle for lunch, and he lives considerably closer to where the shooting occurred than Mom does.
She almost took Waterman Ave. home but decided to take the next main street instead. That route still got slowed down considerably, but at least she didn't get stuck on the road where it happened.
Thanks to those of you who sent well-wishes my way.
By fonewear 2015-12-02 18:18:23
I'm pretty sure it was ISIS I can't confirm is so it has to be true.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-12-02 18:19:52
I'm pretty sure it was ISIS I can't confirm is so it has to be true. Can't be ISIS, Obama said they were just the JV team.
By fonewear 2015-12-02 18:20:09
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Asura.Floppyseconds said: »If there were mass stabbings as often as there were mass shootings and everyone carried a knife in response. Then there would just be more stabbings than before.
Pretty simple emotional logic. That people make poor choices and having access to a deadly weapon 24/7 isn't the best thing.
You're right, that's pretty simple emotional "logic."
For simplifying the argument.
If there were no guns in this world then all these random amounts of people simply going about their day. Then all these innocent bystanders simply going about their lives wouldn't be killed every damn month. As much as pro guns people are, in fact, absolutely HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE in their argumentation, you're pretty much their opposite with that comment.
If you remove guns from people, they'll use knives, forks, whatever they can to kill. If they want to kill, they'll find a way, guns or no guns. If your neighbor wants you dead, he'll kill you by any mean he can, whether you live here where guns are arguably illegal or in the middle of Texas.
You can argue that the safety around guns in the US is laughable as *** (it is), but you can hardly argue that guns kill people. That's just logic.
Obviously, it'll remove ways of people dying stupidly (like this baby girl killing herself with a gun handed by her mom or those middle schooler shooting each others over lollipops), that's where you'd be right, but to a certain degree only.
So many arguments for and against guns anyway, you wouldn't be able to discuss it in a neutral way around here. Just don't be an extreme. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Can we stop with the "they will do it anyway so don't bother" arguments please? Becuase the whole world is laughing at us for being so foolish. Meanwhile they don't have demented jerkoffs shooting their loved ones at Random places.
The next time a guy with forks and knives overpowers the faculty at an elementary school and kills a bunch of children let me know.
That sounds like a challenge that I'm up for !
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By fonewear 2015-12-02 18:21:19
What if these people stabbed them then shot them just to be sure they were dead !
Not much Info yet. 1-3 shooters wearing ski masks around 20 injured. Suspects at large.
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