Kathryn Knott Case

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Kathryn Knott Case
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 Lye
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By Lye 2014-09-26 15:41:34
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Your example is flawed. The status of the patient wasn't displayed on twitter. The manor in which the injury occurred was stated and posted publicly.

In your pregnancy example, it would be the equivalent of her snapping a shot of an ultrasound saying "rape isn't always so bad"
 Lye
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By Lye 2014-09-26 15:43:04
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Or "shoulda used a condom."
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-26 15:48:46
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Lye said: »
Your example is flawed. The status of the patient wasn't displayed on twitter. The manor in which the injury occurred was stated and posted publicly.

In your pregnancy example, it would be the equivalent of her snapping a shot of an ultrasound saying "rape isn't always so bad"

Ok, we'll use your example... If there is no name on the image. what personally identifiable information is contained in that? A disgusting large number of women are raped in a given timeframe, many are never reported. It's a narrower pool of people, but it's still not identifiable information and wouldn't be a HIPAA violation.
 Lye
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By Lye 2014-09-26 15:51:47
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Except any staff member of the hospital can look at the date and know who came in and gave birth and be able to deduce the person of whom the picture was taken.

I think that's what the author of the article was trying to say.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-26 15:54:32
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Lye said: »
Except any staff member of the hospital can look at the date and know who came in and gave birth and be able to deduce the person of whom the picture was taken.

I think that's what the author of the article was trying to say.

Only because they have heightened access to information, and the very fact that anyone besides the attending medical personnel would know anything above what they could get from the photo means the institution has privacy issues, not the individual. It might be unethical, but it isn't illegal.
 Lye
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By Lye 2014-09-26 16:03:34
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No. An administrator could see who has come in. A visitor signing a sign in sheet could potentially see who came in. None of those people should know the reason for which an injury or medical issue is addressed.

I could be wrong but I'm inclined to think that she has provided that information to anyone on her feed. How they connect the dots is not the problem nor is it necessarily the responsibility of the hospital.
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 Lye
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By Lye 2014-09-26 16:05:57
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Because the hospital may have protected the specific reason for which medical attention was required.

They may have protected it. But she didn't.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-26 16:06:07
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Lye said: »
No. An administrator could see who has come in. A visitor signing a sign in sheet could potentially see who came in. None of those people should know the reason for which an injury or medical issue is addressed.

I could be wrong but I'm inclined to think that she has provided that information to anyone on her feed. How they connect the dots is not the problem nor is it necessarily the responsibility of the hospital.

You are wrong in one way and not in another. Is it a privacy violation, of course, is it a HIPAA violation, no.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-09-26 16:09:51
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Lye said: »
Because the hospital may have protected the specific reason for which medical attention was required.

They may have protected it. But she didn't.
How did they protect it?
 Lye
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By Lye 2014-09-26 16:29:18
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Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
Lye said: »
Because the hospital may have protected the specific reason for which medical attention was required.

They may have protected it. But she didn't.
How did they protect it?
This is a hypothetical scenario. Are you not paying attention?
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 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-09-27 18:21:31
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Odin.Jassik said: »
No, that's just not how it works.

Apparently a hospital director seems to think so, which sorry to say has a lot more backing of authority than you.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-27 18:31:00
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
No, that's just not how it works.

Apparently a hospital director seems to think so, which sorry to say has a lot more backing of authority than you.

If they chose to fire her, that doesn't mean she violated HIPAA. It just means they either caved to public pressure or that she violated an internal policy. That has nothing to do with authority, executives make dumb decisions just like everyone else.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-09-27 18:37:11
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Odin.Jassik said: »
If they chose to fire her, that doesn't mean she violated HIPAA. It just means they either caved to public pressure or that she violated an internal policy. That has nothing to do with authority, executives make dumb decisions just like everyone else.

I provided a link of Art Caplan, the director of Medical Ethics at NYU Langone Medical Center. Anyhow she's *** at this point.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-27 18:44:31
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
If they chose to fire her, that doesn't mean she violated HIPAA. It just means they either caved to public pressure or that she violated an internal policy. That has nothing to do with authority, executives make dumb decisions just like everyone else.

I provided a link of Art Caplan, the director of Medical Ethics at NYU Langone Medical Center. Anyhow she's *** at this point.

And a racist, and a drunk, and still not in violation of HIPAA or a convicted criminal. We'll see if you change your tune the next time someone your sympathize with is in a similar position.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-09-27 18:49:36
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Odin.Jassik said: »
still not in violation of HIPAA or a convicted criminal.

I provided a link of Art Caplan, the director of Medical Ethics at NYU Langone Medical Center.

Odin.Jassik said: »
We'll see if you change your tune the next time someone your sympathize with is in a similar position.
I won't and let me tell you why. Anyone going into a medical profession should understand that they are held to a higher level of ethics.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-27 19:27:33
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Are you really not wrapping your head around the difference between an ethics board and a government agency? Maybe you're not understanding the difference between internal or board policies and federal law?
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-27 19:35:46
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Innocent until proven rich.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-27 19:58:41
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Wasn't she arraigned and charged with aggravated assault, criminal conspiracy, simple assault and recklessly endangering another person?

How is that not grounds for termination from a hospital?
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-27 21:41:11
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Wasn't she arraigned and charged with aggravated assault, criminal conspiracy, simple assault and recklessly endangering another person?

How is that not grounds for termination from a hospital?

How is it? All people have the right to due process, simply being accused does not mean you're guilty and should never be assumed guilty by virtue of being charged.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-09-27 21:57:31
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
How is that not grounds for termination from a hospital?

Some people don't understand the importance of patient safety/privacy or medical ethics.
 
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-27 22:19:32
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I've taken an actual HIPAA class as part of my current courses, it's a big part of IT these days. I had various medical people and administrators in the class with me.

If the hospital made that determination, they have the right to do that, I've said that all along. What they shouldn't do is fire someone who hasn't violated any policies or for simply being charged with a crime.

Again, what she posted on social media is not aHIPAA violation and she has not been convicted of a crime, yet.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-09-27 22:29:27
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Again, what she posted on social media is not aHIPAA violation and she has not been convicted of a crime, yet.

You're focusing on just the possibility of a HIPAA violation. You need to understand ethics and patient privacy are foundations in the healthcare system.

There's a reason hospitals and research groups have ethic comittee/divisions. I know it may sound stupid but moral/ethics plays a huge part in any medical professional's career.
 
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-27 22:47:14
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Again, what she posted on social media is not aHIPAA violation and she has not been convicted of a crime, yet.

You're focusing on just the possibility of a HIPAA violation. You need to understand ethics and patient privacy are foundations in the healthcare system.

There's a reason hospitals and research groups have ethic comittee/divisions. I know it may sound stupid but moral/ethics plays a huge part in any medical professional's career.

You're the one who keeps trying to claim she violated HIPAA...

I agree that some professions should be held to a higher standard, I've said that many many times. What I don't agree with is any committee dismissing an employee without substantiating any violations and allowing them to rebut the accusations or for being charged with a crime that hasn't been substantiated. Plenty of people are erroneously charged with crimes every day in America, should they all lose their jobs?
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-09-27 22:49:59
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Fenrir.Candlejack said: »
Does it matter that I trashtalk Jassik to his face while he's trying to recovery in dignity?

This is something else I forgot to mention. Patient dignity is very important. E.g. If someone comes in for genital wart removal- if anyone is found to make fun of that patient that's a big deal.

Odin.Jassik said: »
You're the one who keeps trying to claim she violated HIPAA...
Ugh...I think it's pretty obvious my major argument has been ethics/morals. I've been repeating the terms ethics and morals countless times in this thread.

Odin.Jassik said: »
What I don't agree with is any committee dismissing an employee without substantiating any violations and allowing them to rebut the accusations or for being charged with a crime that hasn't been substantiated. Plenty of people are erroneously charged with crimes every day in America, should they all lose their jobs?
They really don't need to substantiate violations in this case. It's very clear her actions show a complete lack of higher ethic.
 
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-28 00:39:27
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Plenty of people are erroneously charged with crimes every day in America, should they all lose their jobs?
If it was something the police were still investigating, perhaps, but after an arrest is made it's no longer the case. It's not like she was arrested at the scene or shortly after or even a case of mistaken identity. There was an investigation going on for almost 2 weeks, a dozen suspects narrowed down to 3, and then a warrant issued after a judge looked at the evidence gathered.

I would be surprised if this goes past a grand jury. Usually at this stage a grand jury would be used if the defense and prosecutor can not reach an agreement. There is no innocent until proven guilty here. The judge already found her guilty and signed off on an arrest warrant. Now it's just a matter of how guilty she is and to what extent.

Defense attorney is saying she was there but didn't engage in any actual physical assault or to quote him:
Quote:
"We don't deny that there was a gentleman who was assaulted. We don't deny that this gentleman was injured. But I unequivocally deny that my client did anything to hurt this man; she wouldn't hurt anybody."
So minimum the defense is admitting criminal conspiracy and is only looking to fight the assault charges.


Would you want a bank teller who was investigated by detectives and arrested for theft who then had to put up $50,000 bail with no 10%, but not yet been to court for sentencing, still working at your bank?

This is no different, except for the fact it involves assault and a hospital rather than a bank and money. That and her father is the county police chief, so no bail that I can see. That's about all he could do in light of the evidence presented to a judge for her arrest.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-28 00:51:57
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Wasn't she arraigned and charged with aggravated assault, criminal conspiracy, simple assault and recklessly endangering another person?

How is that not grounds for termination from a hospital?

How is it? All people have the right to due process, simply being accused does not mean you're guilty and should never be assumed guilty by virtue of being charged.
This isn't some traffic ticket. When an investigation is done after a crime has been committed a judge has to issue an arrest warrant after sufficient evidence is presented.

See above post.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2014-09-28 01:15:31
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Interestingly the Advocate, a LGBT magazine, published this yesterday.

Finding Sympathy for the Most Hated Woman in America

Quote:
Three people were arrested this week for attacking a male couple in Philadelphia, but it’s the lone female suspect being burned at the stake.

Nazi. ***. Scum. Kathryn Knott is all of those, according to non-anonymous Facebook commenters, reacting to the 24-year-old’s alleged involvement in the bashing of a gay couple in Philadelphia that sent one of the victims to the hospital and left him with 24 stitches in his face. Knott wasn’t alone in the beating; there were two men arrested, like her, for their participation, and they were part of a larger mob of as many as 15 people. But you almost wouldn’t know that from the media, especially the gay blogosphere, which is focusing its gaze on this modern-day Anita Bryant.

Knott certainly has all the credentials needed for her new position as most hated woman in gay America — her title until Michele Bachmann verbally vomits again — with her vile Twitter account. She expresses awful sentiments not worth repeating, but take my word that they’re vulgar, xenophobic, racist, and, yes, homophobic. It’s also her relationship to her father, a police chief in Bucks County, Pa., that feeds the scorn. On that same dreadful Twitter feed, Knott brags how her powerful daddy punishes her enemies and treats her like the princess of her suburban kingdom. She comes off entitled, privileged, and none too bright (speaking of less-than-smart moves, the emergency room tech was just fired after tweeting out patients’ private medical history).

All of that is enough to make her an anti-star on Towleroad and JoeMyGod, but there’s more at play. The unspoken feeling that Knott has betrayed us, gay men, is evident. Her actions feel more egregious than those of her two hateful, privileged male friends, since most of us expect that, if we’re heckled or bashed, it will be by straight men (or men who pretend to be straight), not women. For the most part, women didn’t push us into lockers. They didn’t tie Matthew Shepard to a fence. Women may not always be gay men’s allies, but they’re rarely our enemies. It’s sexist to think that women are nurturing, not nihilistic, but we still do tend to believe that. Unfairly or not, she’s being held to a higher standard.

Knott’s repellent behavior stings because women are supposed to know what it’s like to be oppressed. Women typically face an uphill battle in a misogynistic world that demands clearly defined gender roles. She comes off like a traitor, siding with the patriarchal society that says gay men are disgusting and deserving of violence. Most gay men love the women in our lives; how dare she not love us back?

This is a reminder that people in other oppressed groups (in this case, women) who hate other social minorities (gay men) don't necessarily comprehend or care that we’re all fighting similar battles — or that we’re even in one. Knott’s actions and messages make it clear that she doesn’t understand the deficits she faces as a woman. Even if she is pretty, young, blond, and the daughter of a police chief, those assets and connections may have helped her in the past, but they’re doing her no favors now. There’s nothing the public likes more than to bring a perceived spoiled brat — someone seemingly handed everything her whole life — down to earth. Seeing the mighty fall is a blood sport enjoyed by everyone, regardless of orientation.

But back to that cop dad. While his daughter loses her job, her reputation, and, perhaps, her freedom, Karl Knott gets off mostly scot-free. Let’s remember that hate is learned, not inherited. It’s pretty clear that Kathryn Knott was raised to think she’s better than people who speak Spanish, have dark skin, or fall in love with someone of the same sex. If Karl Knott raises a bigot for a daughter, what are the policies he enforces in Chalfont Borough, Pa.? Karl Knott is the kind of person who makes you realize why so many minorities have no faith in the police to protect and serve fairly.

When Kathryn Knott’s Twitter feed was discovered to still be live (face-palm), I had the urge to send her a message. I would never call her the names others have, but I wanted her to understand that the way she’s going through life, as evidenced in her feed, is wrong. Before I could articulate a missive, I stopped and realized how dumb and hubris-filled it was to think that this 24-year-old was going to do a 180, and suddenly devote herself to LGBT equality, subscribe to Ms., or volunteer at the ACLU simply because I told her to. Knott is probably too far gone at this point, and if not, too angry, scared, and confused to think clearly. But I do hope she can grow from this and understand why the world is so livid with her. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still fuming at her actions and entitlement. But she’s a victim too; of bad parenting, segregation, misinformation, and misogyny. After this public lashing, maybe that will finally sink in.
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