October Job Adjustments |
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October Job Adjustments
Carbuncle.Residentevilman said: » I don't know if it's been asked already. But would Daken give throwing skill ups? Would be amazing, could finally cap throwing skill lol. I don't think Counter gives skill ups, so I would think it works in the same manner. kithaofcerb said: » Carbuncle.Residentevilman said: » I don't know if it's been asked already. But would Daken give throwing skill ups? Would be amazing, could finally cap throwing skill lol. I don't think Counter gives skill ups, so I would think it works in the same manner. Counter does, but this skill is more like Kick Attacks, which afaik, also gives skillups. Why you even want to skill up the hard way?, just put on a mage job and go aoe shits in abys to cap sparks in 1-2hrs. you'll get more skill up per hour this way.
Are they gonna add sparks shurikens or something ?
Cerberus.Anjisnu said: » Are they gonna add sparks shurikens or something ? Bestas bane or bust! Chriscoffey said: » Dark knight with a scythe is way in the back of damage. The Apocalypse used to be a zerg type weapon that could generate with buffs around 20-25k in 30 seconds. Samurai can now do that with 1 weapon skill but if you mention wanting a past haste cap boost to Apocalypse people lose their minds. I know the math behind drk getting it but show me the math behind how broken samurai is w/ Koga/Tsuru (fudo) and their skill chain boost. Dark used to be a zerg job and then they allowed everyone to zerg and reach cap haste. It lost it's ability to do what it was intended to do. They gave them resolution for awhile which put them on the top but that still never fixed the scythe problem. SE said they wanted darks to use more scythe yet just went in a total different direction with resolution GS. This right here. I would love to see Apocalypse, even though it hasn't been a damage weapon for years, put out a good amount of dps. If Apocalypse could out damage while also keeping DRK very durable, that would be OP, but I think there needs to be more merit to making one of the most badass weapons in the game Only thing they would have to do to make Apoc useful as a DD tool is to make entropy str based and give it an attack buff.
Creaucent Alazrin said: » Only thing they would have to do to make Apoc useful as a DD tool is to make entropy str based and give it an attack buff. Even just STR based would make it significantly stronger, if it kept the same attack penalty that lots(all?) of the merits WSs have it would be slightly more competitive. The Catastrophe change to 40% STR is a good start, but probably still not enough. Edit: This didn't make a whole lot of sense, I mean that lifting the attack penalty wouldn't be as important to me as changing the modifier to STR kithaofcerb said: » Creaucent Alazrin said: » Only thing they would have to do to make Apoc useful as a DD tool is to make entropy str based and give it an attack buff. Even just STR based would make it significantly stronger, if it kept the same attack penalty that lots(all?) of the merits WSs have it would be slightly more competitive. The Catastrophe change to 40% STR is a good start, but probably still not enough. Edit: This didn't make a whole lot of sense, I mean that lifting the attack penalty wouldn't be as important to me as changing the modifier to STR Requiescat is a MND mod, you know how strong that would be WITHOUT an attack penalty?! Removing the attack deficit on a WS is a HUGE gain on high end content with high Defence. This is why attack stats on Fudo are so valued as they add a great deal of damage to it. Personally, in current content I would say Attack > than a STR mod, should have a bigger impact. I don't think entropy has an atk penalty. For Merit ws I think it was just Requiescat, Resolution, and blade shun with atk-.
When you have a STR mod, you get a fair bit more atk as a side effect of stacking STR. Although, I suppose that line of thought is mitigated a lot by general ilvl stat vomit. But still, gear with high str and atk is fairly common, whereas gear with mnd(or int in entropy's case) and atk+ is rather elusive. Although I can't speak for DRK specifically, in this case. As for which would be more useful, that'd depend on how much atk and when(situational concerns, etc.) There's no fixing Apoc now, it's a straight up defensive weapon like Bravura. It gives the job utility, if you want damage, make a different REM.
Cerberus.Conagh said: » kithaofcerb said: » Creaucent Alazrin said: » Only thing they would have to do to make Apoc useful as a DD tool is to make entropy str based and give it an attack buff. Even just STR based would make it significantly stronger, if it kept the same attack penalty that lots(all?) of the merits WSs have it would be slightly more competitive. The Catastrophe change to 40% STR is a good start, but probably still not enough. Edit: This didn't make a whole lot of sense, I mean that lifting the attack penalty wouldn't be as important to me as changing the modifier to STR Requiescat is a MND mod, you know how strong that would be WITHOUT an attack penalty?! Removing the attack deficit on a WS is a HUGE gain on high end content with high Defence. This is why attack stats on Fudo are so valued as they add a great deal of damage to it. Personally, in current content I would say Attack > than a STR mod, should have a bigger impact. Ragnarok.Martel said: » I don't think entropy has an atk penalty. For Merit ws I think it was just Requiescat, Resolution, and blade shun with atk-. When you have a STR mod, you get a fair bit more atk as a side effect of stacking STR. Although, I suppose that line of thought is mitigated a lot by general ilvl stat vomit. But still, gear with high str and atk is fairly common, whereas gear with mnd(or int in entropy's case) and atk+ is rather elusive. Although I can't speak for DRK specifically, in this case. As for which would be more useful, that'd depend on how much atk and when(situational concerns, etc.) So theoretically if SE was to change the modifier to STR, would this make scythe DRK viable compared to Great Sword DRK or would both of these options still be light years behind other DD job and be in the exact same spot we're in right now? Quote: So theoretically if SE was to change the modifier to STR, would this make scythe DRK viable compared to Great Sword DRK or would both of these options still be light years behind other DD job and be in the exact same spot we're in right now? I think what SE needs to do is differentiate scythes and greatswords more. Scythes have the highest base dmg in the game yet their weapon skills pale in comparsion to Great Katana, Great Axe, Great Sword and Polearm. SE needs to boost Scythes somehow by giving DRKs special traits to incentivise using Scythes over greatswords because Scythe is DRK's A+ weapon yet all of their primier weapon skills have odd or weak modifiers and low fTPs. Maybe give Souleater a bonus with Scythes or a trait that boosts Scythe damage.
The highest damage and highest delay weapons ought to have the most destructive weapon skills yet they're probably 6th or 7th in terms of damage. In terms of WS power: Greatsword; Great Katana, Great Axe, Polearm are all better than Scythe, hell maybe even a BLU's CDC or a WAR or RUN's Ruinator is probably better than Insurgency. Quote: It would still have the very real problem of not making Light with itself. Pretty much the same flaw as WAR and DRG have. Sure Ukko>Ukko= Light and Camlann>Camlann=Lightn and Torcleaver>Torcleaver but those WS are inferior than Stardiver/Ruinator/Resolution. Only MNK BLU and SAM benefit from Empy WS> Empy WS= Light because they get the best empy WS. Out of curiosity, is the ignore defense component of weaponskills like Camlann's directly additive with other -defense effects? I would assume so but I don't know that 100%.
Valefor.Ophannus said: » I think what SE needs to do is differentiate scythes and greatswords more. Scythes have the highest base dmg in the game yet their weapon skills pale in comparsion to Great Katana, Great Axe, Great Sword and Polearm. SE needs to boost Scythes somehow by giving DRKs special traits to incentivise using Scythes over greatswords because Scythe is DRK's A+ weapon yet all of their primier weapon skills have odd or weak modifiers and low fTPs. Maybe give Souleater a bonus with Scythes or a trait that boosts Scythe damage. The highest damage and highest delay weapons ought to have the most destructive weapon skills yet they're probably 6th or 7th in terms of damage. In terms of WS power: Greatsword; Great Katana, Great Axe, Polearm are all better than Scythe, hell maybe even a BLU's CDC or a WAR or RUN's Ruinator is probably better than Insurgency. Quote: It would still have the very real problem of not making Light with itself. Pretty much the same flaw as WAR and DRG have. Sure Ukko>Ukko= Light and Camlann>Camlann=Lightn and Torcleaver>Torcleaver but those WS are inferior than Stardiver/Ruinator/Resolution. Only MNK BLU and SAM benefit from Empy WS> Empy WS= Light because they get the best empy WS. This brings me great joy that other people actually think that DRK needs changes instead of just "Stop complaining suckless bro" towards DRKs. I'm quite impressed at how far this DRK discussion has gone and not become hostile.
Chriscoffey said: » Valefor.Ophannus said: » There's no fixing Apoc now, it's a straight up defensive weapon like Bravura. It gives the job utility, if you want damage, make a different REM. Quote: So theoretically if SE was to change the modifier to STR, would this make scythe DRK viable compared to Great Sword DRK or would both of these options still be light years behind other DD job and be in the exact same spot we're in right now? I would LOVE for SE to make Entropy scale from 2.0 to 5.0 and go across TP. Samurais would rage quit across the world lol. You would have to keep Castastrophe lower than Entropy due to the healing factor involved OR if they allowed a past haste cap from it then it could be balanced where DPS zerg made up the difference in WS spam. I agree with Apoc being a utility weapon. I might even go as far to say one of the best utility weapons in the game, due to (more or less) unlimited HP and MP. But considering people are more looking for DPS and not valuing utility as much, how exactly are we going to get Scythes that aren't Liberator to get to a competitive level? This is where raising ftp values, giving DRK access to stronger WSs with scythe or giving them some sort of "scythe affinity" style buff where using scythes start to produce better results than great sword comes in. Ok base the usefulness of an entire weapon type on a single weapon. Regardless of Liberator, Insurgency is a terrible WS. 0.5fTP 20%STR/INT. By comparison, Drakesbane is 1.0ftp 50% STR and Crits, Kings Justice is 50% STR and 1.0 fTP etc. Liberator is good but lets not bring REMs into the conversation. Scythe is a terrible weapon class unless you have a mythic. The weapon skills are all lackluster.
h2h= Victory Smite is amazing and chains into itself GK= I don't even GS= I don't even GA=Ukkos has some utility, Upheaval is pretty damn solid with SPs up even with a VIT mod(which is better than an INT mod to be honest) Polearm=Drakes is a wash but Stardiver at least is quite solid being a STR mod, added benefit of giving the alliance +5% crit rate Sword= CDC is very solid on BLU Axe=Ruinator is freaking amazing As for Scythe, Entropy and Insurgency are just so boring and weak, I've never seen Quietus ever used, Spiral Hell/Cross Reaper are probably boss at high TP. Cross Reaper seems like the only solid WS Scythe gets other than Entropy. Again, I'm not saying DRK is bad, DRK has its own issues but discussing Scythes as a weapon type. Valefor.Ophannus said: » Ok base the usefulness of an entire weapon type on a single weapon. Regardless of Liberator, Insurgency is a terrible WS. 0.5fTP 20%STR/INT. By comparison, Drakesbane is 1.0ftp 50% STR and Crits, Kings Justice is 50% STR and 1.0 fTP etc. Liberator is good but lets not bring REMs into the conversation. Scythe is a terrible weapon class unless you have a mythic. The weapon skills are all lackluster. h2h= Victory Smite is amazing and chains into itself GK= I don't even GS= I don't even GA=Ukkos has some utility, Upheaval is pretty damn solid with SPs up even with a VIT mod(which is better than an INT mod to be honest) Polearm=Drakes is a wash but Stardiver at least is quite solid being a STR mod, added benefit of giving the alliance +5% crit rate Sword= CDC is very solid on BLU Axe=Ruinator is freaking amazing As for Scythe, Entropy and Insurgency are just so boring and weak, I've never seen Quietus ever used, Spiral Hell/Cross Reaper are probably boss at high TP. Cross Reaper seems like the only solid WS Scythe gets other than Entropy. Again, I'm not saying DRK is bad, DRK has its own issues but discussing Scythes as a weapon type. But this is the problem, is that there is pretty well only one scythe that will make you a competitive DD, and every other option is a great sword in terms of DPS, no matter the source. You're correct here, we're agreeing, that scythes are weak due to the fact that only one of them is powerful enough to make up for its awful WS numbers in white damage. kithaofcerb said: » So theoretically if SE was to change the modifier to STR, would this make scythe DRK viable compared to Great Sword DRK or would both of these options still be light years behind other DD job and be in the exact same spot we're in right now? Chriscoffey said: » It would need a fTP increase to make it more viable as it is now Catastrophe is a set value @ 2.75 w str 40% and int 40%. Entropy scales from .75 to 2.0 @ different TP levels. A big boost in fTP would increase either of these immensely. But anyway, Changing entropy's wsc to str brought it up to within about 100 dmg of resolution. Which Is reasonably close, but still a DPS loss for using Scythe. Although Liberator would probably have a freaking field day with STR modded Entropy.... o.o; But that's with mythic, and I don't think that was within the current subject matter. So, I second the thought that it'd need an ftp adjustment to pull ahead of resolution. Ragnarok.Martel said: » kithaofcerb said: » So theoretically if SE was to change the modifier to STR, would this make scythe DRK viable compared to Great Sword DRK or would both of these options still be light years behind other DD job and be in the exact same spot we're in right now? Chriscoffey said: » It would need a fTP increase to make it more viable as it is now Catastrophe is a set value @ 2.75 w str 40% and int 40%. Entropy scales from .75 to 2.0 @ different TP levels. A big boost in fTP would increase either of these immensely. But anyway, Changing entropy's wsc to str brought it up to within about 100 dmg of resolution. Which Is reasonably close, but still a DPS loss for using Scythe. Although Liberator would probably have a freaking field day with STR modded Entropy.... o.o; But that's with mythic, and I don't think that was within the current subject matter. So, I second the thought that it'd need an ftp adjustment to pull ahead of resolution. But this is progress. Ftp change or not, 100 damage within resolution is pretty awesome, since we've been forced into using Great Swords for years now due to inadequate weapon skills on scythe. I would give up 100 WS damage average to be able to use a scythe again instead of a great sword. Another thing for this example is you chose Apoc, which comparably is a low base damage scythe compared to the other 119 scythes that are available. Being within damage of resolution on what is arguably DRK's strongest weapon with what is not atm considered a damage weapon is huge. Now we just have to wait for SE's dev team to catch on. just give every DD job a weapon with save tp 300.
It doesn't compute that Scythes are weak. You'd think that from an RPG standpoint, ok slow weapons should be strong and powerful at face value, and small weapons should be fast and weak but can 'spike' for high damage using gimmicks(job abilities). You'd expect Scythes to have the strongest or second strongest weapon skills(because WAR should really be slightly stronger than DRK, given that DRK has the utility of various magic spells and WAR doesn't). Upheaval is strong but probably like an 8-8.5 relative to other options, nothing how like Ukkos was in Abyssea compared to other DDs which was like a 15 out of 10 >.>.
It seems balanced at 75 for DRK to have A in GS and A+ in Scythe because they had different SC properties and were used in different situations. But once Resolution came out, there was no reason to use Scythe. The motif should have been retained in my opinion: Greatsword=faster but single; strong fTP weapon skills. Scythe= Slower but multi hit; weaker fTP weapon skills, additional effects. Having Scythes based on more magey stats and Greatswords based on more melee stats was more evident at 75 I suppose. As soon as Reso came out, this all changed for the worse for scythes. Ragnarok.Martel said: » kithaofcerb said: » So theoretically if SE was to change the modifier to STR, would this make scythe DRK viable compared to Great Sword DRK or would both of these options still be light years behind other DD job and be in the exact same spot we're in right now? Chriscoffey said: » It would need a fTP increase to make it more viable as it is now Catastrophe is a set value @ 2.75 w str 40% and int 40%. Entropy scales from .75 to 2.0 @ different TP levels. A big boost in fTP would increase either of these immensely. But anyway, Changing entropy's wsc to str brought it up to within about 100 dmg of resolution. Which Is reasonably close, but still a DPS loss for using Scythe. Although Liberator would probably have a freaking field day with STR modded Entropy.... o.o; But that's with mythic, and I don't think that was within the current subject matter. So, I second the thought that it'd need an ftp adjustment to pull ahead of resolution. They look awesome and being a drk since ohh 2008 I levelled the job and did events with a scythe since GSes back then kinda sucked even with the 100 loss id use them over a GS any day. To me a drk looks more like a drk with a scythe on his or her back than a GS. Creaucent Alazrin said: » They look awesome and being a drk since ohh 2008 I levelled the job and did events with a scythe since GSes back then kinda sucked even with the 100 loss id use them over a GS any day. To me a drk looks more like a drk with a scythe on his or her back than a GS. How you feel and how it looks are VERY relevant, please, enlighten everyone further, I'm intrigued.
[+]
Well I guess it's not as disappointing now, but I think the original ability from the WOTG fight would've been better. I wonder what the recast will be, and the base acc.
Quote: It will be possible to summon Atomos without using Astral Flow. In regards to the absorption effect, it is the same effect as that of dark magic spell Absorb-Attri and the blue magic spell Voracious Trunk. The effect duration from the monster you absorb an effect from will carry over, so if you absorb it when there are only a few seconds left, it will only remain on your party members for this duration as well. Essentially, when it comes to Blood Pacts, Atomos is similar to Odin and Alexander in the sense that it is summoned just for this ability alone; however, Astral Flow is not required. There are no plans to add other Blood Pact abilities for Atomos. How you feel is irrelvant. DRKs use swords/greatswords in every other FF game. Scythes were a bizarre weapon addition to FF.
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