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California debates 'yes means yes' sex assault law
By Blazed1979 2014-10-04 03:49:41
He missed out the most important and relevant fact for this discussion - how alcohol effects the female brain (a brain hard wired to reproduce and nurture). The left hemisphere is already lagging behind the right hemisphere in a female brain. Shutting it down all together by getting trashed only leaves the most basic parts of the brain functioning, but without any other influences thanks to the effects of alcohol.
So with men you get Violence and with women you get slutyness
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-10-04 04:14:28
Why aren't you in game Rav? I want to /slap and run.
I'm hiding, man. I don't mind the /slaps, but it's everything else you can do to my character while I'm afk that has me worried.
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VIP
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-10-04 04:39:49
Yes, there a biological differences between human genders, duh. Does that mean that modern society and thought are somehow above one gender? Well, some of you guys make a pretty compelling case, but not the case you think.
Please don't tell me anyone actually watches "Dr." Oz, seriously?
That's not Dr. Oz, who is the supplement peddler, that's "the doctors" or whatever.
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Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-10-04 05:22:48
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »There is so much conflicting analysis in this post, I don't know where to begin. I'll just focus on this oh so rational and well researched quote.
Quote: So choose male if you want one-two thing done really phenomenally well, or choose female if you want a lot of things done ok'sh. XD
Except.
Quote: I've read more about the male brain as opposed to Women's brains, because there seems to be a lot more info readily available about it. That or there just isn't more to share about the female brain.
Or maybe -and I know you being a male and therefore must have had more deep analytical thoughts about this subject- you aren't really interested in re-evaluating your inherent bias?
Most research dealing with male and female brains is tandom research. As in they were both examined at the same time.
This is a much more complicated subject than men are better than women, women are better than men crap.
Brains are permanently changed from hormones.
Women who have had children have a different brain structure than women who have not. Father's who are involved with the mother of their child and the child have a different brain structure than men with no children.
Oxytocin is a heavy hitter in the hormone category. Couples who are together longer have higher levels of this hormone when they interact with one another than couples of a shorter duration or long term couples in rocky relationships. Does this alter the brain? Oxytocin has been shown to, so my guess is yes, but I haven't found a study that has examined this.
There are studies that look at perception.
In one study girls were less likely to participate in events that had an uneven gender ratio favoring boys (3 to 1). In another study when girls were told a math exam had no gender bias they scored better. When white males were told that their scores were going to be evaluated against Asian males their scores dropped.
Drugs and alcohol also affect the structure of your brain.
It is another variation of the nature vs. nurture argument. And it is complicated.
These studies also need to be examined across different social structures and cultures to see if the results vary.
Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-10-04 06:32:13
Yes, there a biological differences between human genders, duh. Does that mean that modern society and thought are somehow above one gender? Well, some of you guys make a pretty compelling case, but not the case you think.
Please don't tell me anyone actually watches "Dr." Oz, seriously?
That's not Dr. Oz, who is the supplement peddler, that's "the doctors" or whatever.
Define "above one gender". Define which single dimensional measure stick your trying to use.
This is important because humans are incredibly complex creatures and the differences between are genders is rather vast. Most of our sexual dimorphism is in the internal wiring of our brains, not in our physical bodies (though there exists much dimorphism there too).
Understanding this complexity is important because it totally destroys the progressive concept of "gender is a social construct". Which in turn destroys the concept of "equal representation". You will never get 50% of electrical engineers being female, never get 50% of business owners, CEO's, CTO's, or lawmakers being female. Just like you'll never get 50% of nurses or other female dominated tasks being male. Our "natural gender roles" weren't made by some invisible "patriarchy", they were made because each gender specializes differently and those roles fit that specialization. The only way to get "equal gender representation" is to enact quota and lower the standards for females to such a level that it removes all risk (female brains are wired to be risk adverse btw) and obligations.
This isn't to say that females should be disallowed into any industry, on the contrary anyone should be allowed to attempt anything they excel at. The standards should not be lowered, women should not be given free money to attempt STEM courses, there shouldn't be large amounts of financial resources poured into making it easier for a female to do a traditionally male role.
Of course we get called all sorts of nasty names for pointing the truth, because it goes against the politically correct narrative being pushed by the progressives. If you don't believe me then just research the Frankfurt Institute and what it's mission is, I say is because it still exists and its followers are alive and well.
By Jetackuu 2014-10-04 09:35:58
Please don't tell me anyone actually watches "Dr." Oz, seriously?
That's not Dr. Oz, who is the supplement peddler, that's "the doctors" or whatever. my bad, wasn't aware of that show ad saw the "thedr" part and assumed, that's what one gets for that, eh?
carry on
By fonewear 2014-10-04 09:45:57
I thought men were pigs. So you can't compare men and women.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-10-04 09:49:00
He missed out the most important and relevant fact for this discussion - how alcohol effects the female brain (a brain hard wired to reproduce and nurture). The left hemisphere is already lagging behind the right hemisphere in a female brain. Shutting it down all together by getting trashed only leaves the most basic parts of the brain functioning, but without any other influences thanks to the effects of alcohol.
So with men you get Violence and with women you get slutyness
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-10-04 10:00:11
I'd like to know how nature selected for men to be superior electrical engineers, IT managers, system admins or CEOs.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-10-04 10:06:31
something to do with taking risks
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By Shiva.Katharyn 2014-10-04 10:13:34
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »I'd like to know how nature selected for men to be superior CEOs.
Given the rate at which major national companies (even countries themselves) seek bailouts under male leadership to keep from failing miserably, I wouldn't say it's wise to argue how great they are in leadership roles.
But I have to ask how things went from california's protection law to brain differences between genders? Must have take a bit since this thread is 34 pages long.
Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-10-04 10:14:02
Primary sources people. Studies/papers/et cetera. Youtube is rarely a primary source, and because your doctor/teacher said so isn't good enough either.
If you can't provide actual, qualified sources for your information, it doesn't matter how many words you throw in your posts.
Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-10-04 10:17:17
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »I'd like to know how nature selected for men to be superior CEOs.
Given the rate at which major national companies (even countries themselves) seek bailouts under male leadership to keep from failing miserably, I wouldn't say it's wise to argue how great they are in leadership roles.
But I have to ask how things went from california's protection law to brain differences between genders? Must have take a bit since this thread is 34 pages long. Welcome to FFXIAH P&R. Where global warming is by page 9, gay fascist strawmen abound, and threads are tortured beyond all belief.
Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-10-04 10:22:01
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »I'd like to know how nature selected for men to be superior electrical engineers, IT managers, system admins or CEOs.
Left side brain rational thinking combined with higher risk taking. Not that it matters as you won't do any of your own research.
Males take more risks, both genetically and in actual life. The result is more male "winners", but also more male "losers". Look at the number of homeless without shelters, or the uneducated. Males are at a higher risk for suicide and represent 95% of workplace related deaths. The number of criminals and the nature of the crimes are ridiculously biased towards males. The only way to win in life is to take calculated risks, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. We all remember the winners but completely forget the losers. Throughout history most males didn't get to pass on their genetics, most died and become evolutionary dead ends. Whereas females largely got to pass on their genetics, as long as they were safe and did everything in groups. All a female proto human needed to do for genetic success was stay alive and look fertile, a male needed to demonstrate his genetic worth by being successful at hunting, fighting off predators and dominating other males in his tribe. That dramatic difference put evolutionary pressure on the sex's to specialize in different strategies which resulted in the different brain structures we see today.
Of course you could just join the other white knights and advocate for programming in C+=
This is an example of what happens when a feminist tries to understand logic.
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By volkom 2014-10-04 10:30:29
In reality men and women are not created equal.
they are
Elaborate, please. i was getting at the base process part. like the fertilization of the egg. but of course, genes and other factors would cause them not to be equal. shoot even in religion~ wasn't eve created from the rib of adam or something like that?
Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-10-04 10:35:21
In reality men and women are not created equal.
they are
Elaborate, please. i was getting at the base process part. like the fertilization of the egg. but of course, genes and other factors would cause them not to be equal. shoot even in religion~ wasn't eve created from the rib of adam or something like that?
Even then they are not equal. Females have an inherent value as they are the only ones who can create the next generation of life. No matter what a male does, its the females of a species that control the genetic material for that species. This is where the idea of male disposability came from and why we laugh when men get brutally killed but cringe when a fertile women gets killed. Males are born with nearly no value, the only value that possess is what they can demonstrate. Females are born with an incredible amount of value, for no other reason then they possess a womb.
By Nazrious 2014-10-04 10:46:34
In reality men and women are not created equal.
they are
Elaborate, please. i was getting at the base process part. like the fertilization of the egg. but of course, genes and other factors would cause them not to be equal. shoot even in religion~ wasn't eve created from the rib of adam or something like that?
Even then they are not equal. Females have an inherent value as they are the only ones who can create the next generation of life. No matter what a male does, its the females of a species that control the genetic material for that species. This is where the idea of male disposability came from and why we laugh when men get brutally killed but cringe when a fertile women gets killed. Males are born with nearly no value, the only value that possess is what they can demonstrate. Females are born with an incredible amount of value, for no other reason then they possess a womb.
Ok so any one read any D&D?
Drow Society:
Male enslavement and rape, worship of chaos goddess, matriarchs petty infighting due to lady drama and female ruthlessness. Yeah Spider should be the symbol of these neo naz... I mean Neo Feminists.
/thread
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-10-04 10:58:00
Missed this part.
That's just insanity. I would love to see any type of real programming that can actually run on that nonsense. Oh wait that's right you still have to convert into machine code which relies solely on logic. So good luck with that. Unless they come up with a feminist model of electricity that can function properly in practice.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-10-04 11:07:05
i want to tell myself those are trolls, but i'm having trouble finding anything to indicate so
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-10-04 11:24:22
Are you the guys who avoid going to female accountants, doctors, bankers, real estate agents and/or businesses because you feel genitalia should matter more than the sum total of their efforts? lol
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-10-04 11:25:40
Pointing out strawmen feminists is a good way to appear like you have a point without actually having one.
Oooh, you're gonna throw out Anita Sarkeesian and bra burners next. What ever will I do? My bulwark will be shattered.
Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-10-04 11:26:20
God, help me! Why can't I tear myself away from this?
You're using biology selectively. Yes, there are differences, but don't ever fool yourselves into thinking that there isn't a symbiosis and outliers that change both males and females biologically with certain thresholds crossed in life.
Really interesting article about DNA analysis that has advanced our understanding of the human body and created more questions.
DNA double take
Whole article spoiled because the NYTimes has an inconsistent paywall. The linked article cites multiple sources if you are interested in reading more about each story presented. From biology class to “C.S.I.,” we are told again and again that our genome is at the heart of our identity. Read the sequences in the chromosomes of a single cell, and learn everything about a person’s genetic information — or, as 23andme, a prominent genetic testing company, says on its Web site, “The more you know about your DNA, the more you know about yourself.”
But scientists are discovering that — to a surprising degree — we contain genetic multitudes. Not long ago, researchers had thought it was rare for the cells in a single healthy person to differ genetically in a significant way. But scientists are finding that it’s quite common for an individual to have multiple genomes. Some people, for example, have groups of cells with mutations that are not found in the rest of the body. Some have genomes that came from other people.
“There have been whispers in the matrix about this for years, even decades, but only in a very hypothetical sense,” said Alexander Urban, a geneticist at Stanford University. Even three years ago, suggesting that there was widespread genetic variation in a single body would have been met with skepticism, he said. “You would have just run against the wall.”
But a series of recent papers by Dr. Urban and others has demonstrated that those whispers were not just hypothetical. The variation in the genomes found in a single person is too large to be ignored. “We now know it’s there,” Dr. Urban said. “Now we’re mapping this new continent.”
Dr. James R. Lupski, a leading expert on the human genome at Baylor College of Medicine, wrote in a recent review in the journal Science that the existence of multiple genomes in an individual could have a tremendous impact on the practice of medicine. “It’s changed the way I think,” he said in an interview.
Scientists are finding links from multiple genomes to certain rare diseases, and now they’re beginning to investigate genetic variations to shed light on more common disorders.
Science’s changing view is also raising questions about how forensic scientists should use DNA evidence to identify people. It’s also posing challenges for genetic counselors, who can’t assume that the genetic information from one cell can tell them about the DNA throughout a person’s body.
Human Blueprint
When an egg and sperm combine their DNA, the genome they produce contains all the necessary information for building a new human. As the egg divides to form an embryo, it produces new copies of that original genome.
For decades, geneticists have explored how an embryo can use the instructions in a single genome to develop muscles, nerves and the many other parts of the human body. They also use sequencing to understand genetic variations that can raise the risk of certain diseases. Genetic counselors can look at the results of genetic screenings to help patients and their families cope with these diseases — altering their diet, for example, if they lack a gene for a crucial enzyme.
The cost of sequencing an entire genome has fallen so drastically in the past 20 years — now a few thousand dollars, down from an estimated $3 billion for the public-private partnership that sequenced the first human genome — that doctors are beginning to sequence the entire genomes of some patients. (Sequencing can be done in as little as 50 hours.) And they’re identifying links between mutations and diseases that have never been seen before.
Yet all these powerful tests are based on the assumption that, inside our body, a genome is a genome is a genome. Scientists believed that they could look at the genome from cells taken in a cheek swab and be able to learn about the genomes of cells in the brain or the liver or anywhere else in the body.
In the mid-1900s, scientists began to get clues that this was not always true. In 1953, for example, a British woman donated a pint of blood. It turned out that some of her blood was Type O and some was Type A. The scientists who studied her concluded that she had acquired some of her blood from her twin brother in the womb, including his genomes in his blood cells.
Chimerism, as such conditions came to be known, seemed for many years to be a rarity. But “it can be commoner than we realized,” said Dr. Linda Randolph, a pediatrician at Children’s Hospital in Los Angeles who is an author of a review of chimerism published in The American Journal of Medical Genetics in July.
Twins can end up with a mixed supply of blood when they get nutrients in the womb through the same set of blood vessels. In other cases, two fertilized eggs may fuse together. These so-called embryonic chimeras may go through life blissfully unaware of their origins.
One woman discovered she was a chimera as late as age 52. In need of a kidney transplant, she was tested so that she might find a match. The results indicated that she was not the mother of two of her three biological children. It turned out that she had originated from two genomes. One genome gave rise to her blood and some of her eggs; other eggs carried a separate genome.
Women can also gain genomes from their children. After a baby is born, it may leave some fetal cells behind in its mother’s body, where they can travel to different organs and be absorbed into those tissues. “It’s pretty likely that any woman who has been pregnant is a chimera,” Dr. Randolph said.
Everywhere You Look
As scientists begin to search for chimeras systematically — rather than waiting for them to turn up in puzzling medical tests — they’re finding them in a remarkably high fraction of people. In 2012, Canadian scientists performed autopsies on the brains of 59 women. They found neurons with Y chromosomes in 63 percent of them. The neurons likely developed from cells originating in their sons.
In The International Journal of Cancer in August, Eugen Dhimolea of the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston and colleagues reported that male cells can also infiltrate breast tissue. When they looked for Y chromosomes in samples of breast tissue, they found it in 56 percent of the women they investigated.
A century ago, geneticists discovered one way in which people might acquire new genomes. They were studying “mosaic animals,” rare creatures with oddly-colored patches of fur. The animals didn’t inherit the genes for these patches from their parents. Instead, while embryos, they acquired a mutation in a skin cell that divided to produce a colored patch.
Mosaicism, as this condition came to be known, was difficult to study in humans before the age of DNA sequencing. Scientists could only discover instances in which the mutations and the effects were big.
In 1960, researchers found that a form of leukemia is a result of mosaicism. A blood cell spontaneously mutates as it divides, moving a big chunk of one chromosome to another.
Later studies added support to the idea that cancer is a result of mutations in specific cells. But scientists had little idea of how common cases of mosaicism were beyond cancer.
“We didn’t have the technology to systematically think about them,” said Dr. Christopher Walsh, a geneticist at Children’s Hospital in Boston who recently published a review on mosaicism and disease in Science. “Now we’re in the midst of a revolution.”
Benign Differences
The latest findings make it clear that mosaicism is quite common — even in healthy cells.
Dr. Urban and his colleagues, for example, investigated mutations in cells called fibroblasts, which are found in connective tissue. They searched in particular for cases in which a segment of DNA was accidentally duplicated or deleted. As they reported last year, 30 percent of the fibroblasts carried at least one such mutation.
Michael Snyder of Stanford University and his colleagues searched for mosaicism by performing autopsies on six people who had died of causes other than cancer. In five of the six people they autopsied, the scientists reported last October, they found cells in different organs with stretches of DNA that had accidentally been duplicated or deleted.
Now that scientists are beginning to appreciate how common chimerism and mosaicism are, they’re investigating the effects of these conditions on our health. “That’s still open really, because these are still early days,” Dr. Urban said.
Nevertheless, said Dr. Walsh, “it’s safe to say that a large proportion of those mutations will be benign.” Recent studies on chimeras suggest that these extra genomes can even be beneficial. Chimeric cells from fetuses appear to seek out damaged tissue and help heal it, for example.
But scientists are also starting to find cases in which mutations in specific cells help give rise to diseases other than cancer. Dr. Walsh, for example, studies a childhood disorder of the brain called hemimegalencephaly, in which one side of the brain grows larger than the other, leading to devastating seizures.
“The kids have no chance for a normal life without desperate surgery to take out half of their brain,” he said.
Dr. Walsh has studied the genomes of neurons removed during those surgeries. He and his colleagues discovered that some neurons in the overgrown hemisphere have mutations to one gene. Two other teams of scientists have identified mutations on other genes, all of which help to control the growth of neurons. “We can get our hands on the mechanism of the disease,” said Dr. Walsh.
Other researchers are now investigating whether mosaicism is a factor in more common diseases, like schizophrenia. “This will play itself out over the next 5 or 10 years,” said Dr. Urban, who with his colleagues is studying it.
Moving Cautiously
Medical researchers aren’t the only scientists interested in our multitudes of personal genomes. So are forensic scientists. When they attempt to identify criminals or murder victims by matching DNA, they want to avoid being misled by the variety of genomes inside a single person.
Last year, for example, forensic scientists at the Washington State Patrol Crime Laboratory Division described how a saliva sample and a sperm sample from the same suspect in a sexual assault case didn’t match.
Bone marrow transplants can also confound forensic scientists. Researchers at Innsbruck Medical University in Austria took cheek swabs from 77 people who had received transplants up to nine years earlier. In 74 percent of the samples, they found a mix of genomes — both their own and those from the marrow donors, the scientists reported this year. The transplanted stem cells hadn’t just replaced blood cells, but had also become cells lining the cheek.
While the risk of confusion is real, it is manageable, experts said. “This should not be much of a concern for forensics,” said Manfred Kayser, a professor of Forensic Molecular Biology at Erasmus University in Rotterdam. In the cases where mosaicism or chimerism causes confusion, forensic scientists can clear it up by other means. In the Austrian study, for example, the scientists found no marrow donor genomes in the hair of the recipients.
For genetic counselors helping clients make sense of DNA tests, our many genomes pose more serious challenges. A DNA test that uses blood cells may miss disease-causing mutations in the cells of other organs. “We can’t tell you what else is going on,” said Nancy B. Spinner, a geneticist at the University of Pennsylvania, who published a review about the implications of mosaicism for genetic counseling in the May issue of Nature Reviews Genetics.
That may change as scientists develop more powerful ways to investigate our different genomes and learn more about their links to diseases. “It’s not tomorrow that you’re going to walk into your doctor’s office and they’re going to think this way,” said Dr. Lupski. “It’s going to take time.”
Edit:
the act of having a child is not a one-way transmission of genetic material
There is an exchange of DNA that passes into the mother
Previous thread.
Shuck your notions of continuing your lives with testosterone laden bravado, because you change with us. You hormonally become more "nurturing" also. (Hey! You may even get a "sympathy baby" also!)
As for tears mentioned earlier in the thread, guess what? You are biologically conditioned to react. The spirit is strong, but the hormones are weak.
So, for all of those who enjoy the biological compare and contrast to placate your notions of biological superiority, we're all pretty much walking hand-in-hand. I'm sorry you haven't found/might never find your hand to hold for the duration of your time on this planet.
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By fonewear 2014-10-04 11:27:50
This thread is dangerous I might accidentally learn something.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-10-04 11:30:49
Given the proper resources, training and knowledge, women are just as capable at specialized fields as men albeit they come at problems from a different point of view which is good overall for competition and the pursuit of knowledge. All the appeals to biology, reproduction and tradition fall flat in a world where humanity is taxing planetary resources and technology will soon render reproduction a trivial exercise. Women are weaker on average than dudes? STRAP AN EXO-SUIT ON HER. Samus Aran some ***.
From a practical sense, the average person isn't losing sleep at night regarding the viability of our species going out the next 10k years. What people do care about is the ability to self-determinate and pursuit their passions such that they can be effective members of progress-oriented society. This is hampered when society tells you no, you can't be an engineer because you've a crevasse in your pants. Or no, you can't be an interior decorator because that's sissy stuff, learn to kill maggot!
If my daughter wants to build bombs or my son sew dresses all I care is they do it well and with passion. Society too will appreciate someone who actually values skill rather than dangly parts.
The real argument of course is one of power and control, as it often is. The smarter (ability to think critically) women get on average, the less of a stranglehold men have over the means of reproduction, power and the societal values held most dear. It isn't very much different from why whites feared that black dude (he doesn't have a name) getting into the Oval Office. It's a fear that all the ***you've stirred will come back to blow up in your face. See: Heterosexual men being hit on by homosexual men - it's *** gold.
As for who cups my balls at the hospital, yanks out my teeth or handles my taxes? I'm gauging skill, not your genitalia. Don't disappoint 90lb female plumber, I'm rooting for ya. Just unclog my *** pipes efficiently or I will end you on Angie's List.
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By fonewear 2014-10-04 11:39:38
Leave me to my stereotypes though I don't want to learn on a Saturday.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-10-04 11:42:27
Leave me to my stereotypes though I don't' want to learn on a Saturday.
You traded your brain for a silicone bag years ago, there's little to fear.
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By fonewear 2014-10-04 11:43:05
With a body like this I don't have to think !
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-10-04 11:45:24
With a body like this I don't have to think !
How's it feel to know you're winning at biology? You've managed to perfectly adapt to your surroundings and trounce all of the patriarchy.
God's gotta give you at least a blue ribbon and a coupon for $5 off shrimp at Applebeees for that.
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By fonewear 2014-10-04 11:46:15
How to be successful on Youtube be a woman with big boobs. Your results may vary.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-10-04 11:50:54
What does a plus sign smell like? Is the number seven odd or just different?
Quote: SAN DIEGO (AP) — College students have heard a similar refrain for years in campaigns to stop sexual assault: No means no.
Now, as universities around the country that are facing pressure over the handling of rape allegations adopt policies to define consensual sex, California is poised to take it a step further. Lawmakers are considering what would be the first-in-the-nation measure requiring all colleges that receive public funds to set a standard for when "yes means yes."
Defining consensual sex is a growing trend by universities in an effort to do more to protect victims. From the University of California system to Yale, schools have been adopting standards to distinguish when consent was given for a sexual activity and when it was not.
Legislation passed by California's state Senate in May and coming before the Assembly this month would require all schools that receive public funds for student financial assistance to set a so-called "affirmative consent standard" that could be used in investigating and adjudicating sexual assault allegations. That would be defined as "an affirmative, unambiguous and conscious decision" by each party to engage in sexual activity.
Silence or lack of resistance does not constitute consent. The legislation says it's also not consent if the person is drunk, drugged, unconscious or asleep.
Lawmakers say consent can be nonverbal, and universities with similar policies have outlined examples as maybe a nod of the head or moving in closer to the person.
Several state legislatures, including Maryland, Texas and Connecticut, introduced bills in the past year to push colleges to do more after a White House task force reported that 1 in 5 female college students is a victim of sexual assault. The U.S. Education Department also took the unprecedented step of releasing the names of schools facing federal investigation for the way they handle sexual abuse allegations.
But no state legislation has gone as far as California's bill in requiring a consent standard.
Critics say the state is overstepping its bounds. The Los Angeles Times in an editorial after the bill passed the state Senate 27-4 wrote that it raises questions as to whether it is "reasonable" or "enforceable." The legislation is based on the White House task force's recommendations.
"It seems extremely difficult and extraordinarily intrusive to micromanage sex so closely as to tell young people what steps they must take in the privacy of their own dorm rooms," the newspaper said.
Some fear navigating the murky waters of consent spells trouble for universities.
"Frequently these cases involve two individuals, both of whom maybe were under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and it can be very tricky to ascertain whether consent was obtained," said Ada Meloy, general counsel of the American Council on Education, which represents college presidents.
She said schools need to guarantee a safe environment for students, while law enforcement is best suited for handling more serious sexual assault cases.
John F. Banzhaf III, a George Washington University's Law School professor, believes having university disciplinary panels interpret vague cues and body language will open the door for more lawsuits.
The legal definition of rape in most states means the perpetrator used force or the threat of force against the victim, but the California legislation could set the stage in which both parties could accuse each other of sexual assault, he said.
"This bill would very, very radically change the definition of rape," he said.
University of California at Berkeley student Meghan Warner, 20, said that's a good thing. She said she was sexually assaulted during her freshman year by two men at a fraternity but didn't report it because she believed "that unless it was a stranger at night with a weapon who attacked you when you were walking home, that it wasn't rape. It's just a crappy thing that happened." She now runs campus workshops to teach students what constitutes consent.
"Most students don't know what consent is," she said. "I've asked at the workshops how many people think if a girl is blacked out drunk that it's OK to have sex with her. The amount of people who raised their hands was just startling."
Defining consent may be easy to do on paper, said Laura Nguyen, a 21-year-old San Diego State University senior, but "we're talking about college students out at night and the reality is there's not just 'yes' or 'no.' There is a lot of in between. I really think it depends on the situation."
The legislation initially stated that "if there is confusion as to whether a person has consented or continues to consent to sexual activity, it is essential that the participants stop the activity until the confusion can be clearly resolved."
After some interpreted that as asking people to stop after each kiss to get a verbal agreement before going to the next level, the bill was amended to say consent must be "ongoing" and "can be revoked at any time."
"California needs to provide our students with education, resources, consistent policies and justice so that the system is not stacked against survivors," state Sen. Kevin de Leon, a Los Angeles Democrat, said in promoting the bill.
Supporters say investigators would have to determine whether consent had been given by both parties instead of focusing on whether the complainant resisted or said no.
Denice Labertew of the California Coalition Against Sexual Assault said the bill fosters a cultural change: "There's a lot of criticism around affirmative consent because it requires us to change the way we normally think about this."
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