Food For Thought

Well yeah... No one is suggesting that the only thing that the only thing to help people on is abyssea unless I have missed something completely. >.>

I teach people willing to learn, I don't carry dead weights. Including my friends, I taught them how to do things before going to do them together, and from there they were even able to make their own groups.

Couple weeks ago I think, on a Kurma. Just don't see any delve shout at all anymore.

I see.

Sehachan, I need your Super Kupowers to be able to distinguish willingness versus laziness in a random person's shout. Obviously if the person has a reputation, that's a different matter but most people probably dont. It seems to me that people are more comfortable with stereotyping that "if you need help, you must be lazy and not worth my precious time " to justify their selfish and/or self-centered natures and avoid feling guilty.

If this doesn't apply to you, then I apologize but your comments give me this perception. People need to get over the "dead weight " mentality and just help. It is a game. They are here to have fun the same as you are. You were afforded the chance to succeed. Give that chance to someone else and stop looking down your noses because they aren't as awesome as you currently are.

There is much merit to this when tempered with the right intentions.

You said "carry", I may help but not carry. Now re-read and you'll see what I mean.

Also I see you're trying very hard to prove that I'm some kind of *** that does nothing for the community, but maybe you should stop implying things. I didn't write a guide for my favourite job for sport, in example.

I am not trying to attack you, Sehachan. I even said in my post if I misunderstood then I apologize. Your views give the perception. If it's not how you feel, you should choose your words more carefully.

If you want to be carried it means you want to leech=dead weight. For that there are countless people offering mercenary services, pay. Nobody is going to help you if you don't want to put effort in what you need.

Understand now?

I'm surprised to see Comeatmebro making this argument.

As for the OP, stratification by intelligence/ability/time invested is not only ingrained in MMOs, but probably ingrained in human nature. Even when kids play kickball, someone is getting picked last.

I'm sure the majority of posters here will cluck and shake their heads at the treatment of this poor wow player, and continue to laugh at/shun his FFXI equivalents as soon as they leave the thread.

out of context, taken from someone who already has a problem with him

i don't really care to argue in his favor because he's clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed, but he's never done anything rude to me and i've gotten bitched at just for being nice to him

thats where it becomes a problem, there's nothing wrong with avoiding someone you consider an *** .. but actively trying to take away any help from them and force your opinion on others is just being a douchenozzle

I've certainly been an *** and participated in more than my share of dumb arguments over dumb ***. I don't have a time machine, nor am I entirely sure I'd change that if I did. Nowadays, I have no interest in that nonsense. I do my stuff with my friends, that's it. You want to be bitter, be bitter. It doesn't matter to me.. I don't exclude anyone from anything based on old drama.

all about the realism, babes

I like these types of threads.

Every so often something like this pops up in any competitive game, any. We were all new players at one point, some of us still are, but the ones who really want to progress and feel like a part of something in that game should take some time and try to learn from other players. That's the key in any social online game, and since this happened in World of Warcraft, where the community and social interaction between players is dying, it makes sense that new players or casual players have trouble, especially at a point where that game has become very very casual.

Real-time strategies and MOBAs are no different. In fact, it's probably worse. I remember my first game of League of Legends. It certainly didn't go well, as I never played DOTA, but I eventually came across someone, when I asked a question, didn't give me a *** response. I was pretty much in shock, and actually kept me playing the game.

First-person shooters? Forget about it. The only game where you can really sit down and get some real help and strategy going with pick-up players is Natural Selection 2, where the game isn't completely based player skill to aim and shoot well, but working well as a commander and following what the commander is working toward. There are other games, but that one instantly came to mind.

I have no issues with elitist. If you're wanting to participate in something that requires your complete attention to the task at hand, and being completely prepared for it, you better be. If you're keeping to yourself and doing things on your own time in a game, by all means, do what you wish, it's your time and money.

This story may seem sad, sure, but I think he never took any time to try to find help if he wanted to raid. It seems like he never questioned why people didn't want to bring him along. If this story claims the whole server knew who he was, and he knew he had a bad reputation, then why not ask yourself, "WHY"?

It's hard to take some time to learn from other players when other players won't take the time to teach you. You reference back to WoW which I played through all of LK, part of Cata, and part of MoP. The great thing about WoW were things like WoW-Heroes, MMO-Champion, WoW-Reforging, and all the other tools that players created to help other players. We have a glimmer of it here on the forums with guides for some jobs, but more often than not, they only give the top tier that you should be aiming for gear wise. There's not really an explanation for the "up and coming". There isn't a post that I have really seen showing a "widely accepted" minimum for SoA entry level, so how can a new or returning player know what to work on to try and get into these groups? It's a major fallacy for the current role FFXI has taken.

New or returning players, which should be considered new anyways since the game has changed so much since they played, have very few options to figure out what their ideal entry gear should look like or what they should be willing to do.



There is a major difference between elitism and being prepared. You seem to compile them both into the same terminology. When people refer to elitism, they are referring to turning your nose up at someone who isn't wearing best in slot of everything OR requiring an overkill set up to clear something that was done easily and successfully with far weaker gear requirements. You referenced WoW, so to put it in an analogy, it would be like requiring MoP level and gear to clear Naxxramas. Overkill much? That's the same thing people are doing in FFXI. Let's require Oatixur MNKs and Bereaver/Senbaak DRK's to clear v1 Einherjar! This is elitism at it's core.

Making sure you have foods/meds, know the fight, and know how to play your job and expecting people in your runs to do the same is just being prepared as any good raider should be.


The answer to "WHY"? is right there in the story. I think in your attempts to blame this guy, you misunderstood the point of the post in its entirety. He had no idea what or how to reforge, about DPS rotations, gems, priorities. He had no addons like DBM or Omen or anything of that nature. People just assumed he was bad or lazy and built a reputation FOR him. The fact remains he did not know any better and instead of being understanding, you're ready to cast fault the same as the people on his server did. What makes you worse is the fact that you have all the details sitting in front of you, where as they made assumptions based on limited knowledge. You should really reread the post and take a minute to really think about it before jumping to assumptions and incorrect conclusions.

If you're not told why you are wrong, you'll never know you are wrong. In school, you take tests. You don't mark an answer because you believe you're wrong. You mark it because somewhere in your mind, that answer seemed correct. No one gets 100% correct on every test every time unless you have some miraculous photographic memory or something. Point is, he thought he was doing the best he could and unless someone, like the OP, took the time to EXPLAIN, not yell, why he was wrong and how to fix it, he had no idea he was wrong or how to fix it. Same things applies in FFXI. Maybe you should stop looking down at others around you for their gimpness, and start talking and being social and try to teach them ways to improve and help them. One day, whether in a game or real life, you will need someone's help learning something new and it would really suck if karma came back to bite you in the *** for your mentality now.

That Bluespeed fellow is a gentleman, why, I really cannot see why people avoid him like the plague.

lmfao, thanks for that Draylo.

If you would actually take the time to read these guides you'll notice there's a lot of alternatives mentioned for all level of players.

Oh I read them, and there are some alternatives gear list, with examples, but not many and not for all jobs. Some people have done some amazing guides with great examples like the COR one specifically comes to mind.

Edit: Ok, the COR one in yours lol. Just looked it up. Bang up job. Yours is the exception, but others lack the detail you put into yours.

as a disclaimer, i haven't read your guide.. but i've found most of the others to be more frequently than not out of date and i've never found a set in any of them that was ideal for my own use

actually maybe i have, imma go read it anyway

I should update subs and events since /whm now is a thing meh. Hopefully with the +305309 skill it won't be asked anymore. I can hope.

By all means not all guides are perfect and some are worse than others, but you can't say there aren't people who try to help the rest of the community.

i use 2 cor/dnc not rotating instead of 2 cor/whm rotating and let my drg use a real sub

but that's just me~

I just did my first Tojil run on COR this past Monday. It was a nightmare lol. This guy was NOT meant to do rotations. I accidentally hit my drop macro like 5-6 times during the run instead of my Haste macro ><. I was COR/WHM keeping 2 people Hasted and doing Hunter/Rogue in one group then swapping to do Fighter/Chaos in the other. Also tossing out the random cures whenever needed and random Evoker's on whatever WHM was in my group when I could afford it.

I've been using Sehachan's guide for attempting to gear my COR, that's why it came to mind before lol.

The question has never been whether people are trying to help the community. The question is whether people have enough resources available to get by without any help.

These guides are hardly public knowledge, even as far as the forums go XIAH is one of the smaller ones isn't it? Reading a guide generally won't fully prepare anyone either, without understanding what gear exists, where it comes from, how to assemble their own sets.. you're still pretty in the dark. Like I said, I've never found a set in one of those guides(or even an alternatives reference) that amounted to the best dps for the gear available to me personally.

Here's some further food for thought. Player warnings and/or racism, instant topicban. Carry on.

Easy chief, you clicked on the link yourself, you aren't subjected to any racism outside your own will. Like, I'm jus' saying.

Impossible to list every possible gearset combination, but good guides will list alternative gear pieces and which situations to use the important ones in somewhere as well. Helps nudge people in the right direction when making gear decisions, "guides" them. Some levels of stupid can't be fixed though, there'll be people who see they have 40% ACC and continue to TP in a non-acc set 'cause "it has better deeps".

I'm not talking about the benefit of guides, at all. I'm just saying that there are plenty of reasons that intelligent players have less than intelligent choices on. Personal assistance can be extremely helpful in many cases.

Naa, wiped on Tojil twice lol. I've yet to get a winning run that I haven't paid for. My job combinations never seem to match what the shouts are looking for. :p

Like there's a Tojil shout building right now, looking for Oatixur MNK, GEO with capped skills (mine are only about 280ish, a work in progress) and RDM w/ Mata experience. I have MNK GEO and RDM 99, but no Oat's, GEO skill isn't capped, and my RDM gear would make you cry. :p

Prime example of the problem.
"Need this win? Better already have the gear you get for winning"

I was thinking it, but figured it was rather obvious of the fallacy. I'm a Rigor Black Belt MNK and that wouldn't be good enough for a run to try for the Oat's :p

On a side note to this, the MNK standing next to me by West Adoulin MH has Oatixurs and Brown Belt. GG mates.