Nocki said: »
People don't know French aparently.
ARME Weapons
ARME Weapons
NIN: Heishi Shorinken > Kannagi = Kikoku > Nagi
DRG: Trishula > Ryunohuge > Rhongomiant = Gungnir
COR: Death Penalty = Armageddon = Fomalhaut
PUP: Godhands = Kenkonken > Verethragna
RUN: Lionheart > Epeolatry
GEO: Idris = Tishtrya
Edited a section of the original post.
NIN: Agreed.
DRG: Trishula is extremely powerful and I actually rank it higher than Ryunohige for sheer damage output, if not by much.
COR: Death Penalty suffers when the target is resistant to magic or Darkness element. Armageddon likewise. Fomalhaut has utility so I put all three on par with each other for situational use.
PUP: Ohtas is actually PUP's best weapon for Hybrid fighting. Godhands are best when using a mage Automaton. Kenkonken's +50 Martial Arts actually hurts the PUP when they are capped magic Haste, which they will be.
RUN: Epeolatry is not needed for endgame tanking, it is not worth it's price tag when you could get an Idris. Lionheart is god-tier for dealing damage and you really see why DRK or WAR are not on it when you start using it, as nobody would make a Ragnarok if they were.
GEO: Idris is god-tier for the purpose of the job, but it can be swapped out when Indi and Geo-spells are on and if the GEO wants to whack stuff with the Tishtrya.
DRG: Trishula > Ryunohuge > Rhongomiant = Gungnir
COR: Death Penalty = Armageddon = Fomalhaut
PUP: Godhands = Kenkonken > Verethragna
RUN: Lionheart > Epeolatry
GEO: Idris = Tishtrya
Edited a section of the original post.
NIN: Agreed.
DRG: Trishula is extremely powerful and I actually rank it higher than Ryunohige for sheer damage output, if not by much.
COR: Death Penalty suffers when the target is resistant to magic or Darkness element. Armageddon likewise. Fomalhaut has utility so I put all three on par with each other for situational use.
PUP: Ohtas is actually PUP's best weapon for Hybrid fighting. Godhands are best when using a mage Automaton. Kenkonken's +50 Martial Arts actually hurts the PUP when they are capped magic Haste, which they will be.
RUN: Epeolatry is not needed for endgame tanking, it is not worth it's price tag when you could get an Idris. Lionheart is god-tier for dealing damage and you really see why DRK or WAR are not on it when you start using it, as nobody would make a Ragnarok if they were.
GEO: Idris is god-tier for the purpose of the job, but it can be swapped out when Indi and Geo-spells are on and if the GEO wants to whack stuff with the Tishtrya.
Cool Idea.
Can anyone take this a step further and make a DD Job Tier list? Just to provide a general idea of the game's current rankings.
One thing I've always noticed in other communities (like Fighting games and such) is they love to create rankings based on top tier play. I have yet to see one of these lists created for ffxi in the 10+ years I've been playing. Just speculative commentary about which job "owns right now".
I'm basically looking for a DD tier list that assumes:
1) Best gear in the game possible for that job
2) Best possible party buffs (so everyone has capped haste, whatever Geomancy/Songs would give, and their native buffs)
I know there'd be a huge deal of arguing, but in all truthfulness, it'd be great to see specifically where jobs rank amongst the others in DPS/DOT. It's an interesting discussion in list format. True, its not an "end all, be all", but it gives a general overview of strength in comparison.
If one is already created and is current, howveer, could someone point me to that source? Basically looking for something that summarizes each job (like the job specific forum pages) and ranks them accordingly from potential strongest to weakest.
Can anyone take this a step further and make a DD Job Tier list? Just to provide a general idea of the game's current rankings.
One thing I've always noticed in other communities (like Fighting games and such) is they love to create rankings based on top tier play. I have yet to see one of these lists created for ffxi in the 10+ years I've been playing. Just speculative commentary about which job "owns right now".
I'm basically looking for a DD tier list that assumes:
1) Best gear in the game possible for that job
2) Best possible party buffs (so everyone has capped haste, whatever Geomancy/Songs would give, and their native buffs)
I know there'd be a huge deal of arguing, but in all truthfulness, it'd be great to see specifically where jobs rank amongst the others in DPS/DOT. It's an interesting discussion in list format. True, its not an "end all, be all", but it gives a general overview of strength in comparison.
If one is already created and is current, howveer, could someone point me to that source? Basically looking for something that summarizes each job (like the job specific forum pages) and ranks them accordingly from potential strongest to weakest.
Ruaumoko said: »
RUN: Epeolatry is not needed for endgame tanking, it is not worth it's price tag when you could get an Idris. Lionheart is god-tier for dealing damage and you really see why DRK or WAR are not on it when you start using it, as nobody would make a Ragnarok if they were.
Don't have one, but in the process of making it. Can you explain what is so good about it for RUN? Have never seen it in action.
I feel like the majority of the list only talks terms of dps and ignores utility.
AG Apoc is far from just an A tier, I have kept on par many times over with AG apoc against AG rag, especially in zerg fights that last less than 90 seconds, mostly due to zero need to build AM at all on apoc on short fights. The weapon has also saved my *** more times than I can count. Many occasions rag and apoc can leave lib in the dust. Lib still lacks acc and has a need for AM3, where as apoc only needs AM1 when LR is down, and rag blows lib out of the water.
As for murg on rdm, dps wise almace clearly wins, but the m. Acc, plus death blossom, plus am2 puts murg light years ahead of any other option for enfeebles (not counting frazzle 3, however if you lack m. Acc in your 3 set while focusing more on skill for potency of frazzle 3, pop a frazzle 2 with murg to land then use 3 for potency) and on several occasions nukes, for high tier mobs with high m.eva
AG Apoc is far from just an A tier, I have kept on par many times over with AG apoc against AG rag, especially in zerg fights that last less than 90 seconds, mostly due to zero need to build AM at all on apoc on short fights. The weapon has also saved my *** more times than I can count. Many occasions rag and apoc can leave lib in the dust. Lib still lacks acc and has a need for AM3, where as apoc only needs AM1 when LR is down, and rag blows lib out of the water.
As for murg on rdm, dps wise almace clearly wins, but the m. Acc, plus death blossom, plus am2 puts murg light years ahead of any other option for enfeebles (not counting frazzle 3, however if you lack m. Acc in your 3 set while focusing more on skill for potency of frazzle 3, pop a frazzle 2 with murg to land then use 3 for potency) and on several occasions nukes, for high tier mobs with high m.eva
Josiahkf said: »
why would they? it's only the 14th most spoken language on earth.
Who cares about the French?
Given Nocki's explanation I like "ARME" better but "RMEA" also works given their release.
Also Tier lists will always be opinion based and everyone needs to respect that.
Likewise, I think Tier lists become even better when one establishes their opinion and then alters the tier list based on others feed back. For the longest time LoL did a great job of this (Elementz lists).
Also Tier lists will always be opinion based and everyone needs to respect that.
Likewise, I think Tier lists become even better when one establishes their opinion and then alters the tier list based on others feed back. For the longest time LoL did a great job of this (Elementz lists).
Ruaumoko said: »
NIN: Heishi Shorinken > Kannagi = Kikoku > Nagi
DRG: Trishula > Ryunohuge > Rhongomiant = Gungnir
COR: Death Penalty = Armageddon = Fomalhaut
PUP: Godhands = Kenkonken > Verethragna
RUN: Lionheart > Epeolatry
GEO: Idris = Tishtrya
Edited a section of the original post.
NIN: Agreed.
DRG: Trishula is extremely powerful and I actually rank it higher than Ryunohige for sheer damage output, if not by much.
COR: Death Penalty suffers when the target is resistant to magic or Darkness element. Armageddon likewise. Fomalhaut has utility so I put all three on par with each other for situational use.
PUP: Ohtas is actually PUP's best weapon for Hybrid fighting. Godhands are best when using a mage Automaton. Kenkonken's +50 Martial Arts actually hurts the PUP when they are capped magic Haste, which they will be.
RUN: Epeolatry is not needed for endgame tanking, it is not worth it's price tag when you could get an Idris. Lionheart is god-tier for dealing damage and you really see why DRK or WAR are not on it when you start using it, as nobody would make a Ragnarok if they were.
GEO: Idris is god-tier for the purpose of the job, but it can be swapped out when Indi and Geo-spells are on and if the GEO wants to whack stuff with the Tishtrya.
DRG: Trishula > Ryunohuge > Rhongomiant = Gungnir
COR: Death Penalty = Armageddon = Fomalhaut
PUP: Godhands = Kenkonken > Verethragna
RUN: Lionheart > Epeolatry
GEO: Idris = Tishtrya
Edited a section of the original post.
NIN: Agreed.
DRG: Trishula is extremely powerful and I actually rank it higher than Ryunohige for sheer damage output, if not by much.
COR: Death Penalty suffers when the target is resistant to magic or Darkness element. Armageddon likewise. Fomalhaut has utility so I put all three on par with each other for situational use.
PUP: Ohtas is actually PUP's best weapon for Hybrid fighting. Godhands are best when using a mage Automaton. Kenkonken's +50 Martial Arts actually hurts the PUP when they are capped magic Haste, which they will be.
RUN: Epeolatry is not needed for endgame tanking, it is not worth it's price tag when you could get an Idris. Lionheart is god-tier for dealing damage and you really see why DRK or WAR are not on it when you start using it, as nobody would make a Ragnarok if they were.
GEO: Idris is god-tier for the purpose of the job, but it can be swapped out when Indi and Geo-spells are on and if the GEO wants to whack stuff with the Tishtrya.
For geo in particular I would heavily disagree with that = for two reasons. 1. It assumes that they are interchangeable and/or individually situational which is not the case. By meleeing on geo (assuming that the content requires actual accuracy gear) you're already giving up pet regen gear and switching out of Idris also makes you lose pet DT as well. On top of Idris having better melee TP gain with AM up than aeonic club.
2. Your assumption of using tish to melee still includes Idris in it for pre-buff bubbles. Which one could argue that in order for Tish to be a viable melee option you need Idris anyway.
Similarly for RUN, you claim that Epeo is not needed for tanking. Which, these days admittedly it is not but for master trial, intense ambu, and a couple of the Reisen T4s it dfinitely contributes quite a lot by allowing RUN to have more PDT than a pld can. Because RUN will more often be used for these situations I would still rank Epeo more than Lionheart. I understand that your point is, gaining epeo doesn't make you able to tank while gaining Lionheart does make you able to DD but the times RUN DDs is not many.
PUP I can understand where you're coming from, KKK isn't as great as it was before 1200JP was accessible. I also don't think DRG empy is that low. Maybe trish > ryuno = rhongo
Another thing I was condiering with the guns is QD on DP along with the bullets from each gun. You would still use DPs bullets with Arma, or Fomalhauts bullets with DP also depending on what you're doing.
Or people could try to learn what makes a weapon or item useful, and when and how it works best over the alternatives. There's more significance in analyzing a weapon's performance to a person's playstyle and strategy instead of their opinion.
[+]
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Or people could try to learn what makes a weapon or item useful, and when and how it works best over the alternatives. There's more significance in analyzing a weapon's performance to a person's playstyle and strategy instead of their opinion.
The tier list was/is supposed to represent the weapon's performance in the current common meta.
While the job list is essentially a DPS comparison.
Ruaumoko said: »
NIN: Heishi Shorinken > Kannagi = Kikoku > Nagi
DRG: Trishula > Ryunohuge > Rhongomiant = Gungnir
COR: Death Penalty = Armageddon = Fomalhaut
PUP: Godhands = Kenkonken > Verethragna
RUN: Lionheart > Epeolatry
GEO: Idris = Tishtrya
Edited a section of the original post.
NIN: Agreed.
DRG: Trishula is extremely powerful and I actually rank it higher than Ryunohige for sheer damage output, if not by much.
COR: Death Penalty suffers when the target is resistant to magic or Darkness element. Armageddon likewise. Fomalhaut has utility so I put all three on par with each other for situational use.
PUP: Ohtas is actually PUP's best weapon for Hybrid fighting. Godhands are best when using a mage Automaton. Kenkonken's +50 Martial Arts actually hurts the PUP when they are capped magic Haste, which they will be.
RUN: Epeolatry is not needed for endgame tanking, it is not worth it's price tag when you could get an Idris. Lionheart is god-tier for dealing damage and you really see why DRK or WAR are not on it when you start using it, as nobody would make a Ragnarok if they were.
GEO: Idris is god-tier for the purpose of the job, but it can be swapped out when Indi and Geo-spells are on and if the GEO wants to whack stuff with the Tishtrya.
DRG: Trishula > Ryunohuge > Rhongomiant = Gungnir
COR: Death Penalty = Armageddon = Fomalhaut
PUP: Godhands = Kenkonken > Verethragna
RUN: Lionheart > Epeolatry
GEO: Idris = Tishtrya
Edited a section of the original post.
NIN: Agreed.
DRG: Trishula is extremely powerful and I actually rank it higher than Ryunohige for sheer damage output, if not by much.
COR: Death Penalty suffers when the target is resistant to magic or Darkness element. Armageddon likewise. Fomalhaut has utility so I put all three on par with each other for situational use.
PUP: Ohtas is actually PUP's best weapon for Hybrid fighting. Godhands are best when using a mage Automaton. Kenkonken's +50 Martial Arts actually hurts the PUP when they are capped magic Haste, which they will be.
RUN: Epeolatry is not needed for endgame tanking, it is not worth it's price tag when you could get an Idris. Lionheart is god-tier for dealing damage and you really see why DRK or WAR are not on it when you start using it, as nobody would make a Ragnarok if they were.
GEO: Idris is god-tier for the purpose of the job, but it can be swapped out when Indi and Geo-spells are on and if the GEO wants to whack stuff with the Tishtrya.
Biased towards aeonic.
Also OP clearly said its considering endgame meta from an endgame players perspective, and original Reddit question also emphasis on endgame usefulness. OP also doesn't consider difficulty nor the cost to obtain the the weapon. In that case epeo > lionheart since no one brings DD RUN to endgame afaik. Same goes for GEO club meleeing, or COR with Fomalhaut and Armageddon. Epeo, DP and Idris are far more useful to an endgame LS than lionheart, Armageddon, Fomalhaut or tishtrya unless your ls do events differently.
Nocki said: »
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Or people could try to learn what makes a weapon or item useful, and when and how it works best over the alternatives. There's more significance in analyzing a weapon's performance to a person's playstyle and strategy instead of their opinion.
The tier list was/is supposed to represent the weapon's performance in the current common meta.
While the job list is essentially a DPS comparison.
If someone asks "what job should I level" or "what weapon should I make", they need to first ask themselves "how do you want to play the game" and "what roles do you want to fill".
[+]
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Nocki said: »
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Or people could try to learn what makes a weapon or item useful, and when and how it works best over the alternatives. There's more significance in analyzing a weapon's performance to a person's playstyle and strategy instead of their opinion.
The tier list was/is supposed to represent the weapon's performance in the current common meta.
While the job list is essentially a DPS comparison.
If someone asks "what job should I level" or "what weapon should I make", they need to first ask themselves "how do you want to play the game" and "what roles do you want to fill".
If I remember correctly, the original Reddit question was which weapon is more useful for endgame...or something like that. And that person didn't want answers like "build weapons for jobs that you love"
Since most LS still do woc and T4 with blm death setup DP is far more useful, because leaden salute darkness sc and QD dps.
If your ls do T4 with RNG setup maybe Arma would be useful for extra racc and beastly AM3 white dmg, but I don't know many groups out there uses RNG setup for T4.
Fomalhaut may have a use for melee cor if your ls do T4 with 2 blu meleeing, since you'll get way more attack buffs for physical ws in such setup, while magical ws may be resisted like hell without macc buffs and macc food. However last stand has been underperform on very high lv content from my past experience due to the lack of song slots for prelude, thus harder to hit etc. I kinda doubt Fomalhaut would do any meaningful dmg in melee setup on T4 unless someone prove me wrong.
In other words I just don't see how Fomalhaut and Armageddon can rival DPs usefulness in endgame unless someone else with experience doing T4 with non mage setup has different opinion.
(Or unless someone make a melee or rng pt and invite me to play with other 2 weapons :))
That being said, I do agree that career cor should get all 3 legendary weapons and TP bonus magian if that's what people are asking. But if only picking one weapon for endgame I would recommend DP.
Ruaumoko said:
GEO: Idris = Tishtrya
lol
[+]
@Jeanpaul
I was just having this conversation with Snaps over PMs since he was the only one who basically expressed that this information wasn't able to be empirically tested. Mostly due to how situational each weapon can be, weapon type preferences for the jobs that have multiple, some innate misrepresentations of spreadsheets, and playstyle biases. That being said, what do you think should be changed in order to accomodate what you're suggesting?
I was just having this conversation with Snaps over PMs since he was the only one who basically expressed that this information wasn't able to be empirically tested. Mostly due to how situational each weapon can be, weapon type preferences for the jobs that have multiple, some innate misrepresentations of spreadsheets, and playstyle biases. That being said, what do you think should be changed in order to accomodate what you're suggesting?
Afania said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
NIN: Heishi Shorinken > Kannagi = Kikoku > Nagi
DRG: Trishula > Ryunohuge > Rhongomiant = Gungnir
COR: Death Penalty = Armageddon = Fomalhaut
PUP: Godhands = Kenkonken > Verethragna
RUN: Lionheart > Epeolatry
GEO: Idris = Tishtrya
Edited a section of the original post.
NIN: Agreed.
DRG: Trishula is extremely powerful and I actually rank it higher than Ryunohige for sheer damage output, if not by much.
COR: Death Penalty suffers when the target is resistant to magic or Darkness element. Armageddon likewise. Fomalhaut has utility so I put all three on par with each other for situational use.
PUP: Ohtas is actually PUP's best weapon for Hybrid fighting. Godhands are best when using a mage Automaton. Kenkonken's +50 Martial Arts actually hurts the PUP when they are capped magic Haste, which they will be.
RUN: Epeolatry is not needed for endgame tanking, it is not worth it's price tag when you could get an Idris. Lionheart is god-tier for dealing damage and you really see why DRK or WAR are not on it when you start using it, as nobody would make a Ragnarok if they were.
GEO: Idris is god-tier for the purpose of the job, but it can be swapped out when Indi and Geo-spells are on and if the GEO wants to whack stuff with the Tishtrya.
DRG: Trishula > Ryunohuge > Rhongomiant = Gungnir
COR: Death Penalty = Armageddon = Fomalhaut
PUP: Godhands = Kenkonken > Verethragna
RUN: Lionheart > Epeolatry
GEO: Idris = Tishtrya
Edited a section of the original post.
NIN: Agreed.
DRG: Trishula is extremely powerful and I actually rank it higher than Ryunohige for sheer damage output, if not by much.
COR: Death Penalty suffers when the target is resistant to magic or Darkness element. Armageddon likewise. Fomalhaut has utility so I put all three on par with each other for situational use.
PUP: Ohtas is actually PUP's best weapon for Hybrid fighting. Godhands are best when using a mage Automaton. Kenkonken's +50 Martial Arts actually hurts the PUP when they are capped magic Haste, which they will be.
RUN: Epeolatry is not needed for endgame tanking, it is not worth it's price tag when you could get an Idris. Lionheart is god-tier for dealing damage and you really see why DRK or WAR are not on it when you start using it, as nobody would make a Ragnarok if they were.
GEO: Idris is god-tier for the purpose of the job, but it can be swapped out when Indi and Geo-spells are on and if the GEO wants to whack stuff with the Tishtrya.
Biased towards aeonic.
Also OP clearly said its considering endgame meta from an endgame players perspective, and original Reddit question also emphasis on endgame usefulness. OP also doesn't consider difficulty nor the cost to obtain the the weapon. In that case epeo > lionheart since no one brings DD RUN to endgame afaik. Same goes for GEO club meleeing, or COR with Fomalhaut and Armageddon. Epeo, DP and Idris are far more useful to an endgame LS than lionheart, Armageddon, Fomalhaut or tishtrya unless your ls do events differently.
https://www.twitch.tv/sassyjimberly/v/87245475
[+]
Updating SMN list
SMN: Nirvana > Hvergelmir > Claustrum > Khatvanga
From a utility standpoint, Nirvana is still quite strong in it's 3 main aspects, afterglow, bloodpact damage for phys pacts, and -perp.
Hver afterglow now has that 50 fastcast, which frees up slots for potential precast setup like a capped fastcast/quickcast/spell interrupt set.
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/346057
Claustrum has pet acc now, but is ultimately moot, since it has nothing else to bring.
khat is a pretty lockstyle piece.
SMN: Nirvana > Hvergelmir > Claustrum > Khatvanga
From a utility standpoint, Nirvana is still quite strong in it's 3 main aspects, afterglow, bloodpact damage for phys pacts, and -perp.
Hver afterglow now has that 50 fastcast, which frees up slots for potential precast setup like a capped fastcast/quickcast/spell interrupt set.
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/346057
Claustrum has pet acc now, but is ultimately moot, since it has nothing else to bring.
khat is a pretty lockstyle piece.
spell interrupt is processed at the time you get hit, so completely useless in precast
smn can already cap FC and quick magic with this set:
ItemSet 338741
+ a fc grioavolr and nq clerisy strap if not subbing rdm
would say hvergel is also completely useless
smn can already cap FC and quick magic with this set:
ItemSet 338741
+ a fc grioavolr and nq clerisy strap if not subbing rdm
would say hvergel is also completely useless
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
spell interrupt is processed at the time you get hit, so completely useless in precast
smn can already cap FC and quick magic with this set:
ItemSet 338741
+ a fc grioavolr and nq clerisy strap
would say hvergel is also completely useless
smn can already cap FC and quick magic with this set:
ItemSet 338741
+ a fc grioavolr and nq clerisy strap
would say hvergel is also completely useless
depends, with precast/midcast gear, when does gearswap switch over, right at start of spell or somewhere in the middle?
gearswap/ashitacast send it all in one communication
precast < spell < midcast
the server isn't threaded, which means that it finishes reading the entire communication(read in precast gear, read spell start and determine casttime, read in midcast gear) before doing anything else
this makes it literally impossible to be hit in precast(which is the same reason you don't finish in precast when instant cast procs)
precast < spell < midcast
the server isn't threaded, which means that it finishes reading the entire communication(read in precast gear, read spell start and determine casttime, read in midcast gear) before doing anything else
this makes it literally impossible to be hit in precast(which is the same reason you don't finish in precast when instant cast procs)
It uses both at the same time.
wouldn't that ultimately be moot for avatar summoning since there's essentially no midcast gear that's relevant?
So keeping a capped fc/qc/spell interrupt set on for the duration ( a whopping second and a half) would be niche-useful.
So keeping a capped fc/qc/spell interrupt set on for the duration ( a whopping second and a half) would be niche-useful.
You precast in fast cast/quick cast and midcast in spell interrupt. You wouldn't need to change weapons and lose TP that way.
if you're really optimizing that far, you'd get more benefit out of making a PDT/MDT/M.eva/SiR set for midcast which puts hvergelmir back to precast inv- only
Odin.Roundelk said: »
Afania said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
NIN: Heishi Shorinken > Kannagi = Kikoku > Nagi
DRG: Trishula > Ryunohuge > Rhongomiant = Gungnir
COR: Death Penalty = Armageddon = Fomalhaut
PUP: Godhands = Kenkonken > Verethragna
RUN: Lionheart > Epeolatry
GEO: Idris = Tishtrya
Edited a section of the original post.
NIN: Agreed.
DRG: Trishula is extremely powerful and I actually rank it higher than Ryunohige for sheer damage output, if not by much.
COR: Death Penalty suffers when the target is resistant to magic or Darkness element. Armageddon likewise. Fomalhaut has utility so I put all three on par with each other for situational use.
PUP: Ohtas is actually PUP's best weapon for Hybrid fighting. Godhands are best when using a mage Automaton. Kenkonken's +50 Martial Arts actually hurts the PUP when they are capped magic Haste, which they will be.
RUN: Epeolatry is not needed for endgame tanking, it is not worth it's price tag when you could get an Idris. Lionheart is god-tier for dealing damage and you really see why DRK or WAR are not on it when you start using it, as nobody would make a Ragnarok if they were.
GEO: Idris is god-tier for the purpose of the job, but it can be swapped out when Indi and Geo-spells are on and if the GEO wants to whack stuff with the Tishtrya.
DRG: Trishula > Ryunohuge > Rhongomiant = Gungnir
COR: Death Penalty = Armageddon = Fomalhaut
PUP: Godhands = Kenkonken > Verethragna
RUN: Lionheart > Epeolatry
GEO: Idris = Tishtrya
Edited a section of the original post.
NIN: Agreed.
DRG: Trishula is extremely powerful and I actually rank it higher than Ryunohige for sheer damage output, if not by much.
COR: Death Penalty suffers when the target is resistant to magic or Darkness element. Armageddon likewise. Fomalhaut has utility so I put all three on par with each other for situational use.
PUP: Ohtas is actually PUP's best weapon for Hybrid fighting. Godhands are best when using a mage Automaton. Kenkonken's +50 Martial Arts actually hurts the PUP when they are capped magic Haste, which they will be.
RUN: Epeolatry is not needed for endgame tanking, it is not worth it's price tag when you could get an Idris. Lionheart is god-tier for dealing damage and you really see why DRK or WAR are not on it when you start using it, as nobody would make a Ragnarok if they were.
GEO: Idris is god-tier for the purpose of the job, but it can be swapped out when Indi and Geo-spells are on and if the GEO wants to whack stuff with the Tishtrya.
Biased towards aeonic.
Also OP clearly said its considering endgame meta from an endgame players perspective, and original Reddit question also emphasis on endgame usefulness. OP also doesn't consider difficulty nor the cost to obtain the the weapon. In that case epeo > lionheart
https://www.twitch.tv/sassyjimberly/v/87245475
Sorry, guess I should word it differently as melee in endgame isn't meta.
I actually didn't know it was all one communication. That's interesting. Spell interrupt should always be in midcast then? I take it equipsets can't work that way? What about using Hvergr midcast to reduce spell recast, say on something with a ton of recast say you're weakened so 100% slow and want to cast raise multiple times for example.
Would depend who's meta, DD RUN has been meta for months in many JP groups, one was used for Tumult Curator over 7 months ago if I'm remember dates correctly. Even different servers have their own meta, Quetz has a pet meta :P To broaden this idea to another game I once played, League of Legends had many metas, there's always differences in Korean and Western meta, and Mordekaiser iz #1 in Brasil huehhuehuehue is/was a very popular meme which probably was started for similar reasons, but at the very least recognizes regional metas (or at least that was always my interpretation).
Afania said: »
Sorry, guess I should word it differently as melee in endgame isn't meta.
Verda said: »
I actually didn't know it was all one communication. That's interesting. Spell interrupt should always be in midcast then? I take it equipsets can't work that way? What about using Hvergr midcast to reduce spell recast, say on something with a ton of recast say you're weakened so 100% slow and want to cast raise multiple times for example.
Would depend who's meta, DD RUN has been meta for months in many JP groups, one was used for Tumult Curator over 7 months ago if I'm remember dates correctly.
Afania said: »
Sorry, guess I should word it differently as melee in endgame isn't meta.
Do they melee on T4 though. Also JPs have been using DD RUN in endgame delve since 2013 while NA group totally despise it and the job weren't popular in NA community as a DD back then, kinda doubt itll change soon.
Just FYI, this is the original Reddit thread, the question was "worthwhile investment"
https://m.reddit.com/r/ffxi/comments/51njb4/current_rme_landscape/
There are tons of LS out there would consider epeo RUN or asked for epeo when recruiting, none of them ask for lionheart though. Their lionheart just comes naturally as the result of doing endgame. Would still suggest epeo over lionheart when picking first REMA for RUN if not considering the cost.
Just FYI, I've never get people ask me to build a lionheart in my life because they need someone to melee schah or PW2 and their AG DDs are not capable of doing it. While pretty much every group would look for a RUN to tank their aeonic NMs for their mage setup and they all ask for an epeo.
I'm well aware that ppl have tanked stuff with an aettir, but the fact is that currently community demands epeo way more than lionheart on RUN. In that way epeo is a more worthwhile investment.
Nocki said: »
@Jeanpaul
I was just having this conversation with Snaps over PMs since he was the only one who basically expressed that this information wasn't able to be empirically tested. Mostly due to how situational each weapon can be, weapon type preferences for the jobs that have multiple, some innate misrepresentations of spreadsheets, and playstyle biases. That being said, what do you think should be changed in order to accomodate what you're suggesting?
I was just having this conversation with Snaps over PMs since he was the only one who basically expressed that this information wasn't able to be empirically tested. Mostly due to how situational each weapon can be, weapon type preferences for the jobs that have multiple, some innate misrepresentations of spreadsheets, and playstyle biases. That being said, what do you think should be changed in order to accomodate what you're suggesting?
Afania said: »
Do they melee on T4 though. Also JPs have been using DD RUN in endgame delve since 2013 while NA group totally despise it and the job weren't popular in NA community as a DD back then, kinda doubt itll change soon.
Popularity and meta are kinda the same, but then for example in competitive games, the people in the very high levels of play make their own meta which is then copied and becomes popular, and it often takes a lot of time for this copy effect to go through till the point it's popular. A meta doesn't have to be popular to be a meta, some of the best strats aren't even popular.
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