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ARME Weapons
 Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9893
By Asura.Sechs 2016-09-09 06:52:13
That's why I wondered which instrument people prefer to lullaby with. We actually have someone asking about it in ls and a blurred harp +1 could be shared between different bards, but Daurdabla obviously cannot be, I know some will sleep with aeonic or ghorn too but other bards worry about distance, especially on albumen. Aeonic supposedly gives a very slight longer lullaby than ghorn, but I've never heard anyone say if blurred harp +1 or Daurdabala is a better lullaby duration instrument if range is your concern. The best instrument to sleep with BRD in the only 2 fights where it's currently necessary in endgame (Albumen and Vinipata) is Marsyas, followed by Gjallarhorn, on par with Blurred Harp +1
Range shouldn't be a concern with Horde Lullaby II and if monsters are too spread around for you to require a wider range sleep then:
1) Something wrong happened
2) Even with string instrument, Horde Lullaby II won't be enough range
[+]
By Rooks 2016-09-09 07:38:16
Temporarily locking while I clean up the *** drama.
[Edit: And unlocked. Behave.]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-09-09 08:17:45
[+]
 Bismarck.Arcos
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 122
By Bismarck.Arcos 2016-09-09 08:39:05
Aegis + Excalibur i121 with AM3 up and good regen gear while capping MDT/PDT/DT is going to blow Burtgang out of the water.
I'm kinda curious to know how does regen being that relevant to tanking unless you don't have a healer? If tank lose HP just cure, then cure again when more HP are lost. Not like MP is ever an issue in escha.
With AM3 in Escha and regen from vorseals, PLD can defend enough in DT gear that cures aren't as needed. It is nice in those fights that have a bunch of enemy debuffs for the WHM to be able to prioritize removing those as opposed to having to be cure heavy.
With SCH, it just becomes ridiculous. 30 HP from AM, 16 from 8/8 vorseals, however much your SCH can crank out on a Regen 5...
I do have to disagree with the statement about Aegis. Unless the NM has Meteor, Chainspell or can one shot me in MDT without Aegis, I won't use it. Haste and fast cast will lower Reprisal to the point it can be full-timed. I will use Priwen as much as I can, I love blocks!
By eliroo 2016-09-09 08:45:26
Most of the time when you use Aegis you will be fighting a mob that does mostly magic damage, in that case Burtgang won't be worth much other than an enmity piece.
At that point you would consider Brilliance but you are most likely capped on DT w/o the weapon. I would say that Excalibur AM would easily be the best for tanking at that point.
It also gives a healthy Refresh + 3, not sure how problematic MP is for PLDs for harder content or if Refresh + 3 would allow them to be more generous with their MP usage or not.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-09-09 10:16:52
The best instrument to sleep with BRD in the only 2 fights where it's currently necessary in endgame (Albumen and Vinipata) is Marsyas, followed by Gjallarhorn, on par with Blurred Harp +1
Range shouldn't be a concern with Horde Lullaby II and if monsters are too spread around for you to require a wider range sleep then:
1) Something wrong happened
2) Even with string instrument, Horde Lullaby II won't be enough range Pretty sure arcon tested and saw that string doesn't actually increase the range of lullaby. I strongly remember people touting harp as a necessity for ODS back in the day, but maybe it wasn't or it was changed somewhere down the line.
Edit: just backread a page, he probably had 0 skill
Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9893
By Asura.Sechs 2016-09-09 11:51:05
I did some very short tests with my idle gear (850 combined skill) and with another set with the most skill I could get (which is not the theoretical best possible) with 1024 combined skill.
850 Horde 1
Horn: ~3.7
Harp: ~7.9
850 Horde 2
Horn: ~3.7
Harp: ~4.7
1024 Horde 1
Horn: ~3.9
Harp: ~8,1
1024 Horde 2
Horn: ~3.8
Harp: ~4.9
It's hard to get exact and reliable values though, I wouldn't be surprised if those 8,1 and 7,9 I measured are actually both 8,0, to make an example.
Oh and the measures I took are RADIUS btw, not the diameter.
Anybody has a more reliable method to measure radius other than the one I used? (sleeping the mob, using the AoE indicator, standing on the border of the indicator with the mob as target and then write down the value reported by the Distance addon)
[+]
By Verda 2016-09-09 12:00:00
What sechs is saying is agreeing with some screenshots I was sent in PMs too, thanks for the info and testing all. Mythic with Blurred Harp +1 is what I'll recommend to anyone wanting to currently max BRD lullabies. I've been told on albumen, sometimes the mobs shift around a bit, and you might miss 1-2 adds. Harp just makes that problem less common. As far as regards to the OP, it makes me favor for endgame BRD mythic even more.
 Ragnarok.Flippant
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 658
By Ragnarok.Flippant 2016-09-09 16:44:05
I must have misunderstood, your original post sounds like you are saying Horde caps at 19.9.
I'm fairly certain the increments gained from skill are whole numbers (I reached a point where the difference between 803 and 805 skill brought me from 4 to 5, although it's probably 3.9 and 4.9). So all those numbers are probably just X.9.
By Creecreelo 2016-09-09 18:25:32
Afair, only String skill affects the range of Harp AoEs. This has been tested by myself and some other various Brds in the Brd forum long ago. This was before gifts were introduced so I'd be curious to see how that changes things.
 Sylph.Reain
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 396
By Sylph.Reain 2016-09-09 19:05:05
Old wiki kinda explains how it works. The values are different for debuffs though.
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/String_Instrument_Skill
Basically there isn't enough String instrument skill in the game to make Horde lullaby II huge. Or if there is it would be at the expense of duration in every slot.
You can measure size with area effect.
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/35597/you-spoony-guide-a-troubadours-libretto/26/#2896454
I'd imagine the value is in memory somewhere.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 32
By Asura.Umisame 2016-09-11 07:07:44
RMEA ordered by number of owners:
Better to check it here (EDIT: added rank list of % Upgrade ratio to ilvl 121)
If not here is the list:
RELIC RANK ilvl 121
Mandau 62
Ragnarok 47
Yoichinoyumi 37
Apocalypse 33
Kikoku 33
Annihilator 31
Excalibur 22
Amanomurakumo 17
Gungnir 9
Spharai 8
Aegis 7
Bravura 6
Guttler 4
Mjollnir 4
Gjallarhorn 3
Claustrum 0
MYTHIC RANK ilvl 121
Tizona 80
Burtgang 71
Kogarasumaru 37
Vajra 30
Death Penalty 20
Liberator 15
Ryunohige 14
Terpsichore 14
Tupsimati 14
Laevateinn 13
Yagrush 12
Carnwenhan 11
Nirvana 10
Gastraphetes 9
Aymur 6
Nagi 5
Murgleis 5
Conqueror 4
Glanzfaust 4
Kenkonken 3
EMPYREAN RANK ilvl 121
Almace 102
Twashtar 36
Ukonvasara 24
Kannagi 14
Verethragna 11
Masamune 10
Armageddon 7
Caladbolg 5
Gandiva 2
Farsha 1
Hvergelmir 1
Ochain 0
Daurdabla 0
Gambanteinn 0
Rhongomiant 0
Redemption 0
AEONIC RANK ilvl 121
Sequence 127
Aeneas 113
Fomalhaut 75
Dojikiri Yasutsuna 58
Heishi Shorinken 57
Marsyas 54
Khatvanga 47
Godhands 38
Lionheart 34
Srivatsa 33
Chango 26
Tishtrya 25
Trishula 20
Fail-Not 19
Anguta 14
Tri-edge 5
TOP WEAPONS by number of owners:
WEAPON RANK ilvl 121
Sequence 127
Aeneas 113
Almace 102
Tizona 80
Fomalhaut 75
Burtgang 71
Mandau 62
Dojikiri Yasutsuna 58
Heishi Shorinken 57
Marsyas 54
Ragnarok 47
Khatvanga 47
Godhands 38
Yoichinoyumi 37
Kogarasumaru 37
Twashtar 36
Lionheart 34
Apocalypse 33
Kikoku 33
Srivatsa 33
Annihilator 31
Vajra 30
Chango 26
Tishtrya 25
Ukonvasara 24
Excalibur 22
Death Penalty 20
Trishula 20
Fail-Not 19
Amanomurakumo 17
Liberator 15
Ryunohige 14
Terpsichore 14
Tupsimati 14
Kannagi 14
Anguta 14
Laevateinn 13
Yagrush 12
Carnwenhan 11
Verethragna 11
Nirvana 10
Masamune 10
Gungnir 9
Gastraphetes 9
Spharai 8
Aegis 7
Armageddon 7
Bravura 6
Aymur 6
Nagi 5
Murgleis 5
Caladbolg 5
Tri-edge 5
Guttler 4
Mjollnir 4
Conqueror 4
Glanzfaust 4
Gjallarhorn 3
Kenkonken 3
Gandiva 2
Farsha 1
Hvergelmir 1
Claustrum 0
Ochain 0
Daurdabla 0
Gambanteinn 0
Rhongomiant 0
Redemption 0
EDIT:
% Upgrade ratio to ilvl 121, Top 10:
WEAPON lvl 75-80 ilvl 121 Upgrade ratio to ilvl 121 %
Gastraphetes 20 9 45,00
Tizona 182 80 43,96
Vajra 94 30 31,91
Tupsimati 47 14 29,79
Death Penalty 75 20 26,67
Terpsichore 59 14 23,73
Murgleis 24 5 20,83
Laevateinn 67 13 19,40
Liberator 80 15 18,75
Nagi 32 5 15,63
[+]
Cerberus.Logical
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 76
By Cerberus.Logical 2016-09-19 11:31:48
Interesting list and data! Out of curiousity, is Gastra truly utilized enough to justify S-Rank placement on the list? I am unfamiliar with RNG these days - can someone explain why Gastra is so super? (Is it OP in niche setups alongside the likes of DP?)
By eliroo 2016-09-19 11:36:16
Niche setups. Requires a geo and a well geared RNG. With Malaise flooring Mdef though the damage it can reach is just as much as a COR can do with DP.
Pair it with a class that can remain safe and TP quickly, you have a pretty powerful weapon.
By Skjalfeirdotter 2016-09-19 11:40:59
Did SE say they were going to relabel ultimate weapons as being item level 121? If not... why are people calling them such?
Ragnarok.Kiger
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6
By Ragnarok.Kiger 2016-09-19 11:52:50
Did SE say they were going to relabel ultimate weapons as being item level 121? If not... why are people calling them such?
Because SE did a terrible job of differentiating power with the iLvl system, so in an effort to better outline the gap between an RMEA at 119 and an RMEA at 119 III/AG, people just started calling them 121s.
If that's not the reason, then I have no idea. Maybe someone else can answer better!
By Nocki 2016-09-19 12:24:57
Did SE say they were going to relabel ultimate weapons as being item level 121? If not... why are people calling them such?
I have never seen them referred to as this before now, I've mostly just seen people say 119 III or 119 AG. Although people have just mathed that 242 -> 269 is 2 levels worth of skill increase relative to other skill gaps at lower ilvls. So that's where the number 121 comes from.
By Nocki 2016-09-19 12:44:30
RMEA ordered by number of owners:
Better to check it here (EDIT: added rank list of % Upgrade ratio to ilvl 121)
If not here is the list:
RELIC RANK ilvl 121
Mandau 62
Ragnarok 47
Yoichinoyumi 37
Apocalypse 33
Kikoku 33
...
Aegis 7
MYTHIC RANK ilvl 121
Tizona 80
Burtgang 71
Kogarasumaru 37
Vajra 30
Death Penalty 20
EMPYREAN RANK ilvl 121
Almace 102
Twashtar 36
Ukonvasara 24
Kannagi 14
Verethragna 11
AEONIC RANK ilvl 121
Sequence 127
Aeneas 113
Fomalhaut 75
Dojikiri Yasutsuna 58
Heishi Shorinken 57
Marsyas 54
Khatvanga 47
Some flaws with using this data to reach any conclusions:
First of all using the term "top weapons" is already misleading because it implies that because it is the most owned it is therefore the best. I can guarantee any career THF uses Mandau the least out of all of the RME daggers.
Second: Tizona, Almace, and Sequence are all the most owned in their respective category because of the prevalence and usefulness of BLU as a job. Sequence is the most owned aeonic because if you play BLU, or want a DD sword on PLD/RDM, or are collecting all the aeonics that are at least slightly useful, then you're gonna pick this up within your 1st 3 clears. On a similar note, Khatvanga is 7th because it looks *** cool but is in no way usable as more than a for-funsies staff.
A third thing to keep in mind is ease of obtaining weapons when looking at these, as that is one of the main factors something like Mandau is so high. This also doesn't take into account the time that the 99 version of the weapon was made, since people are more inclined to just upgrade something they already had than make a completely new weapon.
Also, why is Aegis/Ghorn even in that list ...?
Just some stuff to consider when looking at the data. Not to say that my data isn't flawed in some ways as Jeanpaul and Snaps have pointed out, as it's nearly impossible to factually rank each weapon as the best or worst.
Valefor.Kiaru
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 361
By Valefor.Kiaru 2016-10-09 03:56:24
Looking at this list, I have a few questions if anyone is kind enough to answer please!
Why is Twashtar the best THF dagger now?
Why is Mandau the worst?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2666
By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2016-10-09 04:17:17
Looking at this list, I have a few questions if anyone is kind enough to answer please!
Why is Twashtar the best THF dagger now?
Why is Mandau the worst?
Twashtar is "the best" in that it's always desired. No matter what other daggers you have access to, you're going to utilize that Twashtar. If you have aeonic, offhand Twash, if you have mythic, offhand Twash. If you just using Taming Sari, you mainhand Twash. If you have a Mandau, you mainhand Twash and offhand Taming Sari, etc. So some might say aeonic or mythic is "better" than Twashtar, but when it comes to how often you utilize the weapon there is nothing that can compare.
Mandau is meh because Mercy Stroke is still crap. It's not terribly hard to keep evisceration stronger than it, the aftermath is only really good for white damage, or making sure evisceration replaces mercy stroke (so it's all somewhat counterproductive!). It's only stat gains are attack+60. Whereas you could have a Taming Sari which has STR/DEX+22, other stats+12, acc/att+20, TA+3, SB+8, etc. which blows away the faster delay of the Mandau. And if an ultimate weapon is getting beaten by a rather easy to acquire normal dagger, then...it's crap.
Server: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 751
By Creaucent Alazrin 2016-10-09 04:54:16
7 i121 Aegis and 3 i121 Ghorns? They don't have ilvl versions so that's impossible, this list seems a bit corrupted to me.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 526
By Asura.Regicide 2016-10-09 06:18:30
RMEA ordered by number of owners:
Better to check it here (EDIT: added rank list of % Upgrade ratio to ilvl 121)
If not here is the list:
RELIC RANK ilvl 121
Mandau 62
Ragnarok 47
Yoichinoyumi 37
Apocalypse 33
Kikoku 33
Annihilator 31
Excalibur 22
Amanomurakumo 17
Gungnir 9
Spharai 8
Aegis 7
Bravura 6
Guttler 4
Mjollnir 4
Gjallarhorn 3
Claustrum 0
MYTHIC RANK ilvl 121
Tizona 80
Burtgang 71
Kogarasumaru 37
Vajra 30
Death Penalty 20
Liberator 15
Ryunohige 14
Terpsichore 14
Tupsimati 14
Laevateinn 13
Yagrush 12
Carnwenhan 11
Nirvana 10
Gastraphetes 9
Aymur 6
Nagi 5
Murgleis 5
Conqueror 4
Glanzfaust 4
Kenkonken 3
EMPYREAN RANK ilvl 121
Almace 102
Twashtar 36
Ukonvasara 24
Kannagi 14
Verethragna 11
Masamune 10
Armageddon 7
Caladbolg 5
Gandiva 2
Farsha 1
Hvergelmir 1
Ochain 0
Daurdabla 0
Gambanteinn 0
Rhongomiant 0
Redemption 0
AEONIC RANK ilvl 121
Sequence 127
Aeneas 113
Fomalhaut 75
Dojikiri Yasutsuna 58
Heishi Shorinken 57
Marsyas 54
Khatvanga 47
Godhands 38
Lionheart 34
Srivatsa 33
Chango 26
Tishtrya 25
Trishula 20
Fail-Not 19
Anguta 14
Tri-edge 5
TOP WEAPONS by number of owners:
WEAPON RANK ilvl 121
Sequence 127
Aeneas 113
Almace 102
Tizona 80
Fomalhaut 75
Burtgang 71
Mandau 62
Dojikiri Yasutsuna 58
Heishi Shorinken 57
Marsyas 54
Ragnarok 47
Khatvanga 47
Godhands 38
Yoichinoyumi 37
Kogarasumaru 37
Twashtar 36
Lionheart 34
Apocalypse 33
Kikoku 33
Srivatsa 33
Annihilator 31
Vajra 30
Chango 26
Tishtrya 25
Ukonvasara 24
Excalibur 22
Death Penalty 20
Trishula 20
Fail-Not 19
Amanomurakumo 17
Liberator 15
Ryunohige 14
Terpsichore 14
Tupsimati 14
Kannagi 14
Anguta 14
Laevateinn 13
Yagrush 12
Carnwenhan 11
Verethragna 11
Nirvana 10
Masamune 10
Gungnir 9
Gastraphetes 9
Spharai 8
Aegis 7
Armageddon 7
Bravura 6
Aymur 6
Nagi 5
Murgleis 5
Caladbolg 5
Tri-edge 5
Guttler 4
Mjollnir 4
Conqueror 4
Glanzfaust 4
Gjallarhorn 3
Kenkonken 3
Gandiva 2
Farsha 1
Hvergelmir 1
Claustrum 0
Ochain 0
Daurdabla 0
Gambanteinn 0
Rhongomiant 0
Redemption 0
EDIT:
% Upgrade ratio to ilvl 121, Top 10:
WEAPON lvl 75-80 ilvl 121 Upgrade ratio to ilvl 121 %
Gastraphetes 20 9 45,00
Tizona 182 80 43,96
Vajra 94 30 31,91
Tupsimati 47 14 29,79
Death Penalty 75 20 26,67
Terpsichore 59 14 23,73
Murgleis 24 5 20,83
Laevateinn 67 13 19,40
Liberator 80 15 18,75
Nagi 32 5 15,63
figured sword
Valefor.Kiaru
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 361
By Valefor.Kiaru 2016-10-09 06:33:26
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »Looking at this list, I have a few questions if anyone is kind enough to answer please!
Why is Twashtar the best THF dagger now?
Why is Mandau the worst?
Twashtar is "the best" in that it's always desired. No matter what other daggers you have access to, you're going to utilize that Twashtar. If you have aeonic, offhand Twash, if you have mythic, offhand Twash. If you just using Taming Sari, you mainhand Twash. If you have a Mandau, you mainhand Twash and offhand Taming Sari, etc. So some might say aeonic or mythic is "better" than Twashtar, but when it comes to how often you utilize the weapon there is nothing that can compare.
Mandau is meh because Mercy Stroke is still crap. It's not terribly hard to keep evisceration stronger than it, the aftermath is only really good for white damage, or making sure evisceration replaces mercy stroke (so it's all somewhat counterproductive!). It's only stat gains are attack+60. Whereas you could have a Taming Sari which has STR/DEX+22, other stats+12, acc/att+20, TA+3, SB+8, etc. which blows away the faster delay of the Mandau. And if an ultimate weapon is getting beaten by a rather easy to acquire normal dagger, then...it's crap. Thanks a lot!
Last time I played Evis was only used in abyssea, you used externator thingy outside of it unless SA/TA then you used Mercy stroke.
I peruse reddit as often as FFXIAH pretty much, and someone asked which RMEA were viable these days. So, I decided to make a tier list...
God-Tier:
GEO: Idris
S-Tier:
WAR: Ragnarok, Ukonvasara
THF: Twashtar
WHM: Yagrush
PLD: Aegis > Burtgang
DRK: Ragnarok, Liberator
BST: Aymur
BRD: Gjallarhorn > Marsyas
RNG: Gastraphetes
SAM: Masamune
NIN: Heishi Shorinken > Kannagi
DRG: Ryunohige > Trishula
SMN: Nirvana
BLU: Almace > Tizona
COR: Death Penalty
PUP: Kenkonken
DNC: Terpsichore > Twashtar
RUN: Epeolatry
A-Tier:
WAR: Chango = Conqueror
THF: Vajra > Aeneas
MNK: Godhands > Verethragna
WHM: Gambanteinn
BLM: Laevatinn
PLD: Ochain
DRK: Apocalypse = Anguta
BRD: Carnwenhan > Daurdabla
RNG: Gandiva > Yoichi, Fomalhaut > Annihilator
SAM: Dojikiri Yasutsuna > Kogarasumaru
NIN: Kikoku
BLU: Sequence
COR: Armageddon = Fomalhaut
PUP: Godhands
DNC: Aeneas
SCH: Tupsimati
RUN: Lionheart
B-Tier:
WAR: Farsha
MNK: Spharai > Glanzfaust
RDM: Murgleis
BLM: Hvegelmir
PLD: Srivatsa
DRK: Caladbolg
RNG: Fail-Not
SAM: Amano
SMN: Claustrum
SCH: Hvegelmir
Everything else is pretty bleh... This list considers job usefulness in the current meta, along with how much the weapon contributes to the job itself. Idris is God-Tier because it affects literally the entire party and essentially delvls anything you're fighting. Anything that is S-Tier I would recommend having if you take the job seriously, anything A-Tier is situationally good, B-Tier will still beat out non-269 weapons in most cases, and anything else will lose to well augmented reisen weapon or is too situational to even matter.
If you disagree with the placement of anything, or think I forgot something I'm curious about other people's opinions of the weapons. Please avoid turning this thread into anything negative about other people or their individual weapon decisions, genuinely just curious what y'all think!
Things we don't need to consider: Difficulty of obtaining the weapon/price
Things we should consider: Overall usefulness of the weapon, if you have x weapon would you still aim to get something better?
All ARME Weapons Format:
WAR: Ukonvasara > Ragnarok > Chango = Conqueror > Farsha > Bravura
THF: Twashtar > Vajra = Aeneas > Mandau
MNK: Godhands > Verethragna > Spharai > Glanzfaust
WHM: Yagrush > Gambentinn > Tishtrya > Mjollnir
RDM: Almace > Murgleis = Sequence > Excalibur
BLM: Laevatinn > Hvergelmir > Khatvanga > Claustrum
PLD: Aegis > Burtgang > Ochain > Sequence > Almace = Srivatsa > Ragnarok > Caladbolg > Excalibur
DRK: Ragnarok = Liberator > Apocalypse > Caladbolg = Anguta > Redemption
BST: Aymur > Guttler > Farsha = Tri-Edge
BRD: Gjallarhorn > Marsyas > Carnwenhan > Daurdabla > Twashtar > Mandau
RNG: Gastrophedes > Gandiva > Fail-Not = Yoichinoyumi = Armageddon = Fomalhaut = Annihilator
SAM: Masamune > Dojikiri Yasutsuna > Kogarasumaru > Amanomurakumo
NIN: Heishi Shorinken > Kannagi = Kikoku > Nagi
DRG: Ryunohige = Trishula > Rhongomiant = Gungnir
SMN: Nirvana > Hvergelmir = Claustrum > Khatvanga
BLU: Almace > Tizona = Sequence
COR: Death Penalty > Armageddon = Fomalhaut
PUP: Kenkonken > Godhands > Verethragna
DNC: Terpsichore > Twashtar > Aeneas
SCH: Tupsimati > Hvergelmir > Khatvanga
RUN: Epeolatry > Lionheart
GEO: Idris > Tishtrya
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