Best Star-Trek Captain?
Best Star-Trek Captain?
GALAXY QUEST NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lakshmi.Flavin said: »
By the by Olmos is terrible.
Zoot Suit, Selena, Menendez Brothers, Mi Familia, The West Wing, Miami Vice. But he's probably most famous for Stand and Deliver. Amazing actor.
Back to the scifi stuff...
Firefly... i stand by my statement and so does Fox Network lolz
TNG love the show. except season 2. I didnt like the season just cause they temporarily replaced Dr. Crusher
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Ex-girlfriend was a closet trekkie, so I got to watch Star Trek: TNG, DS9 and Voyager start to finish. Watched the original series on my own time, she hated Kirk. I can understand why. I liked TNG the best cuz it had a kirk of sorts in Riker, but then introduced a captain that behaved like one in Picard. Did anyone link the Family Guy line where Stewie starts with "picard has it all over kirk.." cuz they really should. Sums picard up well.
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#1 Sisko. He is the best Captain, he knows where the line lies for the Prime Directive, and he is willing to abandon it when logic dictates it. He will not needlessly endanger his crew, and he gets ***done(See: In the Pale Moonlight) As a Character he has arguably the most(and best) development, and as an actor he really does do a superb job. The worst part of DS9 was the Bajorans...if you don't believe me just remember "KOSTA MOJEN".
#2 Picard. He is a very close second, but Picard was staunchly devoted to the ideals of the Federation and loathe to abandon them, regardless of the consequences. You can probably count on one hand how many times Picard bends the rules. He was an amazing actor though, and that helps boost him to near-Sisko levels imho.
Everyone else is a distance third, but I'd like to comment on Janeway.
She gets a lot of hate for good reason. In a show full of unremarkable characters, often boring story arcs, and plot holes(Dinosaurs and Amelia Earhart...IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE, to name a few), it was her job to make the show worth watching, she failed. Her character developed slowly, was unlovable, and apparently hated her crew. She only obeys the Prime Directive if it endangers or otherwise disadvantages her crew, stranding them in the Delta Quadrant in the first place, but she also abandons it to throw Voyager into the middle of Inter-Species wars at the drop of a hat, yet episodes later cites the prime directive as a reason for not taking advantage of a method for her crew to get home.
She abandons technology with no reason other than "it didn't work the first time". There are multiple instances in the show where they try to iron out a kink in some Super-Drive that will get them home in a month. But it fails to worth during the initial shake-down. So instead of attempting to fix the problem they drop it as "being too dangerous" and move right the hell on. Its infuriating.
And as someone who watched and enjoyed TNG, and was a enough of a nerd about it to understand the POWER of a Galaxy Class ship, the fact that Janeway takes on the Borg as often and she does and by the end of the series is flat-out Slaughtering them is laughable at best. The Enterprise was *barely* able to withstand the assault of a single Cube, but Janeway is apparently able to survive an attack from *multiple spheres* in a vessel designed for Science? It made...and still makes, no sense.
#2 Picard. He is a very close second, but Picard was staunchly devoted to the ideals of the Federation and loathe to abandon them, regardless of the consequences. You can probably count on one hand how many times Picard bends the rules. He was an amazing actor though, and that helps boost him to near-Sisko levels imho.
Everyone else is a distance third, but I'd like to comment on Janeway.
She gets a lot of hate for good reason. In a show full of unremarkable characters, often boring story arcs, and plot holes(Dinosaurs and Amelia Earhart...IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE, to name a few), it was her job to make the show worth watching, she failed. Her character developed slowly, was unlovable, and apparently hated her crew. She only obeys the Prime Directive if it endangers or otherwise disadvantages her crew, stranding them in the Delta Quadrant in the first place, but she also abandons it to throw Voyager into the middle of Inter-Species wars at the drop of a hat, yet episodes later cites the prime directive as a reason for not taking advantage of a method for her crew to get home.
She abandons technology with no reason other than "it didn't work the first time". There are multiple instances in the show where they try to iron out a kink in some Super-Drive that will get them home in a month. But it fails to worth during the initial shake-down. So instead of attempting to fix the problem they drop it as "being too dangerous" and move right the hell on. Its infuriating.
And as someone who watched and enjoyed TNG, and was a enough of a nerd about it to understand the POWER of a Galaxy Class ship, the fact that Janeway takes on the Borg as often and she does and by the end of the series is flat-out Slaughtering them is laughable at best. The Enterprise was *barely* able to withstand the assault of a single Cube, but Janeway is apparently able to survive an attack from *multiple spheres* in a vessel designed for Science? It made...and still makes, no sense.
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Josiahkf said: »
annika don't post it. you know the image I'm refering to. don't do it.
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Yo dawg, I'm happy for you and I'm gonna let you finish, but Star Wars has the best cast of all time.
You mad?
You mad?
The technology you're speaking of,t he quantam slip stream drive, was too dangerous, it DID kill them all, minus Chakotay and Kim. This isn't necessarily a past erased either, it's legacy lived on, even though the past had been changed. She risked it, and it got every one killed once, then the next time, they were saved through a temporal paradox.. She pushed her luck once and did regret it, or almost did, depending on how you want to look at it, when you get into paradoxes, both of those events did happen... They were just lucky they were saved by a much older Kim, and he even sent back a letter to say as much. You can't really blame her when she didn't just try to iron out the kinks.. It's one thing when you chance using such a thing based on math and holodecks.. It's another when what was predicted to happen, does happen, and through some huge stroke of luck, you're still around to regret using it in the first place.
I think people are far too critical of Voyager and Janeway, but not because of any reasons I've really seen listed yet.. It was just different. How anyone could like DS9 and then turn around and hate Voyager is beyond me.. I'd rather watch TOS than DS9.. It's just so slow and boring..
I think people simply dislike Voyager in general simply because it's not a cookie cut Star Trek where everything is all the same, just new people and new story lines.
I think people are far too critical of Voyager and Janeway, but not because of any reasons I've really seen listed yet.. It was just different. How anyone could like DS9 and then turn around and hate Voyager is beyond me.. I'd rather watch TOS than DS9.. It's just so slow and boring..
I think people simply dislike Voyager in general simply because it's not a cookie cut Star Trek where everything is all the same, just new people and new story lines.
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none of these shows has Ed O'neal in it
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: »
I think people simply dislike Voyager in general simply because it's not a cookie cut Star Trek where everything is all the same, just new people and new story lines.
I really do agree. Like i had posted it really baffles me people in this thread bashing Voyager/Janeway but trekkies on the official site and facebook list it as their 2nd fave star trek next to TNG.
Phoenix.Ardiem said: »
Everyone else is a distance third, but I'd like to comment on Janeway.
She gets a lot of hate for good reason. In a show full of unremarkable characters, often boring story arcs, and plot holes(Dinosaurs and Amelia Earhart...IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE, to name a few), it was her job to make the show worth watching, she failed. Her character developed slowly, was unlovable, and apparently hated her crew. She only obeys the Prime Directive if it endangers or otherwise disadvantages her crew, stranding them in the Delta Quadrant in the first place, but she also abandons it to throw Voyager into the middle of Inter-Species wars at the drop of a hat, yet episodes later cites the prime directive as a reason for not taking advantage of a method for her crew to get home.
She abandons technology with no reason other than "it didn't work the first time". There are multiple instances in the show where they try to iron out a kink in some Super-Drive that will get them home in a month. But it fails to worth during the initial shake-down. So instead of attempting to fix the problem they drop it as "being too dangerous" and move right the hell on. Its infuriating.
And as someone who watched and enjoyed TNG, and was a enough of a nerd about it to understand the POWER of a Galaxy Class ship, the fact that Janeway takes on the Borg as often and she does and by the end of the series is flat-out Slaughtering them is laughable at best. The Enterprise was *barely* able to withstand the assault of a single Cube, but Janeway is apparently able to survive an attack from *multiple spheres* in a vessel designed for Science? It made...and still makes, no sense.
She gets a lot of hate for good reason. In a show full of unremarkable characters, often boring story arcs, and plot holes(Dinosaurs and Amelia Earhart...IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE, to name a few), it was her job to make the show worth watching, she failed. Her character developed slowly, was unlovable, and apparently hated her crew. She only obeys the Prime Directive if it endangers or otherwise disadvantages her crew, stranding them in the Delta Quadrant in the first place, but she also abandons it to throw Voyager into the middle of Inter-Species wars at the drop of a hat, yet episodes later cites the prime directive as a reason for not taking advantage of a method for her crew to get home.
She abandons technology with no reason other than "it didn't work the first time". There are multiple instances in the show where they try to iron out a kink in some Super-Drive that will get them home in a month. But it fails to worth during the initial shake-down. So instead of attempting to fix the problem they drop it as "being too dangerous" and move right the hell on. Its infuriating.
And as someone who watched and enjoyed TNG, and was a enough of a nerd about it to understand the POWER of a Galaxy Class ship, the fact that Janeway takes on the Borg as often and she does and by the end of the series is flat-out Slaughtering them is laughable at best. The Enterprise was *barely* able to withstand the assault of a single Cube, but Janeway is apparently able to survive an attack from *multiple spheres* in a vessel designed for Science? It made...and still makes, no sense.
The first such of many instances that angered me was the first episode with Q. She decides to grant asylum to another Q over bringing her crew home. Really?! REALLY???!!!
That's just one of her many shitty decisions.
Also to add to the criticism of Voyager, you'd be a fool not to know that going into this show they would not return home until the series finale. So whenever any opportunity comes up to get them home, you know it won't work. The whole show is written around that.
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Phoenix.Ardiem said: »
(See: In the Pale Moonlight)
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
TNG
I'll take carbon copy Dr. McCoy over the borefest that was Dr. Beverly Crusher anyday.
Too dangerous to even research? I think not. And it wasn't the only instance. She constantly endangers her crew, risk their lives, OFTEN GETS THEM KILLED, and every single time they have an opportunity to get them home its "too dangerous". Some might have said that stranding them in the Delta Quadrant was too dangerous, she should have used the Caretaker Array.
And thats just one of many "wtf" moments in Voyager. They state their reserve of Photon and Quantum Torpedos in the first series a ton. BUt by the end of it all they've used far more than they had. They burn through members of the crew like they're nothing more than Self Sealing Stem Bolts, and never mention how they're replacing their MASSIVE losses during a what? Seven Year excursion away from any sort of supply lines? You could argue that the Maquis are being used to replace losses, but they simply take too many casualties. I honestly can't believe people could call DS9 bad while loving Voyager. DS9 had a story. A war no less. It was interesting, the characters were trying to save the federation itself from the Dominion...and they managed to do it. Not to mention the Mirror Universe stuff.
And thats just one of many "wtf" moments in Voyager. They state their reserve of Photon and Quantum Torpedos in the first series a ton. BUt by the end of it all they've used far more than they had. They burn through members of the crew like they're nothing more than Self Sealing Stem Bolts, and never mention how they're replacing their MASSIVE losses during a what? Seven Year excursion away from any sort of supply lines? You could argue that the Maquis are being used to replace losses, but they simply take too many casualties. I honestly can't believe people could call DS9 bad while loving Voyager. DS9 had a story. A war no less. It was interesting, the characters were trying to save the federation itself from the Dominion...and they managed to do it. Not to mention the Mirror Universe stuff.
Pretty rare to hear someone like Dr.Pulaski.
But that was the thing about TNG that made it so great - that different people connected to different characters. There were very few people I didn't enjoy seeing aboard the USS Enterprise. The cast was well rounded and we were compelled to recognize their importance even if you didn't really particularly enjoy the character.
Counselor Troi and Wesley are the only characters I could pretty much say were nigh-useless and should have been written out or expanded upon. Guinan had more importance than these two as the barkeep, mystic and spiritual adviser aboard the Enterprise. Tasha should have been swapped with Counselor Troi when the Oil-slick decided to randomly kill someone >_>
That was the problem for Voyager with me, you just never got that crew synergy that compels you to care about the well-being of the entire crew. Like or hate Janeway, she had her personality and I cared about what happened to her person but Harry? Tom? B'Elanna? Yeah... even Chakotay evokes more emotions and he was pretty wooden as a character to me.
I don't think that the problem with Voyager was that the crew was overall terrible but more that too many of them fell into mediocre territory and suffered for it. Similar issues plagued Enterprise.
But that was the thing about TNG that made it so great - that different people connected to different characters. There were very few people I didn't enjoy seeing aboard the USS Enterprise. The cast was well rounded and we were compelled to recognize their importance even if you didn't really particularly enjoy the character.
Counselor Troi and Wesley are the only characters I could pretty much say were nigh-useless and should have been written out or expanded upon. Guinan had more importance than these two as the barkeep, mystic and spiritual adviser aboard the Enterprise. Tasha should have been swapped with Counselor Troi when the Oil-slick decided to randomly kill someone >_>
That was the problem for Voyager with me, you just never got that crew synergy that compels you to care about the well-being of the entire crew. Like or hate Janeway, she had her personality and I cared about what happened to her person but Harry? Tom? B'Elanna? Yeah... even Chakotay evokes more emotions and he was pretty wooden as a character to me.
I don't think that the problem with Voyager was that the crew was overall terrible but more that too many of them fell into mediocre territory and suffered for it. Similar issues plagued Enterprise.
Yeah, that's a good point as well Sparth. Every single crew interaction in Voyager feels forced. Tom is only friends with Harry because there's no one else, he only marries B'lanna because there's no one else. No one on the crew was ever happy(and why should they be, their captain is obviously hell bent on seeing all of them dead), but the entire mood of the show takes a hit because of it.
And slip, I don't know how you can say DS9 was a Cookie-Cutter Trek like TNG or TOS. They had a pretty well established episode method of Random Planet A+Random Alien 6+Random Mission Theta=Show, and TOS, TNG, and VOY all followed that to the T. Only DS9 broke the mold and dared to have an engaging Meta-Plot. It wasn't just go here and encounter this, it was the constant threat of war looming just ahead. And sure DS9 had a few episodes where they were just out exploring in a Runabout or the Defiant....but they made them their own. Even the worst of the Ds9 Characters were monumentally more engaging that Janeway Herself. Hell I liked Captain Cusak better than Janeway and she was only in one Episode and never even seen alive.(DS9: The Sound of Her Voice I believe)
Voyager just suffered greatly from a combination of Over and Under Acting, and being entirely forgettable. Combine it with the usual plot holes and the ***** writing that came with VOY and I just can't rate it higher than even ENT. I still watched the series, front to back, several times. But every single time I do I wonder why I bother, as I usually end up just listening to an Episode play in the background while I do something fun.
And slip, I don't know how you can say DS9 was a Cookie-Cutter Trek like TNG or TOS. They had a pretty well established episode method of Random Planet A+Random Alien 6+Random Mission Theta=Show, and TOS, TNG, and VOY all followed that to the T. Only DS9 broke the mold and dared to have an engaging Meta-Plot. It wasn't just go here and encounter this, it was the constant threat of war looming just ahead. And sure DS9 had a few episodes where they were just out exploring in a Runabout or the Defiant....but they made them their own. Even the worst of the Ds9 Characters were monumentally more engaging that Janeway Herself. Hell I liked Captain Cusak better than Janeway and she was only in one Episode and never even seen alive.(DS9: The Sound of Her Voice I believe)
Voyager just suffered greatly from a combination of Over and Under Acting, and being entirely forgettable. Combine it with the usual plot holes and the ***** writing that came with VOY and I just can't rate it higher than even ENT. I still watched the series, front to back, several times. But every single time I do I wonder why I bother, as I usually end up just listening to an Episode play in the background while I do something fun.
Captain Sulu
DS9 was awesome because it was all politics and religion mixed in with action and of course science fiction. What more could you want?!
Josiahkf said: »
Phoenix.Ardiem said: »
Yeah, that's a good point as well Sparth. Every single crew interaction in Voyager feels forced. Tom is only friends with Harry because there's no one else, he only marries B'lanna because there's no one else. No one on the crew was ever happy(and why should they be, their captain is obviously hell bent on seeing all of them dead), but the entire mood of the show takes a hit because of it.
Which I could accept if they weren't lacking in team synergy. The writing just made the crew of Voyager seem illegitimate compared interactions of people on DS9 or even TNG. If you're stuck in the Delta Quadrant with a group of people for years on end you'd think you'd be far closer to the crew than the interactions led us to believe.
Check out the interactions of characters like Gul Dukat and Sisko, Odo and Quark, Miles and Bashir or even Bashir and Garak for examples of what I felt were better emotional connections between characters than anything Voyager delivered.
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
DS9 was awesome because it was all politics and religion mixed in with action and of course science fiction. What more could you want?!
I think that was my problem with it. It was focused too much on politics and religion. Personally i could have done without the indepth episodes of Bajoran religion. I was like really is this a show about Star trek or bajoran.
Other thing i didnt like was DS9, i felt like it really focused to much on its supporting actors at times. Im like "am i watching am episode abouts quarks mom".... i much have rather watched an entire show that focused on the main cast vs supporting secondary/tertiary characters.
DS9 was good from season 4 and on. DS9 1-3 was just boring to me.
Diana Muldaur, never would have lasted beyond season 2. Tons of rumors that her and Patrick Steward didn't get along.. Patrick Stewart even goes on the record for specifically asking for McFadden back. Crusher brought a nice twist to the plot. I personally did like the whole subtle romance plot that developed between her and picard.
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
DS9 was awesome because it was all politics and religion mixed in with action and of course science fiction. What more could you want?!
You're right and it's probably why I enjoyed DS9 as much as TNG.
On par with Picard's famous monologues.
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Me!
In Star Trek online game.
In Star Trek online game.
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I play STO as well now Sanchez. Ardiem there as well.
that has to be the most epic scene in all of star trek. Garak is my hero.
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Leviathan.Bimbam said: »
Perhaps Voyager was always destined to fail.
When you compare ST with SG (I know you really can't compare them but meh):
TNG = SG1 (10 seasons)
DS9 = Atlantis (5 seasons)
VGR = SGU (despite highest production values, argueably best acting and imo decent plot. 2 seasons)
Perhaps the concept itself is simply less conducive to a long running show. I think people grow tired of the overlying theme of returning home and either find it less and less believable or simply depressing.
In a sense, Andromeda countered this effect by simply denying the possibility of him returning.
Edit(more): Andromeda had an awesome cast. My issue was that upto the season 2 finale, the show was entirely story driven and followed a distinct plot, a good thing. Then they decided to essentially ignore the story built up so far and simply say "Oh you know what, we know this magog sun/planet/ship thing is otw, but it's gona take ages so were gona ignore it. Let's just make every episode essentially standalone stories and ignore the main plot we just built up to entice people."
I have no fundamental issue with standalone adventures, TNG did it for years. But you cannot build up a back story then just ignore it and plug in fillers, that's what Bleach and Naruto do. TNG did it the correct way round. Provide multiple individual adventures to provide character building and advancement, and then start to weave larger plots in re. Q, Borg, etc.
When you compare ST with SG (I know you really can't compare them but meh):
TNG = SG1 (10 seasons)
DS9 = Atlantis (5 seasons)
VGR = SGU (despite highest production values, argueably best acting and imo decent plot. 2 seasons)
Perhaps the concept itself is simply less conducive to a long running show. I think people grow tired of the overlying theme of returning home and either find it less and less believable or simply depressing.
In a sense, Andromeda countered this effect by simply denying the possibility of him returning.
Edit(more): Andromeda had an awesome cast. My issue was that upto the season 2 finale, the show was entirely story driven and followed a distinct plot, a good thing. Then they decided to essentially ignore the story built up so far and simply say "Oh you know what, we know this magog sun/planet/ship thing is otw, but it's gona take ages so were gona ignore it. Let's just make every episode essentially standalone stories and ignore the main plot we just built up to entice people."
I have no fundamental issue with standalone adventures, TNG did it for years. But you cannot build up a back story then just ignore it and plug in fillers, that's what Bleach and Naruto do. TNG did it the correct way round. Provide multiple individual adventures to provide character building and advancement, and then start to weave larger plots in re. Q, Borg, etc.
Ugg stargate universe was so good. I never really watched any of the other stargates but the vibes I got from the fanbase was that they wanted another old stargate season not some new show especially one that has a different atmosphere and story telling format. Perhaps if SGU had a different name or came around at a different time things would have been different but that show was everything I wanted startrek voyager to be.
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