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[Dev] Impetus and Tantra Cyclas +2
 Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-21 18:55:57
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Impetus is the most ridiculous JA there is, 50% critical hit rate and 50% critical hit damage bonus (a reasonable average of 20%) is stupid no matter which way you turn it. It isn't only about weaponskill damage either, it's a massive boost to white damage as well. This is another one of those scenarios where people will QQ to no end about the limiting of their severely overpowered ability, and instead of getting into semantics, I'll just state my support for the lowering of this ability's function to reasonable levels, or the implementation of a similar ability for other jobs.
Also lol @ the people trying to say that Impetus isn't the main reason that MNK is stupid strong right now.
Lol I love how your stance is pretty much "nerf every other DD but BLU"
Lol I love how you always have such well-thought out and meaningful contributions to these forums.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-02-21 18:57:49
Yeah, sorry I guess I forgot to add "dancer is the best" to make as meaningful of a contribution as you do.
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-02-21 18:58:14
Still ahead of SAM, but MNK is one of the top 4 DDs regardless, its place depends on buffs and fight length. Job really has nothing it can complain about, and people vastly underrate its damage.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9553
By Bismarck.Moonlightespada 2012-02-21 19:02:19
yea ive loved MNK for years <was my first job, tho i beat the 70 cap on COR, loved that fight lol> so yea the job has been amazing for years, and ill love it no matter what they do to it nerf or no nerf!
:D
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-02-21 19:02:29
Monk was one of those jobs that was always very strong DD wise and as far as I can remember, they never really got any nerfs before (aside from TP return years ago)
There were a job that was so prefect at what it did that it really didnt get any nerfs or buffs for a long time. They got VS and impetus on level increase was was really nice. Id hate to seem them start nerfing the job when its one of the few jobs that has actually been fine since it was created.
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Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-02-21 19:03:00
I should add that I think an impetus nerf is *** outrageous, and you people who think it is making MNK overpowered are idiots.
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Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19451
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-21 19:03:02
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Impetus is the most ridiculous JA there is, 50% critical hit rate and 50% critical hit damage bonus (a reasonable average of 20%) is stupid no matter which way you turn it. It isn't only about weaponskill damage either, it's a massive boost to white damage as well. This is another one of those scenarios where people will QQ to no end about the limiting of their severely overpowered ability, and instead of getting into semantics, I'll just state my support for the lowering of this ability's function to reasonable levels, or the implementation of a similar ability for other jobs.
Also lol @ the people trying to say that Impetus isn't the main reason that MNK is stupid strong right now.
Lol I love how your stance is pretty much "nerf every other DD but BLU"
Nope, but defending a grossly overpowered JA is cute.
By Fupafighters 2012-02-21 19:03:26
Lol well idc what job is better, it should be "which job is more fun". And nerfing my poor mnk even more will just make the job less fun :/
We shouldn't be working for this gear and weapons that benefit from them and being promised reward to find out "oh hey we are going to make you weaker because your stronger than this job. OOOPPPS" That's just dumb lol.
By Fupafighters 2012-02-21 19:04:40
I say they should rethink their updates before they add them lol...People are sick of being offered this ***and then finding out they're taking away our rewards :P
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-02-21 19:04:48
tldr;
Prothescar: Anything that isn't my DD jobs are overpowered, nerf all the things.
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Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19451
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-21 19:05:21
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »I should add that I think an impetus nerf is *** outrageous, and you people who think it is making MNK overpowered are idiots.
Feel free to explain what makes MNK so badass outside of a 20% +/- increase to critical hit rate and critical hit damage that can essentially be up 100% of the time since most fights don't last more than three minutes.
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »tldr;
Prothescar: Anything that isn't my DD jobs are overpowered, nerf all the things.
tl;dr Darkmagi:
I can't back up my claims with facts so instead I'll bring up meaningless and unfounded points.
Lakshmi.Rearden
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1130
By Lakshmi.Rearden 2012-02-21 19:06:34
I don't think I ever said Impetus wasn't what made MNK what it is, I clearly stated that if the argument is that a MNK is required then that argument is false.
Impetus makes MNK what it is, and without it MNK would not even come close to the top of the parse list on T6 type mobs (which is what the game should be balanced for)
If the concern is that MNK hits 10k smites with ***gear in Abyssea, then we are not concerned about the same thing.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-02-21 19:06:47
So I guess you would support a nerf to CDC then since its a very strong WS in the hands of BLU?
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-21 19:06:52
This is really a response to the player base.
Abyssea Era Posters said: MNK+WHM Post-Abyssea Posters said: WAR/SAM
Fast-forward:
tl;dr If your job is good, keep it a *** secret.
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-02-21 19:07:34
I'm pretty good at that, but you advocating meaningless nerfs is just getting *** pathetic. The moment impetus gets nerfed is the moment MNK becomes irrelevant for any worthwhile endgame.
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Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3012
By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-02-21 19:08:04
tl;dr If your job is good, keep it a *** secret.
So F'ing true
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19451
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-21 19:08:22
So I guess you would support a nerf to CDC then since its a very strong WS in the hands of BLU?
Stop talking, you're spewing nonsense. Differences, etc., but a nerf to BLU wouldn't make me baw, it's always been an underdog. I'd be more concerned for the PLDs as it'd make them even more pitiful.
I don't think I ever said Impetus wasn't what made MNK what it is, I clearly stated that if the argument is that a MNK is required then that argument is false.
Impetus makes MNK what it is, and without it MNK would not even come close to the top of the parse list on T6 type mobs (which is what the game should be balanced for)
If the concern is that MNK hits 10k smites with ***gear in Abyssea, then we are not concerned about the same thing.
Not saying MNK's overall power structure should be changed, however having it rely on a JA like Impetus is pretty stupid.
Quetzalcoatl.Lishje
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 82
By Quetzalcoatl.Lishje 2012-02-21 19:09:57
So what ARE the chances of hitting all 50 swings in a row without missing assuming 95% acc? I think I remember somewhere way back during lv75 about how Asuran could only ever hit 67% of the time 8/8 hits.
How is this ability overpowered when you think of the odds of hitting even 25 hits in a row at 95% acc? What about 15? 10?
Its not overpowered, its a good ability that enhances the jobs main aspect: DoT, and the Devs are complete buffoons if they think it should be nerfed in any way.
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-02-21 19:09:59
tl;dr If your job is good, keep it a *** secret.
So F'ing true ^ DRK is a *** terrible job and no one should level it.
Lakshmi.Rearden
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1130
By Lakshmi.Rearden 2012-02-21 19:11:14
The answer then is to change H2H accuracy formula, attack formula, etc, to make them more capable without Impetus, and since SE isn't going to do that and Impetus really is a requirement to do formidable damage, Impetus should stay.
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Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-21 19:11:53
Should just leave Impetus as is, halve the duration, and make it an AoE buff.
Server: Valefor
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Posts: 19451
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-21 19:12:16
The answer then is to change H2H accuracy formula, attack formula, etc, to make them more capable without Impetus, and since SE isn't going to do that and Impetus really is a requirement to do formidable damage, Impetus should stay.
Most preferred alternative would be what you said, yes. Hand to hand works differently than other weapons, being bound to (nearly) the same restrictions as other weapons is annoying. Impetus is just a crutch.
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-02-21 19:13:26
That won't happen though, so don't *** advocate pointless nerfs.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19451
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-21 19:14:14
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »That won't happen though, so don't *** advocate pointless nerfs.
Situationally pointless nerf
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Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 45
By Shiva.Karmessurma 2012-02-21 19:14:30
Just close this thread already.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-02-21 19:14:50
Honestly, how often are you getting the full affect of Impetus? Im sure on harder content you arent reaching capped accuracy anyways. Its not like you use it and BAM, you are getting the full bonus of the JA over the whole duration.
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Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-21 19:15:25
My SAM is better than your MNK! NO! My MNK is better than your SAM! My WAR is better than both of you! Empy>relic!~!!!!!!!!11111111 wrong! relic>empy! Entropy all the things!!! I'm picturing a whm in the background, hands on her hips with a huge ball of dust and commotion in front of her as the dds argue
"good grief" even lol
Well of course, I don't think they've nerfed WHM in the history of its existence.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-02-21 19:16:09
Isnt that basically like saying, any JA that buffs a DD is a crutch? ***time to nerf Berserk, Hasso, Saber Dance at this rate.
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1285
By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-02-21 19:16:44
Also factor in how long it is taking you to get in 50 successive hits, I thought someone mathed the average bonus to be something like 10-15% at capped accuracy?
| 02-21-2012 02:20 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| Impetus and Tantra Cyclas +2
There was a short comment from Mizuki Ito mentioning that they were looking into whether or not the augmented Impetus effect on Tantra Cyclas +2 needed to be revamped. This caught the interest of some Japanese players and Ito responded a bit more in-depth.
Mizuki Ito said: Current Status
We are monitoring this, but will most likely keep the stats the way it is now.
Concerns
“Augments Impetus” increases the maximum value of enhanced critical hit damage, and the compatibility with Victory Smite is extremely high.
The enhanced critical hit damage increases by 1% every time an attack lands, and it can rise to a maximum value of 50%.
As a result of preserving this power, we are concerned about the below conditions arising.
- Excessive power inflation
- Necessity of a monk for everything, as well as situations where “as long as there is a monk other jobs are not needed”.
Example, (like Abyssea) situations where monks can be selected for content since they are able to tank full time.
Based on the above
With the recent version update, in order to prevent an overall power inflation we reduced the TP critical hit modifier for Ukko’s Fury and Victory Smite.
When looking into this adjustment, we also considered the stats on Tantra Cyclas +2 and we intended to cut the adjustments just close enough so equipment would not have to be changed, so there shouldn’t be any problems with this in regards to power inflation.
Also, in regards to monks becoming essential for all content, the below are some reasons why it will not happen:
- Impetus effect will only increase when attacking and misses will reset the effect.
- Difficult to fight safely without taking damage during high level content such as long HNM battles, etc.
- Difficult to function as a tank continuously regardless of the content or situation.
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