If FFXIV Fails... What Does That Mean For FFXI?

You are a horrible person ;-;

:<

If FFIV fails SE is trouble because XI is currently failing from SoA. A lot of people dislike the new XI they brought us. but we will see what they have in store for XI regardless if IV fails or not, they are losing people's interest from XI.

I'd like to know the % of people who have took breaks or quit since SoA. Most people I know quit or taken break including myself. I'm sure the amount of people SoA pushed away is larger than we think & still losing more as I speak.

If IV fails it would open up & allow more time for XI but could they save XI is the question after a loss like that. Lacking ideas & funds with risking another chance at making the game worse?

Really? The population on my server pretty much steadily tripled after SoA released. Are you really sure about your statistics or are you just bitter?

people have been very bitter, more than usual lately

Lol bitter? Not at all. I find goals to entertain myself in game when I play if I was I wouldn't play, I only took a 2month break out of boredom not frustration.

But Have you not seen the threads people post of quitting and bitching? SoA release brought people back for 1st 2weeks population hit in the 3ks. But has dropped down to a average 1k ish. And most people I knew aren't around anymore. I no Fenrir not the only server that has unsatisfied people.

And my statistics? I said I'd like to know the % we lost when people quickly felt dislike or Boredom towards SoA. I never gave any statistics on the population.

They're all doing Delve now. lol

Forget I asked, I see you are going to bring it off topic and start talking about people's frustration rather than keeping to subject like I asked. whether or not IV fails will XI survive with a dieng population either from people leaving for IV or just leaving due to being bord with XI

I'm actually doing SalvageII since getting a DD slot for delve shouts is just a matter of whose tell gets seen first :(

I've been doing random /sea all on Leviathan for the past week. 900-1100 is the average. Peaks at 1700 or so sometimes (NA prime time) but it's certainly not tripled or anything close to it. If anything it's pretty much the same as before SoA.

The idea that a lot of people will leave for 14 from 11 because 14 ends up being a good game honestly seems a little fanciful. 11 is fleshed out, has had things setup for people to have a bunch of stuff to do, so people that feel established here probably don't see a ton of reason to move onto something else, or else they likely would have done so with the fairly sizable number of other games that have come out in the past decade.

Personally what I think would do really well for SE is just making a deal for people to get a reduced subscription price for 14 if they play 11 at the same time. it would give good reason for a lot of people stuck in only wanting ff11 to give the other game a chance as well as just keep older players for random stuff.

I wouldnt doubt there will be a population dip when ARR is released I know a lot of people that are moving, myself included, I also know some people who have already deleted their chars.

If FFIXV fails(again) I'm hoping we get our development staff back. You'd think a company the size of SE could afford enough staff to work on a new game without pulling out support for the one that's actually making them the money.

It's time for them to make a server merge, most of them are empty, lakshmi barely reaches 1k online when is not jp prime time.

And yeah, so many mules, bazaars, and people too lazy to /shutdown. There's a lot of inactive people online.

hmmm if FFXIV actually tanks again (i doubt it will though from what I've been reading seems very promising) SE will overall be in a whole lot of financial trouble (and we will probably never hear the end of it) lol

For FFXIV to fail, it will depend entirely on the MMO market itself, and Square-Enix. At the moment, outside of FFXI, the only other two major MMOs with a subscription fee are World of Warcraft and EVE Online that immediately come to mind. Currently free-to-play (F2P) MMOs, as numerous as they are, are gaining more and more popularity among MMO players. TERA Online and soon RIFT Online are F2P. Guild Wars 2 use the buy-once, play free forever (with item/cash shop) method of making money.

So, with that in mind: Can FFXIV gain enough of a playerbase outside a niche group to keep the servers running while competing against World of Warcraft AND F2P MMOs?

You have to also look at the state of Square-Enix as it is currently. They last reported a fiscal loss of $134 million, with layoffs in its North America and Europe divisions. Games they've made haven't sold very well, and that's not including Final Fantasy-related games. They, too, are feeling the pinch from the mobile gaming market that's putting a serious dent into both console and PC gaming altogether. If the next Final Fantasy after XIV (not XIII Lightning Returns) or another major game they develop through Eidos Interactive does not meet sales expectations, will the company restructure itself further to reduce costs to maintain profitability? Will they be forced to cut off losing divisions to maintain a profit?

There's already a small development team for FFXI keeping the content ongoing and updating it. Most of the resources and people have been shifted to XIV and get that ready for its re-release. And, luckily for them, there are enough players on FFXI as it is to keep the servers running day-to-day. FFXIV v2.0 would have to meet a minimum number of players to offset the costs of running the game, pay for its development costs, and for future content and updates.

I wouldn't say FFXIV will fail completely, but in a business sense to SE, it would be considered a failure if it doesn't meet projections and goals within a year. I don't think an MMO like FFXIV will survive solely on niche players using a subscription-only plan. It's worked for FFXI since 2002 (2003 for NA, 2004 for EU), but even then the playerbase has been dwindling. From a business perspective, maintaining only a small group of players wouldn't be considered successful to me especially given the time and, importantly, the money invested in reworking the game from the ground up.

But, if it comes to the point where FFXIV's expenses exceeds the money it is taking in, Square-Enix will probably consider two options:

1. Shift the game from subscription to free-to-play model; move players who paid for it into a "Premium" status and charge for extra features and add a cash/item shop. (Similar: Star Wars The Old Republic, RIFT Online and TERA Online)

2. Shutter the game completely since it is at this point of time a complete loss unable to gain enough of a playerbase to meet the minimum number needed to keep it running; shift resources back to FFXI; restructure and focus other efforts into different markets such as mobile gaming.

Also, a failure for one doesn't entirely mean another will fail too. If FFXIV fails completely, FFXI will still survive so long as it maintains the needed number of players still willing to pay a monthly fee to keep the servers running and pay for future content and updates.

However, Square-Enix needs to take a good and long hard look at FFXI at this point in time. Small updates and content releases like Abyssea isn't going to keep players in the game. Developing the game and its updates using the smallest common denominator-- Playstation 2-- isn't going to help either.

The very first thing they need to do is completely stop Playstation 2 development and not allow the game be limited by the hardware specs from a 13 year old system. That means even alienating some Japanese players, and force them to move to the 360 system. That way the game and its updates have better hardware to be limited to-- 512 MB of RAM on the 360 and an expandable hard drive beyond the 40GB limitation of the Playstation 2's hard drive. This should allow for better, higher resolution textures and larger zones to be loaded. You have to keep in mind that the game and its contents plus updates and expansions are developed using the lowest common denominator here: 56kbps connection and 32MB of RAM with a 40GB maximum hard drive storage. If the game cannot conform to those limits, then it will not run on the PS2.

Secondly, Square-Enix needs to go back to what Final Fantasy was known for in the first place-- its story. Many may scoff or laugh at the thought of a story in an MMO, but it is one of the factors that make Final Fantasy a very popular, endearing and lasting series. It's what sets it apart from other MMOs on the market. Besides its story, the series is known for both its characters and music. SE needs to return to its roots, pre-Enix merger when games such as Final Fantasy VI or Chrono Trigger had really good storylines. The last good and probably best storyline so far in FFXI has to be the Chains of Promathia expansion. Treasures of Aht Urghan comes in second for me with Wings of the Goddess rounding out at number three. I haven't gotten through all of Seekers of Adoulin yet, but from the looks of it, doesn't look like it would match CoP or ToAU. SE needs to make a very good storyline for the next expansion pack and give players a very good reason to do so.

Thirdly, the grind-for-armors and weapons needs to either completely stop or be entirely revamped. How about tying access to certain tiers of gear as you progress through an expansion pack's storyline? That's one random thing that came to mind as I write this. I know that the game, especially since I've came back to it a month ago, is wholly lopsided with a huge shift towards high level content and gear. A lot of the older areas have been neglected as a result. One of the best suggestions I've seen so far from a fellow FFXI player is raising the minimum level requirement for Abyssea from 30 to 60, or even level 75. Think about what that will do for the older areas that hasn't seen much action since 2009 or 2010(?). Grinding Delve for plasm and gear is going to get very repetitive later on, especially if SE considers similar mechanics for gear attainment in a future expansion pack. This I truly believe has to change completely, and would benefit the game as a whole. There is already enough grinding for gear in other MMOs, and I don't want this to be another WoW-like MMO. WoW has been nothing more than a detriment to MMOs in general and SE changing the mechanics of both FFXI and even FFXIV to cater to the short attention spans of a lot of MMO players who came from WoW isn't going to set your game apart from the myriad of WoW clones out there on the MMO market. TERA, RIFT, and SWTOR already suffer from WoW clone symptoms as it is.

To put it simply, the game and the company has to change their attitudes completely. I have seen more major updates and progress done in EVE Online since its release than FFXI has had since 2002. CCP has been more than willing to completely change the graphics engine of its game, EVE Online, cut support off for older hardware, do its damnedest to listen to its playerbase and provide content and updates as much as possible each year or every few years. Blizzard is riding on its popularity among diehard fans of its story since Warcraft 1 and its name. Mysts of Pandara hasn't quite been as popular as it hoped it would be. However, Blizzard has maintained a high number of subscribers since launch and has provided WoW with a lot needed technical and minor graphical updates over the years as well as content updates.

Square-Enix? Not a whole lot in terms of technical updates, and content updates have been getting smaller and smaller over the years. If FFXIV ARR were to fail a year after launch, what that means to FFXI is that SE has to turn a complete 180 and take a good hard look at FFXI. They have to ask themselves: "What made it popular?", "How do we maintain a playerbase to keep it running?" and, most importantly, "What can we do to fix it?" FFXI needs fixes in both its technical state (graphics, area size, storage, servers, etc.) to its content (storylines, missions, quests, gear, and expansion packs) in order to survive. If CCP, a company much smaller than Square-Enix, is willing to pour both the money and manpower to continually update EVE Online on two fronts-- content and technical updates-- why can't Square-Enix do the same thing? That is where it does not make sense at all to me, especially when SE is probably two to three times larger than CCP Games.

In other words, someone needs to slap some sense of reality at Square-Enix. FFXI and soon FFXIV ARR is going to face stiff competition in the years to come from not only World of Warcraft, but the deluge of F2P games out there on the market. That and future releases of newer MMOs coming in the next few years-- Everquest 2, Elder Scrolls Online, ArcheAge, Neverwinter Nights Online, and if it ever comes Stateside and to Japan, Blade and Soul. With the exception of Elder Scrolls and Neverwinter Nights, Everquest 2, ArcheAge and Blade and Soul are stepping out of World of Warcraft's influence and will try things differently in the MMO world, and they, to me, show more promise at surviving the deluge of F2P MMOs out there than FFXIV ARR itself. And, we cannot forgot Project Titan from Blizzard which I would assume would be released within the next ten years from now.

Dat huge wall if text is huge....

FFXIV isn't gonna fail again. It actually looks pretty amazing tbh.

It /looked/ amazing the first time around. You have a little too much faith, Seha. xD

ARR looks alot better than 1.0.

They improved on the mistakes they made, it's actually going to be alot more playable this time around.


I had no problem with 1.0 other then the really bad client issues.

Guild Wars 2 looked great too, and so did Star Wars: TOR, and numerous other MMOs in the past several years. I like a lot of those games and a lot of them (especially GW2) look great too. They all have varying degrees of success but almost all of them have fallen short of the companies' expectations. The MMO market is pretty cutthroat and it's been stagnating a bit because of what WoW did (Theme Park greatly outweighs Freeworld MMOs now, basically the only big one of the latter is EVE as mentioned above).

Still, Final Fantasy is a name that sells, so it has that edge at least, though one would argue that Star Wars and KotOR are both pretty big names amongst gamers too.


I don't think anybody does this anymore. MMOs, including WoW since WotLK have began incorporating a lot more story into their games now. XI was the MMO that first did it to the extent that it did, but other MMOs like GW2 and SWTOR arn't really lacking, at least in terms of effort. Whether or not you prefer the story of XI over other MMOs is another story altogether.


There is all of one cutscene that's actually important in the Adoulin story so far that's actually important. The problem isn't how good the story is, it's that it gets released too damn slow. By the time the next chapter comes along everyone's already forgotten what the heck is going on (this is what happened with WOTG).


As I understand it, WoW's actually been bleeding a lot of subscribers too (They have basically the same number of total subscribers but they have a lower proportion from higher-paying areas like the United States). Right now a lot of MMO players are hopping from game to game and trying them all out because of how much competition there is, and the amount of FTP MMOs compounded with a number of people getting tired of WoW's model doesn't really spell well for FFXIV IMO. Let's not mince words- great graphics/art direction aside, there is actually little to distinguish FFXIV apart from other WoW-like MMOs. The market has changed a lot since FFXI was released and like you said, it feels like SE still doesn't understand this.

Overall, I think FFXIV will probably get a healthy number of subscribers much like LOTRO has, but I doubt it'll be a runaway hit or anything like that.

Speaking of wow, in Italy I've met a lot of wow players over the years and not a single one of them played on official servers, everyone was on free shards. I don't know if it's only an italian problem lol but given this way of thinking people here completely ignore any mmo with an actual sub fee.

All this stuff... Tl;dr..
I don't usually get involved in quarrels but....

From what ive seen on the beta so far, it's amazing.

What i love about XIV is there is more than just 3 ways to lvl, other than XI (Mindless grinding in GoV.... Mindless keying in abyssea, or constant death in soloing.)

So far.. i can count...

Leves.
Instance/dungeons.
Quests
Hunting Logs
Solo / group party exping (sure its only a small amount of exp per mob, but its exp nonetheless.)
And im sure there is way more.

The battle system is nice and smooth and i just LOVE the music in the game, the graphics were amazing (and my system played it on Low-end standard level)
also the character customization is better than what i could have ever hoped for. The sheer amount of options is brilliant.

But don't get me wrong.. I'm not going to sit here and fanboy FFXIV though, I do have my quarrels with it.

As such:

The global cooldown system. No. Just No. BAD IDEA.

They are at times, i feel, copying FFXI. Sure, i know what you're going to say "Oh but those classes are in ALL final fantasy!" Yeah, i get it. But wouldn't it be nice for some originality?

For example: Make a completely random class that no one has ever heard for, and can do things no one else can... For example: A warrior with a double ended sword (Whatever the hell thing zidane used in FF9) which can change its attacks to elemental dmg (Not "EN" elemental dmg like RUN or RDM, COMPLETELY elemental dmg for the hit) at will, and have offensive skills that also deal elemental dmg for the attack. (Example: Vorpal Blade (Phys), Press a macro to turn on Water DMG, it turns to Vorpal Blade (Wtr) and has an animation to match.).... but enough of my foolish ramblings.


Another one of my hates...

They ruined lalafells. They are not what i wanted them to be, i wanted to play as one of them, now i will not purely because they look like a fat dwarf. Not mini-humans as i had initially hoped. unless they increase some sort of Body mass size adjustor as they did with women's bust, i won't be playing one (which is a damn shame cuz those faces are cute as buttons)

My last hate, which is also a love (Weird huh?)
They use bahamut as an antagonist again, he was amazing as an ally and i'd love it to happen again

but i don't think XIV will flop.
(MY FIRST WALL OF TEXT ON FFXIAH.COM =D)

Fail or not has nothing to do with it's good or not, it's only related to how big the market is.

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/05/26/square-enix-feel-they-have-something-to-learn-from-kickstarter/


Square Enix recently revealed that, despite being major hits, Tomb Raider, Hitman Absolution and Sleeping Dogs failed to meet their sales forecasts. In a financial results briefing, Soon-to-be Square Enix president Yosuke Matsuda explained the problem in more detail.

“These titles were lauded by the industry from a creative perspective, achieved very high levels of quality, and I believe that we achieved our primary goal of both reinvigorating existing IPs and creating new IPs,” Matsuda says. However, he adds, profits are where the aforementioned games failed to deliver as per expectations. One of the problems was that their actual sales to customers—not shipments to retailers—slowed down too quickly.





Not being a F2P game is one failure, not having a tones of new game mechanic is another.

WoW has been out for how many years? And how many WoW style MMO released after WoW? A lot if you include the F2P one! None are as successful as WoW because it offers nothing new. And players quickly get sick of all that traditional MMORPG formula: Log on, create a race, choose a class, choose a gender, get quest, lv up, learn skill, do raid, kill boss, get gear, repeat. After playing same game mechanics for years it gets old.

FFXIV should have been a mobile MMO or F2P model like GW2 to begin with. But fans probably won't allow FF goes mobile(for some reason many older video game fans hates mobile platform despite it's currently the most promising and profitable platform), and SE is too stubborn to go F2P.

SWTOR fails, and brand name couldn't save it, I doubt FF can save FFXIV.

FFXIV gets a healthy number of subscriber like LoTR doesn't mean it's not a failure, it probably has higher dev and marketing cost than LoTR due to remake....A higher budget MMO should make more money, or else it's a fail.

Honest question but how many subscribers would be the minimum to consider the game not a failure?