Why Do You Think Blue Mage SHOULD Be Nerfed?

My Claustrum still weeps.

Gee, I wonder why your job is bandwagoned.....

I guess every non-blu main is also uninformed! Only the BLU mains are!

It is just the points you are trying to make about the job being broken, aren't really relevant

I think they are, a lot of people(who don't play blu) also think they are.

You're uninformed about more than just BLU. Your viewpoint of the entire game is still incomplete and your ability to play even your own jobs is not yet cemented (as is evidenced by your constant questions in various threads on this very site). Asking questions and being uninformed isn't inherently bad, but pretending to be some grand allknowing poobah, while in reality you have a very basic understanding of the current metagame, is.

Don't have to know everything to know that a single DD job(out of what, 22?) capping it's own magic haste is obviously broken.

Tell me what BLU's weaknesses are. I'd like to know.

Also tell me why them having free magic capping(and haste2) is balanced or ok.

Please educate me, inform me. I love to learn, I want to know.

Tell me why I'm wrong. Tell me everything.

I'll speak up.

I'm not an "OG Blu" as Prothescar named them. PLD is my favorite job. I stuck to PLD when enmity was an absolute joke. By that I mean I came on it when I had a valid reason to. I came other things when that made more sense.

I've played blu for years due to the versatility it offers the group, same reason I play GEO even though I hate it. Someone being able to put the group at at least 30% haste makes the entire experience a little more fun. If we have a GEO/BRD/RDM/SMN, my group--whoever is in it--can cape haste.

If there's a dispel, goodbye party attack speed probably (Whether MG or Flutter).

Versatility is just something I really enjoy and I think is an important facet as the skilled and informed population thins out. I don't have to be the one pumping out the biggest numbers to be proud of an accomplishment.

You've yet to provide any reasons why you think a job being able to cap its own attack delay is such a travesty. You have two that can do the same thing, by the way.

Last I checked that's pretty low on the list of things that people have a problem with, it's more to do with BLU's ability to provide 15% haste to the entire party coupled with its defensive spells.

I'll give you an example, your posts are like me saying my melee ability on BLM is too stronk.

Read my edit.

I can see how someone returning to the game from another era could think that. But in modern FFXI, it just isn't that big of a deal given how many party setups can do the same thing.

I'm aware of the difference between a player heavily utilize scripts, bots and multiple char, v.s people play manually and don't have access to alt. I have organized pt for both types of players and generally had to use different strat or setup when I lead both types of players due to the difference they had, such as utilizing some tricks or change buffs, setups as extra safety net and so on.

That being said, a lot of Comeatmebros comment in this thread, and on this website could be applied on none multi box players IMO. I don't feel his comments or pov is only applicable to multi box using tons of scripts, otherwise as a player not using any scripts I wouldn't +1 most of his post.

I wouldn't just write off someones opinion because they heavily multi box personally.

Weakness of a job is subjective. Some consider if you aren't top, the job sucks. Some consider if you can still clear the content, your job is fine. You can't compare XYZ job to each other based on how many weaknesses or strengths one has vs the other. You then end up with games like WoW where there is no difference in basically any job. Y job can out damage BLU, but BLU should do even less dmg because it can give haste? Thf should be nerfed even further because they have th? This was an actual argument by the devs at one point btw. Glad they pulled their head out of their butt.

BLU is a very strong job. I'm not sure anyone has denied that. However, it is doing exactly what is is designed to do. It isn't the best DD. It isn't the best magic dealer. It isn't the best tank. It isn't the best healer. It isn't the best support.

Guess this is one of those, you would have to see it to understand it situations. I've played with many people that multi box, run bots, scripts. No one like Thorn lol

If your pt setup is something like DD DD COR Aeonic BRD RDM GEO then I can see how using DD not self capping haste isn't losing any buff slots. To my knowledge honor march + haste 2 caps magic haste and you'd be using honor march without sacrificing any buff slot anyways.

If not using the above setup then other DD simply gets less buff slots unless I'm missing something.

I'm not giving you a primer on every encounter in the game but to give you some general issues with the "BLU can do everything and counter all things simultaneously" fallacy that you seem to cling to so readily. I'm going to assume we're talking about higher level group based content here since if you seriously believe anything of this is relevant to ***content like ambuscade or t1/2 NMs then I'm not sure what to tell you, and also assuming that you'd be using trusts when solo rendering your primary complaint of "but magic haste cap :B" worthless:

Strengths
-Versatility. Can provide backup heals and limited party buffs as well as Defense Down. Most other enfeebles are best left to other jobs.
-Strong physical damage output. Mostly due to the strength of Chant du Cygne, whose self skillchain potential and remarkable parameters makes it potent.
-Strong defensive capabilities. Overlapping defensive buffs that can be included when necessary to provide additional eHP buffer for bad healers or exceptionally strong AoEs.
-Strong AoE magic damage. Good for burning during gain XP or some low tier CP camps. Also useful for some fights that feature burnable adds (T1 Reisen Tonberry as an example)


Weaknesses
-Frequent or Full Dispels render any spell castable with Diffusion, in addition to Mighty Guard as a whole, worthless.
-Cooldown timers. Diffusion can be used once every 10 minutes, you need two BLUs to fulltime Mighty Guard (which is the biggest concern I've seen levied so far since it "takes up extra party slots" for that 15% haste that can be received elsewhere)
-Status effects (under the same conditions that other jobs would be affected)
-Poor single target magic damage. No, subduction and dualmental spells are not a replacement for a black mage, don't even try it.
-Overshadowed by other melee jobs when it comes to pure damage output. BLU's greatest strength is in its versatility and bulkiness, not its damage.


Generally, weaknesses are shared with other melee DDs, with other melee DDs tacking on "needs haste from a mage or support" since, odds are, you'd be running either march or indi/geo haste thus rendering Haste II pointless. I don't know what kinds of weaknesses you think other properly supported jobs have, so I can't really offer any insight on that. Suffice to say people are meleeburning the highest tiers of content and don't necessarily need BLUs to do it, so...

Again, these are generalizations. Different fights call for different approaches and assuming that BLU is any different is ignorant. Some fights I wouldn't even want to bring a BLU for, and as I have seen most top tier groups don't consider BLU to be the end-all-be-all for every tier of content. This is an issue with low to mid tier players and content levels as finding support for these can be difficult. Unfortunately I don't see how nerfing BLU will solve this problem, and if anything the situation for players in this bracket will worsen, but I don't have any solutions for it either so we'll just have to see what happens.

You still haven't provided me with a reason as to why BLU being able to cap its attack delay (which Haste isn't even needed for btw) is such a bad thing compared to almost every other DW/H2H capable job.

I think SE has a problem though and at certain tiers (if that is what you would call it) has bigger disparities than other tiers. For example. All melee jobs without an RME may seem somewhat lackluster to a blu without an RME. I think THF is one of the jobs that can actually come close. While as people do their min/maxing and complete these RMEs they sky rocket in damage. My question is what could SE do to balance this? Nerfing BLU dmg for example doesn't work, because then it will greatly reduce their damage in comparison to other jobs using RMEs at that tier of gear. Idk how much it matters with how easy it is to build Ultimate weapons now and days, but that is one of my thoughts in general towards the balancing of all DD jobs, not really directly related to BLU.

And this is the silliest "concern." Why would I bring an extra GEO to use Entrust for haste when the BLU can do it themselves while doing top end damage and free up my first GEO to Entrust something else?

Please keep discussion civil and on topic.

For the most part, one handed jobs are in a great spot across the board. NIN, DNC, and THF are exceptional jobs in the right hands, as is BST.

WAR and DRK are almost always applicable choices as well.

SAM (for reasons mentioned earlier in the thread) and DRG (for a few reasons that I'm not entirely familiar with so I won't speak on concretely) are more situational.

RUN is a strange outlier, it is a tank with tank abilities but its Aeonic turns it into a devastating DD, albeit one that requires a lot of support to work in addition to that somewhat large barrier to entry.

MNK is a mess.


I will agree that, to an extent, RMEA weapons are necessary for most jobs at higher levels of content (and Coladas are pretty ridiculous compared to a lot of other jobs' Reisenjima weapon offerings), so it isn't a moot point on your end. That's just a strange decision on SE's part when it comes to itemization though and I have a hard time blaming the job for it.



Who said anything about bringing a second GEO? In any single party content where a single GEO is sufficient already, which buff are you losing from Entrust that would be a make or break and cause that second BLU to be necessary? Is it nice to have? Sure. Is it required? No. Entrust Haste will be required when and if MG gets ousted though, so whatever buff you're enjoying from dual BLUs now will be going away eventually in any case.

BLU damage doesn't need nerfed. They just need to not be able to do everything at once. They should not be able to turtle up in full DD gear/buffs too. There needs to be less crossover between their buffs.

I can agree with this and I'm not 100% sure why MG got its own buff ID for DEF and MDEF bonuses. I do have to say though that I can't just fulltime DD gear even with tusk/cocoon/coat abuse (especially on stuff with DEF downs, Cocoon has 0 buff priority), it does make my healer's life easier though.

This right here is why two BLU and one GEO would be better than two non-BLU and a GEO. Entrust being freed up for more defensive, or even an additional offensive buff.

And everyone touts about replacing a BLU with GEO for Entrust Haste.

That really doesn't make any sense to me. Surely if you're bringing a 2nd GEO you would just indi or geo haste and use entrust for something else.

I don't know about this tbh, I was playing with WAR spreadsheet yesterday and found that WAR with Montante +1 comes extremely close to Rag 3 without MS and beats rag 3 with MS, both using same sets posted on the forum and doing content that acc isn't an issue, which is what majority of mid tier player bring melee for anyways. And Rag 3 is considered best weapon for this job in majority of situations. It's just that none of the PUG none REMA WAR I've ever pt with uses GS build.

I also think COR with appropriate Savage build can parse quite competitively as a none REMA DD mid tier DD. Got a couple of friends start winning parses in PUG since they built a tp bonus magian. Idk much about where other none REMA DD stands though.

I do believe a lot of PUG aren't pushing attack high enough when they make pt though, that may be the reason why crit hit WS DD such as BLU gets advantage on parse. I have never seen PUG COR use light shot on dia(ok... sometimes I don't when having parse competition, so Im a bit guilty about this myself), and most of they crooked card on SAM roll over chaos.

A lot of times PUG GEO also don't use bog even in ambuscade when you can reset JAs.
Not to mention 70% of PUG blu dont do attack down spell.

Couple with the fact that a lot of PUG DD can't cap acc, that may be the reason why some people observed avg BLU parse higher than other avg DD jobs.

Edit: Also there are more information about how to DD on BLU available everywhere, compare to other jobs. So most BLU player tend to parse higher because of this.

Strategies that rely on being in DT at the right time are inherently unreliable. Entrust wilt and mighty guard is enough to prevent one shot on anything. Scherzo and attune/vex prevents magic one shot on anything. Thus, whm brd geo geo blu blu can fulltime dd gear and get optimal buffs against any mob(precision or fury and frailty, attune vex, hnor madx2 scherzo). If mob doesnt need scherzo or have dispels you can drop brd for cor and be even better off. Taking away one blu from this breaks the invincible status and adds significant death risk or outright adds need for a tank on top of reducing your buff spread. This doesnt cover literally everything in the game, but well over 75% of contrnt that drops potentially BiS gear is covered. The setup opportunities afforded by blu are much stronger than the blus want you to think.

Hmm interesting. I haven't heard anything about wars before rag. That's pretty cool. None-the-less what I said was more of an example and not necessarily true at all.

It's not that I don't believe you, but which NMs?

If you can't full time DD gear when you have Defense+75~% and 15~% DT on from buffs, what in the *** are the other DD's supposed to do to live in this scenario?

Better question is which nms does it not apply to. Some t4, intense amb frog, potentially kirin(havent tried). WoC would need outside buffs but blu can tank it fine in that setup. However, the same generic setup can take on essentially every escha nm, high tier battlefield, etc with essentially no risk of one shot, a low gear requirement, and little player involvement.