Random Politics & Religion #08

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Random Politics & Religion #08
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2016-07-29 13:03:52
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Flavin, when you want to get back to the topic at hand, let us know, ok?

I'm just going to ignore your ramblings for now on.
Yeah... We'll have fun bein
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Flavin, when you want to get back to the topic at hand, let us know, ok?

I'm just going to ignore your ramblings for now on.
So basically you can't refute anything I've said so you'll pout crew your arms and make some kind of ludicrous claim that I'm off topic? Lol ok...
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-29 13:06:55
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Every state is different.

Kansas is required to unionize, regardless if you want it or not.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-29 13:07:51
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Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Can you present an argument at all about the "good" of unions? Hell, Ramy is in a union himself and he can't really present arguments about the "good" of unions....

Well let's walk that one back a little.

I promise you I'd have lower benefits and far less PTO. Probably similar income but I'd likely be working ~10 more hours a week for it.
Are you absolutely positive about that?
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-29 13:10:20
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Are you absolutely positive about that?

Within a degree of reasonable certainty.

I mean, the only think I'll state with confidence and certainty is "I think therefore I am," because this could all be one big hallucination of a sentient desert mouse, but.

Within the context of what we're discussing, "yes."
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-29 13:12:49
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Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Are you absolutely positive about that?

Within a degree of reasonable certainty.

I mean, the only think I'll state with confidence and certainty is "I think therefore I am," because this could all be one big hallucination of a sentient desert mouse, but.

Within the context of what we're discussing, "yes."
I can't argue against that, because we are now in the relm of "what if" and there is no way to be certain in that relm.

It's a magical place where we could be both wrong, we could be both right, or we could be both farts in the wind.

Or worse, we could be the imagination of Rooks!
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-29 13:17:09
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I'm telling you.

Desert mouse, tripping his balls off on peyote.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-29 13:18:39
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Desert snake, tripping his balls off on desert mouse peyote.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-07-29 13:18:51
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fonewear said: »
#drunkrednecklivesmatter
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-29 13:19:20
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Grandma Chanti is high again!
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-29 13:19:49
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Desert snake, tripping his balls off on desert mouse peyote.

And Rooks is the honey badger who ate them all.
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 Bismarck.Magnuss
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2016-07-29 13:20:13
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Desert mongoose, tripping his balls off on desert snake mouse peyote.
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-29 13:20:18
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
fonewear said: »
#drunkrednecklivesmatter

Some of us grew up drinking pumpkin jack.

Lay off.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-29 13:21:07
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Desert Bald Eagle, because America, *** Yeah!
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-29 13:22:45
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Desert Bald Eagle, because America, *** Yeah!

...I will not be drawn down this rabbithole of lyrics.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-29 13:23:55
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You didn't respond to GC and my Rick Rolling Josi in RT!
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-29 13:25:50
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
You didn't respond to GC and my Rick Rolling Josi in RT!

I did, it was just late.

I brought more Awesome 80s to the party.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-29 13:31:27
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Democratic Campaign Group hacked

Quote:
A committee that raises money for Democratic candidates for the U.S. House of Representatives confirmed on Friday it had been hacked, a cyber intrusion that may be linked to Russian hackers, like an earlier one targeting another Democratic Party group.

In an incident likely to raise concerns among party donors about their personal information, Reuters first reported on Thursday that the Federal Bureau of Investigation is probing the hack at the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, or DCCC.

The committee said it has hired cyber security firm CrowdStrike to investigate. "We have taken and are continuing to take steps to enhance the security of our network," the committee said in a statement.

"We are cooperating with federal law enforcement with respect to their ongoing investigation," it said.

The DCCC hack may be related to an earlier hack against the Democratic National Committee, which raises money and sets strategy for Democratic candidates nationwide. The DNC and DCCC occupy the same office building in Washington.

Potential links to Russian hackers in both incidents were likely to heighten accusations, so far unproven, that Moscow is trying to meddle in the U.S. presidential election campaign to help Republican nominee Donald Trump.

The Kremlin denied involvement in the DNC cyber attack.

The DCCC breach may have been intended to gather information on donors, rather than steal money, sources said on Thursday.

The hack may have begun in June, when a bogus website was registered with a name resembling a DCCC donation site. For some time, donation-related internet traffic that was supposed to go to a donation-processing firm instead went to the bogus site, said the cyber sources who asked not to be identified.

The sources said the numerical Internet address of the spurious site resembled one used by a Russian government-linked hacking group, one of two suspected in the DNC breach.

Cyber experts and U.S. officials said on Monday there was evidence that Russia engineered the DNC hack to release sensitive party emails and influence U.S. politics.

The DNC hack raised concerns among Democrats at the party's convention in Philadelphia, where Hillary Clinton was nominated as the party's candidate in the Nov. 8 presidential election.

The new hack at the DCCC could add pressure on the Obama administration to make a public accusation or retaliate. The Justice Department and other agencies have said it is important for deterrence to "name and shame" cyber adversaries.

"Any efforts on a nation state’s part to interfere with U.S. politics through cyber attacks would appear to cross a line that would demand a response from the U.S. government," said D.J. Rosenthal, a former Justice Department and National Security Council official.

A former White House official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said any formal accusation would require overwhelmingly certain evidence.

Staffers for the Republican National Committee and the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee said separately that those campaign organizing groups had not been hacked.

They must use the same security protocols as Clinton used on her email server...
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By Blazed1979 2016-07-29 13:34:38
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Long live the united banana republic!
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-29 13:38:06
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Blazed1979 said: »
Long live the united banana republic!

Leave my shirt out of this.
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2016-07-29 13:38:31
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Grandma Chanti is high again!

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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2016-07-29 13:54:30
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
By unions you guys mean the organizations for the rights of workers?

In the USA many unions were taken over by the mafia and turned into a extortion racket of apocalyptic proportions creating what is known now as "The Rust Belt" much of which looks like hiroshima after it met "little boy"


American manufacturing was going to decline regardless of unions considering Asia, the ME and Africa came online as part of post-WWII technological developments and America becoming the standard bearer of capitalism.

With aircraft and shipping containers becoming larger, more efficient with the oil to back it and advancements like telecommunications and eased trade barriers there was no reason to pay Americans high anymore when you could farm it out practically anywhere for less.

It's easy to blame unions because that absolves any responsibility from the management side but the need to cheapen labor is always at the forefront of manufacturing.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-29 14:01:02
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
American manufacturing was going to decline regardless of unions considering Asia, the ME and Africa came online as part of post-WWII technological developments and America becoming the standard bearer of capitalism.

With aircraft and shipping containers becoming larger, more efficient with the oil to back it and advancements like telecommunications and eased trade barriers there was no reason to pay Americans high anymore when you could farm it out practically anywhere for less.
That is a good argument.

But if it wasn't for the unions demanding abnormally high wages for little productivity, the regions where unions were strong wouldn't have been as greatly impacted as they were when globalization started to take it's stride.

Remember, this effects the US as a whole, and yet, the areas that was strongly affected by outsourcing manufacturing jobs were the ones where unions were prevalent.

To use an example: Texas, while hit also with globalization, managed to maintain a lot of it's manufacturing jobs, even gaining some from outside investors (outside the US that is), due to it's business-friendly environment.

We have been growing while the union-friendly states keep stagnating, or in some cases, recessed into pre-Industrial Age standards of living.

The only difference is presence of unions.
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-29 14:02:48
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
But if it wasn't for the unions demanding abnormally high wages for little productivity, the regions where unions were strong wouldn't have been as greatly impacted as they were when globalization started to take it's stride.

I mean...maybe...?

It's not like steelworkers were living in the lap of luxury.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-29 14:04:25
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Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
But if it wasn't for the unions demanding abnormally high wages for little productivity, the regions where unions were strong wouldn't have been as greatly impacted as they were when globalization started to take it's stride.

I mean...maybe...?

It's not like steelworkers were living in the lap of luxury.
Steelworker unions weren't the only problem.

You said so yourself, UAW also damaged the economy too.

And those are two well-known cases. Nobody really looks into the damage Teamsters do either.
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By Ramyrez 2016-07-29 14:12:03
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Yeah, I just...ugh. I mean, forget PTO. Mill workers and mine workers face actual *** danger at work that to this day isn't properly regulated. Big mine owners get off with slap-on-the-wrist fines for egregious violations of safety costing workers years of their lives/their health and/or just flat-out killing them.

Example.

Yes, inherently dangerous jobs, but...ugh. It's a problem. And with many of these workers they're not exactly the brightest bulbs in the box. They're not complete idiots, but they're high school educated at most. They can't go to the bargaining table individually against a team of lawyers and expect a fair shake...
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2016-07-29 14:14:17
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It cannot all be laid at the feet of unions though. Manufacturing industries like autos, machine parts, technology and consumer goods are far cheaper to produce overseas and no amount of free wheeling would change that.

The industries that died quickest in America were mostly consumer goods and parts. Auto had a bit of a buffer since the slander about Asian cars was true... at first but it wasn't long before Asian cars were par or better than American autos. American car companies got complacent and let the competition get ahead.

Labor wise you have Americans with American sensibilities competing with Asian workers who as far as industry was concerned were living 50 years behind the curve. The region was ripe for exploitation. You can work people to death with no regulations and the government was fine with that so long as growth continued.

It's the lifecycle of industry in capitalism in action. We're currently in the consumer, high-tech phase of production here. The gravy train that was American manufacturing will never again reach such heights without some serious protectionism.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-29 14:20:05
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I'll accept your evidence, however, it's it also the regulator's fault for not shutting down the mine before the accident?

I mean, if we are going to assume that all businesses purposefully run bad equipment without properly maintaining them, shouldn't we also assume that all regulators are supposed to shut down a business for bad safety practices?

I don't know about most states, but the regulators in Texas loves to publicly shut down businesses. Hell, they do it all the time!

Why aren't the regulators doing their jobs elsewhere?

Ramyrez said: »
They can't go to the bargaining table individually against a team of lawyers and expect a fair shake...
Is that what you think wage negotiations are? I can guarantee you that nearly all non-union jobs in the US who negotiate wages are between the manager/owner and the employee. That's it. No team of lawyers, no huge rooms of executives going over every single employee's raise. Just 2 people talking about what is best for the company and what is best for the employee.

Unions, yeah, they have teams of lawyers doing that too. Everyone has to get their "fair share," right?
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By fonewear 2016-07-29 14:20:11
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Is this the random union and union member thread ?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-07-29 14:23:16
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
It cannot all be laid at the feet of unions though. Manufacturing industries like autos, machine parts, technology and consumer goods are far cheaper to produce overseas and no amount of free wheeling would change that.
If that's the case, why are there still manufacturing jobs here in America? By your reasoning, everything, and I do mean everything, is made elsewhere.

Large, medium, small companies, doesn't matter, they all are made outside the nation.

Never mind that businesses are building plants here in the states, mainly in non-union states...

Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
The industries that died quickest in America were mostly consumer goods and parts. Auto had a bit of a buffer since the slander about Asian cars was true... at first but it wasn't long before Asian cars were par or better than American autos. American car companies got complacent and let the competition get ahead.

Labor wise you have Americans with American sensibilities competing with Asian workers who as far as industry was concerned were living 50 years behind the curve. The region was ripe for exploitation. You can work people to death with no regulations and the government was fine with that so long as growth continued.

It's the lifecycle of industry in capitalism in action. We're currently in the consumer, high-tech phase of production here. The gravy train that was American manufacturing will never again reach such heights without some serious protectionism.
Fair analysis, only if you look at specific parts of the equation and not the whole picture.
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