Why Arent Melee Used Anymore

This is right on the money. I run a event shell on Asura and I get a lot of people apply that only have DD jobs leveled, and when you ask them about support jobs they cba to gear or level any they just want to play DD.

The thing to about this is I guess they like to think that support job people want to be support 24/7. That is not the case. That is why I require jobs that have support and DD leveled to make rotating jobs easier for events, and to try to get my members not on same job all the time. My support people would love to get off support once in awhile, and do some DDing or w/e depending on what the event is we are doing (obviously T4/T5 would not have lots of DD, etc).

^^ So true. In Vagary, etc the DD require tons of support, and when doing T4/T5 you can not have any deaths. It puts a strain on support to keep multiple DD alive not to mention the tp being feed to the NM, which makes it worse.

Every dog has his day. It wasn't that long ago when nuking was garbage, 1handers aside from monk were useless, etc. I miss the days of heavy melee being king but it's only fair that everyone gets a turn on top of the heap. And you never know how the last content update will shake things up. WAR and DRK may get a massive buff that puts them on top of the heap!

Exactly, for a long time DD was good for most things and mages were kinda left out. Now they release content good for mages,and people still not happy. I think in a way its SE way of kinda balancing stuff out cause DD is still used in HTBF including DM2, etc not to mention delve as well.

I don't think anyone wants mages to be left out. I sure don't, its fun to be play with a diverse group of jobs.

And I know about Alluvion weapons, but it can take a lot of gil to get perfect augments. I have Rag and would only replace it with Liberator at this point. I'm not against playing as a backline job when it suits, because Corsair can be a lot of fun (i do melee with COR when I can), but it would be nice to get stuck in there more. Like the old days.

if you want to dd in current endgame, then gear up rng, blm or geo

These are used a lot in Escha-Zitah especially BST for now until SE decides to do the dreaded "nerf" word if they decide to anyway. Haters do not hate on me cause I used that dreaded word! I know how heated of a discussion that brings when its mentioned in the same sentence as Bst. lol

I think the bigger reason people flock to the common strategies isn't so much that they're assuredly the best, but rather that the people posting most about strategies here and BG are going to do so using the jobs they found worked best. From there, they continue to use those jobs (or otherwise tweak the similar strategy), which they continue to post about. Over time, with all kinds of useful information coming in from multiple sources, people can experiment with alternate strategies that work better for their crew.

The real problem is that some idiot reads these posts without understanding how well-geared and/or practiced these players are, and figure that a) anyone can do it with the same jobs and b) this is the only viable strategy. The result is you have idiots insisting on mimicking these experienced players even if they don't really get it. It's like making wings out of bed sheets and jumping off a building and expecting to fly, cuz hey, birds have wings and they fly. What you are seeing is that groups are being led by people who are either practiced in their method, or are inexperienced forum readers who have no capacity for critical thinking.

This is really true. I know that my group once we get down the strat of something we tend to stick with it until we comfortable enough to change it up some, and add other jobs to the mix. I am sure Sechs might pipe in on this conversation lol but we normally do stuff the way we know and feel comfortable with more then we change things up. Like I told Sechs, and the rest of my members I am fine with changing up things some and to play around with other jobs but for some things like T4/T5 bringing a bunch of DD to it is really not a smart move to do unless you bringing rng, and even then they need to be good geared/etc, so accuracy is not much of a issue. Also, we kinda like the SC MB way and if you get too many DD on the NM they kinda mess that up a lot.

It's nice to be cor main. Never have the problem of not being invited to stuff like the rest of these plebeians!

*wears crown and sets sail*

lol. Its nice if you like to main the support job but we get people who tend to brd a lot *cough*Sechs*cough* because he is 4 song (He never seriously complains about it though, <3 Sechs), and we kinda lack 4 song bards in our ls cause we had 2 of them quit in like a 2 week period for real life. One of our members just got his mule 4 song though, and we have a couple of people that can 3 song, so we try to mix it up some to get people off the jobs they might normally go on for things like Vagary (some of our geo's like to go on other jobs as well). When we do Escha-Zitah etc, I try to let the jobs be more relaxed, and more lenient on what jobs we take, and who goes what to that zone. The problem I have with things is that some people are limited on what jobs they can play (other jobs not geared for end game or not leveled/skilled) and if a certain job is needed, and they do not have much alternative ones needed it makes it hard to put them on other jobs but our group is a tight group of friends, so leaving people out is not really a option, so we make do with what we got. :)

Over time we lost 4x 4songs bards I think (KA, Flow, Badhi, Honey). I'm the last one remaining lol.
Well we have 3x 4songs mules, but it's not the same thing.

Tbf I still believe we use BRDs out of habit more than real necessity, but then again it's also undeniable that BRD offers a level of versatility that the other 2 buff jobs do not have, yet.

Now if only those annoying mobs didn't dispelga every *** second... >.>''''



Anyway so much <3 for Cyl. Anybody who's in TLOU or has been in TLOU knows what I'm talking of <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Oh yeah! I totally forgot about the other 2. /smack myself.
Yeah, we have mixed it up and tried with just geo buffs and no brd in incursion and that went ok. We should play around with it more, and get out of the having a brd habit to be honest.

And Sechs you know that <3 is returned tenfold to you and all my TLOU family! <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Are you telling me that they were actually serious with their melee RDM smacking AV with a staff?

***.

Regarding Vagary, it's nigh impossible for melees to even hit it decent enough to kill it anyways, let alone survive.
At least Pluton and Perfidien anyways.
And this isn't just cheap *** melees, or Bards, or geos. The Great Death squad of a full mythic party couldn't do it.

I've never even tried Escha with melees. But i have heard of a few groups of doing it like that when it came out, but not it's kinda become obsolite with the BST EVERYTHING attitude of most people on this server. (Not that i don't mind cause it gets stuff done, and i get to sell my food which i over craft.)

But BST everything and RNG everything isnt also the only way to do escha. I've 3 manned everything up to T3s with SCH GEO GEO, with 2 trust tanks and healer, that was amazingly fun.
Back when people said that doing certain AA fight's i've ended up doing in stupid set ups noone really talks about.

I'm not mad that the styles obsolete over more soloest styles, i'm more so mad that people find it hard to level COR to 99, so they are wasting a party slot cause they are DD Onry <_<; when parties clearly need a COR.

That being said, Look at when Ark Angels came out, the literal only way for people to do that content when that came out was with RNGs and PLDs. It will eventually reverse to a state where the contents easy again and DDs are more viable. Now you can literally solo those BCs on BST on Difficult.

My group and I have used melee DDs on every single tier of Escha and have managed to clear everything aside from T2 HELM NMs, which we haven't fought yet. The fights got a bit hairy in spots and required more support roles, but it's easily doable IF the players are well-geared. I've gone BLU to every event in the game and have excellent success with it, but melee setups just plain require more support than others.

And yes, I loved SCH GEO GEO burns for Escha NMs, particularly during the Trust bonus HP/MP event. Apururu + Gessho + Amchuchu forever.

Also, in regards to BST: Just because it's the flavor of the month doesn't mean you don't need to understand how to play it. Stop using Xerin/Bertha for single target damage. Monster correlation actually does exist. Accuracy is important. Please stop doing silly things.

Setting up a support job for recent content is not as easy as most people seem to make it sound like. Leveling the job is the easiest part. The main problem is what you should do after that.

Would you like to have a COR that is doing nothing other than rolls in your Escha party? You would expect them to have capped skills, accurate ranged tp and ranged ws sets (or even two ws sets for physical and magical), weaponskills unlocked, various JA gear, maybe 100 JPs for the gift, some experience with the job etc. The list goes on.

Since the game currently favors lowmen and strict party setups, you would want everyone to be at least above average in skill and maybe even better in gear (in terms of versatility, such as DT sets). The player base grew older, the enthusiasm is far from how much we had years ago. Most people don't have the patience or will to have multiple support jobs ready for top-tier action.

Edit: I consider myself lucky that I happened to have whm already leveled and geared during the Abyssea days. Honestly, if I had to gear up a support job from scratch these days, I would just give up right after I finish leveling and remember the mountain of stuff I have to worry about before feeling ready for current content.

Fun fact about that; Red Mages were their main tank for AV, so they acknowledged how ridiculously powerful Red Mage was back then.

What is awful is they used Red Mage tank to defeat AV, and then proceed with nerfing RDMs tanking ability for everyone else. ***.

Can't talk about COR Vinedrius, but at least for GEO and BRD it's very very easy/fast to gear them up to decent levels (i.e. being moderately useful in alliance content).
From there on you can only get better, but you can already start using the job and being useful, and it's pretty fast to get there.

Doesn't take months and months of farming rare drops.

The ammount of GEOs i know who are working on Mythics or have Mythics for it, who don't understand how to heal others, or be a support when the WHM needs assistance is unreal.


I don't have that expectation of many cors, but what annoys me is when people argue they are the best at their job, and then can't support others, in a party situation.
A COR who has been specifically asked to go /WHM cause they are in a party with 5 BSTs should be casting curaga. and doing rolls. It shouldn't be the GEOs job from the other party to be mainhealing that party, and supporting and nuking all at once.
Never expect a COR to do much more than what i ask of them.

I think a large issue of the No Melee is down to people not being realistic, and not being half assed about their jobs, hence the large wave of band wagon bsts, at least on slyph.


This Also really annoys me, of the 2 mythic BSTs on my shell, only one actually cares enough about this. It annoyed me the day a group of LS bsts said the Mosquitto was the ***, when to diabalos and then used the AoE drain, to then be confused as to why it wasn't working.
That and theres been a few other instances, Escha is by far the easiest content to set up for Monster correlation, cause it's blatantly obvious what everything is.
That is a god send for like life the universe and everything.

We need to qualify what we mean by "geared". If we're referring to a support role ONLY supplying buffs and then grabbing a drink for the rest of the fight, COR, GEO, and BRD to a lesser extent, are incredibly easy to gear. If we're talking about actually gearing them well (ranged, snapshot, MAB, macc, melee for COR), (nuking, enfeebling, healing, pet idle for GEO), (whatever crap BRD does), then it will require far more. The more work that is put into a support, the more valuable that support becomes. However, you risk being pigeonholed into that role 24/7, so it's a double-edged sword.

Unfortunately, bandwagons inevitably come with massive amounts of misinformation. A perfect example of that is BLU, which still has an overwhelmingly negative stereotype due to just how misunderstood the job is. BLUs using burst affinity to increase the damage of their physical spells is still something that keeps me up at night.


Unfortunately, the BSTwagon has not improved things too much. BSTs considering DT sets to be a waste of time, or not understanding damage resistance certain mobs have (I'm looking at you, BSTs using Randy on Tulfaires). I'll readily admit that when I started working on BST, I was exceptionally clueless about the job. Thankfully, the BST forum here is tremendously helpful, and people really need to read the guide from start to finish.

I already quantified it.
The minimum necessary level to be able to use that job into group content.
It's not the ending goal, it's a starting point, but from there you can start using the job and be useful for the rest of the group.

The amount of effort/time required to reach this level is really small.
For BRD you just need Eminent Flute, Terpander, some 109 AF/Relic/Empy and whatever else you can get or already have (FC, Macc, etc)
It's similar for GEO, recycle what gear you can from other mage jobs (nuke, macc, cpot, FC etc) and get a mixture of 109 AF/Relic/Empy + Dunna, and you can already start being useful in group content.
Even if you don't feel like nuking, you're still gonna be more useful than staying outside of the group because you have "no other job" or coming as a DD who's gonna miss, feed unnecessary TP, die too often and place unwanted stress on the other healers/support.

I wasn't talking like something that you gear to that point and keep it that way. I consider it a starting point from which you'll have to keep improving of course, but can start from there.
It's different from endlessly gathering gear for months before even being able to USE the job, which probably applies to other jobs.
Just not for GEO and BRD, imho.

I completely agree with your standpoint, I simply meant a qualification in general so as to put everybody on the same page. If a support is at the bare minimum for content but can contribute well, I have no problem. An issue arises when they refuse to improve upon that gear, in my opinion. I know far too many GEOs, CORs, and BRDs who claim the job to be their main and yet look at you like a deer in headlights if you ask them to do anything other than buff.

So, Oh So so true.
It's sad that this doesn't just apply to those jobs. Just about every job has those people in them. SCHs,SMNs,WHMs....
I guess despite you having the best possible team, I guess you always going to wind up with that one person who is just... clueless about much else apart from NUUUKKKIIINNNGGGGGGGG or HEALLLIIIINNNNNNNN

It have been always like that.

Said RDM wasn't tanking, he was just meleeing.

I forgot if it happened before or after the AV nerf that led to Blood Weapon being nerfed on him.

Jeez that's so old. We were already using SAM to tank stuff so I've never seen it as a big loss personally.

The video has 2 Kaiser PLDs tanking with Earth Staves. Now I remember why everyone would full time it, they weren't just stupid, they were really stupid.

I was a THF for a long time back in the 75 days and I would have never expected them to get such a boost. It happened almost instantly too. Why can't they just do that for the jobs that are lacking? Every job should have something to bring to the table for any type of content. Something as simple as a WAR getting a G.Axe that has a delay lower than 504 would do some type of justice.

Hell, I think Genbu is faster at swinging than a G.Axe WAR with haste gear and x2 March.