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March Version Update
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By Bloodrose 2015-03-24 16:07:44
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You can enter Einherjar solo, but you still need a party of 6 for the maximum time allowed, otherwise your time becomes limited to 10 minutes.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2015-03-24 16:13:34
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Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Never understood the need to be different. Just go with the flow and level the jobs needed. Whining about not being able to come a specific job is getting old.

Yes, 95% of the game's population being WHM SAM MNK BRD PLD RNG SCH, and the other 5% being all the other jobs is really great.

What a wonderful world that would be.

You get the special banana sticker.

Man, if only FFXI let you level and gear multiple jobs and change between them more or less on demand.
 Leviathan.Krysten
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By Leviathan.Krysten 2015-03-24 17:20:09
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Bloodrose said: »
You can enter Einherjar solo, but you still need a party of 6 for the maximum time allowed, otherwise your time becomes limited to 10 minutes.


oh ok musta missed an update somewheres

thanks
 Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2015-03-24 17:31:47
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Leviathan.Krysten said: »
Bloodrose said: »
You can enter Einherjar solo, but you still need a party of 6 for the maximum time allowed, otherwise your time becomes limited to 10 minutes.


oh ok musta missed an update somewheres

thanks

It's actually always been this way. One of my first runs, your leader broke the lamp, and entered before passing out other lamps.
 Siren.Sieha
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By Siren.Sieha 2015-03-24 17:37:00
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Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Never understood the need to be different. Just go with the flow and level the jobs needed. Whining about not being able to come a specific job is getting old.

Yes, 95% of the game's population being WHM SAM MNK BRD PLD RNG SCH, and the other 5% being all the other jobs is really great.

What a wonderful world that would be.

You get the special banana sticker.

I think you said that sarcastically but really its the truth. Having the jobs that are needed to complete content is so much better then just sitting there in the dark whining about not being invited.
[+]
 Asura.Ivlilla
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By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-03-24 17:44:06
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Siren.Sieha said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Never understood the need to be different. Just go with the flow and level the jobs needed. Whining about not being able to come a specific job is getting old.

Yes, 95% of the game's population being WHM SAM MNK BRD PLD RNG SCH, and the other 5% being all the other jobs is really great.

What a wonderful world that would be.

You get the special banana sticker.

I think you said that sarcastically but really its the truth. Having the jobs that are needed to complete content is so much better then just sitting there in the dark whining about not being invited.

Yeah, what you might not be aware of is there are OTHER JOBS that can complete that exact same content.

I did a DNC DRK MNK WHM GEO GEO run of Tojil the other day. Went amazingly well. I also did some DNC PUP MNK SCH BRD RDM runs. They went amazingly well, too.

It turns out that there are a wide variety of jobs capable of competing in, and completing, end game content. The problem is that these "wrong" jobs and "wrong" job combinations require effort, teamwork, and intelligence to work.

The problem is a large portion of this game's playerbase is made up of narrowminded simpletons who are incapable of doing anything but the most simplistic, easy, idiot-proof, risk free, no-thought-required strategies for anything, and even worse, are completely unwilling to even TRY anything different.
[+]
 Asura.Ivlilla
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By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-03-24 17:45:27
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ScaevolaBahamut said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Never understood the need to be different. Just go with the flow and level the jobs needed. Whining about not being able to come a specific job is getting old.

Yes, 95% of the game's population being WHM SAM MNK BRD PLD RNG SCH, and the other 5% being all the other jobs is really great.

What a wonderful world that would be.

You get the special banana sticker.

Man, if only FFXI let you level and gear multiple jobs and change between them more or less on demand.

YouTube Video Placeholder
 Asura.Loire
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By Asura.Loire 2015-03-24 18:03:39
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Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Never understood the need to be different. Just go with the flow and level the jobs needed. Whining about not being able to come a specific job is getting old.

Yes, 95% of the game's population being WHM SAM MNK BRD PLD RNG SCH, and the other 5% being all the other jobs is really great.

What a wonderful world that would be.

You get the special banana sticker.

I think you said that sarcastically but really its the truth. Having the jobs that are needed to complete content is so much better then just sitting there in the dark whining about not being invited.

Yeah, what you might not be aware of is there are OTHER JOBS that can complete that exact same content.

I did a DNC DRK MNK WHM GEO GEO run of Tojil the other day. Went amazingly well. I also did some DNC PUP MNK SCH BRD RDM runs. They went amazingly well, too.

It turns out that there are a wide variety of jobs capable of competing in, and completing, end game content. The problem is that these "wrong" jobs and "wrong" job combinations require effort, teamwork, and intelligence to work.

The problem is a large portion of this game's playerbase is made up of narrowminded simpletons who are incapable of doing anything but the most simplistic, easy, idiot-proof, risk free, no-thought-required strategies for anything, and even worse, are completely unwilling to even TRY anything different.
It's tojil, people were trio boxing that as brd mnk whm before alluvion yorcia even came out.
 Sylph.Feary
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By Sylph.Feary 2015-03-24 18:12:03
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so they've removed/changed tiamat, which allows them to add seconds to timestamp.

which for anyone playing during hnm days is a sign of the times. lol

it was a really big thing to s.e that we werent about to officially get hnm ToDs.

also adding zone timer to UI for delve/incursion/skirmish.

interesting.

i will like to see what this su2 gear does for crafting skill up, which s.e said was a main point of SU gear. screw the stats lol

hopefully what ever they do from now to nov. it puts some long term life in to the economy. reviving alot of synthesis materials and not just adding content with new items. whether they do it right or wrong it will have a huge effect on content a year from now.
 Asura.Ivlilla
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By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-03-24 18:17:15
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Asura.Loire said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Never understood the need to be different. Just go with the flow and level the jobs needed. Whining about not being able to come a specific job is getting old.

Yes, 95% of the game's population being WHM SAM MNK BRD PLD RNG SCH, and the other 5% being all the other jobs is really great.

What a wonderful world that would be.

You get the special banana sticker.

I think you said that sarcastically but really its the truth. Having the jobs that are needed to complete content is so much better then just sitting there in the dark whining about not being invited.

Yeah, what you might not be aware of is there are OTHER JOBS that can complete that exact same content.

I did a DNC DRK MNK WHM GEO GEO run of Tojil the other day. Went amazingly well. I also did some DNC PUP MNK SCH BRD RDM runs. They went amazingly well, too.

It turns out that there are a wide variety of jobs capable of competing in, and completing, end game content. The problem is that these "wrong" jobs and "wrong" job combinations require effort, teamwork, and intelligence to work.

The problem is a large portion of this game's playerbase is made up of narrowminded simpletons who are incapable of doing anything but the most simplistic, easy, idiot-proof, risk free, no-thought-required strategies for anything, and even worse, are completely unwilling to even TRY anything different.
It's tojil, people were trio boxing that as brd mnk whm before alluvion yorcia even came out.

I've also seen a guy threebox Yorcia with his mythic SAM and BRD and WHM. Way to miss the goddamn point!

The point is that there is a wide variety of tactics, and therefore, jobs and job combinations, that are able to complete content, and even, shockingly, do it very well. However, those combinations require more goddamn thought than the MNK turning on autoattack and spamming "haste pls" in chat.
[+]
 Asura.Loire
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By Asura.Loire 2015-03-24 18:23:23
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Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Asura.Loire said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Never understood the need to be different. Just go with the flow and level the jobs needed. Whining about not being able to come a specific job is getting old.

Yes, 95% of the game's population being WHM SAM MNK BRD PLD RNG SCH, and the other 5% being all the other jobs is really great.

What a wonderful world that would be.

You get the special banana sticker.

I think you said that sarcastically but really its the truth. Having the jobs that are needed to complete content is so much better then just sitting there in the dark whining about not being invited.

Yeah, what you might not be aware of is there are OTHER JOBS that can complete that exact same content.

I did a DNC DRK MNK WHM GEO GEO run of Tojil the other day. Went amazingly well. I also did some DNC PUP MNK SCH BRD RDM runs. They went amazingly well, too.

It turns out that there are a wide variety of jobs capable of competing in, and completing, end game content. The problem is that these "wrong" jobs and "wrong" job combinations require effort, teamwork, and intelligence to work.

The problem is a large portion of this game's playerbase is made up of narrowminded simpletons who are incapable of doing anything but the most simplistic, easy, idiot-proof, risk free, no-thought-required strategies for anything, and even worse, are completely unwilling to even TRY anything different.
It's tojil, people were trio boxing that as brd mnk whm before alluvion yorcia even came out.

I've also seen a guy threebox Yorcia with his mythic SAM and BRD and WHM. Way to miss the goddamn point!

The point is that there is a wide variety of tactics, and therefore, jobs and job combinations, that are able to complete content, and even, shockingly, do it very well. However, those combinations require more goddamn thought than the MNK turning on autoattack and spamming "haste pls" in chat.
Point wasn't missed, your reference was the issue. It wasn't relevant when discussing jobs needed for difficult content. Which would in turn tailor specific jobs needed for such either for a smooth clean win or to speed up mass farming.
 Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
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By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2015-03-24 18:38:50
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Seraph.Ramyrez said: »
Asura.Psylo said: »
Pretty curious to test a AA normal fight with a gravity @ 90s + Bio III + poison II + some helix on ^^
like old day, maybe.

Yeah. Because boring the mob to death was always so impressive.

You sound like you hold some kind of ancient grudge that I could solo the majority of Sky while you spent 5 hours to gather pops and kill in your alliance, and finish the night earning nothing but points.
 Asura.Taidis
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By Asura.Taidis 2015-03-24 18:40:41
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Different combinations can work, no one will argue that, if players are good enough, you'll probably succeed.

Conversely while I was on Cerberus and I won't name names, but there was someone notorious for constantly making Delve PUGs with a very low success rate.
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By Chyula 2015-03-24 18:57:21
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Asura.Taidis said: »
Different combinations can work, no one will argue that, if players are good enough, you'll probably succeed.

Conversely while I was on Cerberus and I won't name names, but there was someone notorious for constantly making Delve PUGs with a very low success rate.

Never come back to Asura, the place is full of Trolls.
 Asura.Taidis
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By Asura.Taidis 2015-03-24 19:13:25
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Chyula said: »
Asura.Taidis said: »
Different combinations can work, no one will argue that, if players are good enough, you'll probably succeed.

Conversely while I was on Cerberus and I won't name names, but there was someone notorious for constantly making Delve PUGs with a very low success rate.

Never come back to Asura, the place is full of Trolls.
I'm on Asura, I came from Cerberus.
 Shiva.Alexcenders
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By Shiva.Alexcenders 2015-03-24 20:06:10
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Pwhaha !!! Well i'm telling you... I did many things Dualboxin and did the same ***with a 6member pt from shout(which wasn't filled with noobish) and succeed more than FEW dozens times dualboxin and with 4 more member.... well, it makes me sad to see that such ppl still don't listen to what I have to say... FK OFF WIKI or w/e your source... best is to rush alone and test it all yourself drop%, luck versus your tactic and EVERY little details that most won't even notice unless it's written here or wiki! The only reason why i haven't tried to quadbox Delves is becuz: when i do things i learn from my mistake and i know what i need to slightly succeed in my objectives and right now, I need skill up and missions and etc... phew
Going my way, back in 2011 or 2012, RmT offered me 60x 8.99$ Can or 60x7.99$ U.S for a rush of nonstop 24hours aby thingy for empy weapon and such... not as BLUE MAGE, not as whatever you're used to cleave.... Ninja/war + ( it started with blm30/whm15) and blablabla in ur head all u want, by the time BlU had buffed himself and started nuking, i was allrdy 15~30% hp remaining on all mob... all that while i had enough time to go pee in the other room without stress and thats also even on Nms for Empy weapons... my point is ... don't listen to what the others says cuz they read it, copy pasted it but still lack the knowledge of the things that made the setup works...

YOUR WAY IS THE BEST

as long as it makes u keep going forward... 'n smily
 Asura.Ivlilla
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By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-03-24 22:05:53
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Asura.Loire said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Asura.Loire said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Never understood the need to be different. Just go with the flow and level the jobs needed. Whining about not being able to come a specific job is getting old.

Yes, 95% of the game's population being WHM SAM MNK BRD PLD RNG SCH, and the other 5% being all the other jobs is really great.

What a wonderful world that would be.

You get the special banana sticker.

I think you said that sarcastically but really its the truth. Having the jobs that are needed to complete content is so much better then just sitting there in the dark whining about not being invited.

Yeah, what you might not be aware of is there are OTHER JOBS that can complete that exact same content.

I did a DNC DRK MNK WHM GEO GEO run of Tojil the other day. Went amazingly well. I also did some DNC PUP MNK SCH BRD RDM runs. They went amazingly well, too.

It turns out that there are a wide variety of jobs capable of competing in, and completing, end game content. The problem is that these "wrong" jobs and "wrong" job combinations require effort, teamwork, and intelligence to work.

The problem is a large portion of this game's playerbase is made up of narrowminded simpletons who are incapable of doing anything but the most simplistic, easy, idiot-proof, risk free, no-thought-required strategies for anything, and even worse, are completely unwilling to even TRY anything different.
It's tojil, people were trio boxing that as brd mnk whm before alluvion yorcia even came out.

I've also seen a guy threebox Yorcia with his mythic SAM and BRD and WHM. Way to miss the goddamn point!

The point is that there is a wide variety of tactics, and therefore, jobs and job combinations, that are able to complete content, and even, shockingly, do it very well. However, those combinations require more goddamn thought than the MNK turning on autoattack and spamming "haste pls" in chat.
Point wasn't missed, your reference was the issue. It wasn't relevant when discussing jobs needed for difficult content. Which would in turn tailor specific jobs needed for such either for a smooth clean win or to speed up mass farming.

No, actually, you still completely miss the point, and your attitude is an example of what is wrong with this game.
[+]
 Asura.Loire
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By Asura.Loire 2015-03-24 22:38:29
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Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Asura.Loire said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Asura.Loire said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Never understood the need to be different. Just go with the flow and level the jobs needed. Whining about not being able to come a specific job is getting old.

Yes, 95% of the game's population being WHM SAM MNK BRD PLD RNG SCH, and the other 5% being all the other jobs is really great.

What a wonderful world that would be.

You get the special banana sticker.

I think you said that sarcastically but really its the truth. Having the jobs that are needed to complete content is so much better then just sitting there in the dark whining about not being invited.

Yeah, what you might not be aware of is there are OTHER JOBS that can complete that exact same content.

I did a DNC DRK MNK WHM GEO GEO run of Tojil the other day. Went amazingly well. I also did some DNC PUP MNK SCH BRD RDM runs. They went amazingly well, too.

It turns out that there are a wide variety of jobs capable of competing in, and completing, end game content. The problem is that these "wrong" jobs and "wrong" job combinations require effort, teamwork, and intelligence to work.

The problem is a large portion of this game's playerbase is made up of narrowminded simpletons who are incapable of doing anything but the most simplistic, easy, idiot-proof, risk free, no-thought-required strategies for anything, and even worse, are completely unwilling to even TRY anything different.
It's tojil, people were trio boxing that as brd mnk whm before alluvion yorcia even came out.

I've also seen a guy threebox Yorcia with his mythic SAM and BRD and WHM. Way to miss the goddamn point!

The point is that there is a wide variety of tactics, and therefore, jobs and job combinations, that are able to complete content, and even, shockingly, do it very well. However, those combinations require more goddamn thought than the MNK turning on autoattack and spamming "haste pls" in chat.
Point wasn't missed, your reference was the issue. It wasn't relevant when discussing jobs needed for difficult content. Which would in turn tailor specific jobs needed for such either for a smooth clean win or to speed up mass farming.

No, actually, you still completely miss the point, and your attitude is an example of what is wrong with this game.
And again you just don't seem to understand, those fights you can take anything to, its not an issue. At this stage nearly all the high tiers you can take any job and it still won't be an issue. IF however you want to challenge the hardest difficulty on incursion you are going to more than likely tailor the jobs to decide to bring along. IF you are deciding to be efficient with your time to complete events you will tailor specific jobs to complete it. Otherwise your choice to bring which job is entirely on if you yourself are able to convince the other 5 people or more coming along that you are capable to complete the event. Unfortunately your naivete only goes so far but at this level most should be able to see what you are capable of.
 Asura.Ivlilla
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By Asura.Ivlilla 2015-03-24 23:36:59
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Nope, you're still missing the point.
 Siren.Sieha
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By Siren.Sieha 2015-03-24 23:48:21
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Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Never understood the need to be different. Just go with the flow and level the jobs needed. Whining about not being able to come a specific job is getting old.

Yes, 95% of the game's population being WHM SAM MNK BRD PLD RNG SCH, and the other 5% being all the other jobs is really great.

What a wonderful world that would be.

You get the special banana sticker.

I think you said that sarcastically but really its the truth. Having the jobs that are needed to complete content is so much better then just sitting there in the dark whining about not being invited.

Yeah, what you might not be aware of is there are OTHER JOBS that can complete that exact same content.

I did a DNC DRK MNK WHM GEO GEO run of Tojil the other day. Went amazingly well. I also did some DNC PUP MNK SCH BRD RDM runs. They went amazingly well, too.

It turns out that there are a wide variety of jobs capable of competing in, and completing, end game content. The problem is that these "wrong" jobs and "wrong" job combinations require effort, teamwork, and intelligence to work.

The problem is a large portion of this game's playerbase is made up of narrowminded simpletons who are incapable of doing anything but the most simplistic, easy, idiot-proof, risk free, no-thought-required strategies for anything, and even worse, are completely unwilling to even TRY anything different.

you must be one of those people who waited around until delve was easy.

when new content comes out, there is often a specific setup that works until you get gear from that event to even the odds.

people like you are just as much if not more narrow minded then people who use a specific setup.

oh no I can go drg, I'm going to go on the forums and *** about it.

The elites adapt and change with the times instead of being stubborn and half way to mental retardation in complaining that drk isnt a dd that is shouted for these days or the fact that it took an over powered ws to make dnc useful outside of a sub for dynamis farming.
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By Asura.Hoshiku 2015-03-24 23:52:59
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Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Nope, you're still missing the point.

I also am missing the point. Could you please explain it a bit more clearly?
[+]
 Asura.Loire
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By Asura.Loire 2015-03-24 23:55:43
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Asura.Hoshiku said: »
I also am missing the point. Could you please explain it a bit more clearly?
Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with this game.
[+]
 Asura.Hoshiku
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By Asura.Hoshiku 2015-03-24 23:56:56
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Asura.Loire said: »
Asura.Hoshiku said: »

I also am missing the point. Could you please explain it a bit more clearly?
Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with this game.

Whatever, your entire linkshell is full of jerks.
[+]
 Asura.Fiv
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By Asura.Fiv 2015-03-24 23:57:38
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Asura.Hoshiku said: »
Asura.Loire said: »
Asura.Hoshiku said: »

I also am missing the point. Could you please explain it a bit more clearly?
Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with this game.

Whatever, your entire linkshell is full of jerks.
Your attitude is worse then nutella on chicken.
 Asura.Hoshiku
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By Asura.Hoshiku 2015-03-25 00:00:53
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Asura.Fiv said: »
Asura.Hoshiku said: »
Asura.Loire said: »
Asura.Hoshiku said: »

I also am missing the point. Could you please explain it a bit more clearly?
Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with this game.

Whatever, your entire linkshell is full of jerks.
Your attitude is worse than nutella on chicken.

Fixed that for you <3
 Asura.Loire
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By Asura.Loire 2015-03-25 00:05:49
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Asura.Hoshiku said: »
Asura.Loire said: »
Asura.Hoshiku said: »

I also am missing the point. Could you please explain it a bit more clearly?
Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with this game.

Whatever, your entire linkshell is full of jerks.
[+]
 Asura.Fiv
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By Asura.Fiv 2015-03-25 00:06:00
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Asura.Hoshiku said: »
Asura.Fiv said: »
Asura.Hoshiku said: »
Asura.Loire said: »
Asura.Hoshiku said: »

I also am missing the point. Could you please explain it a bit more clearly?
Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with this game.

Whatever, your entire linkshell is full of jerks.
Your attitude is worse than nutella on chicken.

Fixed that for you <3
[+]
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By Ulthakptah 2015-03-25 00:26:19
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Asura.Fiv said: »
Asura.Hoshiku said: »
Asura.Loire said: »
Asura.Hoshiku said: »

I also am missing the point. Could you please explain it a bit more clearly?
Your attitude is exactly what is wrong with this game.

Whatever, your entire linkshell is full of jerks.
Your attitude is worse then nutella on chicken.
That actually sounds delectable. Put a nice glaze on it, then grill it. Sort of like barbecue chicken
 Carbuncle.Bukadan
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By Carbuncle.Bukadan 2015-03-25 02:38:18
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Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Asura.Ivlilla said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Never understood the need to be different. Just go with the flow and level the jobs needed. Whining about not being able to come a specific job is getting old.

Yes, 95% of the game's population being WHM SAM MNK BRD PLD RNG SCH, and the other 5% being all the other jobs is really great.

What a wonderful world that would be.

You get the special banana sticker.

I think you said that sarcastically but really its the truth. Having the jobs that are needed to complete content is so much better then just sitting there in the dark whining about not being invited.

Yeah, what you might not be aware of is there are OTHER JOBS that can complete that exact same content.

I did a DNC DRK MNK WHM GEO GEO run of Tojil the other day. Went amazingly well. I also did some DNC PUP MNK SCH BRD RDM runs. They went amazingly well, too.

It turns out that there are a wide variety of jobs capable of competing in, and completing, end game content. The problem is that these "wrong" jobs and "wrong" job combinations require effort, teamwork, and intelligence to work.

The problem is a large portion of this game's playerbase is made up of narrowminded simpletons who are incapable of doing anything but the most simplistic, easy, idiot-proof, risk free, no-thought-required strategies for anything, and even worse, are completely unwilling to even TRY anything different.

The problem is, a large portion of the playerbase is actually so bad, or unable to be depended on to fulfill their simple roles, that its actually easier to give them less roles or not take a person at all. i do tojils/trees/sharks/ect low man, some with rdm sam brd, some with maybe geo sch pup sam, or even smn run geo cor. they always complete faster than a full party that you'd get in a shout. everyone has to be doing their ***or you wont win. this is the funnest way to do delve, if you could even consider it that.


Leviathan.Krysten said: »
No delve is horrible its like AA fights very specific jobs that get invited/wanted to go, IMO skirmishes and WKR has been the best "group" content they've made latley, really Any job can do it and i like that, takes away elitism


the only thing about delve i like is they made the "outside version" those are alot more doable

im hoping this Vagry more of the same any job can do it not just Brd mnk sam war whm

You realize that if you got your way, that the content would be a complete joke right? You need to consider other perspectives before you post absolutes like that. it would be a complete joke because without buffers, a competent whm, competent dps(ones that have multiple sets, at the very *** least one for PDT and one for tp/ws) being needed, youll end up with essentially content that could be compared to "very easy" merit battles/hkcnm battles. a geo could go into those, put on their turtle sets, put up a combo of vex/attunement/wilt/barrier, and just spam aoe nukes till everythings dead. im pretty sure that isnt far from the truth if its not exactly spot on.
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Posts: 181
By Lyncath 2015-03-25 07:17:51
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You can be quite sure that once people find out the optimum setup and strategy for Vagary that will become the norm for a long time.

Sorry jobs that don't fit the impending paradigm, you're ***-out-of-luck.
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