Obamas War Without Congress Approval
Obamas war without congress approval
And what if there is life on Mars that is yet to be discovered. Do you really want an pissed off martian at your doorstep, I don't, I mean, look how well that worked out for Jack Nickleson.
Voren said: »
And what if there is life on Mars that is yet to be discovered. Do you really want an pissed off martian at your doorstep, I don't, I mean, look how well that worked out for Jack Nickleson.
It seemed to work out okay for Bugs Bunny.
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I wonder why we didn't just elect Tiger Woods. We'd still have the first black president, have someone just as capable of running a nation, and even with his injuries is a far better golfer than Barry could ever hope to be.
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This is not a pie chart your argument is invalid.
Bahamut.Refreshtwo said: »
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My god, would it kill you to just...oh I don't know, do a once-over before you post? Seriously reading your posts is just so hard on my eyes I feel like I'm going to die of like a blood vessel going haywire and bursting.
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Not only is Obama the best President of all time he is the epitome of high fashion.
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Are those supposed to be wounds to go with her fighting gloves or did she run into her Aunt Beatrice on the way out and get smooched a few times?
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I normally reserve an accusation like this until all the proof is there, but it seems like it's all spelled out. Obama and his administration, as well certain GOP senators, particularly John McCain and Lindsey Graham, are committing treason against the U.S. It's even worse than what Ronald Reagen ordered, as he technically had deniability in the issue.
Aiding an enemy of the state is treason, plain and simple.
Let's recap:
Source
The U.S. is officially at war with al-Qaeda and its affiliates. Got that part?
Obama orders U.S. airstrikes in Syria against Islamic State
Easy part to understand, Obama wants more American weapons and training to "moderate" Syrian rebels. More meaning that such actions have already taken place. You can look this up if you wish.
AP Analysis: US wary over hitting Syrian militants
Not definitive proof here as it's an AP analysis. However it does point out that The Nusra Front is in fact an al-Qaida branch and it's on the U.S. list of terrorists groups.
So what are the moderate groups that Obama has been funding, aiding, and plans to give more aid to?
There's two the U.S. talks about the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and the Islamic Front.
Let's take on the Islamic Front first.
Source
Not convinced? Do some digging on the the top members from the Islamic Front, confirmed to be backed by Saudi Arabia. It's the 'close ties' part the doubters might hold on to.
So now we have the Free Syrian Army.
FSA brigade 'joins al-Qaeda group' in Syria
The only counterargument I could see is that no more aid, money, and military support has been provided to the FSA since their official announcement to collaborate with the Nusra military.
But that's seems to be exactly what Obama wants to do now, is give "moderate" rebels more aid, money, and weapons in Syria.
It was treason then, and it's even more blatant treason now if they go ahead with it now, with Congressional support. The latter being the more definitive act yet.
There is NO rebel factions in Syria that is not either al-Qadea, an affiliate, or an affiliate of ISIL/ISIS/IS.
Still unsure? Keep digging, all the links are out if you still can't see what is going on in Syria.
The U.S. is arming its enemies as they attempt to fight them!
Aiding an enemy of the state is treason, plain and simple.
Let's recap:
Quote:
White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest on Friday said it was ISIL that had "indicated that they are ready to go to war against the world and this president, as is expected of American presidents, is stepping up to lead an international coalition to confront that threat."
He added, "Ultimately, this international coalition will be responsible for degrading and destroying ISIL. So I think what you can conclude from this is the United States is at war with ISIL the same way that we are at war with al Qaeda and al Qaeda affiliates all around the globe."
The Pentagon had a similar take.
The United States is at war with ISIL "in the same way we're at war and continue to be at war with al Qaeda and its affiliates," press secretary Rear Adm. John Kirby said.
He added, "Ultimately, this international coalition will be responsible for degrading and destroying ISIL. So I think what you can conclude from this is the United States is at war with ISIL the same way that we are at war with al Qaeda and al Qaeda affiliates all around the globe."
The Pentagon had a similar take.
The United States is at war with ISIL "in the same way we're at war and continue to be at war with al Qaeda and its affiliates," press secretary Rear Adm. John Kirby said.
The U.S. is officially at war with al-Qaeda and its affiliates. Got that part?
Quote:
Obama asked Congress to authorize $500 million to train and arm “moderate” Syrian rebels. The training would take place in Saudi Arabia.
It is unclear whether more American weapons and training can shift the battlefield balance toward the U.S.-backed rebels, who are badly outgunned by Islamic State, other militant groups and Assad's forces.
A vote on the money would put lawmakers on record supporting the military action, although White House officials stressed Obama already had the authority he needed for the new moves.
It is unclear whether more American weapons and training can shift the battlefield balance toward the U.S.-backed rebels, who are badly outgunned by Islamic State, other militant groups and Assad's forces.
A vote on the money would put lawmakers on record supporting the military action, although White House officials stressed Obama already had the authority he needed for the new moves.
Easy part to understand, Obama wants more American weapons and training to "moderate" Syrian rebels. More meaning that such actions have already taken place. You can look this up if you wish.
Quote:
The U.S. and its allies are trying to hammer out a coalition to push back the Islamic State group in Iraq. But any serious attempt to destroy the militants or even seriously degrade their capabilities means targeting their infrastructure in Syria.
That, however, is far more complicated. If it launches airstrikes against the group in Syria, the U.S. runs the risk of unintentionally strengthening the hand of President Bashar Assad, whose removal the West has actively sought the past three years. Uprooting the Islamic State group, which has seized roughly a third of Syria and Iraq, may potentially open the way for the Syrian army to fill the vacuum.
The alternative would be to finally get serious about arming the mainstream Western-backed rebels fighting to topple Assad. But there is a reason the administration of President Barack Obama has been deeply reluctant to throw its weight behind them.
The relatively moderate rebel factions fighting in Syria are in tatters. There are no secular groups, and the strongest factions are Islamic groups, many of which work with al-Qaida's official branch in Syria, the Nusra Front.
The Nusra Front, which has somewhat dropped from international headlines because of the Islamic State group's exceeding brutality, is on the U.S. list of terrorist groups and is still very active.
It and other rebels recently seized the Quneitra border crossing between Syria and the Israeli-held Golan Heights, taking 45 United Nations peacekeepers hostage. It was also among a group of militants that recently overran a Lebanese border town and is holding several Lebanese soldiers and policemen captive.
That, however, is far more complicated. If it launches airstrikes against the group in Syria, the U.S. runs the risk of unintentionally strengthening the hand of President Bashar Assad, whose removal the West has actively sought the past three years. Uprooting the Islamic State group, which has seized roughly a third of Syria and Iraq, may potentially open the way for the Syrian army to fill the vacuum.
The alternative would be to finally get serious about arming the mainstream Western-backed rebels fighting to topple Assad. But there is a reason the administration of President Barack Obama has been deeply reluctant to throw its weight behind them.
The relatively moderate rebel factions fighting in Syria are in tatters. There are no secular groups, and the strongest factions are Islamic groups, many of which work with al-Qaida's official branch in Syria, the Nusra Front.
The Nusra Front, which has somewhat dropped from international headlines because of the Islamic State group's exceeding brutality, is on the U.S. list of terrorist groups and is still very active.
It and other rebels recently seized the Quneitra border crossing between Syria and the Israeli-held Golan Heights, taking 45 United Nations peacekeepers hostage. It was also among a group of militants that recently overran a Lebanese border town and is holding several Lebanese soldiers and policemen captive.
Not definitive proof here as it's an AP analysis. However it does point out that The Nusra Front is in fact an al-Qaida branch and it's on the U.S. list of terrorists groups.
So what are the moderate groups that Obama has been funding, aiding, and plans to give more aid to?
There's two the U.S. talks about the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and the Islamic Front.
Let's take on the Islamic Front first.
Quote:
While the Obama administration is fearful of the rise of Sunni extremism in the Syrian rebel ranks, an increase in Saudi Arabia’s gloves-off support of militant Sunni factions is further undercutting the Western-backed and more moderate Free Syrian Army (FSA)—which is near to collapse—benefiting not only radical Islamists but also al-Qaeda affiliates in Syria who have close ties with the Saudi-backed Islamic Front.
In early December, the head of the FSA, the high-level defector General Salim Idriss, fled to Turkey when units of the Islamic Front occupied FSA warehouses on the border with Turkey that contained American-supplied equipment such as trucks, food, medicine and communications equipment including laptops and radios.
The suspension of non-lethal aid to rebels in northern Syria last week by the Obama administration and Britain in response to the raid underscored Western fears of their supplies ending up in the hands of extremist rebel groups.
In early December, the head of the FSA, the high-level defector General Salim Idriss, fled to Turkey when units of the Islamic Front occupied FSA warehouses on the border with Turkey that contained American-supplied equipment such as trucks, food, medicine and communications equipment including laptops and radios.
The suspension of non-lethal aid to rebels in northern Syria last week by the Obama administration and Britain in response to the raid underscored Western fears of their supplies ending up in the hands of extremist rebel groups.
Not convinced? Do some digging on the the top members from the Islamic Front, confirmed to be backed by Saudi Arabia. It's the 'close ties' part the doubters might hold on to.
So now we have the Free Syrian Army.
Quote:
Hundreds of fighters under the command of the opposition Free Syrian Army (FSA) have reportedly switched allegiance to al-Qaeda-aligned groups, in a move described as a huge blow to moderate rebel forces.
Activists and military sources have told Al Jazeera that the 11th Division - one of the biggest FSA brigades - has switched allegiance to the al-Nusra Front in Raqqah province, a border province with Turkey.
...
The Reuters news agency, citing sources inside Syria, also reported that entire units of the FSA had joined Nusra and the ISIS in recent days.
The Raqqah Revolutionaries - which is part of the 11th Division - has about 750 fighters in total, according to a source close to al-Qaeda linked forces.
Abdulhamid Zakarya, military spokesman of Chiefs of Staff of the FSA, denied that Division 11 had joined Nusra. However, he said it had signed an agreement to collaborate in military operations.
Activists and military sources have told Al Jazeera that the 11th Division - one of the biggest FSA brigades - has switched allegiance to the al-Nusra Front in Raqqah province, a border province with Turkey.
...
The Reuters news agency, citing sources inside Syria, also reported that entire units of the FSA had joined Nusra and the ISIS in recent days.
The Raqqah Revolutionaries - which is part of the 11th Division - has about 750 fighters in total, according to a source close to al-Qaeda linked forces.
Abdulhamid Zakarya, military spokesman of Chiefs of Staff of the FSA, denied that Division 11 had joined Nusra. However, he said it had signed an agreement to collaborate in military operations.
The only counterargument I could see is that no more aid, money, and military support has been provided to the FSA since their official announcement to collaborate with the Nusra military.
But that's seems to be exactly what Obama wants to do now, is give "moderate" rebels more aid, money, and weapons in Syria.
It was treason then, and it's even more blatant treason now if they go ahead with it now, with Congressional support. The latter being the more definitive act yet.
There is NO rebel factions in Syria that is not either al-Qadea, an affiliate, or an affiliate of ISIL/ISIS/IS.
Still unsure? Keep digging, all the links are out if you still can't see what is going on in Syria.
The U.S. is arming its enemies as they attempt to fight them!
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
The only counterargument I could see is that no more aid, money, and military support has been provided to the FSA since their official announcement to collaborate with the Nusra military.
But that's seems to be exactly what Obama wants to do now, is give "moderate" rebels more aid, money, and weapons in Syria.
It was treason then, and it's even more blatant treason now if they go ahead with it now, with Congressional support. The latter being the more definitive act yet.
But that's seems to be exactly what Obama wants to do now, is give "moderate" rebels more aid, money, and weapons in Syria.
Nice of you to post the counterargument that thoroughly destroys your entire rant, nobody even has to do anything. We cut them off as soon as they signed with Nusra. Done.
And the icing on the cake for the entire situation:
ISIS Strikes Deal With Moderate Syrian Rebels: Reports
Quote:
As the United States begins to deepen ties with moderate Syrian rebels to combat the extremist group ISIS, also known as the Islamic State, a key component of its coalition appears to have struck a non-aggression pact with the group.
According to Agence France-Presse, ISIS and a number of moderate and hard-line rebel groups have agreed not to fight each other so that they can focus on taking down the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad. Other sources say the signatories include a major U.S. ally linked to the Free Syrian Army. Moreover, the leader of the Free Syrian Army said Saturday that the group would not take part in U.S. plans for destroying the Islamic State until it got assurances on toppling Assad.
The deal between ISIS and the moderate Syrian groups casts doubt over President Barack Obama's freshly announced strategy to arm and train the groups against ISIS.
The AFP report cited information from the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a U.K.-based group monitoring the Syrian civil war, which said parties to the agreement "promise not to attack each other because they consider the principal enemy to be the Nussayri regime." The term Nussayri refers to the Alawite ethnic group that Assad and many of his supporters belong to. AFP said the agreement was signed in a suburb of the Syrian capital, where ISIS has a strong presence.
Charles Lister, a fellow at the Brookings Institution's Doha Center, cited a report from the anti-regime Orient Net website to suggest on Twitter that the signatories of the ceasefire include a U.S.-backed coalition called the Syrian Revolutionary Front. According to the U.K.-based outlet Middle East Eye, that same Orient Net report says the ceasefire between groups described in the U.S. as "moderate rebels" and the Islamic State was mediated by the al-Nusra Front, al Qaeda's affiliate in Syria.
According to Agence France-Presse, ISIS and a number of moderate and hard-line rebel groups have agreed not to fight each other so that they can focus on taking down the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad. Other sources say the signatories include a major U.S. ally linked to the Free Syrian Army. Moreover, the leader of the Free Syrian Army said Saturday that the group would not take part in U.S. plans for destroying the Islamic State until it got assurances on toppling Assad.
The deal between ISIS and the moderate Syrian groups casts doubt over President Barack Obama's freshly announced strategy to arm and train the groups against ISIS.
The AFP report cited information from the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a U.K.-based group monitoring the Syrian civil war, which said parties to the agreement "promise not to attack each other because they consider the principal enemy to be the Nussayri regime." The term Nussayri refers to the Alawite ethnic group that Assad and many of his supporters belong to. AFP said the agreement was signed in a suburb of the Syrian capital, where ISIS has a strong presence.
Charles Lister, a fellow at the Brookings Institution's Doha Center, cited a report from the anti-regime Orient Net website to suggest on Twitter that the signatories of the ceasefire include a U.S.-backed coalition called the Syrian Revolutionary Front. According to the U.K.-based outlet Middle East Eye, that same Orient Net report says the ceasefire between groups described in the U.S. as "moderate rebels" and the Islamic State was mediated by the al-Nusra Front, al Qaeda's affiliate in Syria.
He's not a native speaker, I mean it's broken as hell but it's been like that for years.
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
The only counterargument I could see is that no more aid, money, and military support has been provided to the FSA since their official announcement to collaborate with the Nusra military.
But that's seems to be exactly what Obama wants to do now, is give "moderate" rebels more aid, money, and weapons in Syria.
It was treason then, and it's even more blatant treason now if they go ahead with it now, with Congressional support. The latter being the more definitive act yet.
But that's seems to be exactly what Obama wants to do now, is give "moderate" rebels more aid, money, and weapons in Syria.
Nice of you to post the counterargument that thoroughly destroys your entire rant, nobody even has to do anything. We cut them off as soon as they signed with Nusra. Done.
Thoroughly? Not by a long shot.
The U.S. cutoff non-lethal aid to the Free Syrian Army (FSA)
Quote:
The United States and Britain have suspended all non-lethal assistance into northern Syria after Islamic extremist forces seized the headquarters and warehouses belonging to the opposition's Supreme Military Council (SMC), U.S. officials confirmed to CBS News on Wednesday.
The rebel Free Syrian Army fighting President Bashar al-Assad said the U.S. and British moves were rushed and mistaken. "We hope our friends will rethink and wait for a few days when things will be clearer," FSA spokesman Louay Meqdad said.
The suspension underlines a crisis for the FSA leadership which needs international backing to reinforce its credibility and to stop its fighters joining powerful al Qaeda-backed Islamist militants who now dominate the war with Assad.
The United States and Britain have in the past offered radios, body armor, medical supplies, money and food to rebels fighting Assad, but a U.S. embassy spokesman in Turkey declined to give details of what supplies may have been halted.
Fighters from the Islamic Front, a union of six major rebel groups, took control of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) bases at the Bab al-Hawa crossing on Syria's northwestern border with Turkey late on Friday.
The rebel Free Syrian Army fighting President Bashar al-Assad said the U.S. and British moves were rushed and mistaken. "We hope our friends will rethink and wait for a few days when things will be clearer," FSA spokesman Louay Meqdad said.
The suspension underlines a crisis for the FSA leadership which needs international backing to reinforce its credibility and to stop its fighters joining powerful al Qaeda-backed Islamist militants who now dominate the war with Assad.
The United States and Britain have in the past offered radios, body armor, medical supplies, money and food to rebels fighting Assad, but a U.S. embassy spokesman in Turkey declined to give details of what supplies may have been halted.
Fighters from the Islamic Front, a union of six major rebel groups, took control of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) bases at the Bab al-Hawa crossing on Syria's northwestern border with Turkey late on Friday.
Non lethal aid was resumed in January.
Quote:
The United States has restarted deliveries of nonlethal aid to the Syrian opposition, officials said Monday, more than a month after Al-Qaida-linked militants seized warehouses and prompted a sudden cutoff of Western supplies to the rebels.
The communications equipment and other items are being funneled for now only to non-armed opposition groups, said the U.S. officials.
The communications equipment and other items are being funneled for now only to non-armed opposition groups, said the U.S. officials.
What about lethal aid?
Quote:
Light arms supplied by the United States are flowing to "moderate" Syrian rebel factions in the south of the country and U.S. funding for months of further deliveries has been approved by Congress, according U.S. and European security officials.
The weapons, most of which are moving to non-Islamist Syrian rebels via Jordan, include a variety of small arms, as well as some more powerful weapons, such as anti-tank rockets.
The deliveries do not include weapons such as shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles, known as MANPADs, which could shoot down military or civilian aircraft, the officials said.
The weapons deliveries have been funded by the U.S. Congress, in votes behind closed doors, through the end of government fiscal year 2014, which ends on September 30, two officials said.
The apparently steady weapons flow contrasts with the situation last summer, when lethal U.S. aid to the Syrian rebels dried up for a time due to congressional reservations.
Congressional committees held up weapons deliveries for months over fears that U.S. arms would not prove decisive in the rebels' efforts to oust President Bashar Assad and his government and could well end up in the hands of Islamist militants.
A U.S. official familiar with recent developments said national security officials and members of Congress are more confident that weapons delivered to southern Syria are going to, and remaining in, the hands of moderate rebels rather than militant jihadist factions.
Congress approved funding for weapons deliveries to the Syrian rebels in classified sections of defense appropriations legislation, two sources familiar with the matter said. It was not clear when the funding was approved, but unclassified defense funding passed Congress in late December.
Some additional budget tweaks may be necessary to ensure that all the approved funding is fully available for disbursement during the current fiscal year.
Yet, officials who support providing U.S. arms to the rebels acknowledge that this has not greatly increased U.S. expectations of victory by anti-Assad forces, whether moderate or militant.
"The Syrian war is a stalemate. The rebels lack the organization and weapons to defeat Assad; the regime lacks the loyal manpower to suppress the rebellion. Both sides' external allies... are ready to supply enough money and arms to fuel the stalemate for the foreseeable future," said Bruce Riedel, a former senior CIA analyst and sometime foreign policy adviser to President Barack Obama.
Both U.S. and European officials said that "moderate" rebels had recently consolidated their positions in the Syrian south, where they are pushing out elements linked to al-Qaeda. More militant factions remain dominant in the north and east.
Another recent development favorable to more moderate factions is that Kurdish groups that had been providing weapons and other aid financed by donors in the Gulf state of Qatar indiscriminately to both moderate and religious extremist rebel factions had greatly reduced their involvement in the arms traffic, one of the officials said.
A White House spokeswoman had no comment. Other U.S. agencies did not respond to requests for comment.
The weapons, most of which are moving to non-Islamist Syrian rebels via Jordan, include a variety of small arms, as well as some more powerful weapons, such as anti-tank rockets.
The deliveries do not include weapons such as shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles, known as MANPADs, which could shoot down military or civilian aircraft, the officials said.
The weapons deliveries have been funded by the U.S. Congress, in votes behind closed doors, through the end of government fiscal year 2014, which ends on September 30, two officials said.
The apparently steady weapons flow contrasts with the situation last summer, when lethal U.S. aid to the Syrian rebels dried up for a time due to congressional reservations.
Congressional committees held up weapons deliveries for months over fears that U.S. arms would not prove decisive in the rebels' efforts to oust President Bashar Assad and his government and could well end up in the hands of Islamist militants.
A U.S. official familiar with recent developments said national security officials and members of Congress are more confident that weapons delivered to southern Syria are going to, and remaining in, the hands of moderate rebels rather than militant jihadist factions.
Congress approved funding for weapons deliveries to the Syrian rebels in classified sections of defense appropriations legislation, two sources familiar with the matter said. It was not clear when the funding was approved, but unclassified defense funding passed Congress in late December.
Some additional budget tweaks may be necessary to ensure that all the approved funding is fully available for disbursement during the current fiscal year.
Yet, officials who support providing U.S. arms to the rebels acknowledge that this has not greatly increased U.S. expectations of victory by anti-Assad forces, whether moderate or militant.
"The Syrian war is a stalemate. The rebels lack the organization and weapons to defeat Assad; the regime lacks the loyal manpower to suppress the rebellion. Both sides' external allies... are ready to supply enough money and arms to fuel the stalemate for the foreseeable future," said Bruce Riedel, a former senior CIA analyst and sometime foreign policy adviser to President Barack Obama.
Both U.S. and European officials said that "moderate" rebels had recently consolidated their positions in the Syrian south, where they are pushing out elements linked to al-Qaeda. More militant factions remain dominant in the north and east.
Another recent development favorable to more moderate factions is that Kurdish groups that had been providing weapons and other aid financed by donors in the Gulf state of Qatar indiscriminately to both moderate and religious extremist rebel factions had greatly reduced their involvement in the arms traffic, one of the officials said.
A White House spokeswoman had no comment. Other U.S. agencies did not respond to requests for comment.
So
Nowhere in your article does it say the FSA was sent lethal aid. It just says "moderate" rebels, thats a huge distinction. Don't tell me you are one of those people that think its just one group of rebels?
As for the alliance between FSA and Nursa itself...
I could only find one 'quarrel.'
Source
They mention a stronger FSA will fight al-Qaeda, but until then they are allies.
As it stands FSA is an ally with Nursa and has been aided by the U.S. with congressional approval.
I could only find one 'quarrel.'
Quote:
As regime planes and helicopters ratchet up a massive offensive now in its second week, alliances in southern Syria’s rebel-held ground are beginning to shift under the weight of increasing foreign support and long-simmering ideological differences.
The relationship between al Qaeda franchise al Nusra Front and the moderate, secular Free Syrian Army (FSA) has, at least in the southwestern city of Daraa, been fairly high functioning. The two groups have long fought alongside one another against the Syrian regime. They also have close family ties: in Daraa, many of the men who fight with the FSA have friends and kin who fight with Nusra.
But over the past weeks a combination of internal and external factors have dialled up the tension on a relationship that was complicated to begin with.
“It’s as close as possible to the Cold War right now,” Chief of Operations for the al-Omari Brigade Malouh al-A'esh told VICE News.
His brigade, part of the Syria Rebels Front, is one of several moderate FSA factions in Daraa to have recently been gifted with American-made TOW — tube-launched, optically-tracked, wire-guide — missiles.
These wire-guided anti-tank missiles, capable of piercing the armor of any vehicle used by the Syrian army, aren’t game-changers in the usual sense: the regime still owns the air. But they have unsettled the checks and balances that enabled the secular FSA and jihadist Nusra to coexist so easily for so long.
Nusra's identity is in flux. While for much of the war it has been the better-armed and better-funded fighting group — something that helped it attract fighters — that is no longer necessarily the case. Some parts of the FSA are now much more heavily armed, and the American weapons they’re fighting with are a stark reminder of America’s interests in this war.
“For US intelligence, the primary concern is jihadism — that al Qaeda could get a permanent place in Syria,” Josh Landis, director of the Center of Middle East Studies at the University of Oklahoma told VICE News. “But al Qaeda is doing this, and America is worried.”
So far, despite the fact that the FSA’s biggest backer wants to take down its erstwhile ally, those factions that have received US support have kept their eyes on the prize — eliminating the Assad regime.
“The primary objective is the fight against the regime, until we achieve the liberation of Syria. Any problems or obstacles that take us away from this goal will be treated with firmness,” said al-A'esh.
One of those problems is rapidly becoming the elephant in the room: the ongoing detention of a high-ranking FSA commander, Colonel Ahmed al-Ni’ma.
Members of Nusra had arrested al-Ni’ma and several others in early May, accusing the colonel of throwing the strategically vital May 2013 Battle of Khirbet Ghazaleh to the regime at the request of foreign backers.
Several of the FSA’s more moderate factions — including the Yarmouk Division, another group to have received American TOWs — quickly posted a statement online, calling off collaboration between the FSA and Nusra. Signatories included 59 separate factions and the catch all “all factions operating in the southern front.”
But as quickly as the statement was posted, it was removed — some factions did not stand behind it. Rather than driving a wedge between the FSA and Nusra, the incident exposed some of the differences bubbling just below the surface in the collection of groups that fight under the banner of the FSA.
After nearly two weeks of heavy fire from their shared enemy, the relationship between the two rebel groups seems to be holding — but its strength depends on who you ask.
“Fighters from the FSA and Nusra work together in the free areas and relations between them are very natural,” Mohammed Ktefan, a Nusra fighter from Daraa, told VICE News.
Ktefan described the ongoing battle in Nawa and the recent battle in Manshia, in the countryside around Daraa, as examples of the FSA and Nusra fighting together.
“This talk about controversies and clashes is just propaganda. It doesn’t exist on the ground,” he said.
But on the ground in Lajat, in the northeast of Daraa province, al-A’esh had a very different take on things.
“Currently there is cooperation between Nusra and some factions of the FSA, where these factions lack ammunition and heavy weapons,” he said. “This is happening now in Nawa and it happened previously in the battle of Manshia.”
Fighters fight where the heavy weapons are, agreed an activist from the Tahrir Souri media network, who operates anonymously for his own and his family’s protection. Any FSA-Nusra collaboration that’s happening now isn’t about ideological tolerance, he said, but about a means to an end — specifically to the Assad regime.
“At the beginning, all the FSA fighters who joined Nusra did so because it was better-funded, had better weapons, and was more organised. It offered a better chance to defend your country. But once another alternative presents itself, the more moderate Syrian members of al-Nusra will come back.”
When and how they do seems to depend on the flow of Western weapons into the country — something this activist believes has the potential to turn the war around.
“Maybe it’s not too late to fix the problems caused by the delay in helping the rebels,” he said. “Once the right people are armed, the moderates will go back to the FSA and a stronger FSA will fight the regime and al Qaeda.”
For now, commanders like al-A’esh are most concerned with keeping the “Cold War” between the FSA and Nusra from getting hot.
“Right now the most tense areas are East Ghariyah and al-Karak, where there have been demonstrations against the arrests,” he said. “There are efforts by some dignitaries to mediate with Nusra and resolve this problem.
“God forbid there would be a war between the FSA and Nusra. It would be a disaster for everyone, and a victory for the regime.”
The relationship between al Qaeda franchise al Nusra Front and the moderate, secular Free Syrian Army (FSA) has, at least in the southwestern city of Daraa, been fairly high functioning. The two groups have long fought alongside one another against the Syrian regime. They also have close family ties: in Daraa, many of the men who fight with the FSA have friends and kin who fight with Nusra.
But over the past weeks a combination of internal and external factors have dialled up the tension on a relationship that was complicated to begin with.
“It’s as close as possible to the Cold War right now,” Chief of Operations for the al-Omari Brigade Malouh al-A'esh told VICE News.
His brigade, part of the Syria Rebels Front, is one of several moderate FSA factions in Daraa to have recently been gifted with American-made TOW — tube-launched, optically-tracked, wire-guide — missiles.
These wire-guided anti-tank missiles, capable of piercing the armor of any vehicle used by the Syrian army, aren’t game-changers in the usual sense: the regime still owns the air. But they have unsettled the checks and balances that enabled the secular FSA and jihadist Nusra to coexist so easily for so long.
Nusra's identity is in flux. While for much of the war it has been the better-armed and better-funded fighting group — something that helped it attract fighters — that is no longer necessarily the case. Some parts of the FSA are now much more heavily armed, and the American weapons they’re fighting with are a stark reminder of America’s interests in this war.
“For US intelligence, the primary concern is jihadism — that al Qaeda could get a permanent place in Syria,” Josh Landis, director of the Center of Middle East Studies at the University of Oklahoma told VICE News. “But al Qaeda is doing this, and America is worried.”
So far, despite the fact that the FSA’s biggest backer wants to take down its erstwhile ally, those factions that have received US support have kept their eyes on the prize — eliminating the Assad regime.
“The primary objective is the fight against the regime, until we achieve the liberation of Syria. Any problems or obstacles that take us away from this goal will be treated with firmness,” said al-A'esh.
One of those problems is rapidly becoming the elephant in the room: the ongoing detention of a high-ranking FSA commander, Colonel Ahmed al-Ni’ma.
Members of Nusra had arrested al-Ni’ma and several others in early May, accusing the colonel of throwing the strategically vital May 2013 Battle of Khirbet Ghazaleh to the regime at the request of foreign backers.
Several of the FSA’s more moderate factions — including the Yarmouk Division, another group to have received American TOWs — quickly posted a statement online, calling off collaboration between the FSA and Nusra. Signatories included 59 separate factions and the catch all “all factions operating in the southern front.”
But as quickly as the statement was posted, it was removed — some factions did not stand behind it. Rather than driving a wedge between the FSA and Nusra, the incident exposed some of the differences bubbling just below the surface in the collection of groups that fight under the banner of the FSA.
After nearly two weeks of heavy fire from their shared enemy, the relationship between the two rebel groups seems to be holding — but its strength depends on who you ask.
“Fighters from the FSA and Nusra work together in the free areas and relations between them are very natural,” Mohammed Ktefan, a Nusra fighter from Daraa, told VICE News.
Ktefan described the ongoing battle in Nawa and the recent battle in Manshia, in the countryside around Daraa, as examples of the FSA and Nusra fighting together.
“This talk about controversies and clashes is just propaganda. It doesn’t exist on the ground,” he said.
But on the ground in Lajat, in the northeast of Daraa province, al-A’esh had a very different take on things.
“Currently there is cooperation between Nusra and some factions of the FSA, where these factions lack ammunition and heavy weapons,” he said. “This is happening now in Nawa and it happened previously in the battle of Manshia.”
Fighters fight where the heavy weapons are, agreed an activist from the Tahrir Souri media network, who operates anonymously for his own and his family’s protection. Any FSA-Nusra collaboration that’s happening now isn’t about ideological tolerance, he said, but about a means to an end — specifically to the Assad regime.
“At the beginning, all the FSA fighters who joined Nusra did so because it was better-funded, had better weapons, and was more organised. It offered a better chance to defend your country. But once another alternative presents itself, the more moderate Syrian members of al-Nusra will come back.”
When and how they do seems to depend on the flow of Western weapons into the country — something this activist believes has the potential to turn the war around.
“Maybe it’s not too late to fix the problems caused by the delay in helping the rebels,” he said. “Once the right people are armed, the moderates will go back to the FSA and a stronger FSA will fight the regime and al Qaeda.”
For now, commanders like al-A’esh are most concerned with keeping the “Cold War” between the FSA and Nusra from getting hot.
“Right now the most tense areas are East Ghariyah and al-Karak, where there have been demonstrations against the arrests,” he said. “There are efforts by some dignitaries to mediate with Nusra and resolve this problem.
“God forbid there would be a war between the FSA and Nusra. It would be a disaster for everyone, and a victory for the regime.”
They mention a stronger FSA will fight al-Qaeda, but until then they are allies.
As it stands FSA is an ally with Nursa and has been aided by the U.S. with congressional approval.
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Nowhere in your article does it say the FSA was sent lethal aid. It just says "moderate" rebels, thats a huge distinction. Don't tell me you are one of those people that think its just one group of rebels?
No where did I say there was only one group of rebels. I've made it a point of going over each faction that the U.S. could possibly support.
Name me one "moderate" rebel faction that isn't terrorist affiliated.
Then you might have a counter argument.
I don't need a counterargument. I need you to provide a link that says the FSA has been aided by the US since signing an agreement with Nursa. I also need a link that says the US is planning to arm and train the FSA. I'm not helping you. So far you have not provided any articles that come close to supporting your treason allegation, which as of now is just a conspiracy theory.
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
I don't need a counterargument. I need you to provide a link that says the FSA has been aided by the US since signing an agreement with Nursa. I also need a link that says the US is planning to arm and train the FSA. I'm not helping you. So far you have not provided any articles that come close to supporting your treason allegation, which as of now is just a conspiracy theory.
The news has been highly vetted to not make this direct link.
Well here's the thing. The FSA has become an umbrella group since it's come back. It's now composed of many groups rather than fronts (north, south, east, west?). Two of those groups are Harakat Hazm and the Syrian Revolutionary Front (SRF).
Got that? Harakat Hazm and SRF are apart of the FSA.
Quote:
In mid-April, web videos began to surface showing Syrian rebel unit Harakat Hazm (Steadfastness Movement) employing U.S.-designed antitank guided missiles in Idlib province. The use of these TOW (tube-launched, optically tracked, wire-guided) missiles indicates that the United States and/or one of its TOW-equipped allies have provided lethal aid to the group. Videos of two other groups with TOWs have appeared, but Harakat Hazm seems to have received the most, or at least posted the most videos of them in action.
Quote:
Western support for Maarouf and other moderate rebel groups reached a high point earlier this year, when the SRF was the recipient of significant aid from the US and its allies in order to fight the ultra-extremist and one-time al-Qa’ida affiliate Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis).
Quote:
It has also militarily fought, and defeated, a number of localized factions affiliated with a principal recipient of Western military assistance, the Syrian Revolutionaries Front (SRF).
This assertion of control -- and also increased implementation of Sharia law -- is almost certainly a reaction to an increasingly evident expansion in the level of lethal and relatively sophisticated military assistance being provided to moderate rebels by the U.S.-led Military Operations Center (MOC), based across Idlib's border in Hatay. While this assistance is nothing new -- having begun in late 2013 -- the very fact that it has continued and indeed expanded over a period of nine months is a cause for concern for the Al-Qaeda affiliate.
After all, its previous allies in the Islamic Front appear to be suffering from a reduction in funding and a deleterious bout of internal division, most of which is the result of external pressure to cease cooperation with prohibited terrorist organizations like Nusra. While the MOC's military assistance is clearly intended for bolstering battle fronts with the government and not for fighting jihadists, the assistance itself has facilitated a fairly dramatic rise in influence of these moderate rebel groupings. That the two main recipients of this lethal assistance -- the SRF and Harakat Hazm -- are rooted in Idlib, makes this of particular concern to Nusra.
This assertion of control -- and also increased implementation of Sharia law -- is almost certainly a reaction to an increasingly evident expansion in the level of lethal and relatively sophisticated military assistance being provided to moderate rebels by the U.S.-led Military Operations Center (MOC), based across Idlib's border in Hatay. While this assistance is nothing new -- having begun in late 2013 -- the very fact that it has continued and indeed expanded over a period of nine months is a cause for concern for the Al-Qaeda affiliate.
After all, its previous allies in the Islamic Front appear to be suffering from a reduction in funding and a deleterious bout of internal division, most of which is the result of external pressure to cease cooperation with prohibited terrorist organizations like Nusra. While the MOC's military assistance is clearly intended for bolstering battle fronts with the government and not for fighting jihadists, the assistance itself has facilitated a fairly dramatic rise in influence of these moderate rebel groupings. That the two main recipients of this lethal assistance -- the SRF and Harakat Hazm -- are rooted in Idlib, makes this of particular concern to Nusra.
Quote:
After this revendicated-islamist organisations panorama, salafis to moderates, we should consider the Free Syrian Army come back. But not a good come back. Because FSA is now doing what islamists did in the early last year. Far to be back in a unified army dream, organized by fronts (north, south, east…), we are observing an explosion of coalitions. And some in the same governorate. It’s the case for the Syrian Revolutionaries Front (SRF) and the Hazzm movement, in Idlib governorate. The first is led by Jamal Maarouf and Qassem Saaedine, with a contest on FSA Syrian Military Council leadership. The second was launched by the SMC leader himself, General Selim Idriss, on January 26 of this year. Both are engaged in military campaigns since last weeks (Khan Shaykhun, International Road, …). Both fighting in same areas but not allied.
If there's another war and Congress doesn't approve it but Obama thinks he can, I'll personally get a march going and go to DC to protest a vote of no confidence on his ***. I refuse to pay my taxes to support a war that the people are against but their idiot of a president thinks he can do w/e the *** he wants.
Phoenix.Michiiru said: »
If there's another war and Congress doesn't approve it but Obama thinks he can, I'll personally get a march going and go to DC to protest a vote of no confidence on his ***. I refuse to pay my taxes to support a war that the people are against but their idiot of a president thinks he can do w/e the *** he wants.
It's not war unless the congress approves it, but the President can and has engaged in "conflicts" numerous times without congressional approval, and they don't require it. He's the commander in chief of the armed forces, if there's a threat to the US he can deploy them as he sees fit. Now there's international agreements and stuff one has to deal with, and there's always consequences and the issues of funding, but yadayada.
Basically: just because you don't like that he does something doesn't change the fact that he can do it, and is allowed to.
Man, 2016 needs to hurry up and get here, we need a new scapegoat to gawk at... Obama is getting old. D:
Bahamut.Refreshtwo said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
What did I just read?
we killing muslims with drones. muslims get upset makes more terror groups we kill with drones. that makes more terror groups.
to put it into video game terms we just killing "sin" armor by killing the people we never go after islam the core aka "yu yevon" and we cant say any thing about it we just go "yay we beat sin" there peace, but it keeps coming back.
Yes im a liberal but the world needs to come out and say it we need to deal with islamm by deconverting proplr it may take 100-300 years but there one day will be peace in the middle east one day.
You *** idiot. There is war in the middle east because there is oil in the middle east.
1.6 Billion muslims, only 100 million in the areas of conflict. (Arabian Gulf) and Palestine because a western colony was implanted there.
Want peace in the middle east and the world? Get the *** out of other people's countries Yankee.
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »
Bahamut.Refreshtwo said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
What did I just read?
we killing muslims with drones. muslims get upset makes more terror groups we kill with drones. that makes more terror groups.
to put it into video game terms we just killing "sin" armor by killing the people we never go after islam the core aka "yu yevon" and we cant say any thing about it we just go "yay we beat sin" there peace, but it keeps coming back.
Yes im a liberal but the world needs to come out and say it we need to deal with islamm by deconverting proplr it may take 100-300 years but there one day will be peace in the middle east one day.
You *** idiot. There is war in the middle east because there is oil in the middle east.
1.6 Billion muslims, only 100 million in the areas of conflict. (Arabian Gulf) and Palestine because a western colony was implanted there.
Want peace in the middle east and the world? Get the *** out of other people's countries Yankee.
It's the Jew's country, there's no such thing as Palestine. Can't get mad at a people for returning home after being pushed around for centuries and then wanting to defend their land once they had it back. But you know, continue being a tool, that's cool.
As for the rest of the shithole: we don't want to be there at all, we'd prefer to stay out, we have our own problems to deal with, but things take precedence at times.
Jetackuu said: »
Phoenix.Michiiru said: »
If there's another war and Congress doesn't approve it but Obama thinks he can, I'll personally get a march going and go to DC to protest a vote of no confidence on his ***. I refuse to pay my taxes to support a war that the people are against but their idiot of a president thinks he can do w/e the *** he wants.
It's not war unless the congress approves it, but the President can and has engaged in "conflicts" numerous times without congressional approval, and they don't require it. He's the commander in chief of the armed forces, if there's a threat to the US he can deploy them as he sees fit. Now there's international agreements and stuff one has to deal with, and there's always consequences and the issues of funding, but yadayada.
Basically: just because you don't like that he does something doesn't change the fact that he can do it, and is allowed to.
US officials (I'll have to look) have come out and said ISIS poses no threat to the US.
It's just Obama and McCain (few others too) once again trying to overthrown a government. And by doing so have decided to help terrorists by claiming other terrorist pose more of a threat.
And now ISIS has taken the step of brokering a non agressive pact to not fight against any of the terrorist (aka moderate rebels) the US has backed and is trying to back again.
Obama can't declare war on Syria because it hasn't done anything to warrant it. Last year he tried the whole WMD thing and failed.
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Phoenix.Michiiru said: »
If there's another war and Congress doesn't approve it but Obama thinks he can, I'll personally get a march going and go to DC to protest a vote of no confidence on his ***. I refuse to pay my taxes to support a war that the people are against but their idiot of a president thinks he can do w/e the *** he wants.
It's not war unless the congress approves it, but the President can and has engaged in "conflicts" numerous times without congressional approval, and they don't require it. He's the commander in chief of the armed forces, if there's a threat to the US he can deploy them as he sees fit. Now there's international agreements and stuff one has to deal with, and there's always consequences and the issues of funding, but yadayada.
Basically: just because you don't like that he does something doesn't change the fact that he can do it, and is allowed to.
US officials (I'll have to look) have come out and said ISIS poses no threat to the US.
It's just Obama and McCain (few others too) once again trying to overthrown a government. And by doing so have decided to help terrorists by claiming other terrorist pose more of a threat.
And now ISIS has taken the step of brokering a non agressive pact to not fight against any of the terrorist (aka moderate rebels) the US has backed and is trying to back again.
Obama can't declare war on Syria because it hasn't done anything to warrant it. Last year he tried the whole WMD thing and failed.
Obama can't declare war on Syria because he doesn't have the authority to declare war, that power rests with congress.
Most of the rest of your post is just about as loony as you usually are though, kudos. Also your definition of "threat to US" needs some work.
Jetackuu said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »
Bahamut.Refreshtwo said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
What did I just read?
we killing muslims with drones. muslims get upset makes more terror groups we kill with drones. that makes more terror groups.
to put it into video game terms we just killing "sin" armor by killing the people we never go after islam the core aka "yu yevon" and we cant say any thing about it we just go "yay we beat sin" there peace, but it keeps coming back.
Yes im a liberal but the world needs to come out and say it we need to deal with islamm by deconverting proplr it may take 100-300 years but there one day will be peace in the middle east one day.
You *** idiot. There is war in the middle east because there is oil in the middle east.
1.6 Billion muslims, only 100 million in the areas of conflict. (Arabian Gulf) and Palestine because a western colony was implanted there.
Want peace in the middle east and the world? Get the *** out of other people's countries Yankee.
It's the Jew's country, there's no such thing as Palestine. Can't get mad at a people for returning home after being pushed around for centuries and then wanting to defend their land once they had it back. But you know, continue being a tool, that's cool.
As for the rest of the shithole: we don't want to be there at all, we'd prefer to stay out, we have our own problems to deal with, but things take precedence at times.
Do you know how ignorant you sound?
There's no such thing as a "people returning home after centuries"..
Hypothetically, lets say a large group of Jews were kicked out of their land by the romans. Lets also say this happened 2,000 years ago, as is stated by the Ashkenazi Jews.
You think that some people who are the descendants of others who died over 2,000 years ago, have the right to go an evict another people living in a land they've known as home their entire lives? the homes of their father, their grandfather, their great grand father... hundreds of generations...
You are *** bat ***crazy.
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »
Bahamut.Refreshtwo said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
What did I just read?
we killing muslims with drones. muslims get upset makes more terror groups we kill with drones. that makes more terror groups.
to put it into video game terms we just killing "sin" armor by killing the people we never go after islam the core aka "yu yevon" and we cant say any thing about it we just go "yay we beat sin" there peace, but it keeps coming back.
Yes im a liberal but the world needs to come out and say it we need to deal with islamm by deconverting proplr it may take 100-300 years but there one day will be peace in the middle east one day.
You *** idiot. There is war in the middle east because there is oil in the middle east.
1.6 Billion muslims, only 100 million in the areas of conflict. (Arabian Gulf) and Palestine because a western colony was implanted there.
Want peace in the middle east and the world? Get the *** out of other people's countries Yankee.
The oil part is correct, it's been a war for resources forever, however last I checked, Iraq isn't a major oil exporter, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait were.
If we wanted peace in the Middle East, then you need to rewind a long *** time and figure out a way to prevent the crusades. A lot of this ***was ended, however anyone who has their thumb up their *** just wants to blame the US for everything.
If you could get those radical idiots out then by all means do so. Don't call us a bunch of yankees or derogatory terms, because there's a lot I could call you and get banned for you ignorant ***.
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »
Do you know how ignorant you sound?
There's no such thing as a "people returning home after centuries"..
Hypothetically, lets say a large group of Jews were kicked out of their land by the romans. Lets also say this happened 2,000 years ago, as is stated by the Ashkenazi Jews.
You think that some people who are the descendants of others who died over 2,000 years ago, have the right to go an evict another people living in a land they've known as home their entire lives? the homes of their father, their grandfather, their great grand father... hundreds of generations...
You are *** bat ***crazy.
There's no such thing as a "people returning home after centuries"..
Hypothetically, lets say a large group of Jews were kicked out of their land by the romans. Lets also say this happened 2,000 years ago, as is stated by the Ashkenazi Jews.
You think that some people who are the descendants of others who died over 2,000 years ago, have the right to go an evict another people living in a land they've known as home their entire lives? the homes of their father, their grandfather, their great grand father... hundreds of generations...
You are *** bat ***crazy.
But the radical muslims who want to kill all the jews most definitely are bat *** *** insane.
Jetackuu said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »
Do you know how ignorant you sound?
There's no such thing as a "people returning home after centuries"..
Hypothetically, lets say a large group of Jews were kicked out of their land by the romans. Lets also say this happened 2,000 years ago, as is stated by the Ashkenazi Jews.
You think that some people who are the descendants of others who died over 2,000 years ago, have the right to go an evict another people living in a land they've known as home their entire lives? the homes of their father, their grandfather, their great grand father... hundreds of generations...
You are *** bat ***crazy.
There's no such thing as a "people returning home after centuries"..
Hypothetically, lets say a large group of Jews were kicked out of their land by the romans. Lets also say this happened 2,000 years ago, as is stated by the Ashkenazi Jews.
You think that some people who are the descendants of others who died over 2,000 years ago, have the right to go an evict another people living in a land they've known as home their entire lives? the homes of their father, their grandfather, their great grand father... hundreds of generations...
You are *** bat ***crazy.
But the radical muslims who want to kill all the jews most definitely are bat *** *** insane.
Did they want to kill them before or after they stole their land?
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