What's The Top 5 Mythic's?

Yes it is, you made a Death Penalty~

*shots fired*

Well obviously. It's a gun.

For those who aren't so narrow minded, you'll agree that Nirvana should be on that list!

Nirvana's badass. I don't play SMN but I do beg my SMN friends to make it just so I can enjoy it vicariously. Finally think I convinced someone to commit to it (hey Tib!) so I'll sit back and wait :)

The problem being that SMN is useless as 3/4 of the jobs.

Are you considering all changes past year?

I would say using smn in a mixed party situation, like using smn together with ranged or melees, wont produce an optimal result, but using a focused avatar party situation, like using geos for mdb and meva down, plus cor for pet mab and att, then we can see all stupid numbers avatars have been pulling.

I would refrain using "useless" term because game changed. Its not early age like delve I where just mnks could clear it, nor ark angel where just rng/pld could clear. Events difficulty was gimped down so that a wide range of jobs can clear it plus weak jobs were powered up through adjustments.

Sad thing is just few jobs became really stagnated. Mnk is one of those imo. I dont remember any mnk adjustment for a very long time. I would say the jobs that have been neglected regard adjustment this past year are the one eating dirty nowaday. relative to others jobs i mean. Not relative to content. Any job should clear any content with some effort nowaday. Some more, some less.

I don't know if it was answered in the several pages of bleh in between you and I, but the best part of Carn is when paired with 2hr song duration+

who cares about normal songs being recast

SMN Awesome numbers every minute or so.

Job adjustements are long time due, but it's too late now, the game is really over. Mdk told me he closed his 6 accounts because after 15 years they changed enmity AGAIN. His WHM pulled hate from a cure 4 after a 5k weapon skill. Like FFXIAH, SE has their princess jobs (PLD - long list of failures through 15 years). Over the years they have done their best to transform PLD into a real tank with auto-fail every VU. It seems they finally succeeded at the cost of 90% of the jobs though.

30 seconds, just saying, and with the help of Astral Conduit (And an Idris GEO):


This happens IN 30 seconds.

This isn't even my final form as I am only half way on my Nirvana.
Apart from that, with the BP activation update we can probably cram a Blood pact or 3 more in there.

Your turn, monkey.

And Rudra's needed a nerf! For the record, not bitching, I primarily use THF as a farming job, it just sped me up a little.

Keep in mind that this does need a very specific set of circumstances. ;)

Historically speaking, SMN has always been a heavy hitter in all FF games, supposed to break out the large numbers on bosses, where the drawback is the number of times you could do it per battle (once per battle or whatever MP you have, since summons usually have the highest MP cost).

So, it shouldn't be surprising that these large numbers once per 30 seconds should belong to SMNs (since most DDs can WS 3-4 times in that timeframe, SAM 6-8 times).

Well we shouldn't be including abilities that can only be used once every 60 minutes. I'm of the personal opinion that the BP timer should just go away entirely, or be lowered to something like 10~15 seconds and raise the cost of the more powerful BP's.

Well, to rain on Pchan's parade a bit more. I am pretty happy with where Summoner is now.
Where a lot of people only look at the damage we can put out, people mustn't forget what else we can bring to the table. Granting the party situation allowing of course.

While we're not as strong as a Bard or Geomancer and are indeed limited to our 30 seconds recast time we do also bring an insane arsenal of buffs and debuffs along which in the recent update has only gotten better with the removal of the 500 skill duration cap.

And I'm not counting some of our avatar's favors in this.

Unfortunately, there are far, far too many people who see that you're not a BRD/COR/GEO/WHM/RDM, and look only at the parse, and decide since you didn't come out in the top three, even though you very well might have been the only reason the run didn't wipe, that it obviously must be because you're a stupid player playing a worthless job.

[edit]Totally not neurotically bitter here.

Even on those jobs so frequently anymore one or more of them get relegated to people's mules. Which is fine if you're just short on people, I guess, but it also tends to lead to -- especially with cor/geo/brd -- a mentality that those jobs are only worth tabbing in to put up their buffs.

I must admit it's an annoyance for me, even in my own shell. It's not deliberate, it's just the way you start to think when you have that stuff done so frequently.

(Happens with SMN too when you're doing activities where a PD is utilized.)

Irony is most people think a brd/cor/geo just need to do their buffs and debuffs and then do nothing.

Mythic Brd can do decent damage when geared right.
Mythic COR can do some impressive dmg when geared right.
Ergon (really ots a mythic in every way shape and form) Geo can do some impressive dmg when geared right as well.

I've seen a geo win parse in Vagary. Obviously its due to mechanics and design but it happens..also happened to be aN Idris geo so getting 2 magic based buffs and debuffs from Idris x2 helped.

At least with COR, it also leads to situations where you get yelled at for doing anything BUT rolls. I've frequently been told not to shoot at anything (even when it's pretty much impossible for me to get the attention of anything, or when it's killing trash and I have 3kTP and will one shot it every time), and once, but ONLY once, have I been yelled at for actually casting erase/paralyna/etc when /WHM.

And yes, I have seen far, far too many BRDs who seem to do two or three songs, and then start an egg timer, and read a book until it's time to redo songs. I got to see a mythic BRD a couple of weeks ago melee in the Tenzen high-tier fight, and the damage output was sufficiently high that it startled some of the people in the run who didn't understand that BRD can hit things and OA2/3 on AM3 is amazing.

Then you have people who lead vagary runs but fail to tell anyone what not to do, just what to do, so we end up failing because someone got killed, because they ran in to put buffs on the PLD, and none of us (but the leader) knew that someone dying would make the NM disappear. But that's another rant.

Yeah, it's a real shame when people consider buffing jobs as solely buffers. COR is not a RNG, GEO is not a BLM, and BRD is not a THF, but that does not mean that they can't do some excellent damage when geared and played properly. You should never relegate a job to only one single role when they can provide so much more for an alliance.

You have to admit, it's also the terrible bandwagoners giving certain jobs a terrible reputation.
But I digress, my friends know my value so I get to play it enough to make pouring hundreds of millions of gil into the job totally worth it, and for the stuff where smn isn't as useful I have other jobs I can play.

They can do a lot of damage when geared right. Which is the problem. Too many people don't understand how to gear, or even how to really play their jobs, and some jobs are really easy to get an acceptable, if not great, level of performance out of. I've seen MNKs and SAMs get extreme cases of hurt of the butt when someone has outparsed them in delve, or high-tier mission battlefields, when that someone is, say, a mythic DRG, or a well geared WAR, etc, etc, and the MNK or SAM in question doesn't even know what their JAs are, and the SAM can only self-chain because "lolfudospam", not because they know what their WS properties are.

However, a lot of jobs are a lot easier to *** up than others, I guess.

If I were to rank mythics on the basis of how much they take a job from "to be completely ignored" to "let's take this guy on our run", it'd be something like Ryunohige, Nirvana, Kenkonken, Liberator, and then Derpsichore and Aymur so close together I can't decided on a fifth. That's not necessarily in order of usefulness or anything. I've seen a not even particularly well geared DRK blow everyone away on a bee run (much hurt of the butt generated), the difference between a Nirvana and non-Nirvana SMN is significant (as it should be), DRG... well, you seem to need the mythic to rival other jobs for damage output, but, in general, I'd take a mythic DRG over a MNK or a SAM, unless there's some gimmick fight that needs a MNK or SAM (Foret delve and Yorcia delve I'm looking at you), I've not personally seen a Kenkonken PUP, but I have seen an otherwise extremely well geared PUP do extremely well, and with DNC and BST, I've seen BST blow away everyone else in delve (again, generating much hurt of the butt), even without the mythic, and DNC, likewise, doesn't seem to need the mythic at all to do decent damage on non-gimmicky fights, but both of them suffer from the same problem the other jobs do, just not quite as badly, which is that "everyone" knows they're "bad jobs", so you practically have to have the mythic to make people even begin to consider you.

On the topic of PUP, an LS friend of mine dedicated himself to PUP and has often blown other DDs out of the water. He's almost 119d his Kenkonken, and I look forward to seeing what he can do with it. So often people look at the actual job instead of how well geared it is. You'll still get people shouting for relic RNGs after the enmity changes when relics are much less valued. Or people saying that SAMs are necessary and then bringing in SAMs with unaugmented alluvion gear that proceed to get demolished by people who are actually geared properly.

Part of the problem is band-wagoners who don't have any idea how to actually play their job, which THF and DNC saw a lot of after the Rudra's update, although a good deal of them seem to have gone back to whatever they played before, which is funny, 'cause my damage output as DNC hasn't significantly suffered, since Kleos didn't get nerfed, is higher damage than Rudra's at 1kTP, and very little survives Evisceration->Kleos->Darkness to even need to close with Rudra's for a second darkness, and things that do, generally speaking, I'm not going to be killing quickly anyway.

Let's not even discuss THFs who don't understand SA and/or TA. I cringe inwardly each time I see a SATA activation when there's no one to TA, and the THF isn't even in the rear arc of the mob.

Another part seems to be people don't play those jobs, in general, so they don't understand what the job is capable of. I've had people who didn't know what Trance did, or that steps applied debuffs, or that "yes the DNC can take an EES that will deal 4k damage to you 'cause of Fan Dance, I'm not some l33t haxx0r".

Another part would be some jobs seem much easier to screw up than others, which is generally "jobs where you do other than auto attack" seem much easier to screw up than "I turn on auto attack and make a sandwich" or "I turn on auto attack and spam this one ability whenever it's up". It's really, really hard to screw up "autoattack and Victory Smite/Shijin Spiral/Asuran Fists at 1kTP".

And another part, to bring this list to a close, is some people seem to just absolutely hate a specific job. I've had people tell me they hate DNC specifically because of how it changed the game in regards to preferred subs for melee DDs, especially after it got DW. Or they just don't like the concept of the job in general. The absolute vehemence I have seen in some people towards specific jobs seriously makes me wonder if I need to ask them to show me on the doll where the DRK/PUP/DRG/WAR, etc, touch them.

My COR outparsed a Relic RNG, pre-enmity update, in a Marjami delve run. The reason being the Relic RNG got his *** killed repeatedly 'cause he refused to NOT stand in AoE range of some mobs. Not because my COR was particularly well geared.

Gear is only as good as the ability of the player with it to use it. It doesn't matter how much DPS you can theoretically put out if you spend half the run double weak because you're an idiot who won't listen to anyone.

And I really don't think any amount of mythics will fix sheer stupidity.

Do you really need to traumatize them making them show us? I mean, we all know how a puppet gets operated...*cringe*

I very much agree. I've played with a large amount of mythic SAMs that did not understand how to gear themselves outside of a mythic, so they did exceptionally little to help the run. Hell, I've met SAMs that say Hasso is useless and don't bother building a meditate set. The player matters far more than the job.

I should also add to the above "Gear is only as good as the ability of the player with it to use it. It doesn't matter how much DPS you can theoretically put out if you spend half the run double weak because you're an idiot who won't listen to anyone" that it doesn't matter how much DPS you can theoretically put out if you spend half the run double weak 'cause the tank, or WHM, or [insert party member here] failed to do their job properly because they're an idiot, although one must always be careful, as the temptation to lay the blame at another's door to avoid feelings of self-hatred and shame is sometimes great.

Bard can be a amazing dd. My buddy Sechs makes a good DD during runs. Depends on what we doing of course but I never complain if he DD's as long as songs kept up. Sometimes depending on what we doing we even get whm dding. lol

This happened a lot when abby first came out and how everyone abby burned jobs and totally did not learn the job. Not long after abby came out I was in a pug group that had a thf in it. Someone told the thief to SATA, and the thf actually did not know what SATA was...we had to explain it to him and he was not trolling lol.

THF.....SATA am I doing it right?