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Bundy Ranch, Militia OTW.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 21:42:03
Looks like the Federal government just got its *** handed to it.
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm
The Fed's cannot just arm up and go after a person or his cattle.
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17
http://famguardian.org/Publications/PropertyRights/exclufed.html
The feds got away with making a lot of these laws over the years, but it doesn't make those laws legal, per the constitution.
Technically, federal parks and all federal "owned" land by rights belong to the states where that land is located.
The federal government has usurped large swathes of it under the guise of "preservation", but in reality it is to squeeze resources and money out of people.
His fight is valid if the state backs him, especially if it gets to the Supreme Court where they would have little choice but to side with the state on constitutional grounds.
So, a bunch of idiots block the road and that equates the federal gov't getting their *** handed to them? I'm sorry, who was affected by this stunt? Thats right, private citzens. No one else. All of the militia guys have accomplished nothing.
So lets review:
BLM has seized 390 of the 500 cows Mr. Bundy owns.
He still owes 1 million dollars in grazing fees
He still doesn't own the land.
Federal Courts have already issued several rulings, all against Mr Bundy.
Mr. Bundy is a freeloader.
He owns 1000, now they are giving back the one's they have taken.
He has offered the county the money, they wont take it.
The land is public, and his family have held stewardship over it for 120+yrs
lolfederalcourts
Mr.bundy has just as much right to graze as you or I.
He owes the Feds money, not the county so of course they won't taken, we've explained this to you already.
The land is Federal, again has been explained to you already, how long his family has been there is irrelevant, again explained already.
The federal courts have some of the highest pull, and the supreme wouldn't hear a case as stupid as this, so their rulings stand.
Correct, and we'd have to pay the same as he has to, or face penalties like he is.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-12 21:42:10
He owns 1000, now they are giving back the one they took.
He has offered the county the money, they wont take it.
The land is public, and his family have held stewardship over it for 120+yrs
lolfederalcourts
Mr.bundy has just as much right to graze as you or I.
Did you read the article? I guess not.
I have already debunked that completely, he owes the federal gov't, not the county.
The land is public, he is not a steward of anything.
Federal Courts > Whatever you are thinking about, which I don't even want to know.
No he doesn't, he doesn't own the land, if he wants to graze he has to pay. FACT.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 21:42:25
Yes and your reasoning was crap and it was already stated as to why. There's no half truths, but continue thinking that.
He's still breaking the law, and he will be treated as such.
Looks like the Federal government just got its *** handed to it.
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm
The Fed's cannot just arm up and go after a person or his cattle.
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17
http://famguardian.org/Publications/PropertyRights/exclufed.html
The feds got away with making a lot of these laws over the years, but it doesn't make those laws legal, per the constitution.
Technically, federal parks and all federal "owned" land by rights belong to the states where that land is located.
The federal government has usurped large swathes of it under the guise of "preservation", but in reality it is to squeeze resources and money out of people.
His fight is valid if the state backs him, especially if it gets to the Supreme Court where they would have little choice but to side with the state on constitutional grounds.
Not that I agree with some of the tactics the fed has used over the years to tear into people's privacy and impose illegal taxes, but this isn't one of those cases, and I find it particularly odd that someone bordering on radical libertarian would support someone who is knowingly leeching off the government.
This rancher is fighting a crusade against big government in the worst possible way.
Also, the feds CAN just arm up and take his cattle, imprison him, seize his assets, and even go after his family member's assets.
So they just turned tail because of bad publicity and fear of someone getting ran over. SUUUURE that must be it, thanks for clearing it up so well.
Obviously I can't say for sure why they stepped down, but I can tell you it's not because he's in the right.
You are incredibly arrogant in your ignorance.
Have you read into this at all? Or have you just browsed CNN MSNBC maybe even FOX? Fox is just as bad as the rest of them anymore. Just as bad? In what way?
Owned by politics. elaborate
VIP
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-12 21:42:33
Yes and your reasoning was crap and it was already stated as to why. There's no half truths, but continue thinking that.
He's still breaking the law, and he will be treated as such.
Looks like the Federal government just got its *** handed to it.
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm
The Fed's cannot just arm up and go after a person or his cattle.
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17
http://famguardian.org/Publications/PropertyRights/exclufed.html
The feds got away with making a lot of these laws over the years, but it doesn't make those laws legal, per the constitution.
Technically, federal parks and all federal "owned" land by rights belong to the states where that land is located.
The federal government has usurped large swathes of it under the guise of "preservation", but in reality it is to squeeze resources and money out of people.
His fight is valid if the state backs him, especially if it gets to the Supreme Court where they would have little choice but to side with the state on constitutional grounds.
Not that I agree with some of the tactics the fed has used over the years to tear into people's privacy and impose illegal taxes, but this isn't one of those cases, and I find it particularly odd that someone bordering on radical libertarian would support someone who is knowingly leeching off the government.
This rancher is fighting a crusade against big government in the worst possible way.
Also, the feds CAN just arm up and take his cattle, imprison him, seize his assets, and even go after his family member's assets.
So they just turned tail because of bad publicity and fear of someone getting ran over. SUUUURE that must be it, thanks for clearing it up so well.
Obviously I can't say for sure why they stepped down, but I can tell you it's not because he's in the right.
You are incredibly arrogant in your ignorance.
Have you read into this at all? Or have you just browsed CNN MSNBC maybe even FOX? Fox is just as bad as the rest of them anymore.
Yes, and I'm still unconvinced that the government has done anything illegal or particularly insensitive, and Bundy's verbiage is overly righteous and combative.
It's not all that different from throwing garbage on the ground then crying when you get a littering citation.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-12 21:53:40
I'd like to see an arrest warrant for this freeloader, I wonder why that hasn't happened yet?
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 21:54:10
It is abundantly clear that you people think its totally okay for the government to pass laws that put money into its pockets.
Thankfully not everyone in this country likes having the government tell them what to do, when to do it, and how much you owe them.
Incase you don't realize it, the government works for us.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 21:55:56
It is abundantly clear that you people think its totally okay for the government to pass laws that put money into its pockets.
Thankfully not everyone in this country likes having the government tell them what to do, when to do it, and how much you owe them.
In case you don't realize it, the government works for us. Yes it's OK. Yes the government works for "US" us a whole, not the individual. This piece of ***will get what's coming to him as he's disobeying the law, what don't you comprehend about that?
The law he's disobeying is constitutional as well, or do you not understand that one either?
I don't *** like it that I have to pay taxes, or follow the speed limit but if I ignore both of those things it lands me in a shitload of trouble, as it should.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-12 21:58:08
Feel free to move to another country then? Take Mr. Bundy with you. I don't like paying taxes while guys like Bundy freeload for 20 years. He is in violation of the law, and its abundantly clear that you support criminal activity.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 21:59:03
Feel free to move to another country then? Take Mr. Bundy with you. I don't like paying taxes while guys like Bundy freeload for 20 years. He is in violation of the law, and its abundantly clear that you support criminal activity. Or do what the other people who don't want to follow the law do: become a politician, or bribe one.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-12 22:03:03
I would rather he just leave the country, I prefer our politicians to at least have an IQ of 100.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 22:04:04
I would rather he just leave the country, I prefer our politicians to at least have an IQ of 100. Well, then you better start deporting a lot of current seat holders then ^.O
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By Fenrir.Weakness 2014-04-12 22:04:51
I don't get it, he's claiming stewardship, but I don't think stewardship laws have held up in court... like ever. I mean *** they were created in the 1800's to promote farming in the west. I understand he has lived there forever so he just takes the stance that is his obviously...
But seeing as I can't seem to find any proof he has a title for the acreage (other than the "My family has been here for 100 years" argument), I really can't understand how he thinks he has any right to this land.
By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 22:05:44
It is abundantly clear that you people think its totally okay for the government to pass laws that put money into its pockets.
Thankfully not everyone in this country likes having the government tell them what to do, when to do it, and how much you owe them.
In case you don't realize it, the government works for us. Yes it's OK. Yes the government works for "US" us a whole, not the individual. This piece of ***will get what's coming to him as he's disobeying the law, what don't you comprehend about that?
The law he's disobeying is constitutional as well, or do you not understand that one either?
I don't *** like it that I have to pay taxes, or follow the speed limit but if I ignore both of those things it lands me in a shitload of trouble, as it should.
OK, try and answer one straight forward question for me. The taxes you pay, are they used for you and your fellow citizens?
By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 22:06:28
It is abundantly clear that you people think its totally okay for the government to pass laws that put money into its pockets.
Thankfully not everyone in this country likes having the government tell them what to do, when to do it, and how much you owe them.
In case you don't realize it, the government works for us. Yes it's OK. Yes the government works for "US" us a whole, not the individual. This piece of ***will get what's coming to him as he's disobeying the law, what don't you comprehend about that?
The law he's disobeying is constitutional as well, or do you not understand that one either?
I don't *** like it that I have to pay taxes, or follow the speed limit but if I ignore both of those things it lands me in a shitload of trouble, as it should.
OK, try and answer one straight forward question for me. The taxes you pay, are they used for you and your fellow citizens? Doesn't matter if they are, I still have to pay them. That's what you don't seem to get in your head. We still have to follow the law, regardless if you agree or disagree with it.
But to answer your rhetorical: yes, yes they are, and then some.
[+]
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-12 22:09:31
I don't get it, he's claiming stewardship, but I don't think stewardship laws have held up in court... like ever. I mean *** they were created in the 1800's to promote farming in the west. I understand he has lived there forever so he just takes the stance that is his obviously...
But seeing as I can't seem to find any proof he has a title for the acreage (other than the "My family has been here for 100 years" argument), I really can't understand how he thinks he has any right to this land.
Every court case has ruled against him over the last 20 years, the BLM has been overly generous in trying to settle this dispute peacefully, but Bundy refuses to pay them what he owes. He insists on paying someone else that has no connection to the BLM. Finally, a court drew the line and said enough was enough, and ordered all 1000 cows (Bundy has said he owns 500 of them, not sure who owns the other half) seized. He thinks because he doesn't have to pay the gov't, it really means he doesn't have to.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 22:10:25
AKA the guy is an idiot, and he'll learn his lesson the hard way.
By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 22:12:42
It is abundantly clear that you people think its totally okay for the government to pass laws that put money into its pockets.
Thankfully not everyone in this country likes having the government tell them what to do, when to do it, and how much you owe them.
In case you don't realize it, the government works for us. Yes it's OK. Yes the government works for "US" us a whole, not the individual. This piece of ***will get what's coming to him as he's disobeying the law, what don't you comprehend about that?
The law he's disobeying is constitutional as well, or do you not understand that one either?
I don't *** like it that I have to pay taxes, or follow the speed limit but if I ignore both of those things it lands me in a shitload of trouble, as it should.
OK, try and answer one straight forward question for me. The taxes you pay, are they used for you and your fellow citizens? Doesn't matter if they are, I still have to pay them. That's what you don't seem to get in your head. We still have to follow the law, regardless if you agree or disagree with it.
Of course you can't even handle one simple question. I'll answer for you, sense you seem to be inept. The taxes you pay all have reason for being, you don't just pay taxes because the government wants to be rich.
The grazing fees came into being to pay for land upkeep and improvement. 20yrs ago the BLM stopped using the fees in this way so he stopped paying them.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 22:13:42
It is abundantly clear that you people think its totally okay for the government to pass laws that put money into its pockets.
Thankfully not everyone in this country likes having the government tell them what to do, when to do it, and how much you owe them.
In case you don't realize it, the government works for us. Yes it's OK. Yes the government works for "US" us a whole, not the individual. This piece of ***will get what's coming to him as he's disobeying the law, what don't you comprehend about that?
The law he's disobeying is constitutional as well, or do you not understand that one either?
I don't *** like it that I have to pay taxes, or follow the speed limit but if I ignore both of those things it lands me in a shitload of trouble, as it should.
OK, try and answer one straight forward question for me. The taxes you pay, are they used for you and your fellow citizens? Doesn't matter if they are, I still have to pay them. That's what you don't seem to get in your head. We still have to follow the law, regardless if you agree or disagree with it.
Of course you can't even handle one simple question. I'll answer for you, sense you seem to be inept. The taxes you pay all have reason for being, you don't just pay taxes because the government wants to be rich.
The grazing fees came into being to pay for land upkeep and improvement. 20yrs ago the BLM stopped using the fees in this way so he stopped paying them.
Of course you can't handle a simple concept such as it's not his place to decide that, if he wants to use the land then he needs to pay the fees.
End of *** story.
edit: you need to read my other edit.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-12 22:15:58
Of course you can't even handle one simple question. I'll answer for you, sense you seem to be inept. The taxes you pay all have reason for being, you don't just pay taxes because the government wants to be rich. Um, what?
Quote: The grazing fees came into being to pay for land upkeep and improvement. 20yrs ago the BLM stopped using the fees in this way so he stopped paying them.
Too bad he doesn't have the right to do that. That is a basic concept that you can't seem to understand. I would use an analogy but I don't believe you will ever understand really.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 22:17:02
Here I'll make this easy for you:
Say the government had the power company in it's hands, and I continued getting power even though I didn't pay the bill. At some point I'll end up in court and be ordered to pay that bill, and if I don't then they will come and start to confiscate my property to cover said bill.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 22:17:50
It is abundantly clear that you people think its totally okay for the government to pass laws that put money into its pockets.
Thankfully not everyone in this country likes having the government tell them what to do, when to do it, and how much you owe them.
In case you don't realize it, the government works for us. Yes it's OK. Yes the government works for "US" us a whole, not the individual. This piece of ***will get what's coming to him as he's disobeying the law, what don't you comprehend about that?
The law he's disobeying is constitutional as well, or do you not understand that one either?
I don't *** like it that I have to pay taxes, or follow the speed limit but if I ignore both of those things it lands me in a shitload of trouble, as it should.
OK, try and answer one straight forward question for me. The taxes you pay, are they used for you and your fellow citizens? Doesn't matter if they are, I still have to pay them. That's what you don't seem to get in your head. We still have to follow the law, regardless if you agree or disagree with it.
Of course you can't even handle one simple question. I'll answer for you, sense you seem to be inept. The taxes you pay all have reason for being, you don't just pay taxes because the government wants to be rich.
The grazing fees came into being to pay for land upkeep and improvement. 20yrs ago the BLM stopped using the fees in this way so he stopped paying them.
Of course you can't handle a simple concept such as it's not his place to decide that, if he wants to use the land then he needs to pay the fees.
End of *** story.
edit: you need to read my other edit.
You edited while I was submitting, you do that a lot actually.
Apparently its not the end of *** story or we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 22:19:16
It is abundantly clear that you people think its totally okay for the government to pass laws that put money into its pockets.
Thankfully not everyone in this country likes having the government tell them what to do, when to do it, and how much you owe them.
In case you don't realize it, the government works for us. Yes it's OK. Yes the government works for "US" us a whole, not the individual. This piece of ***will get what's coming to him as he's disobeying the law, what don't you comprehend about that?
The law he's disobeying is constitutional as well, or do you not understand that one either?
I don't *** like it that I have to pay taxes, or follow the speed limit but if I ignore both of those things it lands me in a shitload of trouble, as it should.
OK, try and answer one straight forward question for me. The taxes you pay, are they used for you and your fellow citizens? Doesn't matter if they are, I still have to pay them. That's what you don't seem to get in your head. We still have to follow the law, regardless if you agree or disagree with it.
Of course you can't even handle one simple question. I'll answer for you, sense you seem to be inept. The taxes you pay all have reason for being, you don't just pay taxes because the government wants to be rich.
The grazing fees came into being to pay for land upkeep and improvement. 20yrs ago the BLM stopped using the fees in this way so he stopped paying them.
Of course you can't handle a simple concept such as it's not his place to decide that, if he wants to use the land then he needs to pay the fees.
End of *** story.
edit: you need to read my other edit.
You edited while I was submitting, you do that a lot actually.
Apparently its not the end of *** story or we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I edit a lot, try to pay attention, and I didn't even need to bother, I was amusing myself for your sheer ignorance.
It is end of story, the courts have ruled against him. The only real question is: why isn't he in jail?
You are just the only one who doesn't seem to understand such simple concepts, that is why this thread exists and why it continues to go.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-12 22:20:29
Its the end for me unless someone other than Altima would like to comment, its like talking to a wall. Not that there is a lot to comment on, this is a really simple case that has been overblown by fake militia and weekend warriors.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 22:21:18
Its the end for me unless someone other than Altima would like to comment, its like talking to a wall. Not that there is a lot to comment on, this is a really simple case that has been overblown by fake militia and weekend soldiers. I just hope none of the idiots that went there to assist this guy start something and end up like another Waco.
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-04-12 22:23:06
If Altimaomega knew even half as much as he claims to point out, he would know how federal and state tax dollars are allocated - government payroll, property maintenance (there's a lot of federal buildings), federally approved spending, deficit, emergency spending, Medicaid, Medicare, emergency services run the by the state or federal governments, federal supplies, military funding, defense funding, court costs (for state appointed attorneys and other council) and so on, as well as public infrastructure and maintenance.
Edit: Forgot to mention social programs that keep kids off the street, in school, and other social programs (ZOMG SOCIAL IS BAD FOR HELPING THOSE WHO CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES! SHARING IS SO MEAN AND CRUEL!)
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By Fenrir.Weakness 2014-04-12 22:27:54
Okay so the theories I have read from the internet (because the internet is never wrong) seem to imply that either
1) The BLM is trying to strong arm all the ranchers out of the middle of the *** desert for underground water rights.
2) Some seedy politician back in the day took a bunch of bribes and is trying to expand government owned property for something about paying people back with water rights?
And something about turtles.
By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 22:29:41
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »If Altimaomega knew even half as much as he claims to point out, he would know how federal and state tax dollars are allocated - government payroll, property maintenance (there's a lot of federal buildings), federally approved spending, deficit, emergency spending, Medicaid, Medicare, emergency services run the by the state or federal governments, federal supplies, military funding, defense funding, court costs (for state appointed attorneys and other council) and so on, as well as public infrastructure and maintenance.
Edit: Forgot to mention social programs that keep kids off the street, in school, and other social programs (ZOMG SOCIAL IS BAD FOR HELPING THOSE WHO CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES! SHARING IS SO MEAN AND CRUEL!) Now you know social=socialism and in neocon land socialism=communism and communism is the devil!!! and the devil is fascism and all three of these terms have the same meaning even though they're different words and have different meanings!
Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-04-12 22:30:15
Okay so the theories I have read from the internet (because the internet is never wrong) seem to imply that either
1) The BLM is trying to strong arm all the ranchers out of the middle of the *** desert for underground water rights.
2) Some seedy politician back in the day took a bunch of bribes and is trying to expand government owned property for something about paying people back with water rights?
And something about turtles.
I knew it! Those dastardly turtles are up to no good!
Better get the Shredder in on this, so he can at least fight a turtle he has a chance at beating.
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Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-04-12 22:31:41
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »If Altimaomega knew even half as much as he claims to point out, he would know how federal and state tax dollars are allocated - government payroll, property maintenance (there's a lot of federal buildings), federally approved spending, deficit, emergency spending, Medicaid, Medicare, emergency services run the by the state or federal governments, federal supplies, military funding, defense funding, court costs (for state appointed attorneys and other council) and so on, as well as public infrastructure and maintenance.
Edit: Forgot to mention social programs that keep kids off the street, in school, and other social programs (ZOMG SOCIAL IS BAD FOR HELPING THOSE WHO CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES! SHARING IS SO MEAN AND CRUEL!) Now you know social=socialism and in neocon land socialism=communism and communism is the devil!!! and the devil is fascism and all three of these terms have the same meaning even though they're different words and have different meanings!
<Yoda voice> The sarcasm is thick with this one, it is, hmm...
(pretty funny commentary though)
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-12 22:35:11
I'd really been hoping this topic would stay dead.
I'm not posting a link to a certain story or website because every single one is different. It's pretty crazy that militia are actually gathering from 5-6, perhaps more states and the mainstream news sites are barely even covering it. I do not have cable or any kind of "TV" but from what I can gather, it is not being reported.
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