Bundy Ranch, Militia OTW.

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Bundy Ranch, Militia OTW.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 00:25:37
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I'm not posting a link to a certain story or website because every single one is different. It's pretty crazy that militia are actually gathering from 5-6, perhaps more states and the mainstream news sites are barely even covering it. I do not have cable or any kind of "TV" but from what I can gather, it is not being reported.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-12 00:31:40
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Come on, do a better job of creating a thread than that.
Here is the story: Nevada Rancher Faces Off Against US Gov't
Quote:
A 20-year dispute between a Nevada rancher and federal rangers over illegal cattle grazing erupted into an Old West-style showdown on the open range this week, even prompting self-proclaimed members of militia groups from across the country to join the rancher in fighting what they say is U.S. "tyranny."

What began as a legal fight between longtime rancher Cliven Bundy and the U.S. Bureau of Land Management has escalated as Bundy kept his cattle on the federal land, and the government has responded by beginning roundups of the livestock.

A confrontation teetered on violence Wednesday when Bundy family members and dozens of supporters angrily confronted a group of rangers holding Tasers and barking dogs on leashes near Bunkerville, about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

Federal officials say a police dog was kicked and officers were assaulted.

Bundy family members say they were thrown to the ground or jolted with a Taser.

In the end, the rangers got into their white SUVs and drove away, a YouTube video of the incident showed.

"Get out of our state!" the cheering protesters yelled at the rangers as they departed in several vehicles. "BLM go away! BLM go away!" they added, referring to the Bureau of Land Management.

The entire incident is now under investigation, Amy Lueders, the bureau's director in Nevada, said Thursday.

To some, the 67-year-old Bundy is a hero who hails from a long family of ranchers stretching back to the Wild West.

To environmentalists and the feds, however, he's an outlaw of sorts who owes U.S. taxpayers more than $1 million in unpaid grazing fees.

The U.S. government is rounding up Bundy's cattle that it says have been grazing illegally on public lands in Clark County for more than 20 years, according to the land-management bureau and the National Park Service.

Between Saturday and Wednesday, contracted wranglers impounded a total of 352 cattle, federal officials said. Bundy says he owns 500 of the more than 900 cattle that federal officials are planning to confiscate for illegal grazing, the Las Vegas Review-Journal reported. Bundy told the newspaper that each head of his livestock is worth about $1,000.

Basically, this guy decided he didn't have to pay grazing fees anymore, so he hasn't paid them since 1993. Thats pretty much a slap in the face to every other American rancher that pays grazing fees so their herds can live on federal land, but Mr. Bundy doesn't seem to care.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 00:36:41
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I'd like an unbiased discussion about the events taking place, not a troll thread that you would have it be.

Edit: nice ninja edit btw. I like how your link goes to cnn.. ><
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-12 00:37:41
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You just expect people to know what you are talking about while providing zero information? Don't worry, I HELPED you out.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 00:56:02
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The guy decided he was gonna stop paying grazing fee's, when the BLM decided they was gonna take the money and start buying out ranchers. Instead of upkeeping/improving the land that the fee's were meant for in the first place. Funny how CNN "forgets" that part. They also forget to mention this guy, is the last rancher that has not been bought out.

He has tried multiple times to pay the state/county grazing fee's but they will not accept the payment. Notice how it say "20yr dispute" this ranch has had claim to this land for over 120yrs, the federal government "BLM" has no right over it. The state of nevada is the only entity that can dictate the land dispute.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-12 01:03:23
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No. Its federal land. Most of Nevada is in fact, federal land. The county didn't accept his money because they have no authority over the matter. He has no claim to the land, his champion, the Constitution, doesn't grant land rights based on tenure. It doesn't matter than he has been there since the 1800s, does he have a land title? No.

Individual citizens don't get to decide they aren't paying taxes, or in this case, grazing fees, anymore because of whatever reason they invent, even if they think its a good one. The state can say whatever it wants, it is still federal land. And this guy, Mr. Bundy, owes Uncle Sam, not the county, $1million dollars. And it looks like they are starting by taking his cows, my question is, what took so long?
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 01:05:53
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Um... The federal government can just take the land if they so please, ever hear of a thing called imminent domain?

Not saying it's right, but it's perfectly within their legal ability to do so.

Vic is one of the last people on here to troll people, but nice job attacking the person who's willing to post a link to something you started a thread about with no information and then lashing out at him like he's against you.

As far as I'm concerned so far with the information presented, this is a stupid thing to gather together for, and can only end badly.
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-12 01:17:03
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Please don't use FFXI acronyms while talking about non-FFXI issues on this forum. You blanked me out for about 8 seconds.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 01:32:29
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Pretty sure I stated why no link was posted. I put Bundy Ranch in the title so if people knew what was going on they could post or be able to look it up. I did not post a link because I did not wanna come out on a "side" right out of the gate and have this once again become a pissing match.

Vic post's a link to CNN, reads the horrible biased reporting like a trained sheep does and then agrees to the half truth's of the article.

Also, it is not Federal land it is Public Land, and it is a fee not a tax. The reason for the fee was ignored by the BLM before he stopped paying. Snipers and armed escorts have been at this land long before any protestors or militia started coming.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-12 01:39:09
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Its fair to expect a thread creator to provide a link or article detailing the topic of the thread in the P&R section. This is something that even Chanti accomplishes. If you don't share this opinion, feel free to not create anymore threads.

Secondly, I could post a foxnews link, and it would still say the same facts:
Its federal land (Federal Land IS public land, wow)
Mr. Bundy decided to stop paying grazing fees on his own volition
Mr Bundy is breaking the law.
Action is finally being taken against Mr Bundy.

None of that is opinion. This is an opinion: This guy is a freeloader, and its about time the gov't did something about it.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 01:39:15
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Yes and your reasoning was crap and it was already stated as to why. There's no half truths, but continue thinking that.

He's still breaking the law, and he will be treated as such.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-04-12 01:44:17
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Cows go in, cows come out. You can't explain that.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-04-12 01:45:19
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CNN. So scurry.
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By Ragnarok.Littleanimal 2014-04-12 01:55:12
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Goddamn BLM's took r jubs!
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-04-12 02:10:45
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For a second there, I thought Al Bundy came back to protest something, with his old crew of "No Ma'am" followers.

Except Jefferson Darcy.
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-12 02:16:37
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I can't be the only one who saw 'bunny ranch' and thought of something a bit more fun.
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-04-12 02:20:58
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
I can't be the only one who saw 'bunny ranch' and thought of something a bit more fun.
Militiamen need to hug some bunnies too sometimes...

Unless... Oh. Ooohhh.... <insert George Takei voice here> Oh my...
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 21:05:48
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Jetackuu said: »
Yes and your reasoning was crap and it was already stated as to why. There's no half truths, but continue thinking that.

He's still breaking the law, and he will be treated as such.


Looks like the Federal government just got its *** handed to it.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm

The Fed's cannot just arm up and go after a person or his cattle.

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17
http://famguardian.org/Publications/PropertyRights/exclufed.html

The feds got away with making a lot of these laws over the years, but it doesn't make those laws legal, per the constitution.
Technically, federal parks and all federal "owned" land by rights belong to the states where that land is located.
The federal government has usurped large swathes of it under the guise of "preservation", but in reality it is to squeeze resources and money out of people.
His fight is valid if the state backs him, especially if it gets to the Supreme Court where they would have little choice but to side with the state on constitutional grounds.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-04-12 21:11:41
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so in order to "fight the man", people decided to stand in the middle of an interstate highway and hold up who knows how many people in the process. right. i would've just run them over tbh
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-04-12 21:11:58
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Yeah, big win. Bundy is still responsible for his fees which will eventually be collected one way or another and the cattle were given back so idiots wouldn't get themselves run over on the freeway protesting a bureaucracy they don't understand.

-throws confetti-
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-12 21:13:34
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Altimaomega said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Yes and your reasoning was crap and it was already stated as to why. There's no half truths, but continue thinking that.

He's still breaking the law, and he will be treated as such.


Looks like the Federal government just got its *** handed to it.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm

The Fed's cannot just arm up and go after a person or his cattle.

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17
http://famguardian.org/Publications/PropertyRights/exclufed.html

The feds got away with making a lot of these laws over the years, but it doesn't make those laws legal, per the constitution.
Technically, federal parks and all federal "owned" land by rights belong to the states where that land is located.
The federal government has usurped large swathes of it under the guise of "preservation", but in reality it is to squeeze resources and money out of people.
His fight is valid if the state backs him, especially if it gets to the Supreme Court where they would have little choice but to side with the state on constitutional grounds.

Not that I agree with some of the tactics the fed has used over the years to tear into people's privacy and impose illegal taxes, but this isn't one of those cases, and I find it particularly odd that someone bordering on radical libertarian would support someone who is knowingly leeching off the government.

This rancher is fighting a crusade against big government in the worst possible way.

Also, the feds CAN just arm up and take his cattle, imprison him, seize his assets, and even go after his family member's assets.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-12 21:24:39
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
so in order to "fight the man", people decided to stand in the middle of an interstate highway and hold up who knows how many people in the process. right. i would've just run them over tbh

The easiest way to deal with people like that is to let the populous tire of their antics. I would like to see this kind of protest dealt with as civil disobedience; riot gear and sandbags for people who cannot restrain themselves to the PEACEFUL protests that the Constitution offers.

Or at least a general announcement that anyone protesting on or directly adjacent to a highway is 100% at fault for any accidents and responsible for the damages. Let the general public thin the herd a bit.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 21:25:24
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Nothing makes the laws in question unconstitutional either, therefore they're legal.

Sorry, but this guy is going to end up paying for his mistakes, if nothing else just to be made an example of. He's an idiot.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 21:28:39
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Yes and your reasoning was crap and it was already stated as to why. There's no half truths, but continue thinking that.

He's still breaking the law, and he will be treated as such.


Looks like the Federal government just got its *** handed to it.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm

The Fed's cannot just arm up and go after a person or his cattle.

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17
http://famguardian.org/Publications/PropertyRights/exclufed.html

The feds got away with making a lot of these laws over the years, but it doesn't make those laws legal, per the constitution.
Technically, federal parks and all federal "owned" land by rights belong to the states where that land is located.
The federal government has usurped large swathes of it under the guise of "preservation", but in reality it is to squeeze resources and money out of people.
His fight is valid if the state backs him, especially if it gets to the Supreme Court where they would have little choice but to side with the state on constitutional grounds.

Not that I agree with some of the tactics the fed has used over the years to tear into people's privacy and impose illegal taxes, but this isn't one of those cases, and I find it particularly odd that someone bordering on radical libertarian would support someone who is knowingly leeching off the government.

This rancher is fighting a crusade against big government in the worst possible way.

Also, the feds CAN just arm up and take his cattle, imprison him, seize his assets, and even go after his family member's assets.


So they just turned tail because of bad publicity and fear of someone getting ran over. SUUUURE that must be it, thanks for clearing it up so well.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-04-12 21:31:14
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Altimaomega said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Yes and your reasoning was crap and it was already stated as to why. There's no half truths, but continue thinking that.

He's still breaking the law, and he will be treated as such.


Looks like the Federal government just got its *** handed to it.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm

The Fed's cannot just arm up and go after a person or his cattle.

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17
http://famguardian.org/Publications/PropertyRights/exclufed.html

The feds got away with making a lot of these laws over the years, but it doesn't make those laws legal, per the constitution.
Technically, federal parks and all federal "owned" land by rights belong to the states where that land is located.
The federal government has usurped large swathes of it under the guise of "preservation", but in reality it is to squeeze resources and money out of people.
His fight is valid if the state backs him, especially if it gets to the Supreme Court where they would have little choice but to side with the state on constitutional grounds.

Not that I agree with some of the tactics the fed has used over the years to tear into people's privacy and impose illegal taxes, but this isn't one of those cases, and I find it particularly odd that someone bordering on radical libertarian would support someone who is knowingly leeching off the government.

This rancher is fighting a crusade against big government in the worst possible way.

Also, the feds CAN just arm up and take his cattle, imprison him, seize his assets, and even go after his family member's assets.


So they just turned tail because of bad publicity and fear of someone getting ran over. SUUUURE that must be it, thanks for clearing it up so well.

Obviously I can't say for sure why they stepped down, but I can tell you it's not because he's in the right.

You are incredibly arrogant in your ignorance.
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 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-12 21:33:42
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Altimaomega said: »

Looks like the Federal government just got its *** handed to it.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm

The Fed's cannot just arm up and go after a person or his cattle.

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17
http://famguardian.org/Publications/PropertyRights/exclufed.html

The feds got away with making a lot of these laws over the years, but it doesn't make those laws legal, per the constitution.
Technically, federal parks and all federal "owned" land by rights belong to the states where that land is located.
The federal government has usurped large swathes of it under the guise of "preservation", but in reality it is to squeeze resources and money out of people.
His fight is valid if the state backs him, especially if it gets to the Supreme Court where they would have little choice but to side with the state on constitutional grounds.

So, a bunch of idiots block the road and that equates the federal gov't getting their *** handed to them? I'm sorry, who was affected by this stunt? Thats right, private citzens. No one else. All of the militia guys have accomplished nothing.

So lets review:
BLM has seized 390 of the 500 cows Mr. Bundy owns.
He still owes 1 million dollars in grazing fees
He still doesn't own the land.
Federal Courts have already issued several rulings, all against Mr Bundy.
Mr. Bundy is a freeloader.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 21:34:13
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Yes and your reasoning was crap and it was already stated as to why. There's no half truths, but continue thinking that.

He's still breaking the law, and he will be treated as such.


Looks like the Federal government just got its *** handed to it.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm

The Fed's cannot just arm up and go after a person or his cattle.

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17
http://famguardian.org/Publications/PropertyRights/exclufed.html

The feds got away with making a lot of these laws over the years, but it doesn't make those laws legal, per the constitution.
Technically, federal parks and all federal "owned" land by rights belong to the states where that land is located.
The federal government has usurped large swathes of it under the guise of "preservation", but in reality it is to squeeze resources and money out of people.
His fight is valid if the state backs him, especially if it gets to the Supreme Court where they would have little choice but to side with the state on constitutional grounds.

Not that I agree with some of the tactics the fed has used over the years to tear into people's privacy and impose illegal taxes, but this isn't one of those cases, and I find it particularly odd that someone bordering on radical libertarian would support someone who is knowingly leeching off the government.

This rancher is fighting a crusade against big government in the worst possible way.

Also, the feds CAN just arm up and take his cattle, imprison him, seize his assets, and even go after his family member's assets.


So they just turned tail because of bad publicity and fear of someone getting ran over. SUUUURE that must be it, thanks for clearing it up so well.

Obviously I can't say for sure why they stepped down, but I can tell you it's not because he's in the right.

You are incredibly arrogant in your ignorance.


Have you read into this at all? Or have you just browsed CNN MSNBC maybe even FOX? Fox is just as bad as the rest of them anymore.
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By Jetackuu 2014-04-12 21:37:07
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Altimaomega said: »

Have you read into this at all? Or have you just browsed CNN MSNBC maybe even FOX? Fox is just as bad as the rest of them anymore.
Just as bad? In what way?
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 21:39:23
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Altimaomega said: »

Looks like the Federal government just got its *** handed to it.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231502/breaking-news-protesters-gather-on-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm

The Fed's cannot just arm up and go after a person or his cattle.

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17
http://famguardian.org/Publications/PropertyRights/exclufed.html

The feds got away with making a lot of these laws over the years, but it doesn't make those laws legal, per the constitution.
Technically, federal parks and all federal "owned" land by rights belong to the states where that land is located.
The federal government has usurped large swathes of it under the guise of "preservation", but in reality it is to squeeze resources and money out of people.
His fight is valid if the state backs him, especially if it gets to the Supreme Court where they would have little choice but to side with the state on constitutional grounds.

So, a bunch of idiots block the road and that equates the federal gov't getting their *** handed to them? I'm sorry, who was affected by this stunt? Thats right, private citzens. No one else. All of the militia guys have accomplished nothing.

So lets review:
BLM has seized 390 of the 500 cows Mr. Bundy owns.
He still owes 1 million dollars in grazing fees
He still doesn't own the land.
Federal Courts have already issued several rulings, all against Mr Bundy.
Mr. Bundy is a freeloader.

He owns 1000, now they are giving back the one's they have taken.
He has offered the county the money, they wont take it.
The land is public, and his family have held stewardship over it for 120+yrs
lolfederalcourts
Mr.bundy has just as much right to graze as you or I.
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By Altimaomega 2014-04-12 21:40:50
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Jetackuu said: »
Altimaomega said: »

Have you read into this at all? Or have you just browsed CNN MSNBC maybe even FOX? Fox is just as bad as the rest of them anymore.
Just as bad? In what way?


Owned by politics.
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