Another Set Advice Thread

/WAR far exceeds /SAM due to the nature VW and the delay lost through use of temps, JAs, WSs, and Save TP causes the haste of Hasso to be devalued while Berserk and Aggressor by itself grants a huge bonus to WS Average which is the bulk (I forgot my exact numbers, but I'd say my WS damage is at least 75% of my total DD) of your damage in VW on DRG. Loleyeballing would say that my WS damage increased by at least 80% on average with bergressor up. In fact, the newest trend with BLUs is to DD /WAR and they actually parse well despite being shoved into the BLM party, I've even top parsed on a few Qilin runs in the main DD party. Outside of VW I wouldn't be able to say as I'd usually be on another job on those rare occasions.

Ive done both /sam and /war on ADL and both have hit over 4k drakes/stardivers even as /sam. Did you have the same buffs for both zergs? Maybe you just didnt have as much atk buffs. My ADL runs I generally have double minuets (not 2houred) and sometimes chaos. I know i parsed 1 or 2 of em. Ill see if i can dig them up later when i go home and see what buffs/sub i was. I think im doing another ADL on tues so i can compare a little better and parse it.

considering drakes is always the best ws, but on what i can hear.. stardivers isnt so bad.. what about use stardivers first, and after drakesbane considering stardivers give Critical hit evasion effect is +5% critical hit rate. Effect lasts approximately 60 seconds?

Hitting over 4k with or without ryunohuge? the damage bonus to drakes, and am3 would make a huge difference.

So this is the gear I currently use for Stardiver. My question as a Dragoon with a level 90 Rhongomiant is whether or not it'd be worth the effort to do either a Strength based polearm (Nahvalr) or the OAT polearm for use with this weapon skill.

I've seen people say that the OAT polearm is best, what I'm uncertain of is... if it's the best non-relic/mythic/emp weapon or if it's actually the best weapon period.

Well, new highest - Stardiver 5910. Very surprised with the numbers this time around, surprisingly enough only really had Berserk Warcry and Minuet on for Attack Boosters.

Everything else was: Regain, Store TP, and March.

ADL had Dia and Angon up. I must say I am pleased with Stardiver thus far on these types of Zergs.

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Level 90 Rhongomiant still provides a substantial damage boost, but that's all it is. If you were to do the STR Polearm your increase would be so ridiculously marginal it's not worth the effort.

Would it beat it? Perhaps by a small %age.

I'd say that if the topic was pure damage, the STR Magian would in fact beat Rhongomiant at 300% TP Stardiver. However, a TP bonus Magian would also beat it and the STR Magian more than likely when at 100 or 200% TP.

A huge factor in this being that both Magians would provide a substantial boost to Stardiver vs Rhongomiants benefit.

If you dont use camlanns or plan on taking Rhongo higher then a str magian would be better. Both are D132 (90 Rhongo/99Str), but instead of 15 vit you get 11str and 26atk. Without the aftermath up, str magian wins. If you have aftermath up Rhongo woud win.

OAT lance is the best non-legendary lance. Ryunohige seems to have settled into the #1 spot now that we see what 99 versions are. Mythic>Relic>Empy for order. OAT floats somewhere behind mythic. I havent really looked into how it stacks up to gug/rhongo at 99 and it would depend heavily on how much regain/savetp you have. In something like VW with a cor, everyone has a 2-3 hit build so the OAT just ends up overshooting TP a lot. In a situation with 0 regain/saveTP, the huge amounts of TP make OAT much more competative, and stardiver is more forgiving to lower base damage weapons. But i cant say for sure where exactly it falls in the greater hierarchy without doing a buncha analysis except that it will never beat Ryunohidge. Gut says Mythic>(Relic=/=OAT)>Rhongo with relic/oat can probably go either way dependant on what type of buffs you have to favor 1 or the other, but dont quote me on that :P

How does stardiver stack up against resolution and shoha?

I'm trying to find an excuse to merit stardiver instead of shoha, but if shoha is just that much better then :<

I always giggle when I hear people talk about how OAT can even be considered in beating a Relic. In the multiple parses I've been against VW, ADL, AV, and just random things I've never once witnessed a OAT doing anything impressive.

Stardiver is the only Weapon Skill that can stack against those two Weapon Skills unless you have a Ryunohige then your Drakes would gain a 15-30% Increase depending how far along you might be on that.

STR Magian alone competes against the OAT.

Review this to see your "marginal" increase should you aim for a OAT.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18671-Thank-you-for-Stardiver!/page4

Pages: 3 and 4 by Motenten.

If a STR Magian can compete against a OAT, what light does it dare shine against a Relic? Especially a Relic which now has such a an amazing boost in the OD2.5D mod.

That alone the efficiency it provides against VWNM such as Rex and Ig-Alima.

Let's not forget your OAT weapon won't benefit much from Double Attack +% Items and roll. In any serious zerg against these nms you don't really depend on Regain rolls. It tends to be either Chaos + Fighters vs Regain / Save.

Only real exception being something like Rex.

Ryunohige is a different story, and OAT has lost it's luster.

Well *** this isn't going to end well.

?

Legendary=Mythic/Relic/Empyream.

He also was using less than ideal gear setups and never reposted findings using the gear people pointed out would be upgrades. The jump calcs were also jacked up as he noted a few pages later. He also never even specified what the target mob was or buffs given if any. Motenten does excellent work, but this specific instance wasnt as transparent as most of his stuff. There was no information given about the target or buffs and only references like "6hit/5hit build" for the gear, while also having errors in the jumps. He just posted the final DPS numbers and said "Heres the winner". He asked for more 'ideal' builds and I posted them a couple pages later, but we never got any follow up. This isnt to bash Motenten at all, but to give some perspective on the3 above quote. It is not a definitive case closed because there is no supporting information on how those numbers were reached (gear/mob/buffs) and errors were found later.

We can revisit it, but it certainly isnt a case closed based on that thread.

Well,

The above would be inaccurate. He addresses that his tests are not in Abyssea therefore your post addressing giving STR Magian - Atma of the Apocalypse would decide a clear winner is inaccurate in itself.

Review Page 5 of:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18671-Thank-you-for-Stardiver!/page6

To assume that he is also using some Lesser Colibir as his target monster would be to underestimate and to discredit him and his works in what he has done. Why would he waste his time with false and or benign unrealistic numbers?

On another note he did in fact put sets in that he was applying math to involving a 5 hit and 6 hit w/ weapons in question. Which still provided same answers as before. After errors were corrected it still didn't put OAT in any brighter light.

At this point, I think the way to go is to revisit the ideal sets for /SAM 5 hit, and 6 hit and even go further with it to apply that to a /WAR for end game zergs.

With all that's being said it sounds like as long as I'm utilizing Camlann's Torment for the aftermath (which I do) then I might as well stick with the Rhongomiant.

The STR polearm, TP Bonus polearm, and OAT may all provide slightly higher WS numbers for stardiver (or more frequent with the OAT) but for the amount of effort required to receive a minor boost... meh.

If anything maybe I'll just do a Gungnir because as we all know doing a relic weapon is cheaper than 1500 Heavy Metal Plates and it's much easier to take to level 95/99.

...or maybe I'll just get a Ryunohige and call it a day.

I wasnt talking about my (wrong assertion) that it was in abyssea.
*He never said the target
*He never said what buffs if any were used
*The gearsets he was using to compare were very flawed (drg cant even equip atlia earring) and he asked for 'better' sets which were provided later but we never got any followup to that discussion.
*Stuff has changed since January. New gear. Jump timers. SaveTP nerf will soon kick in.


Regardless of personal opinions, to accept these findings with such obvious flaws is a little silly. The results may not change the rankings, but to take a flawed comparison and proclaim "Done!" just isnt scientific. This needs to be looked at before we proclaim an official order.

This is also why I didnt say it was better than gugnir because I cant say for certain. I just said its behind Ryu, 'might' be above rhongo, and IF it 'might' be above rhongo then its below Ryu and 'maybe' above rhongo which is the spot gug holds. All we know 100% for sure is that Ryu>Gug>Rhongo and OAT is somewhere behind Ryu. Where EXACTLY would need to just be mathed out 1st. I cant go on record for anything else because the current comparisons are a little flawed.

I was able to identify the incorrect gear pieces though, and yes in a later post it was addressed, and he made his corrections.

In the end it was still a 5 hit, vs a 6 hit.

The main factors, he focused on in the tests revolved around:

Conserve TP
Over TP
Delay

Simplicity.

If you are able to identify his mistakes and reverse math them to how it would be it still shows one undeniable fact: They're VERY close.

Regardless of what the monsters vit it, regardless of it being a Colibri he makes one clear and definitive note:

This is about WS Frequency, and Delay Two concepts which do in fact factor into your damage overall. Delay being one of the biggest factors.

It's not a surprise and it's not a surreal idea that a 6 hit is greater than a 5 hit for certain Polearms, it's been beaten to death already.

What we can revisit is simple. However I think I understand your post a little better now.

What I took from your post was this:
Ryu>Gug>Rhongo and OAT is somewhere behind Ryu.

To my understanding that implied this: Ryu>OAT>Gun>Rho

I understand that isn't the case now though. So thank you for that insight.

Im glad were on the same page. I didnt mean it as some throw down the gauntlet challenge that OAT beats gug. Just that its really darn good.

The str lance is also really good and (frankly) gets REALLY lucky with the conserve TP bein almost entirely a -1hit gain for that particular build almost every time it procs while doing virtually nothing to OAT build except create more over TP. The conserve TP meshing perfectly with a 480 delay 6hit and doing nada for a 507 5hit is an unintuitive and really huge boost to magian and probably why it always sees so much resistance. Every logical fiber for most people says the OAT lance should beat the bejesus out of str, but this oddball factor does so much to close the gap. Its wierd how much little things can swing the big picture.

Its a little wierd. The OAT 'is' a much better lance on its own, but with all the rounding and RNG, they just dont line up well with it. But thats the kind of thing we need to keep an eye on. A few new pieces of gear, or a job update, adjustment to conserveTP/saveTP or a few other minor changes in the future could completely upend this type of fragile alignment for or againt a particular weapon and suddenly the alignment shifts just enough to change the situation.

Similarly, around lv 80-85 it worked out almost opposite. There was JUST enough STP to get a 5hit with 507 del, and impossible to get without junky STP gear like that huge -atk mantle for a 492. During that window, Corsesca was truly monsterous as the only lance with a viable 5hit. Seems that is no longer the case and corsesca is falling from its high horse.

Who knows where we will be after the next update and what weapons will have a favorable alignment of gear/traits. Its what keeps this game interesting for me :) Cant just sit back and accept the status quo when very tiny nuances can be complete game changers.

And relics keep getting cheaper lol. I personally just want to make stuff that people actually wow me on haha :D We basically make this stuff to impress ourselves and others, so why half *** it.

Indeed, the game changed quite a bit with that update for Dragoons.

Conserve TP was really underapprciated and viewed as underwhelming when it was released by a lot of people who already had a 5 hit. It got completely disregarded.

In the many forum readings for OAT before I actually did it they all seemed legit and accurate. Now that I have one and have people wow'ing at parses with mythic mnks and empy wars/cors being in the top with them , not regretting ever making this. Sadly missing Hagniea stone else else get 5 hit.(so i read from forums) Don't have the ability to 'test' but if you get a mythic/trial/relic/emp/etc and you enjoy/love/can crush with it then I that's the weapon for you. ^_^

Hello!
Looking for help for a friend. Could anyone post an okish gearset (for TP and maybe Drakensbane) for a casual-player? He plays mostly for fun, is not doing any new content like Voidwatch, Neo-nyzul. This shouldnt be a "top best gear" cause he would never be able to reach it. Anyone has an idea whats an okish set for DRG is? probably ignoring x-hit build aswell, ignore any Voidwatch gear and Neo Nyzul gear. So many sets i see latly all include stuff like that and i have no clue what DRG's could/should wear if they dont have access to best gear choices.

Knowing the budget would of been nice, but this is pretty cheap honestly. Obviously, NQ if can't get +1 (except for Empy crap) and +1 if can't get +2 (for empy crap). If anything here seems unreasonable let me know and I'll provide an alternative.

Thew Bomblet WRU

Also is that lance is the new best non magian/relic/mythic/blah blah blah alternative?

Both from Bismark

These are probably the top 4 (with Ereptor)

delay on that HQ one kills it ; ;

Sucks you can't 5 hit it but I am kind of used to delays of 480 atm(with other jobs). It's some what easy for a DRG to 6 hit it /WAR at least. With the release of newer Nyzul gear, +2 body, goading, rajas/tyrant's ring etc.

If the stun procs 100% then it is seems to have some decent utility.

Thx alot for your help! I dont know Budget very well aswell.. but he kinda goes like "hmmm..." when i tell him to buy something for like 100k lol but can work on that!

Would Agasaya Collar be a decent alternitive to Rancor Collar for now?
Well he is Taru.. dont has many HP Periapts (or w/e name for abyssea stuff was) and hardly uses any gearchanges and he runs around alot on DRG solo or with others-not-mage so just a guess.. but i think rancor wouldnt be best choice for him (beside i'll get a hmmm... anyways when i tell him to buy 200k neck for which he needs to kill tonberrys first lol)

for those who havent read my previous post: gear for a casual player, no VW, no Neonyzul stuff

Not much gets close to Rancor collar, but Agasaya is just fine.