Paladin FAQ, Info, And Trade Studies.

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Paladin FAQ, Info, and Trade Studies.
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 Ragnarok.Yatenkou
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By Ragnarok.Yatenkou 2014-01-24 12:30:40
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Sweet jesus
 Phoenix.Neosutrax
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2014-01-24 12:38:16
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Did the Galka use any WS bonus JAs before that?
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2014-01-24 12:46:21
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No, SAM SP2 wasn't on. Regardless of that, how could it possibly do that much damage with intervene on? Intervene should be making the monsters acc/atk 1.
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By Fafnir 2014-01-24 12:48:48
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Have the attack/accuracy down effects for Intervene been quantified, curious to know. If it still needs to be, it helps that EV can use it multiple times <.<

The only information I have found so far is that it is blunt damage
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2014-01-24 12:56:48
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All I know is EV sets your atk/acc to 1, but I don't know if it's just a severe penalty or what. Regardless, it should be a high enough penalty to where a 2.7k fudo should be impossible.
 Bismarck.Hsieh
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By Bismarck.Hsieh 2014-01-24 13:09:31
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The thing with EV is she strips buffs. Just be aware which buffs she takes. The important ones to keep is shell, phalanx, and earthen armor. She usually takes the last one casted on you. If you have earthen armor and phalanx up, you should be fine. She stole earthen armor one time and did 3k+ dmg to me. Her deadly combo is casting a divine spell then doing Arrogance Incarnate.

As for the Galka, I've never died or taken that much damage. Are you sure you had phalanx up? The galka is usually troublesome when he skillchains. I disrupt the skillchains by casting shadows in between WSes. On AA fights, he misses WS frequently without having to use intervene.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-01-24 13:52:38
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i don't think anyone is worried about elvaan, i tank it with only scherzo and don't recast any buffs and have never died to it

he asked about a potential bug with intervene(and i'm going to side with the bug here, that damage is way out of normal range even without intervene..)
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-01-24 14:36:34
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Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »
Has anyone parsed their Ochain shield block rates on VD AA fights? I want to see if the increased difficulties is just raising the AA's levels, or if SE just bumps up their stats a lot.
I've never seen an unblocked WS on GK with Ochain in all the VD I've spammed. And with GK, you could tell for sure cause you'd get enfeebled by anything but fudo. And If fudo wasn't blocked, it'd probably just kill you. <,<

Phoenix.Dramatica said: »
I'm wondering if I'm misunderstanding how intervene works or if there was some bug here, had intervene on AAGK VD+cocoon+ochain+hybrid PDT (1800~def, 40% PDT) and took a 2700 fudo yesterday. I'm trying to figure out how this is even possible unless intervene bugged and capped the mobs attack instead of flooring it.
Code
[23:41:02]SPECIALCODEx1F>EArk SPECIALCODEx1F>EAngel SPECIALCODEx1F>EGK uses Tachi: Fudo.
[23:41:02]÷Dramatica takes 2740 points of damage.
[23:41:02]÷Dramatica was defeated by SPECIALCODEx1F>EArk SPECIALCODEx1F>EAngel SPECIALCODEx1F>EGK.
[23:41:03]Not enough TP.
[23:41:03]Not enough TP.
[23:41:03]÷Dramatica's SPECIALCODEx1F>¿Stoneskin effect wears off.
[23:41:03]Not enough TP.
[23:41:03]Not enough TP.
[23:41:06](Dramatica) what
[23:41:06]SPECIALCODEx1F>EArk SPECIALCODEx1F>EAngel's SPECIALCODEx1F>EWyvern hits îPlusx for 228 points of damage.
[23:41:08]Ryeka uses Celerity.
[23:41:09]Ryeka starts casting Arise on ÷Dramatica.
[23:41:10](Suji) binding
[23:41:10]SPECIALCODEx1F>EArk SPECIALCODEx1F>EAngel's SPECIALCODEx1F>EWyvern hits îPlusx for 192 points of damage.
[23:41:11]SPECIALCODEx1F>EArk SPECIALCODEx1F>EAngel SPECIALCODEx1F>EGK hits SPECIALCODEx1F>ÌCarmisse for 762 points of damage.
[23:41:11]œSuji uses Shadowbind.
[23:41:11]SPECIALCODEx1F>EArk SPECIALCODEx1F>EAngel SPECIALCODEx1F>EGK is bind.
[23:41:12]<Rhapsode> ...
[23:41:12]Ryeka casts Arise on ÷Dramatica.
[23:41:17]SPECIALCODEx1F>EArk SPECIALCODEx1F>EAngel SPECIALCODEx1F>EGK's SPECIALCODEx1F>¿Intervene effect wears off.
And you even had cureskin up.... I think the rest of us are probably about as confused as you are. <,<

Now if we think about this before considering Intervene, is looks possible to take that much dmg from fudo.... If you didn't block, somehow. Was it moving shortly before or around the time it WS'd? I've had some weird stuff happen with blocks when mobs are moving. Kinda like they hit you in the side cause they were facing you at an angle or something. That or Ochain isn't quite capped on these and you got screwed by a 1~5% chance. Was reprisal up?

Ochain is -66% dmg on block. 2700*0.34=918. Highest Fudo I've ever seen was about 1k with Burtgang. So that seems within possible range.

But once we consider that intervene was up, everything just goes straight out the window...

I think there's only two things that can be done about this.

1: Intervene testing. Can try to find out if intervene is bugged, of if there are certain things that bypass it somehow.

2: Bug report on SE forums. Might be best to do this one after testing intervene to see if this can be duplicated. God only knows if SE will do anything about it even then though.
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2014-01-24 14:42:50
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Was definitely facing me and not at a weird angle or anything, I was thinking it could be a bug where it somehow capped his attack instead of flooring it, that kind of damage would make sense even with a block.
 Phoenix.Neosutrax
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2014-01-24 17:25:31
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So I've been playing with my ex's old account lately, testing how useful non REM Paladins (with otherwise capped gear) can handle newer content. I've always found it frustrating that other jobs can show up to events and do well without REM (obviously the return of REM ranger and VD AA changes that a bit).

The addition of iLvL weapons that are within 3-5% of their REM counterparts allow other jobs to enjoy content without REM, however it seems like Paladin gets a disadvantage in that I feel naked without Burtgang/Aegis/Ochain..

That being said, Kiljeader shield isn't that far behind Ochain in terms of total damage reduction over time. It does however leave you vulnerable to unblocked single spike damage (like GK Fudo..), which means you have to re-evaluate your setups and plan on Scherzo/EA, or use less Enmity rich subs (/nin).

My ex's account is also Taru, so that adds a bit more trouble/fun to the equation.

It would be nice to provide some strategy/equipment guides for people that love Paladin, but don't want to spend the 600mil to cap it out. What subs/additional buffs/strats would you guys suggest for newer AA/Delkfut tower fights, for non REM PLDs?
 Bismarck.Hsieh
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By Bismarck.Hsieh 2014-01-24 21:30:36
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Are you using a Repulse mantle? Sometimes the AA's can knock you back and cause you not to block correctly anymore. My blocks were messed up when I forgot my mantle last night.
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2014-01-24 22:06:21
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I'm not stupid lol, galka doesn't even knockback btw.
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 Sylph.Feary
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By Sylph.Feary 2014-01-25 21:14:15
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i assuming max acc set is for all gear that is best in slots?
 Carbuncle.Akivatoo
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By Carbuncle.Akivatoo 2014-01-26 13:46:40
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Anyone have good parse tool to share ?

@Dramatica: sub WAR For AAGK VD is pretty good.
we do it safe with PLD BRD COR RNG RNG RNG.
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2014-01-26 14:35:44
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These responses are really hilarious, do you not even read the posts?
 Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
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By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2014-01-26 16:00:04
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Did you have a shield equipped, Dramatica?

Are you sure you weren't on BLM, with no gear?
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 Phoenix.Neosutrax
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2014-01-26 16:01:21
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I love this thread lol.
 Phoenix.Neosutrax
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2014-01-26 16:12:36
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On a serious note, since Ochain's block rates are still capped on AA fights, it means the VD fights don't just "raise the AA's levels" and instead raise their attributes/stats.

Thus, and correct me if I'm wrong, even with floored pDif values, we could still see high WS values due to extraordinary stat values.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-01-26 16:41:33
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Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »
On a serious note, since Ochain's block rates are still capped on AA fights, it means the VD fights don't just "raise the AA's levels" and instead raise their attributes/stats.

Thus, and correct me if I'm wrong, even with floored pDif values, we could still see high WS values due to extraordinary stat values.
Hmmm, is there a mob pDIF floor? One that's greater than 0. Pdif is a mulitpler. So no matter how high your stats are, if pDIF is 0, you're gonna hit 0.
 Phoenix.Neosutrax
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2014-01-26 17:14:51
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Well, either there is a pDif floor for mobs, the AA's stat/attribute buffs are added after our normal damage equations, or Intervene glitches..

edit: Or the attack boost the AAs get on VD is so high that even after Intervene, their attack is still capped (so Intervene just subtracts a static amount of attack, rather than forcing it to 1).
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-01-26 18:01:53
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As intervene is new, and not well tested by the player base, I'm inclined to think the issue lies there.

And the AA cannot possible have enough atk to remain capped after -1000~ atk. You can tell this just by looking at dmg taken with and without cocoon. It does make a difference. Thus they can't be capping atk by over 1000.
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By Leviathan.Egonn 2014-01-28 07:01:13
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Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Are you using a Repulse mantle? Sometimes the AA's can knock you back and cause you not to block correctly anymore. My blocks were messed up when I forgot my mantle last night.


I second this. Don't underestimate the repulse mantle. It really does nullify EV's knockback and reduces the ridiculous stun since you block more efficiently. Shabti Gauntlet's are also a step up from Cizin gloves atm also which is something I would look into before you dump 20m on getting 4pdt/2da on cizin.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-01-28 07:36:22
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Quote:
Thus they can't be capping atk by over 1000.

Nope but they can have it be



Over 9000
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-01-28 08:11:33
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While there's the distinct possibility you posted that just get to use that old joke... I'm still going to refute it on the off chance that someone actually believes you.

The exact same thing I just said continues to apply. If they were over atk capped by that much, cocoon wouldn't make any difference in dmg taken. Neither would using berserk or counterstance increase the dmg you take any.

Go use Counterstance/berserk on a VD AA. I wanna watch. XD
 Phoenix.Neosutrax
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2014-01-28 08:56:57
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Should run some parses with/without cocoon and start nailing down their attack.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-01-28 09:16:19
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Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »
Should run some parses with/without cocoon and start nailing down their attack?.
If I wanted anything precise, I'd have to not swap gear. The def/vit differences between older pieces of gear, and new PDT pieces is pretty huge. Said difference would be further multiplied when cocoon was up. And I still use a lot of pre-ilvl gear for fastcast/enmity/etc.

Personally, I've no intention of going to that much trouble. So this particular project will be someone else's problem.
 Bismarck.Hsieh
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By Bismarck.Hsieh 2014-01-28 09:26:34
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Leviathan.Egonn said: »
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Are you using a Repulse mantle? Sometimes the AA's can knock you back and cause you not to block correctly anymore. My blocks were messed up when I forgot my mantle last night.


I second this. Don't underestimate the repulse mantle. It really does nullify EV's knockback and reduces the ridiculous stun since you block more efficiently. Shabti Gauntlet's are also a step up from Cizin gloves atm also which is something I would look into before you dump 20m on getting 4pdt/2da on cizin.
Dramtica is correct that galka doesn't do knockback move.I used intervene on the galka AA the other day and did not experience that much damage intake below 25.

@Dramtica, do you have the data leading up to the 2700 dmg like from when you started using intervene? Sorry if it sounds like we think you can't tank. Just hard to figure out what happened.
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By Phoenix.Neosutrax 2014-01-28 09:34:39
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »
Should run some parses with/without cocoon and start nailing down their attack?.
If I wanted anything precise, I'd have to not swap gear. The def/vit differences between older pieces of gear, and new PDT pieces is pretty huge. Said difference would be further multiplied when cocoon was up. And I still use a lot of pre-ilvl gear for fastcast/enmity/etc.

Personally, I've no intention of going to that much trouble. So this particular project will be someone else's problem.

Attack' lol.

I slept about 3 hours last night due to food poisoning. Maybe ill run some parses laster this week.
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