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FFXI-2
 Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-17 09:04:43
Afania, you may be forgetting to factor in the "SW" of "SWTOR".
Star Wars folks are pretty damned dedicated* and if it isn't exactly what they want out of their beloved franchise they will turn on it and loathe it, all the while still paying for it and fawning over it.
In fact, I'm pretty sure that "Star Wars Fandom Disorder" is going to be in the next DSM as it's own entry under Personality Disorders.
*Dedicated like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction
As if FFXIV has no IP value!
IMO, ARR being FF MMO is one main reason why it'd sell. Other wise it's just another generic MMO #104.
Further more, SW is an IP that only sells in the NA, it doesn't sell in Asia, JP and I don't think it sells well in EU as well?
FF sells everywhere around the world. With Korea/China being the biggest MMO market on earth, an IP that can't sell in Korea/China= auto death. A FF MMO certainly has more market than SW MMO. Considering SW related game will never sell in Asia, SWTOR wasn't THAT bad.
Edit: ARR also gain an advantage of being the only current gen AAA JP MMO worth playing atm. I can't think of any other current-gen AAA titles besides ARR that work well in both JP and NA/EU markets.
 Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-17 09:08:48
[+]
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1155
By Bahamut.Soraishin 2014-07-17 09:20:10
lol have you actually tried it?
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-17 09:21:49
*** yes I have!! But I don't have time to explore it deeper than the few hours I did.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1155
By Bahamut.Soraishin 2014-07-17 09:24:12
It's not one of those MMO's you can just sit back and let the thing Auto complete quests and whatnot is it?
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-17 09:27:50
Quests seem about the same as basically all other mmo. I liked the jrpg aspect to it though with stats and stuff. Either way if I had time for a second mmo Tera still remains my favourite. Or if I had time *and* money I'd play Arrrr without questions.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-17 09:31:39
Afania, you may be forgetting to factor in the "SW" of "SWTOR".
Star Wars folks are pretty damned dedicated* and if it isn't exactly what they want out of their beloved franchise they will turn on it and loathe it, all the while still paying for it and fawning over it.
In fact, I'm pretty sure that "Star Wars Fandom Disorder" is going to be in the next DSM as it's own entry under Personality Disorders.
*Dedicated like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction
As if FFXIV has no IP value!
IMO, ARR being FF MMO is one main reason why it'd sell. Other wise it's just another generic MMO #104.
Further more, SW is an IP that only sells in the NA, it doesn't sell in Asia, JP and I don't think it sells well in EU as well?
FF sells everywhere around the world. With Korea/China being the biggest MMO market on earth, an IP that can't sell in Korea/China= auto death. A FF MMO certainly has more market than SW MMO. Considering SW related game will never sell in Asia, SWTOR wasn't THAT bad.
Edit: ARR also gain an advantage of being the only current gen AAA JP MMO worth playing atm. I can't think of any other current-gen AAA titles besides ARR that work well in both JP and NA/EU markets.
Err...I may have left my point incomplete.
My point was that Star Wars fans self-identify as such, but tend to hate everything that comes out Star Wars related for not being "good eough". The prequel movies and merchandise obviously made a metric *** of money, much of which came from these fans. But they will talk for ages about how much they hate them.
Nothing is ever good enough.
Hence why SWTOR was doomed from the start.
KOTOR itself was really the only thing that dodged that in all that time, as far as I can tell.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1155
By Bahamut.Soraishin 2014-07-17 09:33:22
speaking of time and money, Destiny Beta drops today. Gonna give it a go and see if it is as good as they hyped it up to be. Bungie rarely disappoints so it should be a good time killer while waiting for imprenteurs.
Quetzalcoatl.Zorik
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 109
By Quetzalcoatl.Zorik 2014-07-17 09:41:33
Everytime I bring up Final Fantasy XIV in XI it's met with universal disdain, I don't really get it.
Because SE could have continued to develop XI instead of putting all that effort into a game that completely sucked on release.
SE decides to redo XIV and take even more manpower to get it right the second time. Meanwhile XI had been slowly decaying away. Finally after completing their work on XIV they come out with a "real" expansion for XI. But at that point it was too late as most people had already left the game, so in order for them to get more subscribers they dumb it down to make it more like XIV... In the end XI becomes a shell of what it used to be and is no longer fun to play (there are no real challenges and no real reason to put in extra work to gear up).
So yeah when XIV is brought up in XI, the majority will not be praising XIV and the affect it had on XI.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1155
By Bahamut.Soraishin 2014-07-17 09:49:00
Quetzalcoatl.Zorik said: »Everytime I bring up Final Fantasy XIV in XI it's met with universal disdain, I don't really get it.
Because SE could have continued to develop XI instead of putting all that effort into a game that completely sucked on release.
SE decides to redo XIV and take even more manpower to get it right the second time. Meanwhile XI had been slowly decaying away. Finally after completing their work on XIV they come out with a "real" expansion for XI. But at that point it was too late as most people had already left the game, so in order for them to get more subscribers they dumb it down to make it more like XIV... In the end XI becomes a shell of what it used to be and is no longer fun to play (there are no real challenges and no real reason to put in extra work to gear up).
So yeah when XIV is brought up in XI, the majority will not be praising XIV and the affect it had on XI.
I agree to an extent, there's no real challenges left for the hardcores. For the casual new/returning player they tend to run into alot of difficulty getting caught up or completing many forms of Post-SoA endgame. Just scrolling around on these forums you'll stumble upon many threads involving /ragequits , how do i's , and Is anyone else having this problem? threads. FFXI still has an edge to it that I like. It's not overly difficult but its still got the thrill to it. I'd say half the feeling of disdain for the game now is because we're in need of another merger. Some server's have it way worse than others. Group more people together and magic happens.
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-17 09:50:56
Afania, you may be forgetting to factor in the "SW" of "SWTOR".
Star Wars folks are pretty damned dedicated* and if it isn't exactly what they want out of their beloved franchise they will turn on it and loathe it, all the while still paying for it and fawning over it.
In fact, I'm pretty sure that "Star Wars Fandom Disorder" is going to be in the next DSM as it's own entry under Personality Disorders.
*Dedicated like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction
As if FFXIV has no IP value!
IMO, ARR being FF MMO is one main reason why it'd sell. Other wise it's just another generic MMO #104.
Further more, SW is an IP that only sells in the NA, it doesn't sell in Asia, JP and I don't think it sells well in EU as well?
FF sells everywhere around the world. With Korea/China being the biggest MMO market on earth, an IP that can't sell in Korea/China= auto death. A FF MMO certainly has more market than SW MMO. Considering SW related game will never sell in Asia, SWTOR wasn't THAT bad.
Edit: ARR also gain an advantage of being the only current gen AAA JP MMO worth playing atm. I can't think of any other current-gen AAA titles besides ARR that work well in both JP and NA/EU markets.
Err...I may have left my point incomplete.
My point was that Star Wars fans self-identify as such, but tend to hate everything that comes out Star Wars related for not being "good eough". The prequel movies and merchandise obviously made a metric *** of money, much of which came from these fans. But they will talk for ages about how much they hate them.
Nothing is ever good enough.
Hence why SWTOR was doomed from the start.
KOTOR itself was really the only thing that dodged that in all that time, as far as I can tell.
Huh, half of the SWTOR haters isn't even real SW fan nor even play the game. The mentality of "most expensive MMO went F2P after 1 year" automatically label the game as failure before we see the number.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1155
By Bahamut.Soraishin 2014-07-17 09:55:55
Real talk, i thought the whole Lego Star Wars series was better than KOTOR and SWTOR tbh. sounds crazy i know but Lego Star Wars was beyond epic. I still play that on old Xbox all the time when i'm hammered.
 Bismarck.Misao
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22620
By Bismarck.Misao 2014-07-17 10:01:04
I don't understand why all the hate toward SWTOR and FFXIV.
Because they treathen the existence to the game you play ?
I was gonna make a long post, but w/e. Not worth.
And no, Ffxiv 1.0 was not the 1st game to get rebooted and completely rehauled.
Anyone remembers Star Wars Galaxies ?
NOW THAT ONE WAS A BAD GAME.
[+]
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-17 10:05:39
I don't understand why all the hate toward SWTOR and FFXIV.
Because they treathen the existence to the game you play ?
I was gonna make a long post, but w/e. Not worth.
And no, Ffxiv 1.0 was not the 1st game to get rebooted and completely rehauled.
Anyone remembers Star Wars Galaxies ?
NOW THAT ONE WAS A BAD GAME.
Ppl hate SWTOR BECAUSE it's not SWG. They expected a sandbox like SWG but it's a WoW clone.
Ppl hate FFXIV ARR cuz ARR fans has to bash XI 24/7 and defend for every flawed design in that game.
[+]
Bismarck.Misao
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22620
By Bismarck.Misao 2014-07-17 10:12:29
So all current mmos are wow clones with gimmicky elements. Gotcha
 Asura.Ina
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2014-07-17 10:43:36
Most don't bash XI as a game, but rather the people who cry 24/7 that XIV should have been an XI close with improved graphics... Most of the game bashing comes from XI players who still play XIV despite their vocal hatered of it for some reason.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-17 10:49:15
Huh, half of the SWTOR haters isn't even real SW fan nor even play the game. The mentality of "most expensive MMO went F2P after 1 year" automatically label the game as failure before we see the number.
Huh.
The only hating I've seen on it has been from people I know who have tried it and are into Star Wars. Otherwise I've heard squat about it, period.
I hear more good than bad about XIV from anyone who's played it. I just have no desire for another MMO...ever. I already got suckered into playing WoW from time to time.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-17 10:50:22
I don't understand why all the hate toward SWTOR and FFXIV.
Because they treathen the existence to the game you play ?
I was gonna make a long post, but w/e. Not worth.
And no, Ffxiv 1.0 was not the 1st game to get rebooted and completely rehauled.
Anyone remembers Star Wars Galaxies ?
NOW THAT ONE WAS A BAD GAME.
Ppl hate SWTOR BECAUSE it's not SWG. They expected a sandbox like SWG but it's a WoW clone.
Ppl hate FFXIV ARR cuz ARR fans has to bash XI 24/7 and defend for every flawed design in that game.
Wait. They hate it for not being Star Wars Galaxy?
I'd have thought they'd hate it for not being KOTOR...
[+]
Asura.Ina
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17912
By Asura.Ina 2014-07-17 11:01:01
I don't understand why all the hate toward SWTOR and FFXIV.
Because they treathen the existence to the game you play ?
I was gonna make a long post, but w/e. Not worth.
And no, Ffxiv 1.0 was not the 1st game to get rebooted and completely rehauled.
Anyone remembers Star Wars Galaxies ?
NOW THAT ONE WAS A BAD GAME.
Ppl hate SWTOR BECAUSE it's not SWG. They expected a sandbox like SWG but it's a WoW clone.
Ppl hate FFXIV ARR cuz ARR fans has to bash XI 24/7 and defend for every flawed design in that game.
Wait. They hate it for not being Star Wars Galaxy?
I'd have thought they'd hate it for not being KOTOR... Both actually... It was an interesting player base in the times I've poked around in the game, no idea what it's like these days.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-17 11:04:30
I don't understand why all the hate toward SWTOR and FFXIV.
Because they treathen the existence to the game you play ?
I was gonna make a long post, but w/e. Not worth.
And no, Ffxiv 1.0 was not the 1st game to get rebooted and completely rehauled.
Anyone remembers Star Wars Galaxies ?
NOW THAT ONE WAS A BAD GAME.
Ppl hate SWTOR BECAUSE it's not SWG. They expected a sandbox like SWG but it's a WoW clone.
Ppl hate FFXIV ARR cuz ARR fans has to bash XI 24/7 and defend for every flawed design in that game.
Wait. They hate it for not being Star Wars Galaxy?
I'd have thought they'd hate it for not being KOTOR... Both actually... It was an interesting player base in the times I've poked around in the game, no idea what it's like these days.
I mean, I get that SWG did quite well for itself, but for the rabid Star Wars fans, KOTOR has been the one true shining beacon of the past 20 years. The only reason I never gave SWTOR a spin is strictly because my life has no room for other MMOs anymore.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-17 11:27:49
XI players hate XIV because it was and is directly responsible for Square removing developers and money from XI We actually have more updates than before on XI, and I would attribute this to the overall change in the higher ups at SE(baibai Wada) which has shown already that the company wants to change a few stances that had taken it down these past few years.
People who hate 14 are either 1. the ones who tried 1.0 and still can't get over it; 2. people who expect it to be the same experience as XI not realizing that it's just not gonna happen with any game from here unto forever.
XIV is its own game and people need to realize it cathers to today's market.
Sure the numbers were bad at launch of ARR too, but that was to be expected after how it tanked in 1.0, the real question is how it fares now 1 year later. I've read in a recent interview Yoshida talking about 2 mil subs, might lack official figures but I don't think you can lie about something that could be researched. Either way they're also about to launch it in China(still hasn't gone there)and that will cause another huge boost in subscriptions..you know chinese players are gonna be tons.
tldr: FFXI isn't dying. FFXIVARR isn't dying either.
Patience for these threads is dying though.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-17 11:34:43
XIV players hate XI because it retains a large enough quantity of players (especially Japanese players) that they wish would give up on XI and move to their game. Many of them will say it, why do you still play? They will post pictures to try entice people to change.
This is where my only negativity about XIV comes from (coincidentally, LoL at one point too, but that's subsided). People log in to XI, play a bit, and then start going, "Ok, you guys should come play XIV with me now!"
*** off. Seriously. It offers nothing I really care about aside from shinier graphics. If I wanted to play it, I would have already. I'm glad you like it, but stop coming around and pretending you're back into XI for a few weeks every now and then and trying to recruit people into XIV.
[+]
Siren.Bruno
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 398
By Siren.Bruno 2014-07-17 11:35:59
How is this even comparable? With FFXIV it was pretty much necessary since to reboot it since it had such incredibly negative reception. FFX-2 is a continuation of FFX's storyline, an offline game, with XI in this comparison I could see you suggesting that they could followup on storylines in an offline version of FFXI called FFXI-2, but why wouldn't they just patch it on to the actual game itself? lol.
I don't see any reason for an "FFXI-2", FFXI doesn't fall in either of those two categories.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33978
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2014-07-17 11:44:59
Even with updated graphics the people who quit XI aren't gonna come back in droves. They quit for a reason and I'm sure it's not because of graphics because that was never really an issue. XI just doesn't have the playerbase of other popular MMOs because of its core gameplay, it was always a niche game.
Today's market is simply too different and it wouldn't work, they would lose an enormous amount of money.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33978
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2014-07-17 11:46:48
XIV players hate XI because it retains a large enough quantity of players (especially Japanese players) that they wish would give up on XI and move to their game. Many of them will say it, why do you still play? They will post pictures to try entice people to change.
I have never seen anyone say this in-game, ever lol.
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-17 12:16:03
I don't understand why all the hate toward SWTOR and FFXIV.
Because they treathen the existence to the game you play ?
I was gonna make a long post, but w/e. Not worth.
And no, Ffxiv 1.0 was not the 1st game to get rebooted and completely rehauled.
Anyone remembers Star Wars Galaxies ?
NOW THAT ONE WAS A BAD GAME.
Ppl hate SWTOR BECAUSE it's not SWG. They expected a sandbox like SWG but it's a WoW clone.
Ppl hate FFXIV ARR cuz ARR fans has to bash XI 24/7 and defend for every flawed design in that game.
Wait. They hate it for not being Star Wars Galaxy?
I'd have thought they'd hate it for not being KOTOR...
SWG was one of the few sandbox MMO. After WoW era sandbox MMO became a dying breed. Just like us FFXI fans would want another current gen FFXI with improved graphic and modern gameplay, sandbox fans wanted SWG with with improved and modern sandbox MMO too.
It's quite unlikely they wanted KOTOR. MMORPG players usually don't go emo about a title being single player. Single player RPG fan may wanted KOTOR 3 but they're not the target audience.
Leviathan.Matteh
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 368
By Leviathan.Matteh 2014-07-17 12:34:45
reading this whole thread made me wanna log in to XI. I just don't play XIV due to not having a pc able to play it at eye candy level honestly. I spoiled my eyes seeing them youtube videos of it at max settings. @.@
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-17 13:20:23
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »XIV players hate XI because it retains a large enough quantity of players (especially Japanese players) that they wish would give up on XI and move to their game. Many of them will say it, why do you still play? They will post pictures to try entice people to change.
I have never seen anyone say this in-game, ever lol.
I've had it happen in game; hell, it happens on the forum. If not XIV, then people who still come here but play other games. They like to pop in and go, "FFXI is still up? LOL".
As if they were so important to the game that it just rolled over and died because they left.
[+]
They did it with X-2 and they did a complete overhaul of FFXIV. Square enix have ventured into a new MMO venture with Dragon Quest X, which has only been released thus far, into the Japanese market. There is of course room for another MMO, the question isn't when, but rather what it will be, here's my hope:
Seeing as FFXI, initially at least, was a success, I think they could perhaps take the core elements from the game, and do a graphical overhaul to appease those who base their views on a visual spectacle, rather than a game play driven experience. There is so much to take from this game, and build on. SE must have learnt a bundle from this, if you consider how many patches, updates and overhauls they have done to this game over the year, if they were to release a successor, they would be much better prepared to bring a game to the table with more play-ability and more longevity.
I personally think FFXIV is a spectacular failure. The game is horrific, and for somebody that has played both versions of the game, I am qualified to have an educated opinion on it. I would rather see everything square enix bring out be a success, it would be a travesty to see them fall into huge debt and disappear like many Japanese companies have only recently with Atlus, and many others. It would lessen the quality of games available to the player base.
Essentially, I want them to make another MMO, but taking most of the successful elements from FFXI.
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