Low Man Delve Discussion

I have joined several PUG groups for low man and has not gone the way I had hoped. I was hoping to get some suggestions for best setups for a 6 man group preferably the BEE. The pug groups almost always do Tojil an the Sch always misses a Lahar and it goes downhill from there.
I am on Bahamut and there is a shortage of good players left that will actually help and I am not paying 15 mil for a clear on the bee which is the last one I need.

So which of the 3 is the easiest now?
Which of the 3 has the most flexibility for jobs?

I appreciate any responses I get..

Well it is hard to get schs because if they make one mistake people jump down their throat blaming them as if that person is a perfect player and never makes a mistake. It's not much fun getting blamed for everything being ruined because you missed something for whatever reason. Suggestion, Don't go just blaming sch when run fails. Just move on and try again.

Bee zone is easy if you can bring some quality samurais with namas build (maybe apex works just as well, but we've always had samurais with amano/yoichi).

We often go with drg sam sam brd whm sch, with this setup our bee dies in 2mins. you can replace the drg with a mnk or some other form of DD, you could possibly go with 1 samurai (one of our sams forgot his yoichi once and we still cleared it comfortably), possibly a good blu can replace the samurais and make your scorpion fight easier, but not tried, unsure.

You might be able to loose your sch, but that requires your bard to be on the top form on debuffing mastop/scorpion, your whm also needs to be prepared for DDs to eat the zombie/weakened moves.

If you bring DDs with relic that has debuffs as extra effects, make sure they have some other weapon on them for Tax'et

that being said, setups only go so far, it's the quality of players that counts. 6 Man delve is only easier because you can invite less derps. ^^;

"easier" is subjective, but I would probably say bosswise the most forgiving is probably Bee, then Tojii, then Shark. For ease of NMs, I'd say Tojii's are the weakest since most of their conditions allow the most flexibility. Then probably Bee, Shark.

Ideally, for some reason people love flapping their epeens in the air, but as much as "OMG we can win with 6 now you can't, you must suck" is flying around, pay it no mind.

Taking into consideration that maybe your group doesn't have all the super elite 119 decked out gears, you all haven't had time to lock in as tight as some of the static experienced 6 mans groups find a group that will roll with 8-10 if you just haaaave to low man it.

Use those extra slots to pad you support. All of the bosses will still count on reliable stunners and if you don't have these, you're in for a rough ride.

Morimar DD wise I still prefer to just throw monks at everything. Their PDT and higher HP gives you a higher chance of survival if something like lahar lands.
Ceizek piercing works best here, but again I normally look at a monk to anchor, thief, dragoon, ranger, samurai (with proper piercing gear) pretty much round it out.
Foret given my lazyness, throwing monks at everything again.

Support, wise you healers need to be on point, letting people sit in low hp and not keeping them capped and cureskinned when things like lahar land (Damn you stunner) is the difference between winning and losing. Or on the shark...if something like Tidal Guillotine lands and they're yellow hp, this will KO which is just as bad as people not knowing how to 5-20 and eating mayhem. Knowing when to use things like Sacrifice to remove enfeebles like slowga instead of erase (Toji) since the aura will usually eat erase first.

And research the zones and mobs. Make sure people understand what to do on each mob. Everyone always "knows" but then when you throw them in the mix, it all goes to the pooper. Shark dun care that you've played this game since the beginning of creation when you're standing at 10 because you was too busy patting yourself on the back for being ahead on the parse at 90% (Not saying I've seen this happen....or have I?)

ty for the response. My only issue with your setup is getting a Sam or 2 with relic in a PUG is probably near to impossible. Delve is not being done much anymore. I don't see many ppl on my server wanting to help (at least not for free). I am probably going to have to settle for players with easy to obtain gear and weapons with merit

It's this, but not only this.

Delve has a very complex NM dynamic in which, until recently, only a certain % of the end-game player base has obtained sufficient experience in. Those individuals were regular participants in 18-man runs and were able to obtain plenty of experience with all 3 Fractures. So in many cases those same players were invited back time and time again provided they didn't suck at their Delve-ready job(s). Because usually the same leaders were the ones organizing PUG's regularly, they could be very picky about who they invited and thus shunning those who they determined weren't Delve-ready (whether it be due to not having the correct gear, skill or both). This obviously left the other 90% of the servers in a position to never get a chance at doing Delve.

Now with the latest update, SE has opened the doors to Delve to everyone in order to make it more accessible (which is great), however, now you have everyone who before didn't care enough about Delve to research each Fracture and individual NM dynamic and see what the particulars are. Instead, they just hop into a 6-man PUG and blindly do runs without adequate preparation.

I've seen time and time again tons of folks who want to do Delve, want to obtain the gear, but have no desire or interest in researching the mechanics and specifics of each Fracture/NM. This alone more often than not can sabotage the success chances for the entire group before you even step foot inside Cirdas Caverns.

As a stun SCH, I can assure you that I've missed my fair share of stuns, but I can also tell you that any job can cause a failed run whether it be a WHM who ran out of MP prematurely due to not having an adequate Refresh idle gear, or a MNK who didn't know what they were doing on Mata, or a BRD who went afk after the initial songs went on. We all know there are plenty of examples out there.

Apex builds might work as that's what people has been using with before REM update. It's all about having decent dps, regardless of specific pieces of gear. Samurai needs to do good range ws for this setup and the question is whether you are able to get hands on a samurai or 2 that has range ws build.

I've seen eminent bow rangers out performing yoichis, I'm not saying it's a must have, but I'm only saying this is my experience and I can't tell you about anything less because i haven't tried it before, but it is probably possible.

Alternatively, pld rng x3 whm brd probably also works well. Pld can probably eat every TP move without dying. You might have better luck with getting rngs since a lot of people levelled it for AAs, and they need plasm for ammo.

You could also try mnkx3 and save HF FS for the last 25%. This may or may not work and probably more prone to failure depending on how good are the mnks.

And again, bring a BLU for requiescat to bypass that -DT is also a well used strategy(Quality of BLUs vary greatly and I wouldn't go for this unless you know that BLU has decent gear sets).

I'd suggest beading T3 T4 T5 if you can't find quality players to go with. (might want to dry run it with the group first to make sure they arent stupid if you're doing it with PUGs)

We sell delve wins for 6M with all non money drops if you want to transfer to cerby :P

@echandra I appreciate your help.
I will focus on a PUG for the BEE and start researching the nm's. I assume they are just lower hp like the boss and not easier?

I took 3 months off and came back to no LS I got my work cut out for me but I can't stop my obsession with this game. I will work on making new friends with similar interests and hope to knock this out soon.

Talk to Yinzi. Our LS does AA/DM/Delve regularly

We run 18-man events, talk to our sackholder and see what he says. Ls is ReVision, very nice group of people

Ty I would love to actually get into Ls again. I have no problem leveling other jobs if needed. I will talk 2 him

Our LS also does the same events but no real set time schedule, usually try to do delve runs on weekends due to more availability of jobs and people online. If you are interested talk to Vuldo he is LS leader.

Delve low man allow players to form static, and together improve.
Take that chance to become an even better players, together with your friends. Each failure is one step toward victory, and once you start winning because of experiejnce/preparation instead a random chance of your sch being perfect, you wont stop winning .
Also create bond, if you didnt check the feed of ffxiah, new delve is <over there>. At least.

Back to tojil, one lahar isnt reason to failure. In fact, ive seeing lots of 18 man run, just with experienced player thta have been winning almost 100%, even then at least one lahar goes. I myself, after doing some 100% stun run, with all mists/testudo/lahar etc stunned, after an update i started to face several lags, always missing lahar, hittting the macro and no response of my char, or just i become old to that, as i won with the guys replacing me (but they also leta lahar goes) so im retired of stunning. Personally, i think at some point the lags there are so intense that one lahar its surely that will go, and dds must be prepared to that. But its easy. Pop inner strenght and you will survive at least one lahar without any extra stuff. Consecultives lahar will require a pdt set and that dds turn their back to prevent tojil to get more tp.

If the problem with your group is the SCH, become the SCH yourself. Once you've got stuns down it's easier to see where else (if anywhere) the group is slacking.

In answer to the Q, I'd put Bee < Shark < Tojil. Bee because of kill time and fairly non-threatening TP moves. Stuns sometimes hit images but it's not usually a problem, still my least favourite to stun due to the animations. Usually seem to be able to live through a couple of shark TP moves unstunned (due to aura), only usually have issues with shark when people are in the wrong range. Whereas when Tojil goes unstunned it can get pretty bad. They're all meant to be the same difficulty level though, if you can clear one then you should be able to clear the others with the same players. (with jobswaps or w/e)

You can probably take most DD jobs as long as you're prepared and have a plan for the different mechanics but you'll have an easier time with SAMs and MNKs (mura/bow, formless, higher/easier DPS).

Wrote slow, missed some replies but posting anyway!

@rng strat, someone told me 3 RNG wasn't fast enough for lowman, idk how true that is
I think BLU would be my next go-to, anyone who's prepared to play BLU in delve should hopefully know enough and be geared well enough for the content. If they aren't good enough it'll probably be obvious.

I never blame anyone in the end it's just a game... However in PUG groups if lahar goes off pugs panic and someone dies than another and so forth.

I have no problems. Leveling sch myself although I have been playing on xbox a lot more as of late not sure without the goodies sch is as effective on xbox.

There are a lot of reasons i have seen to why the PUGs i have been in have failed and i didn't mean to put all blame on sch it is just what i have experienced in the losses.

I do have a very good blue so i can use that job on bee so ty for the advice on that. I am 30 days or so away from relic bow so will be a while before i can do Sam myself.

This has given me a lot to think about Ty again everyone.

When I started stunning my main stun partner played on xbox, she had no issues with stunning in time, but was usually unable to selectively stun, this may be different in 6man or better connection, time of day or w/e. It's fairly easy to predict when the mega bosses are going to use a TP move even if you're lagging but if you have access to PC I'd recommend that.

If the stuns are flawless until resists then the SCH can't take blame, if they weren't then the blame is justified no? They are THERE to stun, if they can't stun reliably then they need to get better or get replaced (just like what would happen for any other slot). Gotta take chances and let unknown SCHs try though, else some of us would never have played SCH!

edit: remember to parse your runs (check acc, not just total damage) and time your fights

I have organised 6-8 man tojil runs and while a lot of people are advocating mnks / samurais in here for higher dps a drk with I119 ragnarok is just as good if not potentially better (gear dependent) and can easy parse first if the player themselves are decent enough on tojil and even shark.

I would say however on tojil I would want at least 1 monk for mantra which helps on lahar should it go off and the mnk themselves can 1hr inner strength if they are that concerned.

Bee on the other hand don't worry about samurais onry with namas. you can do it as some one said earlier with a pld and rngs.

Ls I am in used to do bee runs 18 man which was like 3/4 rngs cors with drg mnk mnk. Apex works on the bee fine which of course rng or samurai can use.

Stunning on console is actually extremely easy in a low man group. Stunning Tojil should never be a issue, animation stun if you must. it's kurma/Tut that are to fast for a console to hit (depending on lag) a 6man group console can stun tremor/mist no problem due to less congestion. Where in a 18 man run the hall is packed with everyone on top of you making it really difficult to event try. PC is preferred but it's not needed as reaction time and focus is what will make or break your party. With 6man delve I can bet we will see more console stunners emerge and or stunners in general. The problem now is finding optimal DDs from a pug that can take down Tojil before hitting the wall.

It's interesting that you mention this. I too have felt that the latency/congestion/lag inside a Fracture has been super smooth while stunning. It just seemed like the stun responses were crisp when compared to an 18-man group.

Blu can lock all lesser NM's in 6 man, but not in 18 man, doesn't work to stun bosses though so take that how you will,

with a Ghorn marches, any job with dark skill and haste/fastcast set can stun (RDM > SCH > DRK ect)

MNK MNK BLU BRD SCH/rdm RDM(or any stunner/support) works well for Tojil/Dakuwaqa

SAM SAM w/ relic bow BLU BRD WHM RDM(or any stunner/support) works great for Muyingwa

Anybody know about eva decrease? If Tojil's eva is decreased that means you can take down acc on set increasing dps...

From my experience with a 6 man tojil, stunning all TP moves requires a recast of around 9-10s. So before some PUG leader sees this and happily shout for a blm,drk,rdm. You might want to make sure that they have adequate gear to do this (Though I'm unsure as to whether some of these jobs have access to enough FC).

Also bear in mind that the blm/rdm/drk who joins your run as a stunner and not being able to come sch probably lack the stunning experience with recent content to be reliable (of course this might not be true, but certainly a high possibility).

If you selective stun then of course you might not need to have such a quick recast, but there's also the chance of failing to stun a back to back nasty TP move (lahar, for example).


As far as I know/feel/looking at parses, HP is the only difference.

6 Beastmaster's and you got yourself a win.

That goes without saying for any job. RDM/blm can get 8 second recast easy, drk can get 10-13 with the right gear, all this obviously with Ghorn marches and haste, its just alternatives to shouting for hours for the perfect setup

rdm's biggest issue with stunning is accuracy loss from low dark skill. sch doesn't have that issue thanks to dark arts which rdm can't use and still access stun.

We ran 7 people in Delve Foret. SAM, MNK, MNK, BRD, WHM, GEO, SCH. DD's were /RUN. 1 MNK had Verethragna. Other had Oatixur. Can't remember what SAM was using. Bard had 95 Daurdabla, 99 Ghorn. WHM had Yagrush.

It was a little overkill (could've done without GEO), but better safe than sorry. We actually wiped once to Mayhem Lantern on the Orobon, but other than that the run was very similar to 18-man without bards/corsairs having to swap parties. BRD pulled for us and slept the NM on pulls so we could kill the adds first.
Dakuwaqa was pretty easy. The more your bard can help with erase/paralyna, the easier it is on your whm.

I see a lot of people doing these 7 man delve runs, how much does the HP of the NMs jump with that additional person?

My point is on the following paragraph, for someone who jumps onto your run willing to stun on an "alternative" job, without access to sch, chances are he didn't put a lot of effort on stun set. I'd be very surprised to find a drk with the "right" gear, for example. At least in my experience with pugs, the rdm i've seen with lowest recast is 12s. which is a bit of gamble for solo stunning. Whether it can get as low as you claim i wouldn't know since i'm no rdm. That guy could've been gimp.

Generally people can't find a sch because people don't want to stun, people who try to join a run on an alternative job and doesn't have sch probably means they're trying to get a win without the right equipment.

Not sure whether drk is a good alternative unless he doesn't melee. or he might miss a stun trying to pull off a WS or something.

RDM can get 8 second recast on stun without apa

Recast isn't why RDM can't stun reliably in delve.

Since the devs put magic accuracy on item level weapons to address the lack of magic skill progression one would have otherwise gotten with "real" levels, low dark skill has become irrelevant.

August 2013: Soothsayer Staff R15 (magic accuracy 148, INT 20) or augmented Lehbrailg +1 almost closes the magic accuracy deficit between RDM and a SCH using Apamajas II (all else being equal), but people still use Focus and/or Languor anyway.

November 2013: Baqil Staff (magic accuracy skill 177, INT 12) covers the aforementioned magic accuracy deficit. Buramenk'ah has more magic accuracy skill (188).

December 2013: Venabulum (magic accuracy skill 228, INT 20) introduced.

February 2014: Lehbrailg +2 (magic accuracy skill 228, INT 12) introduced and can be further augmented with more magic accuracy.

Magic accuracy on newer weapons these days appears to be way more than sufficient for RDM to stun. In 6-man delve I can still stun bee and shark on SCH with Apamajas II without any resists (at least I haven't seen any yet). For Tojil I have seen resists with Apamajas II before the stun wall (but I should use ilevel weapon anyway b/c my recast without Alacrity is sufficient for all TP moves and slow-casting magic), but RDM using Lehbrailg +2 ("all else being comparable") should have no resist issues.