Animator's Workshop: A Puppetmaster's Guide 2.0

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Animator's Workshop: A Puppetmaster's Guide 2.0
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2017-09-28 17:38:30
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Asura.Sechs said: »
I don't see how I'm too "pet heavy".
Tali'ah +1 is my best TP body regardless of pet.
I need feet for the Pet Haste.
I need Hybrid cape for the Pet Haste.
I need a Pet haste belt as well
Shulmanu Collar is actually a pretty good tradeoff when you need acc, I see pet stuff as icing on the cake given the situation.
I'm not using pet rings or earrings.

So we're basically left with the Head, Hands and Legs slots.
I already said I'm gonna swap Head for Hizamaru+2
For the other slots Tali'ah is basically the highest master acc items I have for PUP.
Sure I could Swap for Hizamaru, but they have more or less the same acc as Tali'ah, so might as well use Tali'ah?
That was my point.

Tali'ah hands and legs kinda suck for TP purposes, and you don't need them. Honestly, the only Tali'ah piece of the three slots that you mentioned that I WOULD consider is the head, for decent acc for master/pet and a helpful pet STP.

Since I think you have Su3 access, I'd suggest maybe looking into Heyoka legs and just roll with something like the below. Alternately, could just stick with your Tali'ah+1 feet (good enough with 25% haste from back/waist/feet), and just go full master in legs slot with Samnuha Tights.

ItemSet 353435
- If your pet is struggling keeping up with TP, maybe toss on Enmerkar Earring as well.
- Herc hands/feet are fully master-focused

Your pet prob shouldn't be having serious Acc issues to the point where you really need to stack more pet acc in hands/feet - right? If you're parsing low on pet acc, might be better taking a couple attachment slots for accuracy than giving up gear that affects master and puppet.

(Also, sorry for my ninja editing but I did just tack on some more STP talk to my previous post right before your reply. Might be relevant.)
 Leviathan.Stamos
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By Leviathan.Stamos 2017-09-28 17:47:11
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Agree with Cap mostly on his set. Though, I am partial to Samnuha over Heyoka in the legs slot if you can handle the acc hit. As long as you keep keep the chain going between you and your Automaton you are fine.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-09-28 18:19:13
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Tali'ah hands and legs kinda suck for TP purposes
Well Heyoka Hands and Legs aren't much better.
NQ Heyoka Legs actually offers 1 less acc than Tali'ah+1 and 7% Crit, which is all good but not particularly relevant (if that were multiattack now we would be talking!)

Plus you're missing the key point that Heyoka costs lots of gil, Tali'ah is free XD XD
I'm using this setup just to cap JP solo (I'm mising less than 300).
Granted that I could resell Heyoka when I'm done, so really no big deal, if I can avoid buying it then I'm gonna be happier!

My Herc Hands are nice with 6% TA but they're ~17 less acc than Tali'ah.
Might be ok to swap after I use Sublime Sushi but I'm not 100% sure, need to recheck my acc =/
Feet I'm not too keen on swapping because of the haste on them (which again would bring me back to the starting point of having to buy Heyoka Legs)
Plus my Herc feet are ~7 less acc than Tali'ah +1

Quote:
and just go full master in legs slot with Samnuha Tights.
No way Master acc would be enough.
Full tali'ah +1 provides a *** of acc to the master, and that still was NOT enough to cap acc on those bats.
I wasn't too far off either tbf, but I can't really afford too much acc loss in any slot, even if I consider the +30 Acc I'm gonna get from swapping Shiromochi>SublimeSushi


Quote:
- If your pet is struggling keeping up with TP, maybe toss on Enmerkar Earring as well.
Sometimes he was, but I wonder why because his acc was totally capped.
I think that I miscalculated the Haste values and that Ionis haste bonus maybe doesn't apply to pet? That would explain it.

If that was the issue it's gonna be fixed once I swap from Hurc'lan to Klouskap (which I sold... so I'm gonna have to rebuy again sigh)
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-09-28 18:39:34
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are you on apex bats or the lower level ones?
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By Aerix 2017-09-28 23:37:44
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Are you using /checkparam <pet> + Target Market value to determine whether your Accuracy is capped or are you using the Scoreboard plugin to parse it?

I actually find that Scoreboard seems to have some trouble tracking Pet Accuracy properly for some reason. It often shows my maton at 99%+ Accuracy even after 1000~ recorded attacks, when it should normally cap at 95%. Unless, of course, SE removed the Acc cap for pets?
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By clearlyamule 2017-09-29 00:16:24
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Aerix said: »
Are you using /checkparam <pet> + Target Market value to determine whether your Accuracy is capped or are you using the Scoreboard plugin to parse it?

I actually find that Scoreboard seems to have some trouble tracking Pet Accuracy properly for some reason. It often shows my maton at 99%+ Accuracy even after 1000~ recorded attacks, when it should normally cap at 95%. Unless, of course, SE removed the Acc cap for pets?
Um yeah same update that removed it for 1hders.

Though it definitely doesn't apply to ranged right now even though lol complete eyeballing it sure seemed like it did until the monster skill nerf.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-09-29 01:16:47
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
are you on apex bats or the lower level ones?
Apex fat bats in Ra'kaz of course. On the normal ones I cap acc with my nonacc set and no buffs of course xD


Aerix said: »
Are you using /checkparam <pet> + Target Market value to determine whether your Accuracy is capped or are you using the Scoreboard plugin to parse it?
I was using Checkparam for me and pet to see how much it was needed (and how I determined that the necessary value has got to be somewhere around 1350) but I ultimately used Scoreboard to measure my acc rate in 1-2 hours of figths.

My pet acc with maneuvers up was a bit less than 1400, and that's before factoring Target Marker which obviously doesn't get displayed in the checkparam results.

Master's acc instead was more precise since I only have +acc values, and it was between 1300 and 1350 leading me to the reported acc level of... how much was it? I think ~92% or something around that.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2017-09-29 01:29:51
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Asura.Sechs said: »
NQ Heyoka Legs actually offers 1 less acc than Tali'ah+1 and 7% Crit, which is all good but not particularly relevant (if that were multiattack now we would be talking!)

My thinking isn't so much that Heyoka Subligar is leaps and bounds better than Tali'ah+1 legs for the master or pet acc, as they're more or less sidegrades there (though, hey, master crit rate+7% isn't nothing)... but the real benefit is the large chunk of pet haste enabling you to ditch Tali'ah FEET for a far better master TP option in that slot - Herculean Boots. Though since YMMV on augments, perhaps I'm overlooking that my comparison is generally to my own Herc Boots - which beat Tali'ah+1 master accuracy (I have lucky DEX+7/Acc+34/Atk+36 augs, plus the base Acc+10... in addition to the total TA+6%).

Especially if you're concerned about master accuracy if you went with Samnuha (which I do think is another viable choice in many cirucmstances), I find the Heyoka Legs/Herc Boots combo to provide a nice balance. Pet accuracy wise, your puppet should be able to handle a couple armor slots that have master-only focus, especially if you're already running stuff like Tali'ah or Heyoka body or head.

Also, if your worries are accuracy (master or pet) and capping pet haste... remind me again why you aren't just using Ohtas?
That would really solve your accuracy issues, AND would make capping pet haste trivial with 20% already there from just weapon/cape. Now that I think about it, maybe that's the real answer. Your master WS would be weaker, but I can't imagine you wouldn't be making it up in TP generation and rolling through more frequent "self" master+puppet skillchains - same logic would apply to choosing KKK over Godhands.

I kinda view Godhands (and Vere) more as MNK weapons. For PUP, I never even really think about weapons that aren't KKK, Ohtas, or a tanking H2H (which obviously isn't relevant to a discussion about hybrid TP builds on Apex stuff).

If you don't have Ohtas already and just don't want to pay the materials to Oboro to make them... well, I guess that's not totally unreasonable. Still, even if you're capped JP and have every possible weapon in the game, Ohtas retain some good utility in:
(1) pet-only DD situations where you don't necessarily need the defense of a tanking-oriented H2H (hell, even if you do you can just slap on a DT armor piece since you'll have more flexibility there due to less need to make up pet acc/haste through armor -prob better to take 10% haste/70 acc off the weapon slot), OR
(2) any melee acc-heavy situations for master and/or puppet (including high end Apex CPing, as you've demonstrated).

Somewhat of an aside re: Heyoka:
I also like the full NQ set for enmity+ purposes. Since tanking is which is what I do most of the time I'm on PUP, I found it pretty worthwhile to build an enmity set and I was totally comfortable dropping the gil on 5/5 NQ. I suppose I would have been a lot more reluctant to buy them if not for the enmity applications though. Though since I *do* have them, being able to mix them into hybrid TP sets is nice bonus and adds some flexibility to gear choices (particularly for pet haste options, relevant for Mythic for sure).
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-09-29 02:11:10
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
(though, hey, master crit rate+7% isn't nothing)
Don't get me wrong I love crit, but it's not gonna help me in the current situation, that was my point :D


Quote:
but the real benefit is the large chunk of pet haste enabling you to ditch Tali'ah FEET for a far better master TP option in that slot - Herculean Boots.
I see your point but in my case my Herc boots have like ~7 less acc than Tali'ah in exchange for 5% TA, not sure I can afford the loss. Maaaaybe?
Probably it's a better exchange than on the Hands slot where I would lose ~16 acc for 6% TA.


Quote:
Pet accuracy wise, your puppet should be able to handle a couple armor slots that have master-only focus
Pretty confident my pet, acc wise, will be more than fine. I think he's above the necessary acc for those bats.
It's just that, as I said, Tali'ah is currently the best master acc pieces I have available for PUP.
The only other option is Hizamaru which has the same acc values but no pet acc.
As I mentioned above I was considering Hiza Head because of the Martial Arts enha (should help master getting TP slightly faster)


Quote:
Also, if your worries are accuracy (master or pet) and capping pet haste... remind me again why you aren't just using Ohtas?
Because I want to 5 step Radiance.
Without Godhands I can't do that.
...granted that in the end I'm not sure that's gonna prove worth it in terms of DPS, so you raise a valid point here.

Current SC chain I was trying to do is
Shinjin > something (compression) > Vsmite (Frag) > something (Light) > Vsmite (Radiance).

With Othas I could STILL 5 step, it's just that the last step would be a level 3 light instead of Radiance.
Uh... big deal? Of course the single SCs would do less damage because the WS would do less damage... But then again Othas opens up so many options!
I could be using a CP cape with Othas.
I could be affording a couple of Herc for sure, and blahblah.

So yeah, not sure being so stubborn on Godhands is gonna prove to be worth it, Radiance is cool but not game changing given how weak my WSs are. (Radiance was doing like 18-25k damage)
Dunno, I think it's worth trying a different setup with Othas and see how much CP/hr I can reach with those, might be worth it!


Gonna try it, thanks for offering a different perspective on the topic at hand!
Might even re-buy Klouskap as that would allow me to use CP cape instead of my hybrid cape.
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 Leviathan.Louisoix
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By Leviathan.Louisoix 2017-10-03 21:33:34
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Still slowly building a tank pup to avoid charm moves etc. Curious as to how pet enmity gear plays into it. not entirely sure when/what you use the enmity gear on. My idle gear is based on damage reduction regen and hp+ for my puppet. Im also working on a repair pot set. Just not sure how to work the enmity set in yet. thanks.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-10-03 22:01:33
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especially right before you engage the first time to get the enmity on it's abilities and after hate resets.
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By Nariont 2017-10-04 08:19:35
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Ventriloquiy, voke, and flash are the 3 main things youd want a full enmity swap. You can try for shield bash but its unpredictable on when puppet decides to do that unless it casts.
 Asura.Solymr
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By Asura.Solymr 2017-10-04 10:29:15
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So I tend to overgear before jumping into a role because I don't want to let down a group. But I was wondering if my current set would be ok for tanking Omen Bosses in a pet setup. I have the 100 gift but not the 1200.

ItemSet 353416

pet: -DT 26 with extra pet HP from rao.

I have the appropriate macro equipment for repairs and maneuvers. Is this acceptable or do I need to wait until I can get enmity pieces and/or the 1200 gift without being a liability?
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-10-04 10:30:27
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the 1200 gift is huge
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By clearlyamule 2017-10-04 11:27:43
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Depends on the boss really. Some you might be fine like Fu is pretty weak unless it absorbs a lot and then it dies fast. Gin is a super push over.

But missing 1200 gifts and a lot of gear dt would make some pretty hard. Kyou in particular has a habit of encurse into strong nuke or HF that can make things a bit close under normal circumstances
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2017-10-04 11:48:21
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I tanked all the Omen bosses on pup before I got the 1200 jp gift.

I suggest you get the anwig salade though.
 Asura.Solymr
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By Asura.Solymr 2017-10-04 12:34:14
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I don't have experience doing it, but on paper it looks like the losses from 1200JP to 100JP is having to use a level 1 stoneskin attachment instead of a level 3(doesn't seem to be a big deal) and having to go from auto repair kit III to auto repair kit 1 (does seem like a big deal). I guess I can just try to hold some similar ilevel mobs in escha to see how crippling the lack of regen is. The other attachments in the video guide seem to still fit.


Concerning anwig: Is it universally used while tanking? I have it but im hitting pet PDT cap without it and hitting 26% vs 30% on magic damage. Is that worth losing the max HP of the puppet and wearing low level gear (obviously I guess this would depend on if a mob uses abilities with a huge range like meteor). I loved being able to go from anwig to despair helm to idle in on bst when I filled out the other slots enough to hit the cap but if it will help I will make the change.

Sorry for all the questions that could probably be handled by trial and error.

edit: NM, Armor plate doesn't count toward MDT so it looks like a huge boost in MDT to go from rao to anwig. My bad. Thanks for the heads up.
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By Asura.Fabiano 2017-10-04 12:52:06
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Asura.Solymr said: »
So I tend to overgear before jumping into a role because I don't want to let down a group. But I was wondering if my current set would be ok for tanking Omen Bosses in a pet setup. I have the 100 gift but not the 1200.

ItemSet 353416

pet: -DT 26 with extra pet HP from rao.

I have the appropriate macro equipment for repairs and maneuvers. Is this acceptable or do I need to wait until I can get enmity pieces and/or the 1200 gift without being a liability?

For what it's worth, I've tanked both Fu/Kyou with less than 1200 JP (around 600~) and a similar gearset to the one you posted. (+anwig, +rimeice earring, +tali'ah seraweels +1, +taeon body -4% Pet DT)

Fu was a complete push-over and gave me no issues at all.
Kyou was a little more dicey on the first attempt, since En-Curse + Holy or whatever quick magic casts brought the automaton dangerously low. But still managed to clear it, and future attempts went a lot smoother now that I knew what to expect.
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By clearlyamule 2017-10-04 13:08:23
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I've never bothered with stoneskin but ARK III to I is huge like almost having an extra repair huge though should be able to get higher than ARK 1 with different heads and maybe cutting an OF. Also should effect your manajammer situation. Also might effect your maneuver situation. Sounds like you are using earth maneuvers and being able to cap pet pdt without that is a bit of a boon as being able to use a 2nd fire for enmity or 2nd light for more regen... and well everything else is pretty huge (and terms of hp over time yes the 2nd light does more than shock absorber. Though with practice you can only put earth up for when recast timer on stoneskin is up). And occasionally having a free spot to use water against heavy magic attacks or the really weird situations having a thunder for counter is nice

Yes Anwig is 100% worth it on basically anything that does decent amounts of magic/breath dmg.... which is basically anything you'd want any kind of tank for. The getting -4 dt on taeon is often worth it though not always. Along those lines I'd recommend more dt hands. Alluvion skirmish hands can get 4, Old fairy ones can get 5 as can reisin hands, upgrading the ring, and Rimeace earring and of course the Omen one after you beat bosses.

As far as abilities yes getting hit with them with a single non ilvl piece will make a noticeable difference. But

1) you really shouldn't be being hit with that kind of stuff. Part of the appeal of pup tanking is you can literally have the master be on the other side of the zone if you really wanted to while the auto has crazy durability. Don't actually do that though try to stay in chat log range unless you really need to stay farther back (only thing I can think of off the top of my head that you'd want to is thunderbolt and wyrms wing moves).

2) While it does make a difference it's not like you go from fine to dead.

3) Wearing that much less DT actually makes you have to run into range more often.

That said you can swap out occasionally when safe.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2017-10-04 14:10:07
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Asura.Solymr said: »
I was wondering if my current set would be ok for tanking Omen Bosses in a pet setup.

Is this acceptable or do I need to wait until I can get enmity pieces and/or the 1200 gift without being a liability?

I think your gear is generally fine (other that the Anwig swap, as discussed already), and tanking is still doable even lacking the 1200 gift.

For enmity pieces, how useful it is will depend on what you're fighting (Enmity+ is especially helpful if you're dealing with a lot of hate resets) and your own party (if you're doing something with a mage backline, keeping hate is a joke so you shouldn't have any worries even with no enmity gear). Also, specific use cases like how my group does Kyou: we have a main PUP tank and a secondary tank. I let the puppet die to Unfaltering Bravado, re-activate, and use max enmity to get hate back off the sub-tank (in time to die again, yay!).

But, I mean, we didn't even have Heyoka's substantial Enmity+ until a few months ago and PUP tanked fine before that with the minimal Enmity+ gear we had (2 earrings and a pair of boots that most people didn't use). It's more a luxury that lets you deal with some annoyances a little better, and hold up a bit better in setups with melee DD going nuts and inevitably pulling hate. Still nice gear though, and on any "serious" fights I tend to try to manually swap into a max enmity set as I see Strobe/Flashbulb timers are about to be up for a stronger voke/flash - that's assuming hate control is at all relevant for the fight, and that I feel safe swapping out of Pet:DT- gear for that short time.

I also never really bother with Stoneskin (or Earth Maneuvers). For light maneuvers, you need Flashbulb, at least Optical Fiber II (preferably both with 1200JP, but at 100JP I'd drop one OF for more ARK regen), and all the ARKs you can stack - ARK regen is vital for PUP tanking. I tend to just use fire/light maneuvers, defaulting to 2 fire/1 light for more hate (and even opening fights with fire x3 for initial provoke, then switching to light for a flash), and occasionally cycling to 2 light/1 fire if you're feeling like you need more regen. On occasion I'll cycle in a Water for magic defense, or use that as my 3rd maneuver if I ever pop Overdrive for pure tanking/survival purposes. You're doing Soulsoother Head/VE body (for the higher light/water maneuver capacity than VE/VE), right?
 Asura.Fabiano
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By Asura.Fabiano 2017-10-12 14:52:40
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Hey, I'm looking for some advice and feedback on my current Master/Automaton TP set. Special thanks to all the comments from the past couple of pages helpped me come up with this.

ItemSet 353393

My primary use for this set is going to be for Apex CP farming, and just general every day use where I can safely engage alongside my automaton. Currently sitting at 650 JP, so I got a fair ways to go before reaching Master.

The main goal was to cap equipment haste on both the master and automaton (without using Ohtas), and then stack as much additional stats onto the Master as possible.

Foire Taj +3 ended up being an interesting option that I built around, though I am a little sad I lost the Pet:Store TP from tali'ah turban +1, but the Pet:Haste it brought allowed me to achieve my goal without using too many equipment slots. The hefty amount of Accuracy it brings doesn't hurt either.

Foire Taj+3 & Visucius Mantle (with Pet:Haste+10%) & Heyoka Leggings set me at exactly 26% Pet Haste (7+10+9) for only 3 slots. Herculean is augmented with Acc/Triple Attack (and hopefully some Quad Attack if this months dark matter campaign is nice to me...) I also really wanted to fit in Moonbow Belt, instead of using something like klouskap sash or hurch'lan sash since Moonbow Belt is sick!

So yea, any input is appreciated!
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By Asura.Manticore 2017-10-26 07:42:55
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Hi!

So i've been trying out soloing Battlefield fights on Normal and it if I just let the Automaton fight with trusts it times out but goes smoothly and if I fight with the Automaton, it goes well until sub 30% then the boss does something to one shot me.

What's the best way to solo these things?
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By Asura.Psylo 2017-10-26 08:10:05
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Asura.Manticore said: »
So i've been trying out soloing Battlefield fights

Which one ? its a good start before get any tips or advice.
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-10-26 08:45:38
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Asura.Manticore said: »
Hi!

So i've been trying out soloing Battlefield fights on Normal and it if I just let the Automaton fight with trusts it times out but goes smoothly and if I fight with the Automaton, it goes well until sub 30% then the boss does something to one shot me.

What's the best way to solo these things?
What gear do you have/use which frame are you using?
Which attachments also? Do you use food?
How many Job points do you have currently?

Aside from strategy, these questions could lead to the reason you time out.
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By kithaofcerb 2017-10-28 10:13:04
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Hey PUPs!

I was looking through the last few pages and couldn't find an answer, so I guess I'll ask for anyone wondering.

If I'm using Mote's Lua, does anyone have a function/few lines of code to add so I can toggle a Pet WS set on? Or is there a more efficient way to get my Pet's WS gear on before a WS goes off?

Thanks in advance
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By Asura.Psylo 2017-10-28 10:45:29
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kithaofcerb said: »
Hey PUPs!

I was looking through the last few pages and couldn't find an answer, so I guess I'll ask for anyone wondering.

If I'm using Mote's Lua, does anyone have a function/few lines of code to add so I can toggle a Pet WS set on? Or is there a more efficient way to get my Pet's WS gear on before a WS goes off?

Thanks in advance

Nop, pet ws are too fast for GS, the only one solution is to swap manualy in Pet ws gear before your pet get 1K tp.
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By kithaofcerb 2017-10-28 11:04:30
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Asura.Psylo said: »
kithaofcerb said: »
Hey PUPs!

I was looking through the last few pages and couldn't find an answer, so I guess I'll ask for anyone wondering.

If I'm using Mote's Lua, does anyone have a function/few lines of code to add so I can toggle a Pet WS set on? Or is there a more efficient way to get my Pet's WS gear on before a WS goes off?

Thanks in advance

Nop, pet ws are too fast for GS, the only one solution is to swap manualy in Pet ws gear before your pet get 1K tp.

This much I understand, but I can't seem to find a command in Mote's lua that will swap that set on. What are other people using as commands to get their pet gear on?
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By Nariont 2017-10-28 13:58:06
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You dont. Gearswap cannot detect pet ja/wa before its done, you use equipsets and predict when it will happen.
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By clearlyamule 2017-10-28 15:26:10
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Can't you just have it swap idle sets when pettp is >999?
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By Phoenix.Thorbean 2017-10-28 15:51:47
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Use the kiting set, it's a simple toggle on/off and it has highest priority, regardless of being engaged or not. Not like we need a kiting toggle on pup anyway.
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