Tojil Strat!

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Tojil Strat!
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2013-07-25 13:36:02
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He is right. Letting lahar off is a lot less detrimental than volcanic stasis. We've managed to live through 3 consecutive lahars (4th one wiped us due to mages gaining hate) when our schs dc'd through the use of HP sets on DDs. As long as your DDs are quick about switching into HP sets and your WHM are responsive, you have a good chance of living through weakness even without scherzo. Make sure all of your DD that don't have hate back up as well.

Stasis, on the other hand.

We accidentally dropped aura without realizing it and it dispelled 3 of our oatixur MNKs. It was an instant loss due to WHM hate.
 Valefor.Angierus
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By Valefor.Angierus 2013-07-25 13:42:15
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Hp sets are easy to build for MNK while providing a lot of defensiveness.

ItemSet 309122

This ***bogs down my inv but has saved me a handful of times, with mantra gives me just over 1.2k hp while weakened, I've yet to be killed because of Lahar, swap to Avalon and Uk' hat when it starts casting a ga spell.
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 Lakshmi.Feint
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By Lakshmi.Feint 2013-07-25 13:47:59
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Thanks for sharing OP. Awesome post.
 Odin.Boleslaus
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By Odin.Boleslaus 2013-07-25 14:25:40
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My ls has beaten tojil consistently w/o /run was just wondering which is quicker seeing as we haven't tried with /run
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-07-25 14:28:10
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if you're not worried about wiping, definitely don't /run

you're still capping attack with aura up and you lose out on the DA from /war and berserk for turtle when its being dispel happy
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By itchi508 2013-07-26 07:32:13
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How are people dealing with Eft poison Aura? I assume orginized groups that clear Toj are killing eft fast enough to have no issue with poison from eft, and saving embrava for Tojil himself. For a group learning trying to avoid using 2hours but keeping a safe & decent time on kill would you suggjest tossing geo in partys for geo regen on top of Regen V? Since most buffs will be dispelled (cor/brd) rotations will be cycling non stop to keep them up.
Again im speaking from a beginner group. I know that groups that win toj are killing him in 5 min w/o embrava and probably doing rotations constantly. Untill i find strong enough DDs to drop eft in minimal time what is the best way to deal with Aura?
(On pugs i run we drop him in about 9-11 mins atm using embrava)

Thanks!
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By Dantedmc 2013-07-26 07:35:51
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Have the whms abuse curaga to counter poison and the brd / cor spam barspells to lessen the amount of buffs dropped.
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2013-07-27 06:40:55
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Valefor.Angierus said: »
Giving up a DRG for a senbaak DRK seems like a terrible idea.

first angon lasts the full duration of the first 75%, spirit surge lasts for I'm not sure how long because I'm usually not paying attention but I'd wager it's up until about mid 30%, and then angon from the rest, fight goes down in about 6min, bringing MNK/RUN is not worth giving up the added benefit of /WAR you can overcome his atk down aura easily by stacking enough def- debuffs.



Fight last 6 min only happen in 4x Oatixur MNK ally isn't it? Or at least you need super pro rigor MNK. New groups usually don't kill it in 6 min without any oatixur I think.
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2013-07-27 06:48:09
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itchi508 said: »
How are people dealing with Eft poison Aura? I assume orginized groups that clear Toj are killing eft fast enough to have no issue with poison from eft, and saving embrava for Tojil himself. For a group learning trying to avoid using 2hours but keeping a safe & decent time on kill would you suggjest tossing geo in partys for geo regen on top of Regen V? Since most buffs will be dispelled (cor/brd) rotations will be cycling non stop to keep them up.
Again im speaking from a beginner group. I know that groups that win toj are killing him in 5 min w/o embrava and probably doing rotations constantly. Untill i find strong enough DDs to drop eft in minimal time what is the best way to deal with Aura?
(On pugs i run we drop him in about 9-11 mins atm using embrava)

Thanks!


I don't find a problem with eft even if kill speed is low, if DDs poisoned by aura just....cure?

It's really just stun TP move, cure cure cure, DD deal dmg, cure cure cure, BRD COR haste and -na and erase, WHMs cure cure cure ._.
 Ragnarok.Zirael
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By Ragnarok.Zirael 2013-07-27 07:30:04
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itchi508 said: »
How are people dealing with Eft poison Aura? I assume orginized groups that clear Toj are killing eft fast enough to have no issue with poison from eft, and saving embrava for Tojil himself. For a group learning trying to avoid using 2hours but keeping a safe & decent time on kill would you suggjest tossing geo in partys for geo regen on top of Regen V? Since most buffs will be dispelled (cor/brd) rotations will be cycling non stop to keep them up.
Again im speaking from a beginner group. I know that groups that win toj are killing him in 5 min w/o embrava and probably doing rotations constantly. Untill i find strong enough DDs to drop eft in minimal time what is the best way to deal with Aura?
(On pugs i run we drop him in about 9-11 mins atm using embrava)

Thanks!
I'm afraid Indi-Regen isn't the solution for your problem. First and foremost, your DDs need to be good, your WHMs need to be good, your buffers need to be good.
Don't accept MNKs without gear like this (ie. http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/308640), 2-song BRDs, WHMs not using AF3+2 legs/body in cure set (with +50% cure potency, ie. http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/307089), CORs without AF2+2 hat/feet, PLD without Aegis/Ochain, RDM that can't land silence/dispel, SCH without Apajamas II and serious stun set (plus Battlemod is a big bonus).
If someone's gimp, he should not be in your 1-5+ alliance. Tell them to go get better gear and not waste yours and theirs time.
If you can't fill your shout with well geared players, disband and try next day. If your gear/skill is better than people who join you, ask around LSs who are successful in doing the event if they don't need a member to fill in the missing spot, etc.
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-07-27 07:57:00
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It's not necessary, but we burn one Embrava when killing Eft because it's a "failsafe." Without Embrava, it's really a WHM's fight - it's all about Curaga.
 Asura.Kormak
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By Asura.Kormak 2013-08-09 06:09:57
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After seeing the 9man 5NM + Tojil Screenshot from today I can't help thinking there must be something I am missing.

First 5 NM not an issue killed in about 20-30 min (depending on how the pulls are)

But on Tojil itself I think there is something that I am not understanding, so I will run this through see if I have got it right.

For a start, after 5th NM dead everyone gathers in tunnel just before tojil room, kills any adds. Full buff rotation.
COR = Chaos Fighters >>> Hunters Rogues
BRD = March March Atk Atk Atk acc ?
Haste WHM buffs ect.

Currently electing to sack pull to avoid unnecessary aggro at mouth of tunnel, which I am doing on COR for some reason but whatever...
Tojil uses roar, MNK vokes it and takes it to the others who then pop Formless 100fist, RDM dispels the effects from roar SCH/BLM stuns Lahar, GEO magic evasion down on Tojil magic Acc up on mages.( Use angon at this stage?)

If not @74% by time formless 100 fist wears, use Wild Card and repeat if possible? Is that the generally accepted way?

When should Geo use Impact?

@74% Drop formless and more of the same really, keep reapplying buffs when necessary, erase/remove debuffs ect.

Is it worth having the DRG + WAR+ DRK on it during that first stage?(100-74)

Also at 75% 50% and 25% be sure to dispel the defence buffs.
SCH is stunning Lahar and Meteor only, since only 1 SCH with 5s recast.

That about all there is to it?

Now on to the group itself.

DD party 1

DRG - Delve pole and Aug Relic for angon 5/5 merits.
WAR - Ixtab ( need Tomahawk? if so use it at what point)
MNK - Rigor
WHM -
BRD - 3song
COR -

DD Party 2
MNK - Oat
MNK - Oat
MNK - Oat
BRD - 3 song
WHM
COR

Mage Party
SCH/BLM - Stuns + initial Embrava
RDM - Dispel + Silence + Initial Stun to stop effect of roar upon pull.
BRD - 2 Song march +march for SCH
WHM
GEO
Now the last slot I am interested in what are the best options ?

I'm assuming in order SCH/BLM for stuns>>>> I'm not sure... WHM? 2nd GEO? 2nd RDM.. just not sure. But it really shouldn't be significant if it can be cleared with 9 people...I was thinking /random Sack puller but don't want them to have that 1 job and realise all too late they have no clue.


What are the possible things that kill the run?
Lahar multiple times and not getting to 74% before 100 fist wears off + no reset on 100 fist?

I just feel that there really should not be a reason for the above group to be lacking in damage so the answer must be in the strategy employed.

If there are blatant errors it could be that I have not paid full attention, ( eg BRDs decide the songs for themselves I was just guessing) please point them out.

Im fairly tired but I think I covered the main points...

Any feedback or improvements would be welcomed. ( Not change DRG to Upu, trying to work around the jobs / people available)
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-08-09 06:14:39
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You should be able to survive through Lahar without issues, only problem is if it happens repeatedely it will slow down the dps of your dds. Either way if phases are going slow it's a matter of damage itself, especially now that weapons are overpowered there shouldn't be reason not to destroy Tojil granted people have proper gear.
 Lakshmi.Prinnysmash
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By Lakshmi.Prinnysmash 2013-08-09 06:33:55
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Let's see...

If you're only going to bring one Geo it should be indi-focus and geo-frailty.

Get a 2nd sch to stun or a single sch with 2 marches/haste can stun every tp move, that's all they can do though.

Two Mnks in each party so Mantra is always up as a safety net.

Rotate cors to get 4 rolls or at the very least replace hunter's with fighter's.

Rdm should be doing more debuffs(Gravity II) and initial impact, it lasts 3 minutes.

The best use of wildcard is to reset the brds so they can do Nitro songs at the 5 minute mark.
Obviously the DDs should be hit too but songs>DD JA

You have the jest of it, those small changes should help you win consistently.
 Asura.Kormak
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By Asura.Kormak 2013-08-09 06:40:10
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Thanks for the feedback so far, good to know its not too far off.

As for this:
Lakshmi.Prinnysmash said: »
Let's see...

Rotate cors to get 4 rolls or at the very least replace hunter's with fighter's.
We do rotate should have been clearer, Chaos Fighters >>>swap>>> Hunters Rogues.

And to clarify, The rdm should do an initial Impact then Geo does a Second after 3 min?
Once again thanks for the feedback guys.
 Lakshmi.Prinnysmash
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By Lakshmi.Prinnysmash 2013-08-09 06:52:00
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Yup you got it, the rdm should see it wear off and tell your geo, tough to miss 7 debuffs wearing off at the same time.
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By Asura.Aikchan 2013-08-09 08:12:41
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Asura.Kormak said: »

With those DD's using boss weapons you dont need madrigal/hunters rolls at all, +~200 acc/atk than before, and 2x madrigal, hunter's roll, geo-eva = ~150 acc w/o 1hr's so still have near 50acc more even buffed... 90acc than before coz will probably keep using geo -eva.

If using embrava, dont really need 2x March, embrava(500sh enh. haste 25% + Haste 15% = ~40%sh/43% ) if wanna argue about the 3% haste you're missing well use march.

I have done Tojil without bard swaps just cors(atk,da,crit,regain), and the fight went smooth, ~5mins kill, the keys for what I've seen are:

3. Cor's Random Deal and Wild Card, resseting JA's.
2. Having a good stunb... I mean stunner and the geo dont forget about +Macc/-Magic Eva on Mob
1. Good Pull w/o many or any adds at all.

If any DD die, @ pull, might be a wipe and more if its mnk, if the Geo forget to recast Focus the stunner can get some resist, better to save Geo 1h and use it for Macc/Mevadown if think the fight might take some time.

Another thing is.. remember you can sleep tojil, I've done it as brd by mistake sleeping adds with horde (might need troubadour, or current ilvl gear w/ lot Macc)
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By Asura.Calatilla 2013-08-09 08:23:29
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Is it even possible to stun Calcifying Mist and Tensudo Stomp without spellcast doing it for you? Even if you hit stun as soon as the the mob readies the tp move it still gets off a majority of the time.
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By Asura.Kormak 2013-08-09 08:39:10
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Asura.Aikchan said: »

I have done Tojil without bard swaps just cors(atk,da,crit,regain), and the fight went smooth, ~5mins kill,
How many songs on the DD party BRD's?

Asura.Aikchan said: »
1. Good Pull w/o many or any adds at all. - Sack pull so /check
________________↓ /check
2. Having a good stunb... I mean stunner and the geo dont forget about +Macc/-Magic Eva on Mob

3.Cor's Random Deal and Wild Card, resseting JA's.
Had issues with Wild Card from both COR's not resetting 2 hour. Hopefully double relic hands will now solve this.


Thanks a lot again for the feedback. Will be sure to finally kill it tonight!
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By Shiva.Siral 2013-08-09 08:54:22
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Asura.Calatilla said: »
Is it even possible to stun Calcifying Mist and Tensudo Stomp without spellcast doing it for you? Even if you hit stun as soon as the the mob readies the tp move it still gets off a majority of the time.

I'm able to stun Calcifying and Tensudo with no problem. I actually prefer seeing Tensudo because every other tp move seems impossible to stun on kurma. I use Battlemod though which makes things appear in chat without lag. Haven't tried without, so not sure if that's the difference.

Edit: Also I'm usually using Alacrity on Kurma/Tutewehiwehi because alternating stuns with another SCH gives us plenty of strategems.
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By Asura.Calatilla 2013-08-09 09:24:52
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We use 2 sch`s also, with alacrity alternating stuns, but if I hit stun as soon as I see "x mob readies tp move" all is get is "x mob is stunned > mob uses tp move > x mob is no longer stunned" Only way around it is to stun the move before it appears in the chat log.

If the moves are impossible to stun without the use of a 3rd pt program SE needs to re-evaluate their stance on the use of 3rd pt programs.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-08-09 09:30:00
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Well they don't want stuns to be a primary strategy, rather something to use only on occasions...so they're fine with unstunnable moves(legit).
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By Asura.Aikchan 2013-08-09 15:30:01
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Asura.Kormak said: »
Asura.Aikchan said: »

I have done Tojil without bard swaps just cors(atk,da,crit,regain), and the fight went smooth, ~5mins kill,
How many songs on the DD party BRD's?

Asura.Aikchan said: »
1. Good Pull w/o many or any adds at all. - Sack pull so /check
________________↓ /check
2. Having a good stunb... I mean stunner and the geo dont forget about +Macc/-Magic Eva on Mob

3.Cor's Random Deal and Wild Card, resseting JA's.
Had issues with Wild Card from both COR's not resetting 2 hour. Hopefully double relic hands will now solve this.


Thanks a lot again for the feedback. Will be sure to finally kill it tonight!

3songs each bard, 3x minuets, if the and when the embrava wear off, 2x marchs 1x minuet

and the 2hr resetting is not the winning key, is more JA's reset for mnks impetus fulltime increase dmg alot, reseting angon too, but yea having mnks hundred fist help in the last 25%.

about the sack pull be careful, unless is a pld, coz tojil can stop to cast something, the sacker die, and all the adds will link w/ tojil(if the sacker is not the rdm that will silence him)
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By Bismarck.Helel 2013-08-09 15:44:02
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If you have the option of swapping BRDs, why would you not do it? Otherwise, why not just use 1 BRD if your DDs are only getting 3 songs regardless? Seems like a waste of space.
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By Tickmeoff 2013-08-10 20:40:44
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Is it expected that Hundred Fists + Formless Strikes blows through the entire first 25% of Tojil's HP? Our shell did a couple runs today and this is the first time we've actually reached Tojil, but I don't think our monks managed to take more than 10% of his HP before HF wore off. We ended up timing out/wiping with Tojil around 79% both runs.
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By Asura.Yomisha 2013-08-10 20:46:14
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Maybe not the entire first 25%, but it should have turned out better than that. Have to factor everything in though. Buffs, gear, were they all sure they used FS, etcetc.
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By Asura.Blackmagus 2013-08-10 21:03:35
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Asura.Calatilla said: »
Is it even possible to stun Calcifying Mist and Tensudo Stomp without spellcast doing it for you? Even if you hit stun as soon as the the mob readies the tp move it still gets off a majority of the time.
That sounds like a problem on your side, It's stunnable with no problem pushing a macro. And using a stun bot, is pretty much like pushing the button for you so it's the same thing.
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By Leviathan.Kidnoftle 2013-08-14 14:38:40
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10%~ when hf wears isn't awful. You're only problem in the first 25% is if lahar gets off and your formless wears before the 74% mark.
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By Yandaime 2013-09-18 04:22:50
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Anyone know exactly how strong Tojil's Attack down Aura is? We have no problems with Tojil or anything like that, just curious for spreadsheet purposes. I tried to check last night but I got hit with a Warcry from one of the MNKs right before Cloak so results are skewed.

Was at 1426 after songs and rolls, wanted to hold off on using Berserk til after I checked the After-Attack but I got hit by Warcry from someone, dunno if it was the WAR or one other MNKs putting my attack to 16-something :( Couldn't take a careful look due to needing to fight. After Aura, attack was 1007. So the aura is looking like Attack -30~37.5% (maybe Attack -40%?)

If anyone knows for sure, I'd appreciate it. I tried looking for the answer but all it says on BGwiki is "Powerful Attack Down" lol
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