Tojil Strat!

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Tojil Strat!
 Fenrir.Motenten
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By Fenrir.Motenten 2013-07-03 03:40:13
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Assuming you're using 2 schs, whichever sch missed the stun on Barolithic Shell should immediately start dispelling as well. You can get 2-3 Dispels in before your next stun rotation is up, usually. Along with brds and rdm, all of the buffs should be gone pretty quick.

Sch's don't need Embrava or Marches, though those certainly make stunning a lot more convenient. Alacrity along with simple Haste is enough to keep up with moves, between two sch's. Pyroclastic Surge isn't any big deal, and Tyrranical Blow shouldn't be too bad, but anything else should definitely be stunned.

Peiste: Don't stun everything. Focus everything on stunning Calcifying Mist. Since it can use another TP move immediately after being stunned, there's a chance of multiple Calcifying Mists being used in a row. Stunners need to be ready for that. Divine Caress+Accession+Paralyna after Torpefying Charge, and the rest should be trivial damage that you can cover with curagas.

Kurma: It's almost impossible to stun Harden Shell, and impossible (outside random luck) to stun Tortoise Song, so stunners can just free stun after any given move to give an extra couple seconds to the whm for healing. Don't think you want to actually stun most the moves, since they increase the damage of the DDs. Stun Tetsudo Tremor, of course.


It always seems to me that if anything's going to go wrong, it's going to happen in the first 10-20 seconds. Perhaps the whms were in a curaga mindset, and in the initial pull one DD took a lot of damage before being positioned with everyone else, so they go down to an AOE. Sleepga or Breakga happening as it runs in can also be a problem, as is any major TP move that happens before it gets into range of the stunners (one stunner should be up near the melee during the initial pull to catch stuff like that).

I'm still not sure what exactly happens in those first few seconds in the runs I've been on, and certainly can't give any insight on yours, but that's where you need to be most watchful, and spend most your time trying to fix any mistakes. Mistakes later in the fight are usually fallout from mistakes earlier on, so there's less value in criticizing errors there.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-07-03 03:45:53
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Batholithic Shell, Incinerating Lahar, and Volcanic Stasis are the only ones that need to be stunned on Tojil. Stasis is only used if you remove the aura. Meteor and Kaustra too, but you can probably get away with letting Kaustra through, it's not as bad as you'd think considering it's single target. Can stun Blistering Roar if you really want to.
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By Ravenn42 2013-07-03 08:14:20
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Ok so what I gather from your help which is so much appreciated is that the DD need to turn on spikes if it is up... and we need a lot more dispel going on. I assume that only the Rdm was doing dispel and from what you all said.that wont cut it do to all the buffs.

I also watched a few videos where there was someone holding tojil while they buffed... is that recommend or is it better to buff pull and charge in?
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By Fenrir.Sigfreid 2013-07-03 08:18:30
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Ravenn42 said: »
I also watched a few videos where there was someone holding tojil while they buffed... is that recommend or is it better to buff pull and charge in?
If you hold it while buffing, then you are cutting down on the wasted buff duration that you would of had while waiting for the pull.
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By Ravenn42 2013-07-03 08:29:14
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Fenrir.Sigfreid said: »
Ravenn42 said: »
I also watched a few videos where there was someone holding tojil while they buffed... is that recommend or is it better to buff pull and charge in?
If you hold it while buffing, then you are cutting down on the wasted buff duration that you would of had while waiting for the pull.

Would it be like other NMs just super tank with a pld while we buff?
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By Shiva.Paulu 2013-07-03 09:26:30
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For Kurma it's worth mentioning it will not use Tortoise song if all people within range (20 yalms) do not have a song or roll on. It's a good way to build the damage multipliers up.
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By Valefor.Angierus 2013-07-03 09:35:59
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My LS has debunked that one, tried fighting it without songs on melee and all mages 20.1 away still would do song with no effect on everyone, all it did was increase the time it took to kill it.
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By Shiva.Paulu 2013-07-03 09:40:03
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You must of had someone with a song or roll within dispelling range. Remember he is a large mob so the distance plugin may not be 100% on point.
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By Fenrir.Sigfreid 2013-07-03 09:45:26
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I thought it usually said if it removed a buff (and how many) from someone via the chat log.
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By Valefor.Angierus 2013-07-03 09:45:45
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I would have seen in my logs if the effect would have been dispelled :/ I don't filter anything and it's easy to tab open and look at the logs and see no effect on everyone, it would stand out if 4 effects were removed from a WHM or a BRD that would be too close.
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By Valefor.Tiniky 2013-07-03 09:50:51
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How do you guys WS on raptor? Do people usually call out a time? Or do they do it every 5 minutes on the vana clock? My LS just forbids any non monk to WS. Usually raptor takes a pretty long time because of this.

We unfortunately do not have the perfect setup, but we try to make do (usually have DRKs and SAMs too).
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-07-03 10:00:20
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Most groups I've seen just have the other 2 DD's (usually DRG and either DRK/WAR/SAM) either not WS or they pair them off with another DD. Timing it by the vana clock is a cool idea, but you can't see it while engaged.
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-07-03 10:03:38
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MNK use Shijin, DRG uses Penta, DRK holds mata if it's around, or doesn't WS at all

But if your raptors are taking more than 2-3 minutes, you need to check the accuracy of your DD and insure that songs/rolls/luopons are applied. It's easily the fastest kill in the zone.
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By Odin.Boleslaus 2013-07-03 10:09:56
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so what the deal with the en-spells i havent seen anything on it
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-07-03 10:25:08
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So far as anyone can gather with any degree of certainty, one MNK using wind runes for the first 25% of Tojil removes his aura until such a time that he reapplies it. Nothing further is defined
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By Bismarck.Squah 2013-07-03 10:40:29
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People actually hold WS on Raptor? Our MNKs spam spiral, DRK uses resolution and our DRG has a mythic with Drakes. With Mantra up it is absolutely not going to kill anyone before a stun or cure goes off.
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By Ravenn42 2013-07-03 10:40:58
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On tojil can someone explain how the pull works? I mean we sac pull and just start right away. I have seen videos where they hold them and buff just try8ng to find the right way.
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By Cerberus.Taint 2013-07-03 10:42:52
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Ravenn42 said: »
On tojil can someone explain how the pull works? I mean we sac pull and just start right away. I have seen videos where they hold them and buff just try8ng to find the right way.


Our PLD just holds him near the alliance until buffs are up. Twilight sacking works just fine if there are too many adds.
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By Cerberus.Taint 2013-07-03 10:47:20
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Bismarck.Squah said: »
People actually hold WS on Raptor? Our MNKs spam spiral, DRK uses resolution and our DRG has a mythic with Drakes. With Mantra up it is absolutely not going to kill anyone before a stun or cure goes off.


He dies in 3min. But we do the same thing as above. MNKs use SS, DRG uses Penta and our DRK just SEs and TPs. Even if the DRK WSing shaved a minute off (it doesn't) it wouldn't matter over the course of a run.
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 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-07-03 10:50:06
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A boosted raptor can absolutely kill someone at full HP. It may not be a common occurrence, but it happens, and you're not shaving off enough of your time with Resolution to warrant that risk
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By Leviathan.Syagin 2013-07-03 11:02:58
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
THe enspell breakthrough has literally just been made a couple of hours ago, no one's keeping any secrets. It's on a public forum. We don't know how exactly it works yet either. My LS just spams dispel on Kurma to drop its DEF boost and it ends up dying within 5~6 mins. Maybe get better DDs
Video proof or it doesn't exsist!!
By Quetzacoatl 2013-07-03 11:39:39
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Leviathan.Syagin said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
THe enspell breakthrough has literally just been made a couple of hours ago, no one's keeping any secrets. It's on a public forum. We don't know how exactly it works yet either. My LS just spams dispel on Kurma to drop its DEF boost and it ends up dying within 5~6 mins. Maybe get better DDs
Video proof or it doesn't exsist!!
Just go do it and see for yourself :x
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By Valefor.Angierus 2013-07-03 12:03:00
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Leviathan.Syagin said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
THe enspell breakthrough has literally just been made a couple of hours ago, no one's keeping any secrets. It's on a public forum. We don't know how exactly it works yet either. My LS just spams dispel on Kurma to drop its DEF boost and it ends up dying within 5~6 mins. Maybe get better DDs
Video proof or it doesn't exsist!!


RDM/SCH have the SCH stunning put up voidstorm on them and have the RDM use klimaform, I've yet to see the RDM get resisted on a dispel ever since changing to doing that, our theory on Kurma is.

If it uses harden shell, its PDT-% ticks slowly until either the next harden shell is used where it would spike to its cap that it would have to tick to, if you dispel it, it increases the amount of damage it takes above what it was original set to.

Some minor evidence to support this;
Code
[22:03:22]Kurma readies Harden Shell.
[22:03:22]Kurma scores a critical hit!
[22:03:22]Angierus takes 527 points of damage.
[22:03:22]Yubyilabyi starts casting Indi-Focus on Yubyilabyi.
[22:03:22]Flox casts Valor Minuet V.
[22:03:22]Flox gains the effect of Minuet.
[22:03:22]Blizz gains the effect of Minuet.
[22:03:22]Dreyton gains the effect of Minuet.
[22:03:22]Logic gains the effect of Minuet.
[22:03:23]Angierus gains the effect of Minuet.
[22:03:23]Angierus hits Kurma for 60 points of damage.
[22:03:23]Baldas starts casting Haste on Prothescar.
[22:03:24]Angierus hits Kurma for 65 points of damage.
[22:03:24]Mishta starts casting Erase on Logic.
[22:03:24]Kurma hits Angierus for 399 points of damage.
[22:03:24]Angierus hits Kurma for 94 points of damage.
[22:03:24]Tinkil starts casting Valor Minuet V on Tinkil.
[22:03:24]Lohn starts casting Cure IV on Predetor.
[22:03:25]Angierus uses Boost.
[22:03:25]Angierus's attacks are enhanced.
[22:03:25]Soufflefeu readies Healing Breath IV.
[22:03:25]Angierus readies Shijin Spiral.
[22:03:25]Lohn casts Cure IV.
[22:03:25]Predetor recovers 886 HP.
[22:03:25]Predetor uses Restoring Breath.
[22:03:25]Angierus scores a critical hit!
[22:03:25]Kurma takes 69 points of damage.
[22:03:25]Mishta casts Erase.
[22:03:25]Logic's Defense Down effect disappears!
[22:03:26]Kurma uses Harden Shell.
[22:03:26]Kurma gains the effect of Defense Boost.
[22:03:26]Angierus does not have enough TP.
[22:03:27]Unable to use weapon skill.
[22:03:27]Angierus hits Kurma for 118 points of damage.
[22:03:27]Angierus hits Kurma for 92 points of damage.
[22:03:27]Angierus hits Kurma for 123 points of damage.
[22:03:27]Kurma readies Head Butt.
[22:03:28]Jigalo uses Boost.
[22:03:28]Jigalo's attacks are enhanced.
[22:03:28]Angierus uses Shijin Spiral.
[22:03:28]Kurma takes 840 points of damage.
[22:03:28]Lohn starts casting Erase on Predetor.
[22:03:28]Prothescar readies Shijin Spiral.
[22:03:29]Dawnya starts casting Indi-Frailty on Dawnya.
[22:03:29]Baldas casts Haste.
[22:03:29]Prothescar gains the effect of Haste.
[22:03:30]Lohn casts Erase.
[22:03:30]Predetor's Accuracy Down effect disappears!
[22:03:30]Jigalo readies Shijin Spiral.
[22:03:30]Mishta starts casting Cure V on Angierus.
[22:03:30]Soufflefeu uses Healing Breath IV.
[22:03:30]Predetor recovers 0 HP.
[22:03:30]Angierus hits Kurma for 130 points of damage.
[22:03:30]Dreyton uses Third Eye.
[22:03:31]Kurma readies Testudo Tremor.
[22:03:31]Slong starts casting Dispel on Kurma.
[22:03:31]Angierus hits Kurma for 130 points of damage.
[22:03:31]Skillchain: Light.
[22:03:31]Kurma takes 376 points of damage.
[22:03:31]Starscreamx starts casting Stun on Kurma.
[22:03:31]Starscreamx uses Sublimation.
[22:03:32]Angierus hits Kurma for 142 points of damage.
[22:03:32]Dreyton readies Resolution.
[22:03:32]Tinkil casts Valor Minuet V.
[22:03:32]Tinkil gains the effect of Minuet.
[22:03:32]Angierus hits Kurma for 144 points of damage.
[22:03:32]Baldas gains the effect of Minuet.
[22:03:32]Predetor gains the effect of Minuet.
[22:03:32]Prothescar gains the effect of Minuet.
[22:03:32]Angierus hits Kurma for 93 points of damage.
[22:03:33]Angierus hits Kurma for 128 points of damage.
[22:03:33]Predetor readies Drakesbane.
[22:03:33]Soufflefeu readies Gust Breath.
[22:03:33]Angierus hits Kurma for 140 points of damage.
[22:03:33]Jigalo gains the effect of Minuet.
[22:03:33]Angierus hits Kurma for 116 points of damage.
[22:03:34]Logic readies Shijin Spiral.
[22:03:35]Angierus hits Kurma for 148 points of damage.
[22:03:35]Angierus hits Kurma for 156 points of damage.
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 Valefor.Tiniky
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By Valefor.Tiniky 2013-07-03 12:39:57
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What rolls do the CORs usually do? What if they don't swap? What if they do swap?


I'd think: Hunter's, Chaos, Fighter's, Tactician for swapping

Hunter's / Chaos for not swapping. Could be wrong though..

Our LS uses Hunter's / Fighter's for NMs, and we don't swap COR (we also usually fail to kill the NMs >_<)


Also, if we only have non GHORN / Dura bards, what songs would you guys suggest for both NMs and Boss mobs?
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-07-03 12:43:43
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Chaos/Hunter's(in that order) when not swapping, Chaos/Hunter's/Fighter's/Rogue's when swapping

Edit: Didn't see the song question

In order of priority: March/March/Madrigal/Madrigal/Minuet/Minuet/Minuet/Minuet

Cut songs from left to right right to left in accordance with available DDB BRDs. If you wanted to be perfectly optimal, minuets should take precedent over madrigals on a few fights, but I wouldn't complicate things for a job that most people are quite proficient in messing up

Edit2: I can't directions
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 Valefor.Angierus
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By Valefor.Angierus 2013-07-03 12:59:12
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Valefor.Tiniky said: »
What rolls do the CORs usually do? What if they don't swap? What if they do swap?

Swapping on boss is critical, we do Hunters and Chaos on first two rolls, second set of rolls is Figher's and Rouge's, we keep the swapped CORs in PT, and when Hunters falls they just start reapplying how they would if they were in their original parties.

For everything but the boss, we don't bother because ***dies within 3-4 minutes of pull that I don't think there would be much of a difference if we had rouges and fighters on.

If you don't have 8 songs I wouldn't even bother attempting the boss, you could get away with 6 but with just 4 you are not even gaining enough benefit, that'd leave you with March, March, Madrigal Madrigal, no attack buffs leaves you hurting badly.
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-07-03 13:04:37
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If I had to wait for 8 songs to be available all the time I don't think I'd be playing FFXI.
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2013-07-03 13:06:54
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I would very much love to do this fight, but couldn't trust a PUG for it. Plasm is slow going at the moment, because if I join someone elses PUG, we get 4-5.5k, whereas if I set one up (and after millions of years of yelling for the right people) we will end up with 6-8k unless something goes wrong.

If anyone needs a DRK on Cerberus for these runs, I would love to come along. I have Bereaver 15, and a nice dark magic set and constantly upgrading Mikinaak at the moment.

I have even considered making a brand new LS just to spam Tojil and the others, but if anyone could fit me in somewhere, I would be really grateful.
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By Leviathan.Draylo 2013-07-03 13:07:18
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If you're doing Morimar NMs, it isn't really necessary to swap COR during Eft or Kurma.
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By Valefor.Tiniky 2013-07-03 13:09:58
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Valefor.Angierus said: »
Valefor.Tiniky said: »
What rolls do the CORs usually do? What if they don't swap? What if they do swap?

Swapping on boss is critical, we do Hunters and Chaos on first two rolls, second set of rolls is Figher's and Rouge's, we keep the swapped CORs in PT, and when Hunters falls they just start reapplying how they would if they were in their original parties.

For everything but the boss, we don't bother because ***dies within 3-4 minutes of pull that I don't think there would be much of a difference if we had rouges and fighters on.

If you don't have 8 songs I wouldn't even bother attempting the boss, you could get away with 6 but with just 4 you are not even gaining enough benefit, that'd leave you with March, March, Madrigal Madrigal, no attack buffs leaves you hurting badly.


I guess my LS will have a full time job on getting those bards their DDB! SP2 is about to be released soon, which means they will be getting one free song every 1 hour, that will help the 3 song DDBs out!

I suppose you don't bother swapping bards during normal NMs either. 4 songs / bard would be so nice.. Such an OP item..
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