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My thoughts
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1292
By Asura.Yunalaysca 2010-12-19 04:48:06
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Spamming provoke on pld/war for 75 lvs doesn't teach you shout about tanking on pld/nin, either. What's your point?
When you get max level you'll learn the things you need for max level. Most of the ***you learn along the way isn't even applied anymore in most cases. learn along the way being a job ability or player "skill"?
Server: Sylph
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-12-19 04:48:17
And before someone says "oh you shouldn't need to research" how many of you did missions and quests without using wiki, allah, a forum, or even asking a friend on how to do it? I'd say maybe 1% of the game's population, if that.
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By Artemicion 2010-12-19 04:49:09
I kinda enjoy my old-man syndrome from the old days.
I remember when RNG was perhaps the most powerful job in the game.
I remember pre-TP nerf days.
I remember when Maat was actually rather difficult.
I remember when wearing full AF meant you were *** awesome.
The sense of adventure and progression over time is long since gone since the days of astral burns and Abyssea, but alas, that ultimately comes down to your choice and attitude. But it sure as hell aint easy with the general population having their nose on the grindstone for one aspect of the game.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-19 04:49:23
I know you enjoy the game, but you have to admit it's more stagnant than it used to be?
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 Ragnarok.Zanno
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Posts: 1393
By Ragnarok.Zanno 2010-12-19 04:49:25
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: How the hell are they going to know about the things we did when we lv 5 years ago, if no one tells them?
By researching it?
When people quit the game, the data and all their progress doesn't magically disappear.
Quote: Dont you find it even the slightest bit sad that some people have AF 3+2 gear but have no idea where gusgen mines is?
Do you find it sad that we're not made to use a slide rule before learning how to use a calculator?
Quote: But I guess some people, like me, played the game because they truely enjoyed it, while others just played it to get to be the first to get x level, or be the first to get x gear, grow their epeen an inch by doing 0.00002% more damage than that n00b over there.
I enjoy the game just fine, tyvm. Again, I don't even think either of you are listening to what I'm saying. Anyone who WANTS to do that stuff can. I'm simply saying it's not required, where you two are heavily implying that it is.
I haven't said you need to grind levels to learn a job.
I said that by having abyssea 30+ a lot of people (who aren't you) are missing out on big chunks of the game.
Sure no one is telling them they can't do that stuff, but who would they do it with when everyone's in abyssea?
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By Siren.Kalilla 2010-12-19 04:49:29
The knowledge you learn leveling from 1-89 contributes to the knowledge you learn and replace at 90 and doing level 90 activities. Abyssea does not provide that knowledge. Otherwise your learning the skills while trying to figure out how to play the game in the first place.
A good player doesn't need to go through the the grinding process necessarily as long as their experiences, knowledge learned, and "skill" already contribute to that job. They can still become a good player at that job. I'll agree with you on that~
But there is such a difference between all the jobs in the game that I can't agree with you on it entirely on every job. Its just a difference in opinion.
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Server: Sylph
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-12-19 04:49:48
Asura.Yunalaysca said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Spamming provoke on pld/war for 75 lvs doesn't teach you shout about tanking on pld/nin, either. What's your point?
When you get max level you'll learn the things you need for max level. Most of the ***you learn along the way isn't even applied anymore in most cases. learn along the way being a job ability or player "skill"? Either or. You don't operate in the same fashion in lower levels as you do in higher levels. Learning to gear? Defense is actually worth a *** at lower levels, hence turtle plds. Care to try that on a high end NM. Doesn't work at all, etc.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2010-12-19 04:51:03
Artemicion said: I remember when wearing full AF meant you were *** awesome.
or RSE lol
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Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-12-19 04:51:17
Quote: Sure no one is telling them they can't do that stuff, but who would they do it with when everyone's in abyssea?
The people who want to.
I've done plenty of things that I've wanted to that wasn't considered popular or what others wanted to do.
If you want to do something, do it. If not, don't.
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Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-19 04:52:22
Asura.Bartimaeus said: I think some people look at xi through magical rose-colored glasses of ye old "twas a hard game". If Abyssea made it boring for you, you were probably bored anyway, or getting there. I'm not implying Abyssea is super duper hard tho.. I dunno.
Maybe when you change the reasons you play it from the reasons you originally liked it for, it makes the game lose it's magic. Yeah, Sky doesn't have a point when you've been rocking it for years. Why would it. You went and did everything, now you're upset there's not MOAR. The game will get smaller, if you try to "get everything", which seems like the point of a game to me.
Seems so weird..
Boring is the wrong term, I think stagnant is better. Abyssea is so small and so samey it just feels like everything is the same.
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By Artemicion 2010-12-19 04:53:03
I haven't even purchased abyssea yet, however, I am kind of excited about essentially turning our guys into super heros with all these boosts, atmas and whatnot. FFXI before hand used to be a relatively slow paced game emphasizing greatly on team work and patience (especially with JPs). Abyssea flipped that on it's back, but at the same time doomed the game into being stuck in one corner/aspect.
If they could apply similar concepts and rules in old-school zones and still making it low level friendly, I can see FFXI gaining a much more wide-spread target audience and player base coming in despite being nearly 9 years old.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2010-12-19 04:54:00
Shiva.Flionheart said: Boring is the wrong term, I think stagnant is better. Abyssea is so small and so samey it just feels like everything is the same.
Everything has the same colors >.> its annoying. Even though all the areas are completely different...
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Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-19 04:55:17
Siren.Kalilla said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Boring is the wrong term, I think stagnant is better. Abyssea is so small and so samey it just feels like everything is the same.
Everything has the same colors >.> its annoying. Even though all the areas are completely different...
If you're reskinning areas at all, something is horribly wrong. It's part of the reason I felt cheapened by WotG, but that had a buttload of content and at least some original areas.
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By Siren.Kalilla 2010-12-19 04:56:20
PS2 limitat...wait wrong thread >.>;
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By Siren.Kalilla 2010-12-19 04:58:06
And I didn't mind WoTG that much, I always wanted to know that part of the story and was an cool way to experience it. Of course they are going to use the old areas but I liked how the world was shaped then, a lot of areas weren't even areas you know. And some of the areas back then aren't areas now or were renamed. I just love history i guess.
By Artemicion 2010-12-19 04:58:53
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Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-12-19 04:59:27
Siren.Kalilla said: And I didn't mind WoTG that much, I always wanted to know that part of the story and was an cool way to experience it. Of course they are going to use the old areas but I liked how the world was shaped then, a lot of areas weren't even areas you know. And some of the areas back then aren't areas now or were renamed. I just love history i guess.
That's why I wasn't too bad with WotG, at the end of the day it had relevance.
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By Asura.Yunalaysca 2010-12-19 05:00:54
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Asura.Yunalaysca said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Spamming provoke on pld/war for 75 lvs doesn't teach you shout about tanking on pld/nin, either. What's your point?
When you get max level you'll learn the things you need for max level. Most of the ***you learn along the way isn't even applied anymore in most cases. learn along the way being a job ability or player "skill"? Either or. You don't operate in the same fashion in lower levels as you do in higher levels. Learning to gear? Defense is actually worth a *** at lower levels, hence turtle plds. Care to try that on a high end NM. Doesn't work at all, etc. no you dont operate the same way, you kinda evolve from it. with the duration of fights lately you can generally get away with auto-attacking mobs to death, spam cure 4, make a /p macro that says gtfoverhere from protect and shell, flash a mob to get hate etc etc etc. but the people that have better "skill" are those that have had face time with each and every single skill otw to 90 and how it directly affects the out come. people are followers, they see what people use often and they try to mimic it, same goes for how you gear. eventually you will have nothing but new people left that mimic'd older people but have new people mimic them and ask them questions and they dont know how to *** answer it, because in more cases than not: people mimic more than they research.
By Artemicion 2010-12-19 05:00:57
Asura.Bartimaeus said: I have no idea what most of the story lines are. {Hundred Fists} {Enter Key}.
Someday I'll go back and read them..
Goblin Footprint and City Bards!
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By Siren.Kalilla 2010-12-19 05:01:53
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By Asura.Yunalaysca 2010-12-19 05:02:54
Asura.Bartimaeus said: I have no idea what most of the story lines are. {Hundred Fists} {Enter Key}.
Someday I'll go back and read them.. hahaha i did that with the abyssea storylines and NPCs
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By Ragnarok.Zanno 2010-12-19 05:03:22
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: Sure no one is telling them they can't do that stuff, but who would they do it with when everyone's in abyssea?
The people who want to.
I've done plenty of things that I've wanted to that wasn't considered popular or what others wanted to do.
If you want to do something, do it. If not, don't.
I don't know if my points are totally passing over your head, or if you just enjoy arguing.
Either way it's a lost cause. Just because this game turned out to be better for you, doesn't mean it turned out to a better game.
You seem to assume that new players even know what options they have.
Even if they went to wiki and did research, it's far from the same.
Go to wiki and read about some long annoying quest, and it might not be very apealing compared to 100k exp per hr.
Remove the option to get 100 k exp per hour (for someone around lv 50ish), and the quest might be apealing to them. After they've finally finished the quest, got their reward they might even feel that they've accomplished something. And who know, maybe actually doing the quest was a hell of a lot more fun than reading about it on wiki. And who knows, maybe they learned something new (that doesnt nessesary makes them better at their job). Even if they just had to visit a new zone or 2 (that they simply just found pretty) that they didnt know existed, or would have never visited unless they did that quest, it would have been a good thing.
Server: Sylph
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-12-19 05:03:23
Quote: people mimic more than they research.
Again, the shitty players, lol
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Server: Asura
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By Asura.Yunalaysca 2010-12-19 05:04:21
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: people mimic more than they research.
Again, the shitty players, lol if you give people to take the easy route, they will take it. there is no "forcing" to learn anymore is what i was getting at.
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Yunalaysca 2010-12-19 05:05:32
Ragnarok.Zanno said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: Sure no one is telling them they can't do that stuff, but who would they do it with when everyone's in abyssea?
The people who want to.
I've done plenty of things that I've wanted to that wasn't considered popular or what others wanted to do.
If you want to do something, do it. If not, don't.
I don't know if my points are totally passing over your head, or if you just enjoy arguing.
Either way it's a lost cause. Just because this game turned out to be better for you, doesn't mean it turned out to a better game.
You seem to assume that new players even know what options they have.
Even if they went to wiki and did research, it's far from the same.
Go to wiki and read about some long annoying quest, and it might not be very apealing compared to 100k exp per hr.
Remove the option to get 100 k exp per hour (for someone around lv 50ish), and the quest might be apealing to them. After they've finally finished the quest, got their reward they might even feel that they've accomplished something. And who know, maybe actually doing the quest was a hell of a lot more fun than reading about it on wiki. And who knows, maybe they learned something new (that doesnt nessesary makes them better at their job). Even if they just had to visit a new zone or 2 (that they simply just found pretty) that they didnt know existed, or would have never visited unless they did that quest, it would have been a good thing.
wiki is wrong 50% of the time anyways, im constantly having to have it get corrected.
Ragnarok.Zanno
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By Ragnarok.Zanno 2010-12-19 05:05:38
Server: Sylph
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-12-19 05:06:12
The good players will take the initiative. Nobody should have to be forced.
Teachers just grade your tests in college. They don't force you to do daily assignments or homework. You take the initiative and do it to prep for the test and don't fail
Do your research here, take the initiative and don't fail.
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Some things have been going through my mind lately about FFXI. Back when I started playing leveling was an adventure, as much as a pain in my ass. Okay, 10% adventure 90% a pain in my ass. Still, actually hitting level 75 meant something to me back then. Leveling was rough before Aht Urhgan (not so much Lumoria (sea) if you were one of those people that had it before Aht Urhgan and actually leveled there). I'm talking about the days when you got 75 in Tu'Lia (sky) killing Aura Statues maybe pulling off 5k exp an hour, maybe! And then getting your ass handed to you when Ullikummi popped, or being forced to level on Aura Weapons and Decorative Weapons when there were Linkshells/botters/hackers/gil sellers abusing the area around Ullikummi at a much slower pace than 5k exp an hour.
Being able to use a ring to give you extra exp per kill, being able to level with people level 10 or 30 when your level 60 through level sync. Everyone of these examples, and more unmentioned because I don't want to think of all the ways you can make EXP stupidly (before abyssea), are ways SE have given into our demands to be lazy and get what we want easier demeaning the work that others have done in the past to get what you want right now even if you don't truly deserve it.
Even considering you could get 1200 exp in a chest back then was crazy, let alone getting 100,000 exp in 30-60 minutes by killing a handful of mobs and building "lights".
All of us are being spoiled by Abyssea, no matter how you look at it. The game is so unbalanced at the moment. Why would anyone spend 5 hours doing 5k-10k an hour when you could do Abyssea. The fact you can level with 18 people and not have EXP penalties is ridiculous. Whats more ridiculous is 99% of the FFXI community are in Abyssea or AFK in Jeuno/Whitegate.
But Abyssea has given us the opportunity to level jobs we once wished we had but didn't have the time/motivation to do so because it could take months just to get the levels for the job. I have leveled jobs in Abyssea, but who wouldn't given the opportunity to through a buy-able expansion...
Honestly, SE needs to make the minimum level required to enter Abyssea level 75 since it came out when the level cap was raised after 9 years. No one is learning shit about their jobs leveling it from 30-90 in a few hours. SE slapped all its loyal players in the face for making the minimum level so low. All their hard work that they put in leveling for months, and seeking for hours and hours and hours..., because they wanted to be that job, means nothing now. Forget about armor, its always been replaced slowly update after update. It's the time we spent into leveling that really bothers me. Square-Enix make the required level to enter Abyssea level 75.
I miss when a Maats cap actually was an awesome achievement.
I'd be surprised if any of the players who started when Abyssea came out actually has a map of crawlers nest, or knows what a stone monument is. Or has leveled a craft, fished, leveled in any place other than Abyssea past level 30... has walked up to the throne room or has done dynamis. Hell, if they even have any of the CoP missions done.
There was an important progression leveling up to 75. You got to experience so much of the game, so many zones. Done so many activities and met so many people. The people, seriously. Anyone who has leveled before level sync knows this, that when you leveled you leveled with the same group of people (kinda), but you saw a lot of people and teamed up and made friends. Instead we are practically forced to visit 9 areas of the game and that's it.
Everything else is just so empty... :\
If I was SE I would want my players to use all the areas that they released and for everyone to experience them and experience the game, not just 9 areas. This is a game we should all experience together and have adventures and experiences but for me I don't see what they are thinking. The monsters in those areas make NO sense. They don't correspond to the area really... a corpselight is a scary lil thing, why are they even near cockatrices or scorpions or...adamantoises?! Okay, maybe they should of introduced more adamantoises in the game, and Wyrms. Not a whole lot of people got to experience those besides mission/quest versions which was actually a really cool way to get to experience a Wyrm (Ouryu) when most of them are monopolized by HNM LS's. But now you can experience just about any type of monster in the game by walking through 1 single area... its so stupid.
I'm not going to quit over it, but its just aggravating when this game was so fun once upon a time, and now its so much...smaller.
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