League Of Legends |
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League of Legends
Verda said: » This post wasn't directly addressing me but it had valid points and was a good read. Wish you'd go back to that but wtv. Sorry I hurt your feelings. It's a game. I am foaming at the mouth. I literally cannot hold back my rage and I wish every disease known to man upon your loved ones. I hope your enemies win the lottery, and I hope you live long enough to see your own downfall. It has nothing to do with the fact that I like being a vulgar *** to people on the internet. Verda said: » Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » They should go full Smite and make everything or nearly everything skill shots. I wonder how people use their mouse to have so many issues with quickcasts and co. The issue with LoL's assassins is that they're glass cannons with thousands of escapes. The whole mobility design is what makes most assassins unbalanced. They have to rely on invincibility moves/frames to get ***done, it's flawed design by default. Mobility makes or break a champion, it's been like this since season 3 at the very least. A Zed shouldn't be able to get out of jail free the way it does right now, an Ahri shouldn't have 50 Flashes every 50 seconds, Fizz shouldn't have a Zhonya on an 8 seconds cooldown. And so on, it's endless. As long as Riot has to resort giving extreme tools to glass cannons to make sure they can survive, it won't work. Of course, in Riot's design, these things are used to better chase, or to be able to counter what the other players can do but, in practice, it makes for skills that are just too extreme and used defensively. This is the same mentality as them forcing Flash to be used offensively a little while ago, except they're backwards when it comes to skills. The damage reduction on Katarina's E while being ***as an idea is still miles better than any of the escapes I've mentioned above. If Katarina doesn't kill or get assists when she commits, she can easily get blown up. It is somewhat offset by her base movement speed and smart use of her E in a defensive way, but she's still rather easy to punish compared to the 3 names above. They're going in the right direction with Akali's fixes, but I really fear them overbuffing champs that supposedly lose DFG's power. Truth is, most people in solo queue never built DFG on those champions or didn't use it properly, so got a straight buff. A good example would be Bronze/Silver which is going to become hell because of those buffs. Riot really went full ostrich on this one. But that's what we get when Riot is obsessed over patching a game that is aimed toward 100 players, leaving the other millions in the dark. I really wish they had employees who had played fighting games instead of FFXI. I'm still upset they nerfed the other Katarina play styles that were completely valid because due to their own admission it was too hard for them to balance. AD Kat? Gone. Hybrid Kat? Gone. Tank Kat that uses her base damages and survivability and mobility to survive until times a reset happens? Gone. All of them are results of poor design. They listen to a few people who wish to play champions a certain way and that's what they force other people to play. So much for runes and items. Riot themselves pretty much condones a certain play style and tries to force people into it. Your item choices and runes become limited to the point there's only 1-2 ways to play a champion at any competitive level. And instead of signing on to diversity and creativity they double up and only focus on balancing one way to play any champ. Which can lead you to two conclusions: A) Balancing MOBA's is nearly impossible or at least very hard and new territory B) Riot is incompetent. Personally I go with a bit from A and a bit from B. Leaning a bit on the side of B but not too far. Yes, it's difficult to balance a MOBA because of the numbers of characters and power creep. However, power creep in fighting games doesn't exist, because the design of characters is solid right off the bat. The logical conclusion is that Riot, while having decent design, is unable to reach what designers reached in the 90's with Street Fighter and KOF games. While those games have only half of the roster we're dealing with here, they still managed to reach a 80% viability. It's huge. Keep in mind that the game is very well balanced when it comes to pro play. Sure, the pool is less than half of what the game offers (LoL), but it's pretty balanced for those 30/40 champions (if that). The design flaws only affect people like us who aren't in this small pro circuit (not speaking challenger series, those aren't professionals save for very few teams). They do force playstyles. See LCS, it's frowned upon if a pro player doesn't use the specific summoner spells that he "should" use. Supports using Ignite or Smite happen here and there in LCS, for example, but it's still frowned upon by Riot officially. But at the same time, they seem to want to promote different playstyles while staying within their design of a champion, or role. It's a 50/50 situation, really. Good ideas, poor implementations, this is the story of Riot. Imo, they REALLY need some veteran designers of the video game industry and I find it surprising they still haven't hired any, ever. Riot is doing well considering their small experience, though. Overall, at our level, we can only accept how things are and adapt. If you're not happy, you can always post on forums, but we're just random, we have no impact. The whole DFG removal is a good example of a nerf/buff that is only taking pro play into consideration. Since there was a reset in ranks, it's safe to say there are going to be more people in Bronze/Silver than in any higher rank for at the very least 6 to 8 months. So they basically *** over the biggest part of the community here with these unneeded buffs. But once again, we have no impact, what matters is the balance that you see on competitions' streams. It's sad in some ways, but it is LoL's design. skillshots are bad
because ozone layers and global warming.
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: » How are assassin's unreliable?
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: » Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » Most of the decks used in tournaments follow a very reliable strategy, but the game still offers maaaaaaany cards that are completely random. So ... just like MTG? And then, you have Hearthstone, with the card I mentioned in my very first post. Hearthstone offers way too much random ***that have no place in TCG, err, it's not a TCG sorry, but I mean it has no place even in baby's "my first card game ever". Poor design, which is why players try to find ways to go around them, but sometimes you can't. Whereas in Magic, you build your strategy from top to bottom based on something reliable at all point. Being manascrewed and such isn't due to a random factor, the number of mana you put in your deck is based on ratio. You are pretty much guaranteed to have enough mana at all time. I remember playing that 11 mana Darksteel Golem in Mirrodin days, in every single game I played in the London's PTQ, sealed draft. If your ratios are correct, mana is always available. Verda said: » I do hope you know that pointing out a fallacy doesn't make the point he's trying to argue incorrect. Someone isn't doing too well in their philosophy course :( Verda said: » Because *gasp* skill shots miss no matter how good the player or how bad the player they are against.
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Verda said: » Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » Verda said: » Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » They should go full Smite and make everything or nearly everything skill shots. I wonder how people use their mouse to have so many issues with quickcasts and co. The issue with LoL's assassins is that they're glass cannons with thousands of escapes. The whole mobility design is what makes most assassins unbalanced. They have to rely on invincibility moves/frames to get ***done, it's flawed design by default. Mobility makes or break a champion, it's been like this since season 3 at the very least. A Zed shouldn't be able to get out of jail free the way it does right now, an Ahri shouldn't have 50 Flashes every 50 seconds, Fizz shouldn't have a Zhonya on an 8 seconds cooldown. And so on, it's endless. As long as Riot has to resort giving extreme tools to glass cannons to make sure they can survive, it won't work. Of course, in Riot's design, these things are used to better chase, or to be able to counter what the other players can do but, in practice, it makes for skills that are just too extreme and used defensively. This is the same mentality as them forcing Flash to be used offensively a little while ago, except they're backwards when it comes to skills. The damage reduction on Katarina's E while being ***as an idea is still miles better than any of the escapes I've mentioned above. If Katarina doesn't kill or get assists when she commits, she can easily get blown up. It is somewhat offset by her base movement speed and smart use of her E in a defensive way, but she's still rather easy to punish compared to the 3 names above. They're going in the right direction with Akali's fixes, but I really fear them overbuffing champs that supposedly lose DFG's power. Truth is, most people in solo queue never built DFG on those champions or didn't use it properly, so got a straight buff. A good example would be Bronze/Silver which is going to become hell because of those buffs. Riot really went full ostrich on this one. But that's what we get when Riot is obsessed over patching a game that is aimed toward 100 players, leaving the other millions in the dark. I really wish they had employees who had played fighting games instead of FFXI. I'm still upset they nerfed the other Katarina play styles that were completely valid because due to their own admission it was too hard for them to balance. AD Kat? Gone. Hybrid Kat? Gone. Tank Kat that uses her base damages and survivability and mobility to survive until times a reset happens? Gone. All of them are results of poor design. They listen to a few people who wish to play champions a certain way and that's what they force other people to play. So much for runes and items. Riot themselves pretty much condones a certain play style and tries to force people into it. Your item choices and runes become limited to the point there's only 1-2 ways to play a champion at any competitive level. And instead of signing on to diversity and creativity they double up and only focus on balancing one way to play any champ. Which can lead you to two conclusions: A) Balancing MOBA's is nearly impossible or at least very hard and new territory B) Riot is incompetent. Personally I go with a bit from A and a bit from B. Leaning a bit on the side of B but not too far. Yes, it's difficult to balance a MOBA because of the numbers of characters and power creep. However, power creep in fighting games doesn't exist, because the design of characters is solid right off the bat. The logical conclusion is that Riot, while having decent design, is unable to reach what designers reached in the 90's with Street Fighter and KOF games. While those games have only half of the roster we're dealing with here, they still managed to reach a 80% viability. It's huge. Keep in mind that the game is very well balanced when it comes to pro play. Sure, the pool is less than half of what the game offers (LoL), but it's pretty balanced for those 30/40 champions (if that). The design flaws only affect people like us who aren't in this small pro circuit (not speaking challenger series, those aren't professionals save for very few teams). They do force playstyles. See LCS, it's frowned upon if a pro player doesn't use the specific summoner spells that he "should" use. Supports using Ignite or Smite happen here and there in LCS, for example, but it's still frowned upon by Riot officially. But at the same time, they seem to want to promote different playstyles while staying within their design of a champion, or role. It's a 50/50 situation, really. Good ideas, poor implementations, this is the story of Riot. Imo, they REALLY need some veteran designers of the video game industry and I find it surprising they still haven't hired any, ever. Riot is doing well considering their small experience, though. Overall, at our level, we can only accept how things are and adapt. If you're not happy, you can always post on forums, but we're just random, we have no impact. The whole DFG removal is a good example of a nerf/buff that is only taking pro play into consideration. Since there was a reset in ranks, it's safe to say there are going to be more people in Bronze/Silver than in any higher rank for at the very least 6 to 8 months. So they basically *** over the biggest part of the community here with these unneeded buffs. But once again, we have no impact, what matters is the balance that you see on competitions' streams. It's sad in some ways, but it is LoL's design. Riot does consider lower tier play. They consider different skill levels in balancing a champion. To the point it pissed off pros a few times by leaving in mechanics they think aren't good for the health of the game. They also give champions that with low effort have high reward. These also end up being in a lot of pro picks (for reliability). Riot actually does take data from every tier. Bronze, Silver, Gold, Plat, Diamond, Master/Challenger. Once you're past Gold though you're talking 5% of the global population of LoL players. And the rules do get vastly different. Riot does a pretty good job of balancing around all levels of play imho. There's some champions that will never translate well. And others that translate too well. But that's why the ban lists of upper tier play and lower tier play can be so vastly different too. A good example is Fiora being permaban up here while nobody will ever ban her if she's not banned in LCS in anything below plat. But as much as they take everything into consideration, the ultimate show off for your game are the tournaments. You want your game to shine, so you'll balance mainly toward pro play. We could argue that champions like Quinn are "joke champs" that are targeted at us, shitters, but I don't think they'd go that far. Quinn has a clear niche, but i don't think she was ever targeted at pro play like other carries that came out after/around her were. Verda said: » Caitsith.Shiroi said: » How are assassin's unreliable? What you're trying to say is skill shots CAN miss no matter how good the player or how bad the player they are against and that they CAN also hit. Basically what you're saying is because something isn't 100% going to land it is unreliable and therefore a bad game mechanic. What is your attempt at resolving this issue? Having every champion in the game be Ryze? Your argument is garbage.
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Asura.Lolserj said: » YouTube Video Placeholder Verda said: » Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » Verda said: » Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » Verda said: » Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: » They should go full Smite and make everything or nearly everything skill shots. I wonder how people use their mouse to have so many issues with quickcasts and co. The issue with LoL's assassins is that they're glass cannons with thousands of escapes. The whole mobility design is what makes most assassins unbalanced. They have to rely on invincibility moves/frames to get ***done, it's flawed design by default. Mobility makes or break a champion, it's been like this since season 3 at the very least. A Zed shouldn't be able to get out of jail free the way it does right now, an Ahri shouldn't have 50 Flashes every 50 seconds, Fizz shouldn't have a Zhonya on an 8 seconds cooldown. And so on, it's endless. As long as Riot has to resort giving extreme tools to glass cannons to make sure they can survive, it won't work. Of course, in Riot's design, these things are used to better chase, or to be able to counter what the other players can do but, in practice, it makes for skills that are just too extreme and used defensively. This is the same mentality as them forcing Flash to be used offensively a little while ago, except they're backwards when it comes to skills. The damage reduction on Katarina's E while being ***as an idea is still miles better than any of the escapes I've mentioned above. If Katarina doesn't kill or get assists when she commits, she can easily get blown up. It is somewhat offset by her base movement speed and smart use of her E in a defensive way, but she's still rather easy to punish compared to the 3 names above. They're going in the right direction with Akali's fixes, but I really fear them overbuffing champs that supposedly lose DFG's power. Truth is, most people in solo queue never built DFG on those champions or didn't use it properly, so got a straight buff. A good example would be Bronze/Silver which is going to become hell because of those buffs. Riot really went full ostrich on this one. But that's what we get when Riot is obsessed over patching a game that is aimed toward 100 players, leaving the other millions in the dark. I really wish they had employees who had played fighting games instead of FFXI. I'm still upset they nerfed the other Katarina play styles that were completely valid because due to their own admission it was too hard for them to balance. AD Kat? Gone. Hybrid Kat? Gone. Tank Kat that uses her base damages and survivability and mobility to survive until times a reset happens? Gone. All of them are results of poor design. They listen to a few people who wish to play champions a certain way and that's what they force other people to play. So much for runes and items. Riot themselves pretty much condones a certain play style and tries to force people into it. Your item choices and runes become limited to the point there's only 1-2 ways to play a champion at any competitive level. And instead of signing on to diversity and creativity they double up and only focus on balancing one way to play any champ. Which can lead you to two conclusions: A) Balancing MOBA's is nearly impossible or at least very hard and new territory B) Riot is incompetent. Personally I go with a bit from A and a bit from B. Leaning a bit on the side of B but not too far. Yes, it's difficult to balance a MOBA because of the numbers of characters and power creep. However, power creep in fighting games doesn't exist, because the design of characters is solid right off the bat. The logical conclusion is that Riot, while having decent design, is unable to reach what designers reached in the 90's with Street Fighter and KOF games. While those games have only half of the roster we're dealing with here, they still managed to reach a 80% viability. It's huge. Keep in mind that the game is very well balanced when it comes to pro play. Sure, the pool is less than half of what the game offers (LoL), but it's pretty balanced for those 30/40 champions (if that). The design flaws only affect people like us who aren't in this small pro circuit (not speaking challenger series, those aren't professionals save for very few teams). They do force playstyles. See LCS, it's frowned upon if a pro player doesn't use the specific summoner spells that he "should" use. Supports using Ignite or Smite happen here and there in LCS, for example, but it's still frowned upon by Riot officially. But at the same time, they seem to want to promote different playstyles while staying within their design of a champion, or role. It's a 50/50 situation, really. Good ideas, poor implementations, this is the story of Riot. Imo, they REALLY need some veteran designers of the video game industry and I find it surprising they still haven't hired any, ever. Riot is doing well considering their small experience, though. Overall, at our level, we can only accept how things are and adapt. If you're not happy, you can always post on forums, but we're just random, we have no impact. The whole DFG removal is a good example of a nerf/buff that is only taking pro play into consideration. Since there was a reset in ranks, it's safe to say there are going to be more people in Bronze/Silver than in any higher rank for at the very least 6 to 8 months. So they basically *** over the biggest part of the community here with these unneeded buffs. But once again, we have no impact, what matters is the balance that you see on competitions' streams. It's sad in some ways, but it is LoL's design. Riot does consider lower tier play. They consider different skill levels in balancing a champion. To the point it pissed off pros a few times by leaving in mechanics they think aren't good for the health of the game. They also give champions that with low effort have high reward. These also end up being in a lot of pro picks (for reliability). Riot actually does take data from every tier. Bronze, Silver, Gold, Plat, Diamond, Master/Challenger. Once you're past Gold though you're talking 5% of the global population of LoL players. And the rules do get vastly different. Riot does a pretty good job of balancing around all levels of play imho. There's some champions that will never translate well. And others that translate too well. But that's why the ban lists of upper tier play and lower tier play can be so vastly different too. A good example is Fiora being permaban up here while nobody will ever ban her if she's not banned in LCS in anything below plat. But as much as they take everything into consideration, the ultimate show off for your game are the tournaments. You want your game to shine, so you'll balance mainly toward pro play. We could argue that champions like Quinn are "joke champs" that are targeted at us, shitters, but I don't think they'd go that far. Quinn has a clear niche, but i don't think she was ever targeted at pro play like other carries that came out after/around her were. Lol he thinks Plat players get sponsors how *** cute |
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