Are We Hypocrites? (Aeonic SMN Discussion)

Amen. It never happens here, and if it did .. I'd probably laugh my arse off at them in /yell.

I spy with my little eye a smn worried about a nerf..

Yes. There have been a few standout examples. One was a dude sitting for "4-song or honor March" BRD only; and another more common one is how people shout for REMA DD, exclusively, for rakaznar bats. I even got denied once because my fresh SAM wasn't minimum 1200 acc before any sort of buff. It's not even required and easily made up for with food, lol.
People in asura are silly.

I, for one, welcome whinja's return.

Giving someone a better weapon doesn't make them a worse player.

Worst case it makes weak players suck less than they would have done with more easily acquired gear. Best case it allows casual/time constrained/returning but actually skilled players able to compete on higher level content.

Back in the early days of SoA it was absolute murder to try and get in Delve on MNK if you didn't have Oatixur. The group I was with at the time couldn't organize a win, so I went screw this and got a pair merc'd.

After that, happy days. I could both get in PUGs and contribute well, I also could help my then shell more.

Was it a "cheap" way to improve my situation. For sure.
Did my skill level suddenly change? Of course not.

Did I ever regret buying the win, or have the slightest qualm about the ethics of paying a merc group to get me something I otherwise was unable to? Hell no. It was the smart thing to do under the circumstances.

The old saying goes

"Gear Doesn't fix stupid"

How another group clears content doesn't bother me in the slightest unless they are taking up #2's ???. But at the same time, it should be curbed a bit. Kinda insane what they can do -


It's an issue that needs to be addressed eventually.

Aeonic SMN strategy is just one of many strategies that work if you have all the jobs available, including support roles. Sometimes an LS has to try other strategies when people are absent. Confining an LS to just one strategy hurts in the long run because people will get bored.

End game SMN zerg and burn becomes gimped without proper support and a tank. Add GEO debuffs, COR crooked boosted rolls and support helping with MP temps is what makes SMN zergs and burns truly shine. Mythic SMNs alone can't get the sick spike damage on end game without support especially if you have a small LS. In my LS, if we only have 3 or 4 mythic SMNs and a GEO or COR is absent, we can't SMN burn. We also can't melee zerg without a good support base. It's called team work.

What gets weird is when support gets bored playing support roles and none of the melee class have the patience to play support. Then you have situations where support leaves because support also has the gear and skill to play melee jobs. What's the use of playing only one job class when you have the gear and skill to play DD as well as support?

Great team work requires being skilled and geared in more than one type of job in case a WHM or Idris Geo is unavailable. Sometimes a SCH has to take up the slack when the WHM DCs. Sometimes the COR has to come /whm to help with -na spells.

All other strats require more support, while doing less.

That's a red herring. People have been shouting for RME jobs since before SMN zergs or Aeonics even existed.

You can solo an RME on damn near any job in the game. SMN zergs have nothing to do with your mules not getting invited to shout groups.

Before summoners were doing this, weren't Beastmasters and Blue mages doing the same thing? And if you look back further on other difficult content, samurais and monks were doing the same thing.

Asking to have a REMA only for a cp party is indeed stupid i agree, the point of going into a cp party is to get stronger with a base job (specially if u just geared it with the minimum), i didnt see that kind of shout even once here in ragna.

And about the start of your post, something that happened in my ls not too long ago:

XX person who organizes events asks for rema only for the DDs that wanna join, he was on the proccess of making an aeonic but couldnt get past the T4 wall in sky after trying months, his solution? he went to asura, got merced what was left of it and came back to ragnarok with a fresh heishi shorinken.

He still looks down on people without a rema (after buying gil and mercing his own aeonic), argues and attempts to troll people that multi-box and when he organizes events, fails miserably unless he's doing T1s in zitah.

He doesnt swap gear, plays key jobs without understanding of them and if stuff fails, he blames others.

With all this all i can say is, i agree with you on the scrub part but maybe i dont understand it much since it didnt really happen much in ragna, the mercs ive done for people were like XX person missing albumen and schah and stuff like that, not whole rema clears like there.

I dont agree with the smn bashing some ppl do, but you are right on your argument there.

No, not even close to the same thing. BSTs were doing something similar but not on the hardest targets.

Incorrect. They shouted for RME when VW was a thing, because there were enough people around to be exclusive in your build. That's not the case anymore and it has become a solidly exclusive smn problem fueling REMA only mentality.

When the lowest class citizens have it, it becomes acceptable to expect everyone has it, even the ones that can't be bothered to get it.

Beastmasters did the EXACT only they had revitalizers on all the bosses, that is how I got my first omen win. As much as its not as commonly known, Blue mages do the same thing with less people needed. When Delve was the big thing, Monks used Hundred fists the same way. Back on 75 content Samurai were using Meikyo Shisui on Kirin and such.

Delve Omen and level i145 content are not the same thing.

BST zerging never went past Maju Yakshi and Neak. You never saw a group of bsts kill schah or albumen. (in 30 seconds etc)

It's Apples v. Oranges

Yeah, it was extremely lame to be MNK ONRY for Delve, and RNG ONRY for HTB and BLU ONRY for *insert random thing here*

Conduit is a completely different monster.

I wasn't implying the content was the same, I was saying the method was the same. And no, not quite the same speed but yes very fast. My point is that everybody has their time to shine, if people get jealous that is their problem. Conduit is not what kills the mobs but rather a combination of well geared Geomancers tanks and Corsairs too. Without the Mythic weapons, Tp, food and don't forget the three stars and a little strategy. It isn't like a random summoner can just waltz in and solo the entire content.

Just 1 geo is enough but yea i agree with all this about smn and will add that timing is a thing too, that's when stuff like skype, teamspeak or discord is a blessing, if you dont time the AF/AC with odylic you risk of amnesia or stupid stuff on the pets towards the end of AC.

It doesn’t happen there cause there’s 16 ppl on that server.

So what you're really doing is being mad at yourself because u either don't make your own party or you can't figure out good from bad players and keep a mental note not to invite the same stupid. I'm sure coming from a heavily populated server you have a large range of ppl to choose from. But I guess taking the few extra mins to shout and pick your own party members is extremely terrible. So what if you reject people, afraid to be hated? Or aren't u making your own party? It's always been about people and not the shiney for me. If moron A has any rema and thinks they're hot crap, let them do what they want. YOU choose what u join/not join or accept/not accept. The smn bashing for all is just getting old. Or is the merc group more your problem? Cuz i'm sure there's more than 1 group mercing clears and not all use the smn strat. So which is it?

I think people are mad that smn is the most op way of clearing content because the skill cap is so low that any dotard with a credit carr can do it with minimum support

Can check the video I posted... let me know when you can find a video of people doing the same content in the same time with a different set up...

People are mad to be mad.

Though, if I saw people shouting for REMA to CP, I'd be cross also. That's pathetic.

Though, I'd be more understanding of the rage towards SMNs if those people were only shouting for REMA SMNs to CP...
Let me know when you find a video of people shouting for SMNs to CP.

SMN is the best DD, it's just that the war-drk-sam Bandwagon has a hard time accepting they are now gimp. REMA SMN or bust. Also thoses aeonic weapons mostly suck so who cares...

SMN burn is an option. That's all it is. Just because some choose to use it doesn't invalidate Aeonic weapons belonging to people who did it the hard way.

If you're going to the beach, you can take the highway and get there quickly, or you can take the scenic route and stop at small towns on the way. Some people decide due to time constraints or personal preference to go direct and others will take the long way because, for them, the drive is half the fun. Regardless of how you get there, the sun will shine equally on everyone there.

Personally, I have 5 Aeonics all made the long way. But I'd wouldn't be opposed to making a couple the SMN burn way just to see what it's all about. It really doesn't matter. In the end, this is a game meant to be played for fun. If you're all upset and stuff, you're only really harming yourself.

It's pretty simple if you have summoners to get aeonic most people will use that strategy. It isn't hard to figure out why. Once you have one aeonic it is about being efficient.

It really does though. It's not like you got amazingly good at using SMN and decided it was a better option.

SMN just won the *** lottery with the dart board at SE. And everyone who spent days making Aeonics got screwed cause you can do it in 2 hours now if you were one of the lotto winners.

If it were skill based, then there wouldn't be so much of an issue (to me) but it's purely random that square choose to do it. Not based off of information, or talent, or metrics.

This is not how a MMORPG works though. Going to the beach has no progression (skill/gear improvement) so taking the scenic or fast route is just a matter of personal choice and doesn't ruin the final experience. In FFXI, endgame content (and Aeonic if still a key part of it regardless of what people say) is supposed to work on the following cycle: try new content -> struggle -> find a better strategy -> success and get better gear -> old content is now easier because you have acquired knowledge/gear -> move to harder content. The current situation is that smashing a key for 30 seconds will make this cycle worthless so you may get 16 aeonics but learn nothing and just have some shiny artifacts for mannequins. If that's your final goal in game, do it by all means but it is toxic to the game if people never improve and everything is just a time-based grind.

I do approve of people using the fastest strategy after they completed several round because then they already acquired all knowledge/gear they needed to move to the next step and at this point it's just a matter of being time-efficient.

If the goal was to get an aeonic weapon most people would quit after getting one. There is way more to the game then a damn weapon.

This is where I have to disagree. First, we didn't get screwed. Our Aeonics work just as well now as they did when we first made them. SMN burning didn't make ours degrade.

Secondly, it takes a week, tops, to level skill and gear a job. Everyone has access to SMN. I could understand if we were stuck at 1 job per character, but we're not. So when a new strategy comes out that makes something easier, it makes it easier for everyone. We just all have the choice to use this strategy or not.

And don't worry about bad players making easy Aeonics. The worst players usually just stay in town saying "I'm bored" in social LS chat. Weaker players will always need at least one good player to take the lead. Maybe SMN burns will help less experienced players gain the experience and confidence to become good players. After doing something the same way a few times, they might have the gear and desire to try a different method.

Why the hell do you even need an aeonic weapon so you can afk in Jeuno ? Once you get the weapon you kinda already did the hardest (debatable) content there is. The people that have all REMA wepaons should just quit. Cause you pretty much did all the content. And no ambuscade is not content. It's a way of them saying we messed up drop rates so here is an alternative way to get REMA materials. And keep you subscribed.

a lot of people i know that did finish their aeonics, eventually quit due to realizing theres not really much left to do afterwards except do it again and pay $13+ a month for a chat service.
Personally i missed the chat service and just came back after a 6 month break.

And....

I tried to type a comment but quickly realized