Reisenjima T4s

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Reisenjima T4s
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 Odin.Taffy
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By Odin.Taffy 2017-05-01 10:01:04
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Looking for some advice on Albumen. We are struggling >.<

We have tried many setups but the general gist of it is we are getting resisted like crazy.

Idris Geo - tried both ways with him casting malaise/acummen and Focus/Languor. Second Geo casting other. Brd landing Drk Therondy 2, Rdm landing Frazzle, Distortion > Leaden > Death. 4 very well geared black mages (not sure on their sets but mine is almost perfectly augmented, MP @ 2300 in precast, MBD Capped and between 30-37 macc and matt on all merlinic) - best I hit last night was 67k and thst was with Bolster up. We fought during the day, so no level ups. Even with Bolster up we were still resisted like crazy.

Any advice?

On a side note we did try a Rng style and once the other 2 rng catch up to mine we could probably use this method but it means dropping people to drop hp and doing multiple runs.

Any advice appreciated. We could also go Blu zerg or thf zerg, we have the jobs geared. That Petal back spin though >.<?
 Asura.Midgitis
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By Asura.Midgitis 2017-05-01 10:08:55
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Melee zerg is pretty easy, just make use of asylum and temp items to block amnesia and make sure the whm isn't shy to bene off paralyze etc.. if it lands. Esuna is a whm friend for petal back

Also just make sure the paladin uses amnesia tonic and fealty before pulling then burns through all his job abilities then uses super revit and uses them all again to keep hate, its pretty simple but messing up even one thing can cause a snowball affect of things to happen and lead to a wipe.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-05-01 10:12:39
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Quote:
I use
Blux3 geo whm
Pld geo brd

And outside buffers

With harden shell, barrier tusk, mighty guard, miso ramen, wilt the blus aren't at much risk and pld is mostly just there to give adds a target on pop. Blus shouldnt die as long as they fan out to minimize counters and are quick on panacea.

Multiboxed maybe 15 kills like that, 1 or 2 losses caused by personal errors, 1 loss caused by blus dying in a probably unpreventable way. Pretty reliable and with the time saved not waiting on adds a single reset is pretty unconsequential.

Dont pop at night though, even if troub is up to dispel it seems to immediately level up and gain insane eva from phaenopsis(sp?).


melee:
miso ramen
protect
shell
boostdex
barrier tusk
harden shell
mighty guard
barfira
baramnesra
fire carolx2(amnesia)
dark carolx2(doom)
honor march
madx2
minuet5
chaos
samurai
rogues
fighters

(you really don't need that much.. i would highly advise the second brd but the cors are more of a 'use because i have' situation, it usually dies with tons of time to spare even with 2 leeches.. left it at 8 songs because i use dual cor but you could throw up ice carols or more minuets if you have daurs/room)

tank:
pro/shell
barfira
baramnesra
ice carolx2
earth carolx2
fire carolx2
dark carolx2
marchx2

tank pt geo does attune/vex, entrust wilt

melee pt geo does attune/frailty, entrust precision fury torpor on DD (wild card or revit entrust just before pop so you can use it, use it, revit, use it a third time)

ideally, you can kill before third set of adds but since #9 is fine to pop you can also pop n/t/marcato/revit and buy a new revit before popping to cover third add pop if needed

and can't stress enough that my buffs are severely overkill, there's just no reason not to use everything i have available

writeup i did in another thread.. it's enough damage for at least 16 chars as is for me so you can keep your buffers in and/or add other misc jobs as long as your blus are on point
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-01 10:15:21
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Odin.Taffy said: »
We have tried many setups but the general gist of it is we are getting resisted like crazy.

Your RDM needs a talking to and possibly firing.

ES Sab Frazzle III is somewhere around 200 or more -MEVD, and that's without crazy bad *** gear. It should last a long *** time (the RDM should be 2100JP). Use a revit and the RDM can reapply it if it wears, though we've killed it before mine wore. BRD should be landing the Dark Therondy with Marcato and either ES or NT.

This guy is a huge pushover, unless your support has thrown together a *** build and is just derping along, then it's an absolute nightmare.
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By clearlyamule 2017-05-01 10:16:35
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Odin.Llewelyn said: »
So I guess Weapon Bash bypasses immunities if you actually did experience it landing on Kin.

Reisenjima T4s - SMN and Omen edition.
Think it might sometimes. Long time ago my ls was fighting ultima and stuns weren't working because of shield then last second used weapon bash and bam managed stun CB.
 Shiva.Spynx
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By Shiva.Spynx 2017-05-01 10:27:09
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Odin.Taffy said: »
We have tried many setups but the general gist of it is we are getting resisted like crazy.

Your RDM needs a talking to and possibly firing.

ES Sab Frazzle III is somewhere around 200 or more -MEVD, and that's without crazy bad *** gear. It should last a long *** time (the RDM should be 2100JP). Use a revit and the RDM can reapply it if it wears, though we've killed it before mine wore. BRD should be landing the Dark Therondy with Marcato and either ES or NT.

This guy is a huge pushover, unless your support has thrown together a *** build and is just derping along, then it's an absolute nightmare.

I can confirm this: as long as your debuffers/blm aren't really undergeared, focus/languor+Therondy+Frazzle3 push the resist rate to the minimum (our "worst" BLM, still decently geared, never got a resist and most his deaths were doing around 60-70k with the 99k rayke/gambit'd)
 Odin.Taffy
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By Odin.Taffy 2017-05-01 11:01:49
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What could be causing it to be failing with the above buffs? I'm so stumped... but support are all geared well and we haven't had any problems with other nms up to Albumen (we are on our last 3, albumen, schah and vinapata). Hitting hard on all other nms including the other t4's. Have not attempted schah or vinny yet.

Brd is using nitro and sv with etudes and then sleeping and dark threnody 2. Rdm is sab frazzle 2 (Hes 70 jp away from frazzle 3 I think) - geos are both geared very well and one of them is idris. I can link my Blm set from my lua later so you can see the augments / set but like I said it's your typical death mb set keeping mp above 2200 hitting mbd cap with all merlinic having a minimum augment of macc and mab 30. All jobs are started except the rdm and brd but both rdm and brd are geared very well.

I understand the strategy - I'm popping with manawall and lasting out all adds. Quickly wipe and re raise and buff up. We only have 1 run but he's super revit and random dealing rayke/gambit. We must be missing something simple I just don't know what hence why I came to the community for advice :(
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-01 11:09:18
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Your RDM is useless. Replace them with someone who has recent experience playing it.
 Shiva.Spynx
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By Shiva.Spynx 2017-05-01 11:12:41
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I think your main issue could be the frazzle II vs III that according to bgwiki is a -80 meva difference (50 vs 130 caps) and those values may even not be up to date. Just to put that in perspective, non-idris GEO languor is 75 so it's like you are completely missing another debuff. The strat you mentioned is the one we use and works pretty well when we don't *** up breakga/sleep. Also obvious but make sure that the Idris geo is the one doing the accuracy bubbles and it tags the mob again if he gets hit by Petalback Spin (hate reset)

[Edit] Just checked and the hate reset is only on the primary target so won't be an issue, just make sure that the loupon is always alive
 Odin.Taffy
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By Odin.Taffy 2017-05-01 11:21:04
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Your RDM is useless. Replace them with someone who has recent experience playing it.

Care to elaborate with some actual advice? He's doing exactly what you said he should do. Just doesn't quite have the JP yet (my fault he's been asking everyone to CP for 3 weeks) - is the difference between Frazzle 2 and Frazzle 3 really the breaking point here?

If so I'll put all the focus on helping him master it this week.

Looking at this set he is very close to it from last time I remember checking him. He does have Regal Gem, Enki Strap and Grio as well as the other important pieces. NQ Stinky rings though.

ItemSet 346904
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-05-01 11:24:53
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Yes, Frazzle 3's cap before Saboteur is almost triple the potency of Frazzle 1. It's almost the difference of an entire extra Languor or Focus
 Odin.Taffy
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By Odin.Taffy 2017-05-01 11:25:17
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Shiva.Spynx said: »
I think your main issue could be the frazzle II vs III that according to bgwiki is a -80 meva difference (50 vs 130 caps) and those values may even not be up to date. Just to put that in perspective, non-idris GEO languor is 75 so it's like you are completely missing another debuff. The strat you mentioned is the one we use and works pretty well when we don't *** up breakga/sleep. Also obvious but make sure that the Idris geo is the one doing the accuracy bubbles and it tags the mob again if he gets hit by Petalback Spin (hate reset)

[Edit] Just checked and the hate reset is only on the primary target so won't be an issue, just make sure that the loupon is always alive

We have a Blu/Blm come and ES Entomb the adds to wake them so we never mess up sleeps and dont pull a blm away from nuking. I Feel like we have the strategy down very well, maybe the difference here really is frazzle 2 vs 3, will update after we try Sunday if that made the difference pushing us over the edge.

Any other advice please let me know, thanks for the input all^^
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-01 11:36:04
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Odin.Taffy said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Your RDM is useless. Replace them with someone who has recent experience playing it.

Care to elaborate with some actual advice? He's doing exactly what you said he should do. Just doesn't quite have the JP yet (my fault he's been asking everyone to CP for 3 weeks) - is the difference between Frazzle 2 and Frazzle 3 really the breaking point here?

If so I'll put all the focus on helping him master it this week.

Looking at this set he is very close to it from last time I remember checking him. He does have Regal Gem, Enki Strap and Grio as well as the other important pieces. NQ Stinky rings though.

ItemSet 346904

Wiki
Red Mage
Gifts

Count enfeebling magic
Count magic accuracy
Realize that Frazzle III is almost entirely based on skill unlikw Frazzle II.
Realize the effects of Sab and +potency on Frazzle III

Finally realize the RDM in question should ALREADY know this and you shouldn't of even had to ask.

That's up there with a BLM not knowing about dINT or a DS not knowing their WSCs.

Fighting 150 content is about more then copying someone's gear from a forum and collecting it on COR or GEO.
 Odin.Taffy
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By Odin.Taffy 2017-05-01 11:42:22
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As I said Sae, he has been bugging about the jp for 2 weeks and probably does know this. I on the other hand, did not. That's why I came here for advice :)

What is dINT?......






I'm kidding - hope that you read that and it made you at least smile a little ;p
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-05-01 11:45:17
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Odin.Taffy said: »
What could be causing it to be failing with the above buffs? I'm so stumped... but support are all geared well and we haven't had any problems with other nms up to Albumen (we are on our last 3, albumen, schah and vinapata). Hitting hard on all other nms including the other t4's. Have not attempted schah or vinny yet.

Could you define this "Geared well"?
I think there are a lot of ranges between what is geared well, and geared Right.

Full 119 gear no Jp? Nope
Full 119 + 500+ jp= Nope
Full 119 2100+ Right gear sets to maximize every action = Yes
Could help to know what gear you have in the mix so ppl who know the job best can maybe suggest what is, if anything, missing.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-05-01 11:57:57
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Taffy said:
I can link my Blm set from my lua later so you can see the augments / set but like I said it's your typical death mb set keeping mp above 2200 hitting mbd cap with all merlinic having a minimum augment of macc and mab 30.

If you insist on nuking it, then I would suggest going with Fire MBs over Death. EDIT: Ah, I see you're doing Leaden as well- well, it would depend then on how good your COR is.
 Odin.Taffy
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By Odin.Taffy 2017-05-01 12:02:06
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Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
Odin.Taffy said: »
What could be causing it to be failing with the above buffs? I'm so stumped... but support are all geared well and we haven't had any problems with other nms up to Albumen (we are on our last 3, albumen, schah and vinapata). Hitting hard on all other nms including the other t4's. Have not attempted schah or vinny yet.

Could you define this "Geared well"?
I think there are a lot of ranges between what is geared well, and geared Right.

Full 119 gear no Jp? Nope
Full 119 + 500+ jp= Nope
Full 119 2100+ Right gear sets to maximize every action = Yes
Could help to know what gear you have in the mix so ppl who know the job best can maybe suggest what is, if anything, missing.

Geo 1: Idris, All applicable Skill+, DT- and Pet Regen sets so bubbles never fall, Idris - master

Geo 2: As above minus the Idris - Master

Tank Geo: As above minus Idris - 1270 ish JP (don't always take the tank Geo unless everyone is on as they can fill other spots as needed)

Cor: Max duration, still no Ou neck for rolls. Good leaden set. All applicable AF/Empy/Relic - 400 ish JP and currently working on it (or main cor quit last week so he's pushing this up to get it to par)

Rdm I Explained above.

Brd: All REMA incluing Carniwen, geared very well including some +3 AF. 7min duration on her sleeps for adds. Not master but working on this as we speak.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-01 12:02:23
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If you guys are using 2 RUNs then you can MB death, otherwise Fire might be better. We use 2 RUNs with revit and a COR ja resets with BLMs /SCH to spam Death's really fast.
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By Odin.Taffy 2017-05-01 12:03:06
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Siren.Kyte said: »
Taffy said:
I can link my Blm set from my lua later so you can see the augments / set but like I said it's your typical death mb set keeping mp above 2200 hitting mbd cap with all merlinic having a minimum augment of macc and mab 30.

If you insist on nuking it, then I would suggest going with Fire MBs over Death.

Everything I've read said Death Death Death - if Fire works well this would really simplify things for us IMO.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-05-01 12:05:06
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I don't know why people have seemingly always talked about using Death- Fire was easier to deal with pre-updates and is certainly easier now.
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By Afania 2017-05-01 12:25:03
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Siren.Kyte said: »
Taffy said:
I can link my Blm set from my lua later so you can see the augments / set but like I said it's your typical death mb set keeping mp above 2200 hitting mbd cap with all merlinic having a minimum augment of macc and mab 30.

If you insist on nuking it, then I would suggest going with Fire MBs over Death. EDIT: Ah, I see you're doing Leaden as well- well, it would depend then on how good your COR is.


Albuman was one of the toughest high lv NM to do good leaden dmg on before nerf, I imagine it's going to be even tougher now.

(I'm fact, I don't recommend mage start for Mandy, personally)
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-01 12:28:28
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Siren.Kyte said: »
I don't know why people have seemingly always talked about using Death- Fire was easier to deal with pre-updates and is certainly easier now.

Because Death does a lot more damage, if you have the support for it. ES Sab Frazzle III + ES Marcato Dark Threnody II + Langour is floored magic evasion. Then RUN 1 Does Gambit x 3, RUN 2 does Rayke x 3, MB 4~8 Alacrity Deaths (depends on how many BLMs you bring) for 800 ~ 900K damage. Myke + temps for MP back and do it again. If timed right you can get two volleys per Rayke (it's a shorter duration). The RUN's then swap JA's and you do it twice again. Everyone pops super revits and do it four more times before we start bringing the COR in for Random Deal, which usually gives another attempt or two before Wildcard is needed. That is a lot of magic damage in a very short period of time, for us it dies in a few minutes.

The only problem I've ever had with meleeing it when it counters me to death. Melee modes only works when your DD's are good enough to kill it but not good enough to pull hate from the tank, otherwise procing a DA or TA and having it counter you for 800 damage each followed by it's regular attack for multiple hits of 500 sucks ***.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2017-05-01 12:37:35
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Afania said:
Albuman was one of the toughest high lv NM to do good leaden dmg on before nerf, I imagine it's going to be even tougher now.

I figured that was probably the case but I thought he might know something I didn't.

Saevel said:
Melee modes only works when your DD's are good enough to kill it but not good enough to pull hate from the tank, otherwise procing a DA or TA and having it counter you for 800 damage each followed by it's regular attack for multiple hits of 500 sucks ***.

You're going to pull hate from the tank regardless due to resets- you just need to be on a job that's prepared to take a few swings.
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-05-01 12:38:21
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Odin.Taffy said: »
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
Odin.Taffy said: »
What could be causing it to be failing with the above buffs? I'm so stumped... but support are all geared well and we haven't had any problems with other nms up to Albumen (we are on our last 3, albumen, schah and vinapata). Hitting hard on all other nms including the other t4's. Have not attempted schah or vinny yet.

Could you define this "Geared well"?
I think there are a lot of ranges between what is geared well, and geared Right.

Full 119 gear no Jp? Nope
Full 119 + 500+ jp= Nope
Full 119 2100+ Right gear sets to maximize every action = Yes
Could help to know what gear you have in the mix so ppl who know the job best can maybe suggest what is, if anything, missing.

Geo 1: Idris, All applicable Skill+, DT- and Pet Regen sets so bubbles never fall, Idris - master

Geo 2: As above minus the Idris - Master

Tank Geo: As above minus Idris - 1270 ish JP (don't always take the tank Geo unless everyone is on as they can fill other spots as needed)

Cor: Max duration, still no Ou neck for rolls. Good leaden set. All applicable AF/Empy/Relic - 400 ish JP and currently working on it (or main cor quit last week so he's pushing this up to get it to par)

Rdm I Explained above.

Brd: All REMA incluing Carniwen, geared very well including some +3 AF. 7min duration on her sleeps for adds. Not master but working on this as we speak.
Very good
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-01 12:48:35
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Taffy you need to stop what you guys are doing and focus on getting your people to at least 1800JP. "Gifts" are essentially level ups where lots of extremely important stats get increased by large amounts. The only jobs that can get by without being at 1800+ are 900 skill GEO, WHM's and COR's, the rest need 1800 due to all the +Skill and Magic Accuracy they get.

Here is what RDM gets for example. BRD, BLM, RUN is all similiar.

Quote:
Magic Accuracy
10
15

Past 550
20
25

Enfeebling Skill
5
8

Past 550
10
13

And BRD

Quote:
Magic Accuracy
5
8

Past 550
10
13

Skill
5 for all three
8 for all three

Past 550
10 for all three
13 for all three
 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2017-05-01 12:49:22
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Afania said: »
Siren.Kyte said: »
Taffy said:
I can link my Blm set from my lua later so you can see the augments / set but like I said it's your typical death mb set keeping mp above 2200 hitting mbd cap with all merlinic having a minimum augment of macc and mab 30.

If you insist on nuking it, then I would suggest going with Fire MBs over Death. EDIT: Ah, I see you're doing Leaden as well- well, it would depend then on how good your COR is.


Albuman was one of the toughest high lv NM to do good leaden dmg on before nerf, I imagine it's going to be even tougher now.

(I'm fact, I don't recommend mage start for Mandy, personally)

Agreed. I mean if you have a surplus of hq RUN, sure, have at it. But if you don't, stick with ranged physical RNG/COR/SMN. Gets the job done.
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By Bahamut.Boogerballs 2017-05-01 12:58:26
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Ragnarok.Inx said: »
Afania said: »
Siren.Kyte said: »
Taffy said:
I can link my Blm set from my lua later so you can see the augments / set but like I said it's your typical death mb set keeping mp above 2200 hitting mbd cap with all merlinic having a minimum augment of macc and mab 30.

If you insist on nuking it, then I would suggest going with Fire MBs over Death. EDIT: Ah, I see you're doing Leaden as well- well, it would depend then on how good your COR is.


Albuman was one of the toughest high lv NM to do good leaden dmg on before nerf, I imagine it's going to be even tougher now.

(I'm fact, I don't recommend mage start for Mandy, personally)

Agreed. I mean if you have a surplus of hq RUN, sure, have at it. But if you don't, stick with ranged physical RNG/COR/SMN. Gets the job done.

oh man, here comes the smn hate...
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-05-01 13:23:46
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Bahamut.Boogerballs said: »
Ragnarok.Inx said: »
Afania said: »
Siren.Kyte said: »
Taffy said:
I can link my Blm set from my lua later so you can see the augments / set but like I said it's your typical death mb set keeping mp above 2200 hitting mbd cap with all merlinic having a minimum augment of macc and mab 30.

If you insist on nuking it, then I would suggest going with Fire MBs over Death. EDIT: Ah, I see you're doing Leaden as well- well, it would depend then on how good your COR is.


Albuman was one of the toughest high lv NM to do good leaden dmg on before nerf, I imagine it's going to be even tougher now.

(I'm fact, I don't recommend mage start for Mandy, personally)

Agreed. I mean if you have a surplus of hq RUN, sure, have at it. But if you don't, stick with ranged physical RNG/COR/SMN. Gets the job done.

oh man, here comes the smn hate...

That horse has long since left the stable. Not enough time between now and May 10th to get their SMN's burning.
 Asura.Xijaah
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By Asura.Xijaah 2017-05-01 13:44:01
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Hello people, i would like to kindly remind that, although it is evident some of you completely ignore it, many skilled/diehard smns made the job work for t4s way before AC zergs were a thing (you could find it inspiring to go back a few pages back and see their awesome contribution to the topic before It derailed).
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-05-01 13:47:03
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And those skilled, diehard SMNs will still be able to make it work after AC zergs cease to be a thing. The only people who are going to be suffering are the ones who threw everything they could at getting apogee/nirvana to jump on the bandwagon without actually learning the job or building the other related sets.
[+]
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