$14.5 B Tax Refunds Issued By "error"

better yet King, Jackson paid our debt off in 2 years with 15 states i think we could do better with 50, that beats 5 year your talking about and yes it was without a central fractional reserve banking system

there was no Federal Income tax taking american citizens hard earned pay from there checks

there was no IRS either

and there certaintly was no federal reserve

the US best economy was after the civil war and it was also without a federal reserve it lasted up until 1913.

we can create US history revamp our economic engines again to do better

but it will only work without the federal reserve and the 16th amendment.

Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Money went a lot further back then , then it does now you can not honestly deny that if you do you are a LAIR AND REFUSE TO LISTEN TO TRUTH.
If you are talking about inflation, then you are correct. However, are you attributing inflation solely on a centralized banking system?

Yes because the federal reserve sets value to our currency which should rightfully belong SOLELY to congress, but they signed the right away in the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.


Yes there was global trade before 1913 there was trade routes.

I am not saying we should stop progressing our society , what i am saying is we should remove our nation from the poison that is fractional centralized reserve banking as a means to continue to benefit our society to encourage innovation and growth and ultimately Strengthening our nation as a whole.

Yes i know the constitution but do you know those " things called amendments in the constitution" yeah those things change.

i never said there was no taxes before 1913 either, but there was certainly a lot less taxes thats a FACT and our representatives were not making as much as they are now giving themselves raises when the american people do not.

I do not know why you are so concerned about our national defense brother our nation has overcome many odds against it with way less funding. We have over 350 million armed american citizens how insecure are you? we have also never had a ground invasion since 1812 as well because of the beauty of the 2nd amendment. I have your back, i hope you have mine.

How much was the debt back then? What was the spending/receipts at the time? What programs were the spending used for then?

What are the parameters to this? In other words, what basis do you have for this claim?

How?

At the levels we have today?


I hope you realize the purpose of my above questions.

If not, I will be more than happy to explain it to you.

Currently at work. I will answer to the best of my ability in the simplest way possible to those questions. Currently on my phone it's hard to copy and paste with it on the fly. I am not so tech savvy lol. In all honesty to save our nation will not take rocket science epic formulas. All it takes is fundamental common sense. I get off around 8 am so you should expect a proper answer around then when I am home.

For the first question we had a national debt before Jackson took office of roughly 15.4 million dollars. Now mind you a dollar back then was worth around 25 dollars of purchasing power today. See how marvelous centralized banking institutions work. They succeed in devaluing a nations currency!

The 15.4 million was comparable to the 17 trillion we have today it was a crap ton of money during those days. We incurred the 15 million from the lusiana purchase west of the Mississippi River from napoleon when he was waging war over Europe he sold it to us. The remaining debt was mostly the revolution war we had never paid off at the time.

You know what's sad the supreme court ruled citizens United in favor of corporations. They are considered individuals now . Now that's what I call corruption at its finest. Because guess what some of those big corporations do not pay taxes. Yet you and me as individuals have to. Kind of makes you think who is congress really representing here lol.

Edit : I really got to hand it to them with misleading titles like Citizens United. Really makes you think it's for everyone.

They should of titled it " corporations are allowed more free speech then regular citizens because they can almost spend uncapped amounts of money to buy favor in office elections because money talks not human beings who have a soul and heart."

Where's your source on this statement?

Do you not know what the Citizen United case was about? I'm guessing not because you only took 1 very small aspect of the case and blew it out of proportion.

Do you know why? I'm pretty sure you can guess it, but probably not.

I can also provide examples if you would like. Name a corporation that didn't pay taxes in a certain year, and I will show you why they didn't.

If you fall under the same guidelines as the corporation that didn't pay taxes, you don't have to in that year.

I'm going to give you a chance to figure that out on your own, but if you need help, you can always ask me.

Keep it up, your ignorance is showing.

For your 2nd question, about how the US's greatest economy was between the civil war and before 1913.

Between 1860 and 1900 the US was undergoing a great industrial boom, and in the world market at 1890 the US over took by leaps and bounds over Britain for first place in Manufacturing output, some of the top 10 leading industries by value was

Machinery
iron and Steel
Printing and publishing
Lumber
Clothing
Liquor
Cotton goods
Masonry and brick
General shop construction
Meatpacking

As a nation we was also expanding our highway system we didn't have many roads but was funding it just fine without a income tax and american citizens were receiving there FULL pay checks mostly paid at there places of employment by cash and were not forced to go to banks as a 3rd party intermediate. All this and more without a federal reserve or a IRS or income tax there a lot more we was advancing fast.

For your 3rd question about How we CAN revamp our industrial engines and make US history with the help of repealing the 16th amendment and abolishing the federal reserve.

Our banking system as it is today is not in the best interest of the american people. The fed has reduced the value of the dollar by nearly 90 percent. The fed is a perpetual debt machine for the US and its government and people and we know who is slave to the debtor. The federal reserve is a centrally planned financial system that is the opposite of what Austrian economist would consider a Free Market. The fed creates far more bubbles ( dot com, housing) then without fractional reserve banking. the fed is privately owned and operated with no government oversight or audits. The fed favors the too big to fail banks ( ie its owners). The fed lends secret bailouts to its friends ( page 131 of the GAO audit accounts for 16 trillion from the last crisis it created and handed out) and will also pay banks not to lend to the american citizens. The fed has a horrible track record with some of the largest panics and recessions ever suffered under its belt. This is all very obvious and FACTUAL with hard data to back it up. A small group of private banks control a governments currency how is this beneficial to the people ? Not only is this treasonous it is more effective than using an army to invade and control a government. He who controls the purse strings controls the nation and contrary to the Constitution its unfortunately not congress in our case, please see The federal reserve act of 1913.

can you honestly say everything's been peachy under 101 years of this poisonous beast?

Conjecture is not evidence. Just because you think it's true doesn't mean it is. But I asked for your source, not what you think.

Also, all of those industries have been advanced by technology. These items were not produced in the same manner as they are today, and nearly all of them have been overshadowed by different industries today.

Before 1913, there were no vehicles for public use. There wasn't even an interstate highway system in place, nor were there plans to make one.

Seriously, do you honestly think we could have had these advances in public services without an income tax? Federal Reserves are a different story, but an income tax was needed to pay for these public works, and the Fed was born out of need, not out of greed.

For your 4th question about the lvls of global trade before 1913 to today and if they were the same.

No they was not the same but they was very significant for the era it was under, also know airplanes were first being flown in 1903 by the wright brothers.

Yes we could operate possibly better then what we are without a federal reserve.

That's a big accusation. I'm sure you have support for this.

You know, actual events and laws to support these accusations, instead of what you think is happening.

The Fed is very transparent in it's policies, and it would be very easy for you to prove these statements yourself. Show us policies that support your accusations.

I could accuse you of attempting to assassinate the president, but that accusation will get me nowhere without evidence or proof to back it up.

Also, it would help if you quote the question....

When did the first international cargo flight occur again?

yes we could fund all this without the fed.

The fed was born out of need ?! you got to be crazy its first 2 incarnations failed and folks woke up and knew what was wrong, People are waking up now and realizing enough is enough with it, not sure why you haven't , you must love your chains of debt slavery.

i said the wright brothers were testing flights at 1903, we was advancing with technology without a federal reserve, and we most likely would faster without one as well.

The Fed does more than hold the national bank account, don't you know that?

It also regulates the money supply for the nation, along with determining international exchange rates with the US dollar.

Among many other things that are over your head.

Abolishing the Fed will hurt the world trade market, USA especially, more than your perceived benefits.

You are being irrational in your arguments, and yet to show any proof of any of your accusations. You had, what, 4 pages of conjecture and still haven't proven anything.

Are you saying that there were no increases in technology after the Fed started?

Did you know that the Fed loans money to banks, who then loans it to the individuals? Without the Fed loaning the money to banks, the banks would have a very limited ability to loan money to individuals for innovation and R&D.

Also, you seem to fail to realize that nearly all debt is repaid. The only entity that has an outstanding debt with no plans of repayment is the federal government, which is the actual problem. The Fed is not at fault for this, the federal government is.

yes there was plans and we did have beginnings of high ways as well, electrical rail ways were popular back then, and automobiles were very expensive we had roughly 200 miles of paved roads outside of cities in the US at 1900. Jobs were definitely not hard to come by there was plenty of work industrializing the country.

The fault lies within central fractional reserve banking.

Since when is the debt nearly paid off last i checked we was closing in on 18 trillion, and you do know the federal government is backed by the citizens of our great nation right ? so all fo that debt is on our shoulders, yours and mine, not sure how you think your not in debt, if your an american citizen you are in debt.

only time in US history our debt was completely paid off was when Andrew jackson was president, and the only way he did it was by abolishing the federal reserve of his time.

over my head, you just listed most of the responsibility's a Secretary of treasuries job is suppose to be. Our current treasure is just a figure head of what he suppose to do.

lets give him his job back while we put american citizens back to work as well. sounds good to me not sure why your against putting people back to work giving them there jobs back.

abolishing the fed will hurt the world trade market, usa especially? you do not sounds like a hardcore Texan as you led us to believe. The US does not need the world , the world needs the US, we are pioneers Kingnobody when did you lose faith in our great country to grovel to world trade, that does not sound like a texan at all, shame on you brother.

Strange, mass production of automobiles didn't start until 1908, and even then, the sale of automobiles to the general public didn't occur until later (as there wasn't a large demand for it at the time production started).

Are you suggesting that we had a highway system in place prior to 1908? Do you have evidence to support this?

Proof?

You know how to reduce the national deficit, right? It's not the abolishment of the Fed that would do that. It's increasing federal funds through income taxation (gasp! the evil IRS!) and/or decreasing federal spending. Both are on the shoulders of Congress and the President, not the Fed.

You sure that abolishing the federal reserve at that time solved the national debt? Who did the federal government borrow from? Why did they forgive the debt? Or did we pay it off doing something else (like a large purchase of land from a dictator overseas, then selling the land at a very large premium)?

Jack Lew's responsibility is to regulate the income tax code, not to control the international and domestic monetary policy.

Do jobs magically appear out of thin air, or does there have to be an economic force that creates those jobs? What, in your mind, creates jobs? Can you substantiate it with evidence?

Have you noticed a pattern in my questions yet?

How are xenophobic tendencies helpful today? Things change, we cannot produce everything, we don't have the manpower to do so anymore, nor the resources. Along with suppressive regulations that prevent industries to perform at maximum capacity, we just don't have the ability anymore.

To follow up on my last post:

You do realize that nearly all of our industries rely on global trade, both for importing goods and exporting products, to provide for the American public. And not just tangible products, but intangible products too.

Cut those off, go to the regressive xenophobic policies you are suggesting, and we will regress back to the 1900s, when we last had our xenophobic policies.

...wait, I think I figured you out now....

I gave you all the proof and facts , you just chose not to check them out yourself.

I cant believe you called yourself a hardcore Texan, you sound like a conformist, the Texans i know are not conformist and especially do not agree with tax hikes and advocate freedom.

i'll let you have the last word in my opinion i hope you reconsider your glorifying the federal reserve and do more research please.

How? You did not provide any sources to your conjectures. All you gave us is your musings.

Tell you what, quote yourself giving evidence, and I'll point out your errors.

So, when you refuse to provide evidence to back your claims, you start attacking my character.

Good job, you are sounding more like a liberal, which is very unsurprising.

Let me ask you this: have you ever taken an economics class, either macro or micro?