Sorry Conagh you're not the only scottish person here :P
But yes I agree independence is a stupid quest, Personally things are fine the way they are. :)
Scottish Independence (?) |
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Scottish Independence (?)
Sorry Conagh you're not the only scottish person here :P
But yes I agree independence is a stupid quest, Personally things are fine the way they are. :) they voting on this today or tomorrow? what's going on?
Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Quote: As the referendum on Scottish independence approaches, the “Yes” campaign is receiving an unexpected boost – from Russian nationalists. Supporters of the Kremlin’s annexation of Crimea have latched on to Alex Salmond’s bid to leave Britain as a parallel to the struggle of ethnic Russians in Ukraine to break with a supposedly bullying overlord in Kiev. With resentment running high against Britain as a crusader for tough sanctions against Moscow over its patronage of the separatist rebels in Ukraine, blogs in Russia have become flooded with calls for Scottish “freedom”. Much like the Yes campaign appears to be more interested in the symbolic split than the inevitable pragmatic fallout, these Russian supporters really don't give a damn about it, they just see it as a way to spin an event elsewhere on the globe to their own cause. Siren.Mosin said: » they voting on this today or tomorrow? what's going on? Thursday is voting day in the UK.
Cerberus.Tidis said: » Thursday is voting day in the UK. Any thoughts from across the pond? Caitsith.Zahrah said: » Cerberus.Tidis said: » Thursday is voting day in the UK. Any thoughts from across the pond? If I could vote it would be a No vote, but as I can't I'll just sit and watch. Well just today Cameron said that even if the 'no' wins they're willing to give Scotland more autonomy(among some other passive-aggressive statements). And secessionists are enraged cause this diminishes the power of chosing yes.
Caitsith.Zahrah said: » Cerberus.Tidis said: » Thursday is voting day in the UK. Any thoughts from across the pond? It's a bit ironic that the same arguments will be repeated in a few years with a swap of roles when it comes to the Brittish - EU referendum. The Scots are a contentious bunch.
Fenrir.Atheryn said: » I believe that every person has the right to be a member of an independent nation, to have sovereignty, to live in peace and to enjoy equality Valefor.Sehachan said: » Well just today Cameron said that even if the 'no' wins they're willing to give Scotland more autonomy(among some other passive-aggressive statements). And secessionists are enraged cause this diminishes the power of chosing yes. This was the idea. Caitsith.Zahrah said: » Cerberus.Tidis said: » Thursday is voting day in the UK. Any thoughts from across the pond? I certainly don't understand the complexities of what's going on, but if they're set on independence, I would think something like a multi-year phase out plan might make the transition easier. They could take over responsibilities in smaller chunks until they achieve full secession by a given date. Offline
Posts: 4027
Scotland should form a union with Ireland.
One look at famous Scots of Irish origins (Irish-Scots) and the potential is clear: Famous Irish-Scots: 1. Sean Connery 2. Gerard Butler 3. Bill Connolly 4. Frankie" Boyle That and there would be no English in the new union. Just imagine that :) What say you scots, a union by the Children of MacMurrough and The Bruce? You also owe us a debt, we did save Braveheart Proof The English openly mock you scots on their national media Proof on a more serious note, England stands to loose much more than Scotland should the leave the union. I don't know too much about the political situation surrounding this other than the fact that a more liberal Scotland is not feeling represented in Parliament which is sided toward the more conservative southern Britain. If Scotland does become independent, does the SNP have any solid policies in mind?
We had 2 referendums in Québec (1980 and 1995) about independence, first ended 60% no agaisnt 40% yes, the second ended 51% versus 49% yes.
Thing is... I'm not an expert either at the Scottish situation, but as far as I'm concerned, even tho quebeckers are a lot different from the rest of the canadian residents (aka language, for a start, we have our own civil laws, education system etc) I still think my province isn't ready to make a move towards independence, it is a huge step to take and people needs to vote with their head too. That being said, I wish them luck, and hope they won't end up like we did, torn apart from inside and forever separated in 2 groups of independentists and loyalists. I live in Scotland and will be voting yes. The current system is completely broken.
In my lifetime Scotland has had no impact on a general election. Meaning the government the majority of England votes for its what controls the UK Although Scotland has a devolved government. Westminster has the power to take powers away from us without our say. The currency issue doesnt bother me one bit, is happily use euros to live in a democratic society. And Scotland is not reliant on oil it is 15% of gdp. Norways is something like 30% and you wouldn't say they are successful. We also would have more oil but Westminster moved the maritime border in the 90s essentially giving England 6000 square miles of the North Sea, Offline
Posts: 8
You're so *** if the yes vote goes through you ain't even thinking this through properly.
Bahamut.Loch said: » happily use euros to live in a democratic society. Valefor.Sehachan said: » Bahamut.Loch said: » happily use euros to live in a democratic society. Was just an example, the truth is we don't know for sure what we would use, Westminster refused to pre negotiate terms before the vote, and even after there are still 18 months of negotiations before independence would actually happen. The smaller a nation, the more impact the average citizen has on its policies, the less wealth disparity there is, the better off everyone is.
Let's go back to live in independent villages!
Bahamut.Loch said: » Valefor.Sehachan said: » Bahamut.Loch said: » happily use euros to live in a democratic society. Was just an example, the truth is we don't know for sure what we would use, Westminster refused to pre negotiate terms before the vote, and even after there are still 18 months of negotiations before independence would actually happen. There's a lot of reasons for and against Scottish independence, but ultimately the entire UK is suffering under the mismanagement of an inept, unelected government. Scotland could be free from that if they choose to.
It's all well and good citing a load of commercial and political disadvantages, but the results of poor government policy are what are really, immediately felt by the public. If it were me, I'd vote for independence. Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: » The smaller a nation, the more impact the average citizen has on its policies, the less wealth disparity there is, the better off everyone is. Scotland wants to immediately join the EU and NATO, but what are they bringing to the table? Scotland will have to: 1. Figure what they are using for currency. 1a. If they use the pound they will probably have to do what Hong Kong does and keep 100%+ GDP in reserve. Opportunity cost. 1b. The EU has stated that the euro is not an option at this time 1c. Create a currency and base it on a basket of other currencies or some type of mixed basket, which will create different problems 2. Negotiate trade treaties to countries it regulary exports to and imports from. They will be starting from a lower bargaining posistion. 3. Legal system: SNP wants to change current tax rates and tax flow. That doesn't happen over night 4. How will the oil reserve be split? 5. How will the debt work out from the 2008 crisis? 6. Military bases and soliders. SNP was talking about using UK soliders to fulfill one of the requirements for NATO membership. They also want all nuclear weapons gone. Yes, other NATO countries don't host weapons, but what is Scotland going to be giving NATO in return for not doing this? 7. Businesses do not like uncertainity. Many have already said they will be moving headquaters South. Supermarkets and other stores have said prices will increase. Currently they spread costs across the UK, that will not continue if it splits. And rightly so, there will be different laws, currencies(?), taxes, etc in place I've read the economic portion of the white paper SNP put out. There is a lot of "good feels" but not a lot of concrete plans. They say there will have to be voting after a "yes" occurs on how scotland moves forward based on plans submitted. That sounds great, very democratic. However, in realty, that means a lot of uncertainity for the forseeable future. Bahamut.Kara said: » There is a lot of "good feels" but not a lot of concrete plans Never fear the unknown, embrace it!
Well like I said, there's the circumstances of future independence versus the present day circumstances of the coalition government's rule.
Bedroom tax, benefit caps, one of the lowest minimum wages in Europe, an increasingly privatised NHS and education system. They'll need to find money to subsidise their free universities and NHS prescriptions, but they may find that's balanced when their economy isn't being wider distributed. Don't forget to only accept Renminbi, Rubles, or gold for oil as it's the trendy thing to do.
Even Saudi Arabia is considering the switch. Saudi's are on the verge of joining Russia in non-dollar oil sales Bismarck.Bloodbeat said: » Well like I said, there's the circumstances of future independence versus the present day circumstances of the coalition government's rule. Bedroom tax, benefit caps, one of the lowest minimum wages in Europe, an increasingly privatised NHS and education system. They'll need to find money to subsidise their free universities and NHS prescriptions, but they may find that's balanced when their economy isn't being wider distributed. Really? I did a quick google, and it seems to be on the high side whether it was euro/month or PPS. (source) They'll also need to find money to fund the lower taxations, encourage businesses to come and invests in scotland (the youngsters left for a reason, and independence doesn't immediately make them come back - jobs doesn't get created overnight). The Barnett formula is still favouring Scotland over the rest of the UK. Unless Scotland makes the big ratio of the income of UK (which I doubt they do, but I can't be bothered to google it right now), they will probably end up with less money per head than they do right now. Independence right now is silly. Go for devo-max, utilise that pocket money england is giving you to strengthen Scotland as a nation and try again in a few years is a much better solution. |
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