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California Banning Plastic Bags
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
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By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2014-09-01 09:34:31
I find that conservatives have this tendency to find the most batshit insane arguments put forth by their opposition, and apply it across the board. (While decrying others doing the same of course, trademark double standard)
I've personally never heard anything about the Pacific Garbage Patch other than that it A) Exists B) Has a lot of garbage spread across a larger area, therefore the trash density is very low and C)Plastic entering the food chain is bad.
Kinda the same thing with Glurble Wherming. I didn't start hearing all the really crazy ***about it until I saw it put up by people like Altimaomega as "clearly what everyone on the other side believes." My personal sources only ever said A) Global temperatures are Rising. B) Humans are at least partly responsible for accelerating the process. C) It's not an existential threat, but it is a stability threat. D) Even if it turns out to not be something we can intervene in [Natural cycle or acting too late] it's in our best interest to understand the process to mitigate the potential damage, much like we do with any other natural disaster.
And then Alti Comes in with "Manbearpig" stuff saying the world will stop rotating, lose it's magnetic core and turn into Venus + Mars at the same time. Arguments I've never heard put forward in any academic circle. You are describing a straw man argument while doing the same things you accuse others of doing. Also, lol @ "academic circles", as if...
Next time you accuse conservatives of extrapolating stupidity of some liberals to all liberals, please remember that that is the entire lifeblood of the Democrats. For reference, see Trayvon Martin, Bill Maher's anti-religious butthurtedness, most depictions of the South, etc. Glass houses, bro. Glass houses.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-01 09:53:59
By Jetackuu 2014-09-01 10:06:43
It sounds like your communities as a whole need work, not what bags your grocer uses.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-09-01 10:22:18
I find that conservatives have this tendency to find the most batshit insane arguments put forth by their opposition, and apply it across the board. (While decrying others doing the same of course, trademark double standard)
I've personally never heard anything about the Pacific Garbage Patch other than that it A) Exists B) Has a lot of garbage spread across a larger area, therefore the trash density is very low and C)Plastic entering the food chain is bad.
Kinda the same thing with Glurble Wherming. I didn't start hearing all the really crazy ***about it until I saw it put up by people like Altimaomega as "clearly what everyone on the other side believes." My personal sources only ever said A) Global temperatures are Rising. B) Humans are at least partly responsible for accelerating the process. C) It's not an existential threat, but it is a stability threat. D) Even if it turns out to not be something we can intervene in [Natural cycle or acting too late] it's in our best interest to understand the process to mitigate the potential damage, much like we do with any other natural disaster.
And then Alti Comes in with "Manbearpig" stuff saying the world will stop rotating, lose it's magnetic core and turn into Venus + Mars at the same time. Arguments I've never heard put forward in any academic circle. Strange, I could replace "conservatives" with "liberals" and "Altimaomega" with "Pleebo" and make nearly the same post.
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Leviathan.Syagin
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By Leviathan.Syagin 2014-09-01 11:23:20
I always reuse my grocery bags as garbage bags 3 likes already.
I'd like to emphasize that I am still an ***. Couldn't give 2 shits about the environment. I just like free trash bags
Yeah not caring about the enviorment until that *** has to pay for clean oxcygen, i'd have you revist your current statement at that time.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-01 11:27:57
I find that conservatives have this tendency to find the most batshit insane arguments put forth by their opposition, and apply it across the board. (While decrying others doing the same of course, trademark double standard)
I've personally never heard anything about the Pacific Garbage Patch other than that it A) Exists B) Has a lot of garbage spread across a larger area, therefore the trash density is very low and C)Plastic entering the food chain is bad.
Kinda the same thing with Glurble Wherming. I didn't start hearing all the really crazy ***about it until I saw it put up by people like Altimaomega as "clearly what everyone on the other side believes." My personal sources only ever said A) Global temperatures are Rising. B) Humans are at least partly responsible for accelerating the process. C) It's not an existential threat, but it is a stability threat. D) Even if it turns out to not be something we can intervene in [Natural cycle or acting too late] it's in our best interest to understand the process to mitigate the potential damage, much like we do with any other natural disaster.
And then Alti Comes in with "Manbearpig" stuff saying the world will stop rotating, lose it's magnetic core and turn into Venus + Mars at the same time. Arguments I've never heard put forward in any academic circle. Strange, I could replace "conservatives" with "liberals" and "Altimaomega" with "Pleebo" and make nearly the same post.
The liberal batshit crowd are far less public and far less outspoken. It's hard to take a highly corrupt politician seriously, it's harder to attack the credulity of a guy living in a tree and eating pinecones.
By fonewear 2014-09-01 11:37:15
I think we should ban COD it causes the rest of us gamers too look bad. It might also be bad for the environment also.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-09-01 11:45:57
The "devoid of substance" straw man is early tonight. First off banning the bags will not stop them from ending up in the ocean. So in a way, it's pretty pointless for CA to ban them. Bag bans have greatly reduced their use in those cities where it's been implemented. Less bags = less bag pollution. It's not a difficult concept.
The other thing you typed isn't even worth a response. Aw, the feels are hurt.
Right! That works great when we apply the same logic to drugs...
Technically your "myth" is still fact, all of that plastic is killing animals.
You didn't really read the article. It says pretty definitively that we can't really tell if the plastic is killing wildlife or not. Birds and fish eat the stuff, but we don't really know that they die from it's ingestion. But the point's irrelevant, so what if it kills animals? I kill animals everyday, I hit animals on the highway driving sometimes, I eat meat, and if I ever catch that rabbit ripping up my garden I'll kill him too. Killing animals isn't bad.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-01 11:46:42
Honestly, the yearly rehash AAA shooters make all gamers look bad, so does the WoW crowd.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-09-01 11:50:42
So whats the negative to banning plastic bags, or is nausi just crying to cry, as usual?
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-09-01 11:53:15
I find that conservatives have this tendency to find the most batshit insane arguments put forth by their opposition, and apply it across the board. (While decrying others doing the same of course, trademark double standard)
I've personally never heard anything about the Pacific Garbage Patch other than that it A) Exists B) Has a lot of garbage spread across a larger area, therefore the trash density is very low and C)Plastic entering the food chain is bad.
Kinda the same thing with Glurble Wherming. I didn't start hearing all the really crazy ***about it until I saw it put up by people like Altimaomega as "clearly what everyone on the other side believes." My personal sources only ever said A) Global temperatures are Rising. B) Humans are at least partly responsible for accelerating the process. C) It's not an existential threat, but it is a stability threat. D) Even if it turns out to not be something we can intervene in [Natural cycle or acting too late] it's in our best interest to understand the process to mitigate the potential damage, much like we do with any other natural disaster.
And then Alti Comes in with "Manbearpig" stuff saying the world will stop rotating, lose it's magnetic core and turn into Venus + Mars at the same time. Arguments I've never heard put forward in any academic circle. Strange, I could replace "conservatives" with "liberals" and "Altimaomega" with "Pleebo" and make nearly the same post.
I get what your intent is, but that post isn't as internally consistent as you think it is, as Altimaomega isn't mentioned in the first paragraph. You're basically saying that Pleebo would be anti-environment.
C- for effort though, but leave the wit to the witty in the future.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-01 11:55:14
So whats the negative to banning plastic bags, or is nausi just crying to cry, as usual?
Jerbs? Don't tread on me? Really, it's government banning a product that isn't inherently dangerous simply because people misuse them. It would be like banning soda cans because some people don't recycle them. It's funny that banning plastic is so well received by the public, considering the possible outrage of the same action on other products with similar liabilities.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-01 11:57:15
It'd be like banning guns because people misuse them, or cars, or hammers, or cardboard, or just about anything.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-01 12:02:28
It'd be like banning guns because people misuse them, or cars, or hammers, or cardboard, or just about anything.
I'd leave guns and cars out of the list, they have a destructive power that is completely unlike plastic bags or hammers. But, you can always make the argument, with varying degrees of success, that if people can't be trusted to be responsible, they should not have those things. The only difference is the scale, which is obviously different.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-01 12:03:02
It'd be like banning guns because people misuse them, or cars, or hammers, or cardboard, or just about anything.
I'd leave guns and cars out of the list, they have a destructive power that is completely unlike plastic bags or hammers. But, you can always make the argument, with varying degrees of success, that if people can't be trusted to be responsible, they should not have those things. The only difference is the scale, which is obviously different.
Just because people misuse them differently, it's irrelevant to the point you made.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-09-01 12:04:10
It'd be like banning guns because people misuse them, or cars, or hammers, or cardboard, or just about anything.
I'd leave guns and cars out of the list, they have a destructive power that is completely unlike plastic bags or hammers. But, you can always make the argument, with varying degrees of success, that if people can't be trusted to be responsible, they should not have those things. The only difference is the scale, which is obviously different.
It's the overall statist attitude. People cannot be trusted with the freedom to make their own choices, so we must make their choices for them.
Reprehensibly offensive.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-09-01 12:06:04
So hurt feelings, thats it? lawl.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-09-01 12:07:53
It's not really even an issue of misuse. Single-use bags are designed for just that - be used once and be thrown away. The fact that some people reuse a minority of the bags for things like garbage liners doesn't negate the fact that they're made to go right in the trash. They get tossed out en masse, recycling centers don't want them, and they can inevitably end up where they don't belong due to the nature of the material.
You didn't really read the article. It says pretty definitively that we can't really tell if the plastic is killing wildlife or not. Birds and fish eat the stuff, but we don't really know that they die from it's ingestion. But the point's irrelevant, so what if it kills animals? I kill animals everyday, I hit animals on the highway driving sometimes, I eat meat, and if I ever catch that rabbit ripping up my garden I'll kill him too. Killing animals isn't bad. ... really?
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-09-01 12:08:07
So hurt feelings, thats it? lawl. You're comments are always good for a laugh Vic. Thanks for that!
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-01 12:08:46
It'd be like banning guns because people misuse them, or cars, or hammers, or cardboard, or just about anything.
I'd leave guns and cars out of the list, they have a destructive power that is completely unlike plastic bags or hammers. But, you can always make the argument, with varying degrees of success, that if people can't be trusted to be responsible, they should not have those things. The only difference is the scale, which is obviously different.
Just because people misuse them differently, it's irrelevant to the point you made.
I'm not getting into another gun debate, a truck or a gun has far more destructive power than a friggin soda can.
It'd be like banning guns because people misuse them, or cars, or hammers, or cardboard, or just about anything.
I'd leave guns and cars out of the list, they have a destructive power that is completely unlike plastic bags or hammers. But, you can always make the argument, with varying degrees of success, that if people can't be trusted to be responsible, they should not have those things. The only difference is the scale, which is obviously different.
It's the overall statist attitude. People cannot be trusted with the freedom to make their own choices, so we must make their choices for them.
Reprehensibly offensive.
In this case, those people's choice amounts to killing fish and plants in international waters and possibly polluting the shores of other countries. I'm not saying it's right, it's just different.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-01 12:10:29
It'd be like banning guns because people misuse them, or cars, or hammers, or cardboard, or just about anything.
I'd leave guns and cars out of the list, they have a destructive power that is completely unlike plastic bags or hammers. But, you can always make the argument, with varying degrees of success, that if people can't be trusted to be responsible, they should not have those things. The only difference is the scale, which is obviously different.
Just because people misuse them differently, it's irrelevant to the point you made.
I'm not getting into another gun debate, a truck or a gun has far more destructive power than a friggin soda can.
Yet it's irrelevant to your premise, therefore moot.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-01 12:11:42
It's not really even an issue of misuse. Single-use bags are designed for just that - be used once and be thrown away. The fact that some people reuse a minority of the bags for things like garbage liners doesn't negate the fact that they're made to go right in the trash. They get tossed out en masse, recycling centers don't want them, and they can inevitably end up where they don't belong due to the nature of the material. A lot of the stores around here encourage you to recycle them, and have bins set up for you to drop them off. Again: misuse.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-09-01 12:12:34
So hurt feelings, thats it? lawl. You're comments are always good for a laugh Vic. Thanks for that!
No problem, being right comes easy. You have yet to list a single negative other than your fake outrage. Keep crying tho.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-09-01 12:12:34
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »I find that conservatives have this tendency to find the most batshit insane arguments put forth by their opposition, and apply it across the board. (While decrying others doing the same of course, trademark double standard)
I've personally never heard anything about the Pacific Garbage Patch other than that it A) Exists B) Has a lot of garbage spread across a larger area, therefore the trash density is very low and C)Plastic entering the food chain is bad.
Kinda the same thing with Glurble Wherming. I didn't start hearing all the really crazy ***about it until I saw it put up by people like Altimaomega as "clearly what everyone on the other side believes." My personal sources only ever said A) Global temperatures are Rising. B) Humans are at least partly responsible for accelerating the process. C) It's not an existential threat, but it is a stability threat. D) Even if it turns out to not be something we can intervene in [Natural cycle or acting too late] it's in our best interest to understand the process to mitigate the potential damage, much like we do with any other natural disaster.
And then Alti Comes in with "Manbearpig" stuff saying the world will stop rotating, lose it's magnetic core and turn into Venus + Mars at the same time. Arguments I've never heard put forward in any academic circle. You are describing a straw man argument while doing the same things you accuse others of doing. Also, lol @ "academic circles", as if...
Next time you accuse conservatives of extrapolating stupidity of some liberals to all liberals, please remember that that is the entire lifeblood of the Democrats. For reference, see Trayvon Martin, Bill Maher's anti-religious butthurtedness, most depictions of the South, etc. Glass houses, bro. Glass houses.
To be fair, it's not what you throw, it's the mass and velocity. I can throw a stone in a glass house with low velocity, and leave the structure intact.
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: » Also, lol @ "academic circles", as if...
That's just bad taste, but thankfully I know you're just projecting your own inadequacies.
The liberal batshit crowd are far less public and far less outspoken. It's hard to take a highly corrupt politician seriously, it's harder to attack the credulity of a guy living in a tree and eating pinecones.
That's probably just an artificial bias. If for example, you exclusively watched Sarah Palin's youtube channel, aside from being braindead, you'd also think the average Liberal Opinion was everyone should turn homosexual to control the pet population.
It's a little irritating to see people say I don't criticize liberal perspectives either, I've been very consistent in showing that my biggest criticism of liberals has always been the feigned compassion the show. It's probably what garners them so much support. It's very insidious and only obfuscates the fact that they're as crooked as your garden-variety Conservative.
But this just illustrates the point that people only read up to the very moment they validate their own beliefs.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-01 12:20:54
It'd be like banning guns because people misuse them, or cars, or hammers, or cardboard, or just about anything.
I'd leave guns and cars out of the list, they have a destructive power that is completely unlike plastic bags or hammers. But, you can always make the argument, with varying degrees of success, that if people can't be trusted to be responsible, they should not have those things. The only difference is the scale, which is obviously different.
Just because people misuse them differently, it's irrelevant to the point you made.
I'm not getting into another gun debate, a truck or a gun has far more destructive power than a friggin soda can.
Yet it's irrelevant to your premise, therefore moot.
What makes it irrelevant? People misuse all kinds of things, regulation is entirely based on the scale of impact, it's integral to the discussion. I haven't really expressed an opinion, so I don't know what premise you're referring to.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-01 12:22:46
What makes it irrelevant? People misuse all kinds of things, regulation is entirely based on the scale of impact, it's integral to the discussion. I haven't really expressed an opinion, so I don't know what premise you're referring to.
It's irrelevant because it is, very rarely are things banned because of their actual impact but more of a perceived one.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-09-01 12:25:56
What makes it irrelevant? People misuse all kinds of things, regulation is entirely based on the scale of impact, it's integral to the discussion. I haven't really expressed an opinion, so I don't know what premise you're referring to.
It's irrelevant because it is, very rarely are things banned because of their actual impact but more of a perceived one.
But we're not talking about perception, we're talking about reality, plastic bags make up a measurable portion of land and sea pollution and cause very little inconvenience comparatively. It's why I said that other things that are likely as harmful would meet a different reception. You're basically saying the same thing I said.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-09-01 12:26:13
It's not really even an issue of misuse. Single-use bags are designed for just that - be used once and be thrown away. The fact that some people reuse a minority of the bags for things like garbage liners doesn't negate the fact that they're made to go right in the trash. They get tossed out en masse, recycling centers don't want them, and they can inevitably end up where they don't belong due to the nature of the material. A lot of the stores around here encourage you to recycle them, and have bins set up for you to drop them off. Again: misuse. This doesn't even make a difference to the argument. If plastic bag waste can be attributed to a specific type of pollution, then it doesn't matter the intent of the use or misuse. Lead was undoubtedly misused when it was utilized in places where it inevitably leaked out into the environment.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-01 12:26:45
What makes it irrelevant? People misuse all kinds of things, regulation is entirely based on the scale of impact, it's integral to the discussion. I haven't really expressed an opinion, so I don't know what premise you're referring to.
It's irrelevant because it is, very rarely are things banned because of their actual impact but more of a perceived one.
But we're not talking about perception, we're talking about reality, plastic bags make up a measurable portion of land and sea pollution and cause very little inconvenience comparatively. It's why I said that other things that are likely as harmful would meet a different reception. You're basically saying the same thing I said.
I'm apparently not, because what I said just went entirely over your head.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-01 12:27:08
It's not really even an issue of misuse. Single-use bags are designed for just that - be used once and be thrown away. The fact that some people reuse a minority of the bags for things like garbage liners doesn't negate the fact that they're made to go right in the trash. They get tossed out en masse, recycling centers don't want them, and they can inevitably end up where they don't belong due to the nature of the material. A lot of the stores around here encourage you to recycle them, and have bins set up for you to drop them off. Again: misuse. This doesn't even make a difference to the argument. If plastic bag waste can be attributed to a specific type of pollution, then it doesn't matter the intent of the use or misuse. Lead was undoubtedly misused when it was utilized in places where it inevitably leaked out into the environment. It makes all the difference: actually.
Quote: California passes plastic bag ban, would be first such law in U.S.
SACRAMENTO Calif. (Reuters) - The California state legislature enacted a ban on plastic grocery bags on Friday near the end of its two-year session, a measure that if signed into law would become the first of its kind in America.
A number of cities and counties in California and other U.S. states, including Hawaii's Maui County, have made it illegal for grocery stores to pack purchases in plastic. But at the state level, opposition from plastic bag makers has usually prevailed.
The California Senate voted 22-15 for the bill, which must be signed into law by Sept. 30 by Democratic Governor Jerry Brown, who has not signaled a position on the measure.
"Single-use plastic bags not only litter our beaches, but also our mountains, our deserts, and our rivers, streams and lakes," said state Senator Alex Padilla, who sponsored the bill.
Padilla backed a similar measure last year but it failed by three votes. The fate of this bill was uncertain until the waning hours of the session after falling three votes short in the state's Assembly on Monday.
But after picking up the support of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union, the bill passed a second vote in the Assembly.
The measure would ban grocery stores from handing out single-use grocery bags with customers' purchases, and provide money to local plastic bag companies to retool to make heavier, multiple-use bags that customers could buy.
Environmentalists have pushed for banning plastic bags, which are cheaper for supermarkets to use than paper bags, but create mountains of trash that is difficult to recycle. In California, there is particular concern that the bags, when swept out to sea, could harm ocean life.
After the defeat of his earlier bill, Padilla won the support of some California-based bag makers by including the funding for retooling. But in recent months, out-of-state manufacturers campaigned against the bill, even producing television advertisements targeting Padilla, who is running for secretary of state.
Cathy Browne, general manager at Crown Poly, a plastic bag manufacturer in Huntington Park, California, said the bill would lead to layoffs at companies like hers.
More than 10 billion plastic bags are used in California each year, according to an estimate by Californians Against Waste, an advocacy group supporting the bill.
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