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Please sign in to Stop genocide in palestine
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-31 10:35:21
@ Ramyrez: people don't need to have a religion to kill each other. Most war in the world aren't religious but are for money.
Yeah, well.
Those are terrible too.
But at least money/resources are physical goods with real-world applications.
Unless you can't live without money/resources, it's actually less of a motivation than religion.
...you can live without religion. And live happily too. Atheist and don't-give-a-flying-***about it.
But they're not atheist, so Ramyrez's argument is invalid. If religion never existed, would this world have changed much?
Probably not, since we find any reason to kill each other, and religion is the usual scapegoat used to kill another.
Oh, the world would be drastically different without religion. But given how long its gone on it's impossible to hypothesize how, exactly. Well, if you are going to use the Butterfly Effect, then you are 100% correct.
Edit: paged! Time for some butterflies!
 Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-31 10:35:39
@ Ramyrez: people don't need to have a religion to kill each other. Most war in the world aren't religious but are for money.
Yeah, well.
Those are terrible too.
But at least money/resources are physical goods with real-world applications.
Unless you can't live without money/resources, it's actually less of a motivation than religion.
...you can live without religion.
Can't go to heaven without religion :(
You're just trolling me now. (/w\)
Well, it's trolling but that pointed out the fundamental difference between a religious person and an atheist. "You can live without religion, thus you can ditch it" isn't even a legit argument unless they're all atheist.
 Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-31 10:37:46
Oh, the world would be drastically different without religion. But given how long its gone on it's impossible to hypothesize how, exactly. You could never have a world without religion as it stems from a strong holding onto a phylosophy that relates to beginning and end of life.
Say, if tomorrow it was proven without fault that there is no superior entity in the universe, but however ghosts exist, you'd have a religion of people worshipping ghosts similar to the temples in Japan.
If you proved there was no God and that when we die we all return to a giant jelly where we become one, then everyone would be worshipping the great jelly matrix of life.
And so on.
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By Blazed1979 2014-07-31 10:37:51
still no source on Hamas using civilians as human shields.
still no source on epic 1,400 year million jew kill count for muslims.
I'll be back in a few hours. Maybe by then you would have found something.
 Asura.Ccl
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1995
By Asura.Ccl 2014-07-31 10:41:26
still no source on Hamas using civilians as human shields.
still no source on epic 1,400 year million jew kill count for muslims.
I'll be back in a few hours. Maybe by then you would have found something.
here are source of the opposite but apparently the UN report aren't reliable source in North America :(
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/survivors-massacre-palestinians.html
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/falsely-associating-judaism-zionism-uses-jews-everywhere-human-shields.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-report-accuses-israeli-forces-of-using-palestinian-children-as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/
Funny how the UN report say Israel use palestinian as human shield and that there are no proof that the hamas ever did.
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-31 10:41:28
Oh, the world would be drastically different without religion. But given how long its gone on it's impossible to hypothesize how, exactly. You could never have a world without religion as it stems from a strong holding onto a phylosophy that relates to beginning and end of life.
Say, if tomorrow it was proven without fault that there is no superior entity in the universe, but however ghosts exist, you'd have a religion of people worshipping ghosts similar to the temples in Japan.
If you proved there was no God and that when we die we all return to a giant jelly where we become one, then everyone would be worshipping the great jelly matrix of life.
And so on.
So basically you're postulating that people need some system of worship or higher power in place.
*sigh*
I don't know that I agree, but given the minority position of atheists around the globe and through the bulk of history, I have little way of proving you incorrect.
Thank you for the most depressing thought I'll have today. As if I needed that.
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-31 10:44:20
Oh, the world would be drastically different without religion. But given how long its gone on it's impossible to hypothesize how, exactly. You could never have a world without religion as it stems from a strong holding onto a phylosophy that relates to beginning and end of life.
Say, if tomorrow it was proven without fault that there is no superior entity in the universe, but however ghosts exist, you'd have a religion of people worshipping ghosts similar to the temples in Japan.
If you proved there was no God and that when we die we all return to a giant jelly where we become one, then everyone would be worshipping the great jelly matrix of life.
And so on.
So basically you're postulating that people need some system of worship or higher power in place.
*sigh*
I don't know that I agree, but given the minority position of atheists around the globe and through the bulk of history, I have little way of proving you incorrect.
Thank you for the most depressing thought I'll have today. As if I needed that.
Serious question:
Why is it that "depressing" that other ppl is not the same as you?
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-31 10:44:39
Religion is a consequence not a need.
In everything you have apathetic people, distracted-uninterested people, attentive-detached people, passionate people, and fanatics.
Religion starts at passionate and goes all the way to fanatic.
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-31 10:49:32
Oh, the world would be drastically different without religion. But given how long its gone on it's impossible to hypothesize how, exactly. You could never have a world without religion as it stems from a strong holding onto a phylosophy that relates to beginning and end of life.
Say, if tomorrow it was proven without fault that there is no superior entity in the universe, but however ghosts exist, you'd have a religion of people worshipping ghosts similar to the temples in Japan.
If you proved there was no God and that when we die we all return to a giant jelly where we become one, then everyone would be worshipping the great jelly matrix of life.
And so on.
So basically you're postulating that people need some system of worship or higher power in place.
*sigh*
I don't know that I agree, but given the minority position of atheists around the globe and through the bulk of history, I have little way of proving you incorrect.
Thank you for the most depressing thought I'll have today. As if I needed that.
Serious question:
Why is it that "depressing" that other ppl is not the same as you?
It's not depressing that they're "not the same as me". Different cultures, interests, music, activities, jobs, clothing, etc. All of that is amazing. Our differences as a human race are beautiful.
Show me a religion on this Earth that isn't exclusionary, though. Show me a religion that doesn't judge others for being different. Show me a religion that doesn't demean people based on gender, sexual orientation, color, birthplace, or other religion.
And that's just scratching the surface of my beef with religion.
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
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Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-31 10:50:55
Religion is a consequence not a need.
In everything you have apathetic people, distracted-uninterested people, attentive-detached people, passionate people, and fanatics.
Religion starts at passionate and goes all the way to fanatic.
I still believe religion is part of human nature, even though atheist exist.
Seha's idea of "if tomorrow it was proven without fault that there is no superior entity in the universe" really scared me, I can't imagine how our world would be like if the concept of superior entity/after life is gone completely.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-31 10:51:21
The Chinese are God's chosen people anyway, point is moot.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-31 10:52:32
Oh I did give alternatives for afterlife, I said ghosts and master jelly.
I am afraid of nothingness which is why I still hold onto my own belief, though I just aim for the most plausible existing atm rather than any of what religions have to offer.
By Afania 2014-07-31 10:55:57
Show me a religion on this Earth that isn't exclusionary, though. Show me a religion that doesn't judge others for being different. Show me a religion that doesn't demean people based on gender, sexual orientation, color, birthplace, or other religion.
And that's just scratching the surface of my beef with religion.
I'm not sure if I can find a religion on earth that isn't "exclusionary", however some religion with more than 1 god may not be as exclusive when more than 1 god can co-exist.
There are religions that doesn't judge others for being different(in fact it's advocating everyone is equal), and there are religion that doesn't demean people based on gender/sexual orientation/color/birthplace or other religion.
This world isn't Christianity/Islam/Judaism only.
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-31 10:57:40
Oh I did give alternatives for afterlife, I said ghosts and master jelly.
I am afraid of nothingness which is why I still hold onto my own belief, though I just aim for the most plausible existing atm rather than any of what religions have to offer.
I think the fact that human are afraid of death is one major reason why religion exist as well ._.
[+]
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-31 10:58:16
Like I said many moons ago, introduce Taoism to the middle east. Problem solved.
By Afania 2014-07-31 11:00:35
The Chinese are God's chosen people anyway, point is moot.
That's not fair, I need some love from god as well :(
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-07-31 11:01:19
I'll be back in a few hours. Maybe by then you would have found something.
I found your head. But unfortunately it's buried so deeply inside your own *** we've given up any hope of ever recovering it...
perhaps some day in the distant future archaeologists will posses the necessary technology to remove it.
Server: Asura
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-31 11:07:04
Like I said many moons ago, introduce Taoism Spaghetti Monster to the middle east. Problem solved. If the monster doesn't solve things, the religion would.
All hail Spaghetti Monster and all the hentai it portrays!
[+]
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-31 11:07:25
Show me a religion on this Earth that isn't exclusionary, though. Show me a religion that doesn't judge others for being different. Show me a religion that doesn't demean people based on gender, sexual orientation, color, birthplace, or other religion.
And that's just scratching the surface of my beef with religion.
I'm not sure if I can find a religion on earth that isn't "exclusionary", however some religion with more than 1 god may not be as exclusive when more than 1 god can co-exist.
There are religions that doesn't judge others for being different(in fact it's advocating everyone is equal), and there are religion that doesn't demean people based on gender/sexual orientation/color/birthplace or other religion.
This world isn't Christianity/Islam/Judaism only.
The problem with pantheistic religions or other religions out of the mainstream is that they strain credulity further still than the above-named "big" religions. Much like Christianity, there is often a lot to like in them, but once they start getting into the supernatural element they're just...ridiculous.
By Blazed1979 2014-07-31 11:07:51
Still no source?
Sorry if I'm putting you on the spot. You did claim to justify the killing of the palestinans based on them using civilians as human shields to gain the high moral ground. I'll stop asking for a source if you admit you don't have one.
But I'm still waiting on the "muslims killed millions upon millions of jews for 1,400 years" source.
Kinda hard to let go of reality without thought and perecption altering drugs.
Server: Asura
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Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-31 11:08:49
Well, sources have been provided already, but you wouldn't like them because they are automatically biased for not praising Allah for the greatness s/he is.
Also requires you to read the thread that you already read.
[+]
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-31 11:09:01
Few hours went by very fast.
[+]
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-31 11:09:17
I'll be back in a few hours. Maybe by then you would have found something.
I found your head. But unfortunately it's buried so deeply inside your own *** we've given up any hope of ever recovering it...
perhaps some day in the distant future archaeologists will posses the necessary technology to remove it.
[+]
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-31 11:10:22
The Chinese are God's chosen people anyway, point is moot.
That's not fair, I need some love from god as well :( God does not love nor hate. You need living beings for those types of feelings.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-31 11:12:14
but once they start getting into the supernatural element they're just...ridiculous. It's not so easy to dismiss supernatural, but I'll leave at that cause I don't wanna derail further.
By Blazed1979 2014-07-31 11:12:58
I asked for sources, not insults. How is this hard for you?
If I ask for quick come-backs and insults, will you then provide your sources?
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-31 11:13:00
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-31 11:14:24
but once they start getting into the supernatural element they're just...ridiculous. It's not so easy to dismiss supernatural, but I'll leave at that cause I don't wanna derail further. Yeah it is. That show sucks, plain and simple.
Ragnarok.Afania
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2822
By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-07-31 11:15:19
The Chinese are God's chosen people anyway, point is moot.
That's not fair, I need some love from god as well :( . You need living beings for those types of feelings.
That's contradiction!
By Blazed1979 2014-07-31 11:17:07
The Chinese are God's chosen people anyway, point is moot.
That's not fair, I need some love from god as well :( . You need living beings for those types of feelings.
That's contradiction! at the very least its a contradiction. More likely evidence of inability for rational, coherent thought.
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