7 Dead Babies Found

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7 dead babies found
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 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-14 17:45:32
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karusanyoshi said: »
Do I think money should go to help babies in crappy situations/broken families/drug saturated environments (I believe this was your original question)? Of course.

karusanyoshi said: »
But you can't make something as complicated as this into a simple 'yes' or 'no' response.

Just sayin'
 
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By 2014-04-14 17:51:45
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-14 17:52:05
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Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
karusanyoshi said: »
I suspect she hid them because they weren't his children. But having SEVEN babies 'accidentally' raises even more doubt. It's extremely likely drugs played a big role in this tragedy - she probably got high with her dealer, did unsafe sex in exchange for the drugs, then killed the evidence of her misdeeds so everyone would think she was a normal person. The fact her husband went to jail for drug charges throws her own integrity into question (not even looking at the atrocity she committed). She likely knew the guy was doing/selling/making hard drugs and didn't leave him. That right there shows the lady has a screw loose.

A simple DNA test would answer a lot of questions.

This is what I was thinking. Even for her first, she would have been about twenty-one? You would expect a teen actively hiding a pregnancy to be a more likely scenario, unless there might be a case of infidelity.
I'm more interested to know how her husband and daughters could remain unaware of seven full-term pregnancies (though it's not mentioned exactly how they were delivered -- home birth by oneself is not something most women can or would do). Granted, I know some overweight women can effectively hide a pregnancy for most of its duration, but by the middle of the third trimester, even chubby women are obviously pregnant in most cases.

The police chief saying that they neither suspect the husband but also think that his being clueless is the million-dollar question is... disconcerting. I may be more used to the police in my neck of the woods being a bit more professionally vague, but seven undetected pregnancies over a term of 10 years stretches probability to molecular thinness.
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By 2014-04-14 17:56:40
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-14 18:02:56
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My brother's girlfriend was able to hide her pregnancy until the seventh month, so I know it can be done. She is overweight but not so massive that a 9 lb. bowling ball in her uterus can be readily ignored. The current picture of this murderer doesn't suggest she's big enough to pull it off, either, but it has been 8 years since the last one, so who knows.
 Bahamut.Savannahlynn
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By Bahamut.Savannahlynn 2014-04-14 18:08:10
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In high school my teachers didn't know I was pregnant until 8 months because I wore hoodies and stuff all the time. It was nice because I wasn't pulled aside for lectures or anything.

My counselor didn't know until the next year when someone told her I had my kid over the summer.
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-14 18:10:23
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I imagine that much of the reason behind people's hesitation in this thread is because they think they're 'too smart' to answer certain questions due to fear of potential future backlash.

It would be nice if people were upfront and honest about what they believe rather than caring so much about their image. I've argued with many people over many issues and I've pretty much forgotten about 99.9% of them.
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By fonewear 2014-04-14 18:12:43
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I cared once it was a big mistake.
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-04-14 18:34:05
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
karusanyoshi said: »
I suspect she hid them because they weren't his children. But having SEVEN babies 'accidentally' raises even more doubt. It's extremely likely drugs played a big role in this tragedy - she probably got high with her dealer, did unsafe sex in exchange for the drugs, then killed the evidence of her misdeeds so everyone would think she was a normal person. The fact her husband went to jail for drug charges throws her own integrity into question (not even looking at the atrocity she committed). She likely knew the guy was doing/selling/making hard drugs and didn't leave him. That right there shows the lady has a screw loose.

A simple DNA test would answer a lot of questions.

This is what I was thinking. Even for her first, she would have been about twenty-one? You would expect a teen actively hiding a pregnancy to be a more likely scenario, unless there might be a case of infidelity.
I'm more interested to know how her husband and daughters could remain unaware of seven full-term pregnancies (though it's not mentioned exactly how they were delivered -- home birth by oneself is not something most women can or would do). Granted, I know some overweight women can effectively hide a pregnancy for most of its duration, but by the middle of the third trimester, even chubby women are obviously pregnant in most cases.

The police chief saying that they neither suspect the husband but also think that his being clueless is the million-dollar question is... disconcerting. I may be more used to the police in my neck of the woods being a bit more professionally vague, but seven undetected pregnancies over a term of 10 years stretches probability to molecular thinness.

Even with successfully hiding pregnancy, how would you hide a, presumably, self-administered home-birth? What if you ran into hemorrhaging, infection, eclampsia (high blood pressure), or the kiddo's skull not being able to pass through the pelvis? I'm sure the health concerns of the infants were not a passing thought, so I'm not going to delve into that.

It's suppose to be progressively an easier and less timely process with each succeeding birth, but there are still fairly common complications that you would have the possibility of running into.
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-04-14 18:35:55
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
I imagine that much of the reason behind people's hesitation in this thread is because they think they're 'too smart' to answer certain questions due to fear of potential future backlash.

It would be nice if people were upfront and honest about what they believe rather than caring so much about their image. I've argued with many people over many issues and I've pretty much forgotten about 99.9% of them.

What's the question?
 
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By 2014-04-14 18:36:36
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-14 18:38:39
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All questions on my mind, Zahrah. There had to be some accomplice in these crimes, albeit a possibly ignorant one. Or possibly several. If I had to hide seven births, I'd want seven different "midwives," but a cynical part of me suspects a mother or mother-in-law or aunt or sister was involved instead.

And while some people can hide a pregnancy under baggy clothes in high school, do you think you could honestly hide it from your husband with whom you presumably share a bed? Maybe if it was some 1950s sitcom with separate twin beds, bonus points of there is a chastity screen like in "Moral Orel."
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By Yzzerdd 2014-04-14 18:39:15
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
I imagine that much of the reason behind people's hesitation in this thread is because they think they're 'too smart' to answer certain questions due to fear of potential future backlash.

It would be nice if people were upfront and honest about what they believe rather than caring so much about their image. I've argued with many people over many issues and I've pretty much forgotten about 99.9% of them.

wut

this is ffxiah forum, not congress lol

Also, I don't understand why infant deaths are taken to be as tragic as they're portrayed. Sure the negligence of the mother is horrendous, as in this case, but abortions are undertaken everyday.
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-14 19:30:30
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karusanyoshi said: »
No, the reason is that you're not listening to anything that isn't what you want to hear.

Correct, but not for the reason you say. I've been at this for a pretty long time so I know how you can paint anything in pretty words and pass it off as justification.

What I did was simple; peel back all the flowery language and get a blunt answer. Yes or no. "But..but personal respo"...shut the hell up, no one wants to hear your buzz words. I denied people the ability to pretty up their position and that's why you see people hesitant to answer the question.


Shiva.Nikolce said: »
What's the question?

The question was simple. If a baby is in need of food/shelter/care, should the government step in and offer aid. It's not really that devastating of a question.

Note that I didn't say anything about implementation. Some people are just deathly afraid of coming off as pro-welfare, even if it goes to infants.
 
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By 2014-04-14 19:49:09
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 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-04-14 19:54:24
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Lol...what's goin on here kids?
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-04-14 20:43:20
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
karusanyoshi said: »
No, the reason is that you're not listening to anything that isn't what you want to hear.

Correct, but not for the reason you say. I've been at this for a pretty long time so I know how you can paint anything in pretty words and pass it off as justification.

What I did was simple; peel back all the flowery language and get a blunt answer. Yes or no. "But..but personal respo"...shut the hell up, no one wants to hear your buzz words. I denied people the ability to pretty up their position and that's why you see people hesitant to answer the question.


Shiva.Nikolce said: »
What's the question?

The question was simple. If a baby is in need of food/shelter/care, should the government step in and offer aid. It's not really that devastating of a question.

Note that I didn't say anything about implementation. Some people are just deathly afraid of coming off as pro-welfare, even if it goes to infants.

Ignoring the other ... Posts as they just seem to be "personal".

The Question of "Should the stat intervene or let Babies Die", Yes they should is the simple answer.

The only issue is how, in the UK we have a whistle blowing method and social services, who monitor and remove children from said environments. Leaving them to die isn't something we do here in the United Kingdom.
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-04-14 20:45:22
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
karusanyoshi said: »
Do I think money should go to help babies in crappy situations/broken families/drug saturated environments (I believe this was your original question)? Of course.

karusanyoshi said: »
But you can't make something as complicated as this into a simple 'yes' or 'no' response.

Just sayin'

It is a simple yes or no response.

Do you let Infants Die, or do you help.

if you would help, then you FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN, anything else is an excuse.
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2014-04-14 21:24:52
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So I was reading another article about this woman. Her neighbors said that she occasionally gained and lost weight but was, for the most part, considered slim. Considering this is Utah, land of huge families and motherhood into perpetuity, I find it very unlikely that a woman in her third trimester who is normally average-sized or thin would be able to convincingly look like anything other than a pregnant woman.

I guess we'll find out more in time.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-04-14 21:49:31
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
I imagine that much of the reason behind people's hesitation in this thread is because they think they're 'too smart' to answer certain questions due to fear of potential future backlash.
People have answered your question. Not our fault you can't accept it because you can't comprehend the answer.

"Oh noes, he used a 5 letter word, it must be wrong!"

Here's hoping you understand this post though. Maybe you should ask somebody to draw you a picture.
 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-14 21:51:06
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
I imagine that much of the reason behind people's hesitation in this thread is because they think they're 'too smart' to answer certain questions due to fear of potential future backlash.
People have answered your question. Not our fault you can't accept it because you can't comprehend the answer.

"Oh noes, he used a 5 letter word, it must be wrong!"

Here's hoping you understand this post though. Maybe you should ask somebody to draw you a picture.

This point has been made already, and I've addressed it already. At least try not to go in circles.
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By fonewear 2014-04-14 22:53:21
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Lol...what's goin on here kids?

I'm not sure and I'm scared to find out.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-04-14 23:38:02
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Don't worry, Ihina is just trying really hard to lead a conversation in a certain direction, but isn't very good at it. She wants to hear our resident conservatives say that they're pro-welfare, but fails to realize that welfare means a lot of things and can vary wildly in implementation. So yes, I'm pro-welfare, but I'm not pro-"throw tons of money at the problem without actually fixing anything so that we can gain and keep a large and loyal voter bloc at the expense of the taxpayer".
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 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-04-15 01:15:44
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Well, I made it abundantly clear that I'm not going to attempt any flowery language to mask one's answer.

Even though I've made that point pretty much every page so far in this thread, you can continue to pretend that I don't "understand" it if you like.

But anyways, for being so bad at it, I finally got one conservative to openly say that they're pro-welfare. Can I get a second?
 Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
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By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2014-04-15 02:56:01
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super cereal in here
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-04-15 07:11:19
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Don't worry, Ihina is just trying really hard to lead a conversation in a certain direction, but isn't very good at it. She wants to hear our resident conservatives say that they're pro-welfare, but fails to realize that welfare means a lot of things and can vary wildly in implementation. So yes, I'm pro-welfare, but I'm not pro-"throw tons of money at the problem without actually fixing anything so that we can gain and keep a large and loyal voter bloc at the expense of the taxpayer".
I get the feeling that Ihina is trying to create 2 different arguments.

If we say absolute yes, then his argument will be "Then why is the GOP trying so hard to prevent children from receiving food, shelter, and education. You aren't really a conservative but a liberal like me."

If we say absolute no, then his argument will be "You hate children! You are evil and I have you on record saying that you hate all children and wish for them to starve and be stupid. LULZ"

It is a stupid ploy and so easily recognizable that it was stupid on his part to even attempt it, much less continue to do so.

But don't forget people, you are all really buying into the propaganda!
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-04-15 08:28:41
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Well, I made it abundantly clear that I'm not going to attempt any flowery language to mask one's answer.

Even though I've made that point pretty much every page so far in this thread, you can continue to pretend that I don't "understand" it if you like.

But anyways, for being so bad at it, I finally got one conservative to openly say that they're pro-welfare. Can I get a second?
At least you're being more honest with yourself now. You weren't looking for an asnwer you were just trying to get a republican to "admit they're pro-welfare" lol... or demonize them for not agreeing with your way of thinking.

/sigh
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-04-15 08:35:39
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I get the feeling that Ihina is trying to create 2 different arguments.

Now if only one of them had to do with the topic we would be getting somewhere.

Bismarck.Ihina said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
What's the question?

The question was simple. If a baby is in need of food/shelter/care, should the government step in and offer aid.

The answer is even simpler. NO!

Charity work should be left up to charitable organizations.

Try reading the constitution. Since you seem uncertain about the role government should have in our lives.

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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-04-15 08:41:13
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
"You hate children! You are evil and I have you on record saying that you hate all children and wish for them to starve and be stupid.

yeah AND!?
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-04-15 09:39:00
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Incoming sh*tstorm.
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