Job Balance?

So been away for a while been trying to read up on patch notes and the like as they come out but was wondering as things stand how is the class balance?

THF still TH onry?/is TH useless again voidwatch style? (haven't played this expansion)

Redmage still in a state of might as well not exsist?

Also what about the relic updates?

All jobs getting new 1 hour job abilities. Some sound great, while others kill the respective job even further. Like RDM.

Relic, Emp, and Mythics get updated next week. No known numbers on what the DMG numbers will be.

Ah, was hoping for more indepth stuffs on how jobs have changed since SoA... read the new 1 hours was really hoping they would change some of them based on the player feed back since these seem to be the same exact abilities the proposed like 2 years ago or w/e when they were first announced... some of them terrible doesn't even begin to describe what they are -.-

I don't think there is much balance at all still. Tanks like Paladins are still useless, RDM doesn't seem to have a place. People don't really even need THF any more because you buy all the stuff with plasm now.

That's what i figured... quit in part due to my endgame falling apart and in part because some of the most glaring issues with certain classes are being ignored...

RDM and THF almost need a revamp from the ground up imo /sigh

The nature of Delve makes many jobs useful in some way. SoA NM's have very few outright immunities, just high resistance. That makes RDM actually useful on them as landing enfeebles helps out quite a bit. Yes you can silence the NM's, even the MegaBoss's. BRD's and COR's are still heavily used to super buff your melee's. Due to many of the NM's and all the MB's having different damage phases we now bring a variety of DD's to the fight. DRK, WAR, SAM are for slashing, DRG for piercing, and lots of MNK's for blunt. BLU is even used for non-elemental and slashing in Foret and Ceizek. WHM is the preferred healer due to heavy aoe damage. SCH is king of stun spam which is necessary on the MB's due to they're stupid aoe's.

Skirmish and Reive are events where pet jobs and solo artists really shine well. And there is a ton of quests and minor content to do. All in all it's a good expansion. People are mostly butt hurt because they spent years grinding on huge time sink old content to get "the shinys" and SoA made most of it irrelevant.

-=Edit=-

Wrote this before the above posted quipped in. They haven't played delve MB runs. RDM is pretty much standard and PLD is required for NM pulling by most groups (the super guys don't need it but they tend to hack anyway). THF got kinda left out cause nobody brings em for Delve. They are pretty good at making money though, there is a huge market for the items found in the various zones. Twitherim wings for 80K a stack, Delve zone entry items for 100~150K each, stuff like that.

RDM is definitely viable, especially in a PUG, or if you have a linkshell group that values overall stability. Daurdabla BRDs, RDM, and sometimes double GEOs were required before the weapon patch came in. With no new fractures out and only "intermediate" content(WKR/Skirmishes), compositions in current fracture runs may use a bit more leeway (many saying how they go with under 18 members simply because they can, and since overall online traffic is down).

In the end, RDM may be skipped by some groups organized enough to determine that they can get away without it, but there's really no reason to avoid getting them, and as higher fractures get released I think they'll remain an essential part in the composition.

sch can match rdm's m.acc and an extra sch/rdm brings more to the table than a rdm in most situations, it's not about how leet you are.. rdm is just plain worse

dia3 only needs one light shot instead of 2, but since dia2 duration is longer than QD recast for 2 shots, you end up with the same def-.. you end up comparing the small differences between para/slow 1&2 to high end out of party cures, more strats for -nas, and a spare tabula/embrava

every NM in foret is easily sleepable with lullaby, only unsleepable in ceizak is tax'et(so if you get mastop too just kill it first and sleep mastop), and morimar is turtle/peiste, a brd can kite turtle while you kill peiste if they're in the same room(which is no more than 25% of the time in my experience)

casting lullaby is not very difficult, and a large portion of runs you won't even need to do that because NMs won't be on top of each other, don't pretend PLD is necessary or even close to it

thf is one of the better DD choices for ceizak, and i'd go as far as to say any ideal setup includes at least 1 to sync feint with the zone message.. with how easy the zones are post-gear buff, it's probably also not a bad choice to bring them elsewhere for extra +2s(i don't know if that's been confirmed, so apologies if incorrect, personal experience leads me to believe it increases +2 frequency notably)

job tier list

Umm yeah no.

elaborate

Definitely not disagreeing there, I usually do my T5s with BLM BLM BRD melee leechx2(run around killing dens with troub songs on melee then leave it there and only have to pay attention to the blms and brd).

It's just plain good enough that the rest aren't worth paying attention to.

Tier list was originally based on Delve, but I maintain that the optimal setup for any event will consist only of the topmost tier(minus the footnotes, of course).

Give THF SA/TA as job traits and I will never ask for anything ever again.

BLU is top tier, ty.

Most groups have the RDM do CSS on Tulu and Scorp under 50% to ensure a clean fight and no missed stuns due to lag. You want Dia III not only for the MB but for pretty much ever NM. Also your information on Dia II is incorrect, it's duration is 2min and Dia III is 2:30 with augmented relic adding another 30s to it. Have the COR's save they're shots for knocking down shields or dispelling buffs and just use 1 LS per Dia III application.

Slow II is slightly better then Slow and Para II is significantly better then Para. Gravity II is also significantly better then Gravity though it's use is questionable.

If we're talking enfeebling then RDM is by far the best for that role. Outside of Dia III most of the enfeebles are negligible but they do have an effect, notably on the lessor NMs. Enfeebles aren't always necessary but neither is a third SCH who is subbing RDM.

Irreplaceable for what? 5/5/5 yorcia skirmish is a joke even with just 3 people, without any min/max group composition.

It's mostly a troll list to piss people off. DRK and WAR absolutely crush SAM right now. You bring SAM for non-elemental Mura or AA spam yet BLU is FAR better at doing non-elemental then SAM. About the only zone that SAM shines in is Cizek and then only with specific buffs and food. Also the nature of delve run's is such that you need a mixture of damage types. This requirement ends up negating the whole "top tier" *** that people use to thump they're chest.

About the only job that is currently "broken" is MNK. MNK has the highest DPS of any job while also having the ability to deal magic damage and buff the entire party's HP pool. They have no weakness's or down sides, it's not even a complicated job to play. Thus every strategy tends to have tons of MNK's being thrown at it.

i defined good tier as situationally useful at minimal to no loss, it's certainly not optimal in anywhere near the amount of situations the previous set is, and i can think of no situation where it's clearly superior, but i'm not going to argue about it because I haven't done any math regarding the new spells, it's good to have for voidwatch procs as well

It doesn't ensure anything, the only move you should be concerned with is Earthbreaker and even a packet response to unstun immediately stunning again only catches it with about 30% success. It may save a tiny amount of time on the scorpion, it only saves time on Peiste if your SCHs are incompetent.

I apologize if my wording was shitty, my intention was to convey that COR has sufficient charges to maintain 20% dia on all NMs. Having an enthunder source in foret allows all of your DD to use offensive subs instead of RUN. As there is always some risk of guillotine during stun immunity, SCH/RDM should be a priority in Foret anyway to minimize the chances of that occuring. Taking down Tojil's shield is largely irrelevant, and you're only talking about 1 QD per 2 minutes anyway, not an entire shield removal. Bee's shield will drop from melee before you take it down with magic regardless.

As I said, you're comparing the differences between slow and paralyze and their t2 equivalents to the gain from additional stratagems and tabula. If you disagree there, obviously we feel differently. An out of party cure or a few extra -nas can make a huge difference, paralyze and slow are unlikely to change the current flow of a fight.

RDM is a suitable job for many strategies, which is how it's tier was defined. I wouldn't consider it ideal for delve, but even if you do it's definitely not ideal for anything else at the moment.

You bring SAM to foret for high DPS and passive survivability, and take a minimal loss on Krab to net gain for the entire zone. BLU, DRK, and WAR are perfectly suitable replacements. See: At minimal to no loss.

You bring SAM to ceizak because it's the best job for it. BLU does better non-elemental damage, but apex SAM will still net higher actual damage without going nonelemental on both Mastop and Muyingwa. BLU is a suitable replacement, RNG base strategies work fine as well.

You bring SAM to Colkhab or Hurkan because it's the best DD for it.

The damage advantage DRK and WAR have in situations where they beat SAM is nothing near the damage advantage SAM has where Apex is used. I can understand how SAM could potentially be classified with the other DD, but I can't see any argument for putting any of the other DD in top tier.

I've edited my tier definitions in an attempt to portray a more accurate list. After careful consideration, I don't think any of them are incorrect. People will never agree on this kind of thread though, since everyone has their favorite job and wants to see it as useful.

There's no real job balance in this game because jobs are way too diverse and there are 22 jobs, it's just impossible to make every job equally useful in events and still different from each other.

Compare with other game content in past 3 years, delve content probably has highest job balance.

So far, the jobs I've seen that's used in delve:

WHM: Main Healer
MNK: DD with high HP
SCH: Stunner
RDM: CS stun on scrop, dispel on turtle, or just stunner pairing with another SCH
BRD: Buff
COR: Buff
DRG: Angon, good DD in Ceizak
PLD: Makes a run so much easier
GEO: Buff/debuff
SAM: Good DD, access to piercing/ranged/none-elemental dmg
BLU: Access to none elemental dmg for ceizak, terror
DNC: Good piercing DD and samba for ceizak
THF: Piercing DD and feint for Ceizak....DNC is probably superior choice because feint isn't needed, but I've seen ppl do use THF for Ceizak and that THF parsed top after 6 NM(inb4 every other DD sucked, that's not the point)
RUN: Used in Foret
RNG: Good DD in Ceizak
WAR: Alternative DD
DRK: Alternative DD

Jobs I've never seen in delve unless it's a leech spot yet(although it's still possible to bring them and win):
SMN NIN BST BLM PUP


Which content in past 3 years with a party size limit has group use 17 jobs in none leech spot without proc mechanic?

Also, ignore the post above about "X job isn't optimal for delve and not needed, thus it's better not to use it". For some ppl, using certain job makes their life easier, in that case it's needed. The above 17 jobs are jobs often used by community in delve.

I've seen a group perfectly capable of killing Tojil without RDM PLD, and still insist to use those jobs because they're not comfortable without one. If that's not job balance, what's job balance? Real job balance=you don't NEED the job to win, but bringing them gives some advantage other jobs don't have, so it's worth a spot.

I'm just glad you put BLU in the Good tier, it's better than what most people would classify it as.

Dancers can fit in as an alternate DD. Not all dancers are pink, yo. Some actually gear their jobs.

war/sam

The only job worth playing is melee WHM, no other job can shower itself in pink flower stickers.

It's not bad in Ceizak at all ._.


RDM can :)

But still below where it actually is...

Good tier is where it actually is. Unless your group really, really need that terror on scrop, but that's just my personal opinion.

/waiting for incoming Draylo/Saevel/Prothescar hate.

I see no situation where anything in my good tier can make a notable difference over the comparable job in top tier. Every job in top tier has multiple situations where it has a large advantage, with SAM having the weakest argument. However, the damage gain from SAM>good tier jobs on apex mobs is proportionally much larger than any damage gain from good tier job>SAM, and I think that merits bumping it up.

I could humor SAM being in good tier, but I can't see a rational argument for putting any of the good tier jobs in top tier.

Regarding DNC, I think it should be kept in mind that very few jobs benefit from more than 5% haste samba and COR should be doing samba/steps to begin with.

IMO WHM MNK SCH GEO COR BRD= top tier, both SAM and BLU should be good tier.

Depends on the NM, the zone and the setup. Krab and Mastop it's godly on and definitely one of the best for Bee. It's ~meh~ on Tojil and Shark. The rankings of any particular job depend on the zone your doing. DNC would suck in Morimar but be outstanding in Ceizek. WAR and DRK beat SAM easily in Morimar and Foret yet fall behind in Ceizek. DRG is amazing in Ceizek yet falls behind those three in Morimar and Foret but you want one anyway case of Angon. DRK doesn't get as much of a bonus from having a DNC in the party vs everyone else. RNG is beyond godly on the Bee but lags behind everywhere else. The only job that's consistently "great" is MNK for the above stated reasons.

People ***on BLU because it's a hard job to play / gear for. Too many people use it as a "fun" job and don't take it seriously and thus when they are asked to play it suck horribly. Having a good BLU in your alliance makes Ceizek easy, having two makes it a complete joke.


Confirmation bias, you won't ever see a reason.