Yoichi Best Rng Weapon Now?

I agree with the Last Stand part, as soon as rng can do a few last stand on a mob, gun should pull ahead on average(unless racc is an issue on ws wich it can be in legion at least).

On a lot of legion mob at least (and New delve NM we did so far), bow rng can stand at sweet spot( mob big enough, or short dangerous aoe range)

Gun is better for pure damage, it just the way you(and other that read this and then repeat) make bow sounds like it's an horrible and bad weapon for rng wich it isn't for what rng are the best fort at the moment ( hate less damage party that can be main healer by a brd).

EDIT: about namas aftermath I don't know if Apex arrow racc suck or if the AM is bigger than 20, but for the life of me on sam I wasn't able to land ANY apex arrow on morta ( 12 try) and Namas arrow was 80%ish racc.

Maybe that's the case, I have no idea. They actually have more Snapshot gear than me because I don't have the Wurrakatte Boots. Always missed Mul runs or they didn't drop while I was there.

I assume they're using 4-hits, I'm using a 5 hit. I looked into switching to 4-hit after the recycle update but it's still not worth it. Maybe someday I'll build a gun and see what the big deal is supposed to be but that'll be after I finish Glanzfaust and possibly Excalibur so it'll be a while. For now I'm quite happy topping or near topping parses with Yoichinoyumi. This also assumes that they boost the damage on gun and bow in such a way that gun remains higher combined base damage. If they don't do that, then screw using a weapon with the same damage and higher delay.



Yeah, I'm really enjoying getting to stand at just outside of 10 yalms for True Shot damage boost on new content.

For rng hitbuild, mid event but I'll post a 4hit bow rng later, it's very easy since the recycle change.

Bow doesn't suck at all. I'm currently using the 30k plasma bow myself for pure damage. My only point is that in situations where hate is a concern, annihilator is better than yoichi. Much better? No.

Apex arrow has been fine accuracy-wise for me. I used it yesterday a lot in provenance. I got refulgent arrow up to 7.4k with 300 TP.

You don't need to "build a gun to see what the big deal is." The math speaks for itself. There's absolutely no way the best yoichi RNG will ever beat the best annihilator RNG. Last stand and coronach are much more powerful than anything a yoichi RNG can offer. You can deny it all you want, and pretend that just because you're winning a parse that your weapon is better, but that's all entirely meaningless. RNG requires that you hit a button for every shot. There's no way to measure how perfectly/imperfectly the annihilator RNGs are hitting their macro compared to you, or whether they're eating the correct food, or whether they have the correct buffs, or whether they are standing at the correct distance, etc. Mathematically speaking, if each RNG hit their macro at the exact right moment, and you had a 5-hit build vs their 4-hit build, they would destroy you in damage. If you had a 4-hit build vs their 4-hit build, then a comparison would at least be meaningful. Annihilator would still wipe the floor in weapon skill damage, but TP damage and WS frequency would be interesting to examine. I'll be happy to math it out when ccl provides a yoichi 4-hit build.

This would work wsing in sylvans hands/back and rajas rings. If you get unlucky on recycle proc, can ws in heads too. Rotating cor for sam roll allow for some switch but idk if other group does it so I didn't include it but it would favor yoichi I believe.

ItemSet 296915

There you go with this "much more powerful" stuff again. It's slightly more powerful, not "much more powerful." Just a few posts ago:


Not really sure what situations you're playing RNG in that you don't mind getting hate but I pretty much don't ever want it.

I hope they scale anni/yoichi to their current stats. I was ranger main from 04-08 and was just getting ready to get serious about it again. I really liked the best weapon also being the safest.

But I suspect they will just make yoichi equal to delve hq bow and make anni equal to delve hq gun. There's really no point in arguing over which is best (not that it hasn't been determined) at the moment. What matters is what will be best moving forward.

SAM roll wouldn't favor yoichi, because then you'd be aiming for a 3-hit build, which is much easier to accomplish with annihilator.

ItemSet 247003

Yoichi 4-hit:
str +49
agi +24
+88 ranged accuracy
+62 ranged attack

Annihilator 4-hit:
str +61
agi +33
+113 ranged accuracy
+89 ranged attack
fencer critical hit rate 5%, tp bonus 20

I think that nullifies your accuracy concern, considering annihilator will be shooting with more accuracy than yoichi's aftermath + base ranged accuracy combined. A difference of 58 delay is not going to put yoichi ahead. Those ranged attack values will become further distanced with attack boosts, which certainly would favor annihilator.

If there's some strange situation where you can stand @10' yalms from the mob, but not 6, then I could see yoichi pulling ahead (due to true shot), but I'm not sure when that would ever happen. I can say with confidence that you'll definitely want to be using gun in any sort of farming situation where hate is not an issue, as it's much easier to move out of melee range into the sweet spot with gun. I was just plasma farming with the speleogen bow and I could rarely weapon skill from the sweet spot after pulling the mob. I could if I wanted to, but I'd waste a few seconds running away from the mob.

"Hate is a concern" = situations where if the mob ever moves and/or strays too far from its held position, potential for entire run to blow up ensues. There do exist situations in which you can go full out and not have to worry about the hate you generate. Usually ones in which other members of the group should be generating it even faster.

Also Fencer's TPBonus is only 20 @ 49 Helel, not 25.

Please no.. I don't want to build a Yoichi! D;

Please explain to me how last stand is not "much more powerful" than any bow weapon skill (usable by yoichi)? Are you serious? It's not even close.

I don't even know what you're implying by the second statement. My argument has always revolved around yoichi vs annihilator, which are two weapons you would want to use in situations where hate is a concern. When hate is not a concern, you would want to use one of the new bows. Asking me, in what situation would I not want to pull hate, is completely irrelevant.

Well congratulations, you don't have to.

You also have more play with sets since you dont need to focus as many slots on StoreTP. A suboptimal build would still likely favor Gun since fewer slots are locked down.

Also, with decoy shot up + characters positioned correctly, you can go full out, as long as you're wearing at least -20 enmity.


I don't know why you're assuming this. They said they wanted REM to be alternatives to existing weapons:


Making a 524 delay bow equal the base damage of a 584 delay bow makes no sense to me, especially when they gave specific examples that showed high delay = high base damage (REM swords). If they do, then yoichi will be an absolutely broken weapon, and I will farm one myself. I really don't see it happening though. Not to mention, SAM would be completely broken too. Notice how SAM can't use echidna's bow.

Some mob AOE range is 10.
If you're meleeing hate shouldn't be an issue anyway so I see no reason to not use gun/LS.

Accuracy issue is for ws mainly, rng is my ls complain about last stand racc. Also it's really visible on sam, Namas either have more accuracy than other ws, the am is a lot more than 20, or Apex Arrow has a racc penality.

I'd like to see a 3hit anni build with average sam roll.

Helel, are your Coro/LS sets + 3 shots reaching 100%? Maybe I'm miscalculating but it looks like you'd be a couple TP short of 4-hitting. 3 Recycles end at ~93%.

Because anni is the alternative to the existing gun and yoichi would be the alternative to the existing bow.

I agree its an assumption but here is what we know:

Echidna bow + mantid arrow: 311 damage
donderbuss + damascus bullet: 247 damage

Even if you assume delay doesnt matter anni would need to be bumped from 76 base damage to 166 base damage to have the same base damage as an existing bow.

I can't see them making anni 166 base damage when the delve equivalent is 107 damage.

This doesn't even include the possibility of jishnu's on a bow that is higher in base damage than a gun. I've argued with people who tried to make a case for bow over the years. But unless they make a drastic change in policy from the gun/bow ratios they put in the game this last update the tide is about to turn.

There is no delve-equivalent gun, just the crafted one. For all we know the gun very well may be in the 170+ range. Same for Delve Bow, it could be 270+ (or it may very well be a lolshortbow with like 150DMG)

Shouldn't Jishnu's on Yoichi ***on anything a gun and Last Stand can do if you need damage? Clearly this is post RMEC update.

The WSC mod isn't as strong, but crits, even without Dead Aim, and a much better fTP mod at 100% should make it the best setup.

Also, you're focusing too much on bows delays and types. Most relic weapons have an atypical delay for their weapon type.

Post update would depend on what numbers gun/bow wind up with and is up for speculation. I would presume due to an easier/more-plentiful mod from AGI, LS would still be top even if bow winds up with a slight advantage in total DMG.

And speaking from experience, if you're stacking a ton of DEX/CritRate/CritDmg gear on Jishnu's, you're doing it wrong.

I was talking about the fact that a couple posts before, you said that in situations where hate is a concern, Annihilator is better but not much better, then a couple posts later you said Annihilator destroys Yoichinoyumi. Anything I'm doing on RNG, hate is a concern, so by your "when hate is a concern, Annihilator is better but not much better," Annihilator is better but not much better. You went from saying it's not much more powerful to saying Coronach is much more powerful than anything Yoichinoyumi can use. I never said Last Stand isn't a better weapon skill.

Plus SE has been adding mobs with Crit Hit Evasion lately

All he's saying is, there ARE situations where focusing on keeping your enmity low is unnecessary and only serves to lower your damage output.
In "pay attention to enmity" scenarios, Coronach is slightly ahead of Namas. In "LolballstothewallDamage" times, LastStanding with Annihilator will be WAY AHEAD.

This ^^ lol. You (Glecent) even quoted me yourself, and I said last stand + coronach. I didn't say just coronach. You're also playing RNG incorrectly if you're constantly worrying about your hate. You have a whole 3 minutes with decoy shot to basically do whatever you want, assuming people are positioned correctly.


No, because there are better bows than yoichi to use JR on. Why do people keep thinking this? At the very least, you'd be better off using gandiva.

There is nothing atypical about relic delay vs relic base damage. Every weapon in this game follows the pattern of lower delay = lower base damage. Why do you now suddenly think they would change this?

Helel we're clearly talking post RMEC update where Yoichi will be arguably the best bow again. You can tell we're talking post RMEC update because you can't use Jishnu's on any bow until then. So what magic f*cking bow are you talking about?

In his defense he was referring to a post-update Yoichi with it's theorhetical stats (Something like "DMG:250 Racc+60 Ratk+50"), which may top a Gandiva's theorheticals ("DMG:230 DEX+20 Rac/Ratk+20").
Plus if coin weapons unlock Jishnu's as proposed, a Yoichi would be the better choice anyway since then you'd have Jishnu's AND Namas if you really wanna stick to your guns (hurhur) about using bows.

@Brain: He means this bow -->> Echidna's bow
Which, were you to have access to Jishnu's CURRENTLY, would be a better option than Yoichi

No ***. I am too, if you can read. Let me write in all caps for you:

READ:
YOICHI WILL NOT HAVE HIGHER BASE DAMAGE THAN THE DELAY 582 BOWS. THEY HAVE NEVER, IN THE HISTORY OF FFXI, EVER REVERSED THE BASE DAMAGE/DELAY OF ANY WEAPON (I.E. DAGGERS NEVER SURPASSED SWORDS, SWORDS NEVER SURPASSED AXES, ETC.). THE NEW BOWS HAVE A HIGH BASE DAMAGE BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST DELAY OF ANY OTHER BOW, EQUAL TO ANNIHILATOR. YOICHI DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME DELAY, THEREFORE, IT WILL NOT HAVE THE SAME BASE DAMAGE. WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

The "magic f*cking bow" I'm talking about is the one already in the game genius. For purely JR, the 582 delay bows will be better.

Calm down, Helel. I answered him in an edit. Granted, yes, it's knowledge that should have been absorbed already, but let's at least TRY to keep the drama from firing up. I'm running out of popcorn.

He said specifically JR on yoichi. I was responding only to that. JR on yoichi will never be superior to the 582 delay bows. It simply won't happen, unless the devs go against every weapon they've ever created.