Bravura WAR

I'd agree with the merit of its additional accuracy if it weren't for the black and white nature of hitting things right now. You're either having no trouble at all capping your hit-rate, or you're having so much trouble that everyone requires accuracy buffs(rendering individual edges irrelevant).

edited my post because i didn't think you were online/replying D:

As for your edit, I'm not interested in telling people what to use and what not to use. If you have a Bravura, by all means use it. If I had a Bravura, you'd be hard-pressed to get me to create an Ukonvasura, knowing full-well that it's virtually always superior.

My only grievance is with disingenuous advertising. Great- you made a Bravura, and you're happier than you've ever been. That doesn't mean it actually does all of the things you're telling people it does. Your evasion down debuff is not helping any competent people, your defense debuff is not sticking to anything that stands to take advantage of it(and requires immense sacrifice to apply), and your individual accuracy bonus is nearly impossible to utilize.

Bravura is plenty sufficient for anything and everything in this game, but it isn't in any way better than the alternative. Leave it at that.

Well... there is the one thing... Bravura has an actual blade looking thing, and Ukon's got that concrete slab kind of thing. :D

I know... straws, grasping, etc.

Ukon > bravura though in VW i have seen some pretty fail ukon wars. One example one ukon war doing under 1.5k ukkos on qilin where as the bravura war was doing a lot more even when he used MT. Ukon did have good buffs too 11 chaos (with a drk in the pt) 11 fighters. Situational stuff is situational. If anyone is thinking of making sets around add effect procs dont if its there its nice but when its not your damage output will be six foot under.

A fail war with Ukon isn't going to suddenly do much better with bravura. Aside from missing less often. Terrible players are terrible etc.

under 1.5k on qilin is epically bad.

this sounds more like the player is lacking temp items

Temp items don't perform miracles.

Ukko's is a crit-based WS. It spikes and dips quite often. 1.5k average, ya, that's bad, but a few low WSs are nothing to scoff at.

Well I did take it as meaning the war couldn't do more than 1.5k at all, then yes that is bad. If that's a low then no it's not really that awful.

1.5k on Qilin is about what you'd see from a miss+hit or miss+miss+da or a non crit hit+miss

He got a couple 2k plus but that was far and few between lows were around 800-900. I got called an ahole and blisted for pointing it out. His only excuse was its the 85 version.

One of these days there will be a weapon discussion and the argument "You don't have this weapon so you don't really know how it is" won't come up.

Well on vacation so responding on my iPhone

If you look at my original post I specifically reference def down as the main benefit. The evasion down generally does not come into play.

I have not particularly noticed def down being resisted on ADL, Odinv2 or legion. Of course I am sure you have plenty of experience with it. In my experience I have seen consistently higher WS by both myself and others AFTER I MT. I guess I should keep specific track but depending on buffs the increase is noticible (actually now I am interested I will have to keep better track wonder if there is a way to have parse pick up which WS are after my first MT)

We generally run 5 to 7 Heavy DD just depends on the specific event strategy. In general I run 2-4% behind the top DD which is normally a rag dark. The only exception being when I 2 hour on ADL and a few particularly rough AoE spamming legions, where the prolonged use of DT sets gives me an edge.

I notice some posts above about how "DT macros are hard." the point is that a bravura war can cap DT without significantly impacting tp set. This means that in a PD Zerg u can add a 6th melee DD who is not likely to be one shotted and is still in capped haste.

A few additional points. MT at 99 is a solid WS. I have found only when heavily buffed is upheaval better.

Outside of VW 40 acc is significant

Finnally, any idiot can see that ukon or rag will win the parse. But you make the leap that 2-4% more DMG by one member of the alliance means that OMFG bravura is a waste of Gil. I personally believe that the def down alone is worth it to an ls. I am sure some one could math it out to confirm.

How long are you planning to hold your breath for this? :3

ADL has pitiful defense, ignoring the fact that everyone should be capping attack due to zerg conditions, and DEF down is likely not landing in Legion or Einherjar II at any rate worth considering.

This is completely glossing over that your proof that it's landing anywhere is eyeballed WS damage.

What was there to math out when Nightfyre answered that argument on the first page?

Feelings.
Feelings.
We always seem to leave out the term in the damage formulas that accounts for emotions and sentimentality.

This.

Just because some wses you were eyeballimg did more after you used MT doesnt mean squat they could have had DA or a TA in there. Anything that is supposed to proc from a ws is going to have a hard time sticking on higher level content.

Sometimes the real damage...is in your heart.

hey guys whats going on in this thread

So basically your saying that Def down does not proc at all on anything that matters and as such is worthless. Or are u saying even if it proc'ed consistently its worthless? Let's assume you can get it to land consistently would that change your prrspective


I am aware that it can be resisted. However, I have seen little or no evidence regarding what the resist rate is and it's very hard to test.

Can anyone point to conclusive testing?

I will do the following. I will simply take the WS average of a few ls mates from parses where I missed the event and then compare to parses where I am there. If we take a large sample size should be an indicator as buffs should be similar.

They're saying both. It's apparently completely unneeded and also false advertising to even dare mentioning that it can proc.

They're saying that the added effects should not be toted as an infallible selling point to getting a Bravura.

Under zerg conditions your WHM is probably capping attack. If it landed consistently and there were no other reliable sources of defense down; then, yes, it might be worth discussing in situations where you can't kill fast enough to zerg but can still throw a lot of bodies in the fray (no current content).


Regardless, it's not landing consistently and there are alternate sources of defense reduction if they're required.

Sure is hyperbole in here.

Quick refresher from page 1:
I don't have direct evidence to support my theory regarding the evasion down effect getting resisted, but I made that reasonably clear to begin with.

Hopefully that will also be the day people stop assuming "X person has this weapon, he must know every single thing about it."

Take the Swift Belt out of your eyes and you'll notice that I've never claimed(nor do I believe) that the defense down is irrelevant. I said that it requires immense sacrifice(the difference between Ukko's and MT and Upheaval and MT is not small), and that the situations where it stands to shine the most aren't likely to be particularly susceptible to it.

But by all means, continue with the bitter, defeatist hyperbole.

I'd unoffically argue to the contrary, to be honest. The mild reasoning ability required to make 2nd hand judgements with regard to things like this is typically correlated with some degree of pragmatism. Pragmatic players don't often have every single item a person can dream of having, and as such are substantially less likely to have any given item being discussed.

in a zerg without might strikes, ukon beats bravura. in a zerg fight i have never seen the def down proc...because well there is no way to know for sure.

in more extended fights, for this i will use odin2, def down has proced and saw the message of it wearing off, although not a very high proc rate. more about odin2 is that it is very easy to tank with 2 bravura wars.