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[Dev] Voidwatch: Response to Feedback
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 173
By Valefor.Monkeynutz 2012-02-01 15:48:19
I'd imagine the NMs that drop the popular armor pieces (Pil, Akvan, etc.) will still be the most popular. What this will do is give incentive for people who have everything from said NMs to participate in those fights again. They can potentially collect tickets to sell at likely a huge amount of money. It's hard to put an exact price on the R/Ex bodies, but given that the NQs are ~2M and the HQs ~8M, I wouldn't be surprised if the tickets sell for 5M+, especially at first.
It will depend a lot on how they divide things up. Too specific (ie. Toci's ticket) and certain tickets will be very expensive while others will be garbage. Too general (ie. VW Jueno ticket) and not only will people have their bodies and whatever other desirable items quickly, but people may also begin just fighting the easiest NMs that can drop the tickets they're after so that they can go with a smaller group/ avoid PUGs.
EDIT: Also I forgot to note how strange it is that it took them this long to implement a system that's nearly identical to the loot system for FFXIV's battlefields. Though in FFXIV's case you complete the fight and maybe you get a weapon or two in the loot pool with 1-2 'ticket' items used to purchase specific drops from that fight once you collect 10 or something (though the tickets are Ex).
Leviathan.Joyroth
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 161
By Leviathan.Joyroth 2012-02-01 15:48:30
What I meant to say.
I see people spamming lower Tier NMs for slips and not doing the higher Tiers for Armor drops.
Ohhh! wait nvm I miss read this...Yea incoming Pil/Akvan/Kaggen shout spams!
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2767
By Odin.Tsuneo 2012-02-01 16:52:03
Seems like I could benefit from having multiple characters. Get those tickets on mules and give them to my main.
Leviathan.Draylo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
By Leviathan.Draylo 2012-02-01 19:12:17
yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
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Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 411
By Siren.Mcclane 2012-02-01 19:28:48
Tired of mules getting gear? Don't bring mules!
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Bahamut.Nipun
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 25
By Bahamut.Nipun 2012-02-01 22:01:25
This is just tiring. You spent all that time getting the right jobs and all that time triggering to just be rewarded with logs. And at times give you a seal. Not a 12 pack but a seal. WTF is the point. With more and more that get lucky enough to get the gear less and less people are gonna be without it when its their turn to shout for runs. I don't even use whm but I am glad i lvled it being I some how got the body from Akvan. I went to that run expecting nothing.
Seriously whats the point of triggering if you get crap. I no longer look at triggering to increase drop rate but to live out the long battle. All that time spending on these nms I could had just been fishing to get gil lol And i know this has been mentioned before, but why in the hell we getting items that are rare/ex in the chest when we already have them? I cant even take all to increase the depawn of the chest because of this.
I swear developers now in days do nothing but release demos. "lets just release this unfinished idea and patch it later." Im not saying to make it easier to kill the NMs but do something about the drops. Until then I will call this Watch me get junk NM.
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-02-01 22:09:27
Expect nothing, get everything. Expect everything, get nothing. Every time I truly give up on something, I get it - in VW.
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Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 642
By Bahamut.Fistandantilus 2012-02-01 22:31:11
For me I don't even really care about the absurdly random distribution of loot anymore. I am just bored to death with the actual mechanics of VW. It isn't enjoyable imo. There is nothing thrilling or suspenseful about it. Blah blah blah proc... blah blah blah temp items. Oh look that noob forgot to put up fanatics...again.
The sooner Legion, and Nyzul 2.0 go live the better.
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By Chyula 2012-02-01 23:23:37
This is what I think will happen. e.g. Akvan drops:
Ticket tier 1 - 3
Ticket Tier 1 from band
ticket Tier 2 from bullet
and ticket tier 3 can exchange tier 1-2 items.
Need 6 of each tier to exchange for the next tier ticket, but I highly doubt that the top tier body ticket is a 1:1 exchange ratio. If that is the case then expect HQ drops flooding the game within a short amount of time and I don't think Tanaka will allow that to happen.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1907
By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2012-02-01 23:26:46
Quote: Tickets will be tradable and sellable.
This ***is going to encourage people to sell their tickets over giving them to loyal linkshell members who need things. Remember the kind of drama where those members bitched about not doing Nidhogg anymore, because now that no one needs an Ebody they can start mercing it? Yeah, that kind of ***is about to happen again with having to sell these tickets.
Not impressed.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 510
By Asura.Vrytreya 2012-02-02 00:17:03
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: »Quote: Tickets will be tradable and sellable.
This ***is going to encourage people to sell their tickets over giving them to loyal linkshell members who need things. Remember the kind of drama where those members bitched about not doing Nidhogg anymore, because now that no one needs an Ebody they can start mercing it? Yeah, that kind of ***is about to happen again with having to sell these tickets.
Not impressed. It was extremely annoying because there was only 1 pop of fafhogg after certain period of time. How can you draw the analogue with the multi-pop place, and everyone-can-pop it system?
This is what I think will happen. e.g. Akvan drops:
Ticket tier 1 - 3
Ticket Tier 1 from band
ticket Tier 2 from bullet
and ticket tier 3 can exchange tier 1-2 items.
Need 6 of each tier to exchange for the next tier ticket, but I highly doubt that the top tier body ticket is a 1:1 exchange ratio. If that is the case then expect HQ drops flooding the game within a short amount of time and I don't think Tanaka will allow that to happen. They explicitly say they will focus on the rarer item first.
So I think Coruscanti, Mursamemaru, body from T3 Jeuno should get some priorities there.
Lakshmi.Rearden
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1130
By Lakshmi.Rearden 2012-02-02 00:18:46
I guess it's a good thing that VW isn't an LS friendly event, never has been an LS friendly event, and will (now) never be an LS friendly event.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-02-02 00:19:08
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: »Quote: Tickets will be tradable and sellable.
This ***is going to encourage people to sell their tickets over giving them to loyal linkshell members who need things. Remember the kind of drama where those members bitched about not doing Nidhogg anymore, because now that no one needs an Ebody they can start mercing it? Yeah, that kind of ***is about to happen again with having to sell these tickets.
Not impressed.
umad bro? I think it's great.. instead of going 0/400+ like some people have on certain bodies you can buy the tickets for them. It's a great idea I think.
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-02 00:46:32
(unhappy players) I'm not happy with VW SE, I demand change! x10,000 times
*SE releases an update about the VW loot system making it easier to receive the items you actually want*
(unhappy players) NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
*SE ends up deciding it's not worth the time and effort into implementing a system like this*
I liked VW before, and this is a welcome change. It's not what people wanted and asked for, but it's a good compromise in my opinion. They didn't have to do a damn thing for us, they really didn't. VW was designed to be like this and they said it many times before. They are doing this for their players even though it is lowering the longevity of the event considerably (I personally think it was too long before, and that after the change is implemented it will be more appropriate).
Leviathan.Hohenheim
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-02-02 00:51:10
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: »Quote: Tickets will be tradable and sellable.
This ***is going to encourage people to sell their tickets over giving them to loyal linkshell members who need things. Remember the kind of drama where those members bitched about not doing Nidhogg anymore, because now that no one needs an Ebody they can start mercing it? Yeah, that kind of ***is about to happen again with having to sell these tickets.
Not impressed. Well, I think the thing is I wouldn't even do fights that I didn't need something from. And if I did to help someone because they needed bodies, I wouldn't be wasting a stone of my own, which in turn means no drops to help friends.
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-02 01:00:21
Good, people selling their VW tickets means I can just buy them and not deal with the drama at all!
Leviathan.Hohenheim
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-02-02 01:00:55
Good, people selling their VW tickets means I can just buy them and not deal with the drama at all!
^this x1000
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-02 01:01:57
More importantly I can give my ticket to someone who actually is having rotten luck on the item they want.
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Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-02 01:02:19
lol, altruism
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-02-02 01:06:00
psh, why give away what you can make money on!
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11417
By Odin.Minefield 2012-02-02 01:06:03
Cousin got Anhur Robe the other week, didn't even want it, and said he'd give to me if he could. Then this happens foisdjfidjfoisdjfdsio
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19471
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-02-02 01:08:49
This change pretty much makes Voidwatch SE's first perfect event since EInherjar.
Wonder if the tickets will be usable on weapons, since Murasamemaru and Borealis are the only two items I still want from VW.
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Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-02 01:11:58
Valefor.Prothescar said: »This change pretty much makes Voidwatch SE's first perfect event since EInherjar.
It's a great idea, but SE has a very high propensity towards *** things up at the implementation stage.
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VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-02 01:28:44
Valefor.Prothescar said: »This change pretty much makes Voidwatch SE's first perfect event since EInherjar.
It's a great idea, but SE has a very high propensity towards *** things up at the implementation stage. Not to mention that this won't even be added for like 8 months :P
Carbuncle.Kerokun
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 488
By Carbuncle.Kerokun 2012-02-02 01:51:42
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: »Quote: Tickets will be tradable and sellable.
This ***is going to encourage people to sell their tickets over giving them to loyal linkshell members who need things. Remember the kind of drama where those members bitched about not doing Nidhogg anymore, because now that no one needs an Ebody they can start mercing it? Yeah, that kind of ***is about to happen again with having to sell these tickets.
Not impressed. Well, it's either trade/sellable (tickets) or not (coincidence of getting the same item repeatedly, only to have it be "wasted").
Voidwatch's loot system was created to remove the idea of mercing items and bringing money to the highest echelon of importance. >_> Now money is useless toward the drops one wants, and it comes down to being patient with the RNG. Crying ensues.
Ticket system means that mercing is possible... in a way... but not THE ONLY OPTION BECAUSE AN UBAR LINKSHELL IS CAMPING UR MAWB. It's a pretty good midpoint, considering it allows people who are stubborn and would not prefer to shell out the money to simply keep trying their luck. Now you have an option either way.
Not to mention this makes it easier for people to get groups for some obscure (for the lack of a better word) rare/ex gear from T5s or something. People won't be immediately dismiss Kaggen or Akvan or Gaunab because they have all the drops already: TICKETZZZ.
TL;DR: There will be crying either way.
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-02-02 02:00:28
Carbuncle.Kerokun said: »TL;DR: There will be crying either way.
This is pretty much a perfect summary of the FFXI playerbase.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-02-02 02:07:14
Carbuncle.Kerokun said: »TL;DR: There will be crying either way.
This is pretty much a perfect summary of anyone that plays video games.
Leviathan.Hohenheim
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Leviathan.Hohenheim 2012-02-02 02:17:29
ugh stuff like that makes me rage :x it's just like my dad telling me growing up when i did something wrong (which was everything)
use your brain and think!
later on something different..
stop thinking so much and just do!
By Kieron 2012-02-02 03:03:39
I can't believe people are still complaining. Players blew up the forums and SE responded by creating a ticket system you can give to anyone at anytime.
This is above and beyond just throwing it in pool. Now you can make money off it or give it to a friend who's not present at the moment.
This is probably the best thing they've done in a long time.
...Now if they *** it up by "balancing", I've lost all hope.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2012-02-02 03:10:52
I guess I havent been reading the official forum but, who is bitching?
01-10-2012 03:02 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Thanks so much for all the feedback regarding Voidwatch.
I have a couple responses to some of the suggestions and opinions that have been stated. (Sorry it’s a bit long)
Drop rates of equipment for each chapter
There are no drop rate differences for equipment in chapter 1, 2, or 3. Each has the same amount of rarity and there are no differences between chapters.
Bonuses for players who spawn the monster
It would be possible to look into this if other players who pay the costs received the same effects, for example, receiving the same benefits when using the maximum amount of cells. On the other hand, we are not thinking about offering special benefits just for spawning the monster. In extreme cases, only the player spawning the monster would consume Voidstones and continuous battles could take place which would eliminate the good point of Voidwatch where each member receives their own reward and would also develop long claim times.
Cruor needed for atmacite upgrades
For the amount of cruor needed to upgrade atmacites, the idea was not to acquire these beforehand in Abyssea, but to upgrade atmacites while receiving cruor as rewards for Voidwatch. In order to save cruor, it’s possible to increase the amount gained by using cells or participate in battles without spending Voidstones just for cruor rewards.
In regards to other feedback we have received, especially about the areas we plan to focus on to address, I would like to go over the planned adjustments.
Weaknesses and rewards
Since exploiting a monsters weakness is directly linked to the rewards, it seems like players are focusing on creating parties that can quickly defeat monsters whose weaknesses can be exploited easily. As we would like players to utilize weaknesses as an element of strategy, we would also like players to have fun on a larger scale, so we will be looking into making it so that the connection between exploiting weaknesses and the rewards received are not too strong.
Weakness revamps
In order to create battles that can be completed without relying on temporary items, we are planning to revamp weaknesses as well as adjust the distribution of temporary items.
Also, in regards to cases where the weakness is difficult or due to your setup you cannot exploit it even though you determined what it is, we are planning to perform appropriate adjustments. Though we have already received quite a bit of feedback on weakness, if there are any others you would like us to look into please submit your feedback.
Addition of option to destroy rewards
Currently, players need to receive all the rewards at once; however, since it is inconvenient when there is a rare item that you already possess and you are unable to receive the rewards, we will be making it possible to get rid of the item without obtaining it. We are planning to implement this during this week’s test server update.
Subsequent follow-ups
Depending on the route/monster (also depending on players), they are becoming split into popular/unpopular, so we will be continuing to find ways to make it so it will be easy for players that take on these routes later to gather party members.
Also for players that have already cleared these routes, there are already benefits for them to re-do them, such as being able to participate without spending Voidstones and receiving cruor/XP rewards; however, since we feel this isn’t enough, we will be looking into other benefits to participate in fights that have already been completed.
Finally, we plan on discussing topics in regards the loot system in the future, so please continue submitting your feedback. | |
01-16-2012 04:39 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Hey everyone!
Thank you for all of your feedback.
I would like to answer some of the questions that have been raised in response to the planned adjustments that I announced last week, as well as provide more detailed information on the battle adjustments that will be made.
Now, I am sure that some players are worried that this content will become more difficult to complete or that it will become more difficult to obtain loot, but I would like to assure you that none of the planned adjustments will be disadvantageous for the players.
Freezing issue in certain zones
A lot of players have been reporting freezing issues with Voidwatch in Fort Karugo-Narugo (S). This issue is being addressed with the highest priority.
As a temporary fix, we plan on implementing a Voidwatch battle with the same content as Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) in a different area.
Battle adjustments
Quote: My opinion on Voidwatch is that it is content in which the player must proc weaknesses with the correct timing and use temporary items wisely.
That is exactly what our idea for Voidwatch was at the time of first implementation.
However, recently the issue of only tanks being able to get near the target due to powerful AoE spells has shifted the balance. As a result, players have become more dependent on temporary items and more often than not, players continually proc weaknesses in order to use temporary items. We agree with the players saying that “it’s ridiculous that one hit from an AoE spell kills me,” and this is the issue that we are placing a high priority on resolving.
As a future adjustment, we’re considering lowering the damage that non-targeted characters receive from AoE spells. We will re-evaluate the overall balance once we reduce the damage from AoE spells, but if further adjustments are necessary, we may look into the effects of weaknesses.
※With regard to battle balance, I would like to note that we do not assume that every player has the best armor, such as Aegis and Ochain, or Relic/Mythic/Empyrean Weapons. It is definitely advantageous to have the best gear, but we are making adjustments so that even players without the best gear are able to creatively finish all content.
The separation of exploiting weakness and loot
A specific adjustment we have planned is to set blue and red alignment at their maximum values at the beginning of the battle.
※It would be possible to raise these values even more through ascent items. As a result, players will not have to worry about exploiting weakness in order to obtain better loot. Our aim is for players to only have to consider exploiting weakness as part of their battle strategy. Also, this adjustment will address the difficulty of smaller parties obtaining loot. | |
01-18-2012 04:34 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Howdy!
I would like to make an addition to a planned adjustment that was announced earlier.
The issue at hand is the highest priority issue that we would like to address first before we make any other adjustments. There are many other adjustments we would like to make, but if we make too many adjustments at once, the following issues may occur:
The balance is shifted too quickly, possibly making the game worse
It is difficult to see improvement because too many changes are made
An unexpected adverse effect occurs due to the changes overlapping
To avoid these problems, it would be best to plan adjustments in order based on priority and their effect.
In response to us making adjustments in stages, many of you may feel that we are not making enough adjustments, but we hope you understand that our plan is to continuously make adjustments.
Also, when leaving feedback I would like to ask that you provide detailed opinions with suggestions for improvement, rather than simply stating whether you like or dislike a proposed adjustment. This would be very helpful for us.
Now, I will address some feedback that has been submitted.
Quote: I personally like the separation of weaknesses and loot, but I feel like this leads to players simply switching to their strongest jobs to finish content. We understand your concern that players will simply switch to their strongest jobs due to the removal of the necessity to proc weaknesses and we’re carefully planning to address this issue.
In order to avoid content becoming monotonous, an idea we are looking into is not completely separating weakness and loot by increasing the maximum bonus attained through cells and other ascent items. As a result, if there are few players involved, using cells will replace having to proc weakness, and for larger parties, it would be possible to avoid paying the high cost for cells by procing weakness as usual.
We may discover some issues with the above proposal upon our extensive review, but we believe that if we completely separate weakness and loot, it is inevitable that players will lean toward using only their strongest jobs.
In order to allow creative freedom in battle, it is necessary to improve the effects of procing weakness, so that it is more enjoyable to use various tactics to proc weaknesses rather than resorting to using the strongest job available. This is a long term goal for us, so it is not possible to make this change all at once, but we will be taking steps one by one to achieve this goal.
Please let us know what you think. | |
01-23-2012 02:22 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Greetings!
We will be implementing the below adjustments to Voidwatch during this week’s test server update.
Addition of same battle content as Route: Jeuno 2 - Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) to Beaucedine Glacier.
※Beaudedine Glacier has been added to the list of teleports offered by the Atmacite Refiner.
※The above addition is a provisional change.
We will continue to make adjustments as we see how the current AoE damage adjustments affect battles going forward, so please be sure to submit any feedback you have. | |
01-26-2012 01:43 AM | Gildrein | Community Rep | |
| [dev1075] Voidwatch Adjustments
*The following content is in development. Specific details may differ from the release version.
The Jeuno II Voidwatch operation at Fort Karugo-Narugo (S) may also be undertaken at Beaucedine Glacier.
*Beaucedine Glacier will be added as a destination to Atmacite Refiner teleportation menus.
*This is a temporary measure.
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