I was under the impression that the ads payed for the site...I love it when people perceive a profit when I'm pretty sure the ads are for operational fees.
I do believe this is true i do recall the admins saying a few times that they do not make a profit from this site at all
People should at least get the respect of saying "hey knock it off" before they're banned/removed from a thread. That one little change would bring people back to the site.
In fairness, from what I see, 90% of the people being topicbanned are not contributing anything worthwhile to whatever thread they're being banned from. They are doing nothing but attacking other users and causing unrelated arguments as to whatever the actual topic was.
They still deserve the right to face the gravity of their presence upon others. It's not always easy to see through the mind's eye of another so-to-speak.
I think one of the biggest issues when it comes to people accepting their topicbans, warnings, or even thread deletions is that they do not agree with the rules.
Say you have a post deleted for profanity in an image. You don't agree with the rule, so you do it again. At that point not only are you breaking the rule for a second time, but you did so after a moderator took action against the first one.
That is NOT the way to get rules changed, reworked, or clarified.
Don't forget that we have a tiered punishment system. Warning, Temp Ban, and then Perma Ban. There are no additional warnings listed anywhere else in there.
I've said this a lot over the past few weeks, but if you have an issue with moderation against you, voice your complaint via PM to a mod or admin. Just make sure you don't open it up with "*** you." I have revoked quite a few topicbans, and even a permaban or two. Your attitude means a lot in the decision process.
How would an appeal process work in such a case? Is one able to PM admins/mods after being temp/perma banned? Or are they SOL until things get looked over on someone else's terms/time?
I was banned but it was on a temp-ban status and was informed I could come back if I asked, but I had asked to be banned in the first place. :/
I'm not sure what you would call that if not temp-ban.
I think it has to do with the severity and nature of the band more-so.
Some bans are full on permabans, others are more...malleable bans.
I was banned but it was on a temp-ban status and was informed I could join if I asked, but I had asked to be banned in the first place. :/
I'm not sure what you would call that if not temp-ban.
if you asked to be banned you didnt do anything wrong so im sure they would take it back >____> its not the same thing lol im talking about the chance some permabanned people coming back lol
I don't know. I see many times in threads about the game that if you point out at a wrong information from another user you're just labeled a troll, reported and eventually topicbanned for causing trouble. Hello? The main focus should be the game, shouldn't it? It's hard to have constructive discussions when crybabies shout they're being attacked by the scary trolls in their head. Sure, some people just don't know how to be polite, but taking the time to get a deeper understanding of the whole discussion wouldn't hurt.
That aside...I think pretty much everyone can understand the rules and why they are there. But there are different ways to enforce them and more often than not the 'patient and diplomatic' isn't quite fitting the moderation act.
I have revoked one real permaban. The others were basically extended temp bans at the user's request. The user sent a very apologetic PM several months after the ban. I felt that it was sincere, and discussed it with the other moderators. We agreed to let him come back with the understanding that he would go straight back to perma if he stepped out of line.
One other thing to note is that PM privileges aren't taken for either ban unless you are belligerent with the staff. At any point you are welcome to discuss your ban.
Sev & Flion I believe.
They didn't necessarily make a direct action to warrant the ban, but rather made cumulative problems that compiled over a course of time that made their presence more problematic than the worth of keeping them around.
Sev & Flion I believe.
They didn't necessarily make a direct action to warrant the ban, but rather made cumulative problems that compiled over a course of time that made their presence more problematic than the worth of keeping them around.
I didn't see that Flion got banned but did see him posting on behalf of Flion...didn't see much conflict of it though. Hm.
What about those who didn't get a warning and flat out topic banned? One mod didn't touch the subject but when another walked by it they slapped the ban with out word.
Sev & Flion I believe.
They didn't necessarily make a direct action to warrant the ban, but rather made cumulative problems that compiled over a course of time that made their presence more problematic than the worth of keeping them around.
figured, just was curious to confirm. imo these bans were a long time coming.
What about those who didn't get a warning and flat out topic banned? One mod didn't touch the subject but when another walked by it they slapped the ban with out word.
What about those who didn't get a warning and flat out topic banned? One mod didn't touch the subject but when another walked by it they slapped the ban with out word.
They can always PM the mods about it.
The one who looked the other way said another one decided it wasn't a "good post" so deleted both and topic banned. No PM, no warning.
Sev & Flion I believe. They didn't necessarily make a direct action to warrant the ban, but rather made cumulative problems that compiled over a course of time that made their presence more problematic than the worth of keeping them around.
figured, just was curious to confirm. imo these bans were a long time coming.
Finally. Finally the mods have recognised those double team troublemakers for what they are.
What about those who didn't get a warning and flat out topic banned? One mod didn't touch the subject but when another walked by it they slapped the ban with out word.
They can always PM the mods about it.
The one who looked the other way said another one decided it wasn't a "good post" so deleted both and topic banned. No PM, no warning.
They can still PM the mods about it if they have problems with it I'd imagine.
If you have a problem with a mod PM about it is what I'm essentially saying.
I would argue there are worse users than Flion and Sev out there but I trust the judgement of the admin team.
Remember that you are you always free to report the posts of disruptive users, and you can also send a PM to any member of the staff. Pretty much every PM voicing a concern about a user is copy/pasted into a new thread on our private section of the forum for discussion. We look into every complaint.
I haven't had a means to report other posters for quite some time now, after having PM'd you about it several times.
Not going to say anything really, but I feel like this should be taken down... It's clearly an attack on Flion and shouldn't really be there..
I don't see it like that honestly. If you actually read it, it is nothing more than clearing up a situation that Flion himself was preparing to start.
Yeah, but problems should be addressed as they come, not made preemptive before they even occur. Otherwise you get a lot of controversy similar to the whole "Precrime" concept from Minority Report.
Awesome movie btw :3
We've had to do some painfully subjective bans over the past few days. I say painful because they are bans that were made due to cumulative, subjective issues with certain users over months and years, and not single infractions that broke the camel's back. (So to speak.)
These are always extremely difficult calls to make, and by our internal policies can only be made by an admin -- not a mod -- because they're a subjective judgement call made for the health of the site and not due to violations of any particular forum rule.
These events are extremely rare. In the entire site's ~5 year history, I can count the number of these bans we have made on one hand. This is because making bans for subjective reasons that aren't backed up by specific rule infractions harm the users' overall perception of our integrity and consistency. If we can nuke some guy for no specific reason, what's to say that you aren't next?
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Our moderation is short-staffed. It has been for awhile. This is mostly due to the fact that everyone I have approached about the job who I feel is qualified (I can share my requirements later if you're interested, but that's another post) has turned me down.
Honestly, this is expected: the people who are sane enough to understand the nature of the position and the thankless level of responsibility are typically too sane to accept the offer.
Being a moderator is thankless, strenuous, and altogether pretty awful. The fact you only appear out of the woodwork when something has gone wrong, plus general human mental quirks around confirmation bias, means that the more you do your job, the more you will inevitably become associated with being the bad guy. You must constantly fight this perception, and it requires skill, diplomacy, training, and a certain level of self-critical diligence and effort that is often unreasonable to expect from volunteers.
I have gotten a lot of feedback about heavy-handedness among some of our moderation staff, and you'll just have to trust that I have taken it to heart. But I believe all of our moderators are doing the best job they can within the limitations of the rules we have imposed upon them. We need to work on consistency and avoiding the perception of favoritism. When favoritism appears to occur, users can't always be expected to give us the benefit of the doubt and understand there is almost always non-public, extenuating circumstances that have caused it.
I ask that you believe me when I say that we're working on it.
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That being said:
Users need to understand that our mods are limited in their powers. They cannot perform perma-bans, nor temp-bans without providing lengthy documentation and evidence. Even then, there are typically threads about the user in the Moderator forum that involve every mod, and every admin, and frequently run to many pages before a decision is made. Just about the only decision a moderator is allowed to make in a vacuum is a topic ban, and even then, I'm pushing towards using them less and less as a disciplinary tool in general.
Why do I tell you this? Because I get a lot of complaints about a single moderator, attributing blatant, dictatorial, vengeance-driven behavior and permanent, ruthless disciplinary action that they simply do not have the power to take even if they wanted to. This tends to make me skeptical and dismissive of the overall claims even if there are nuggets of truth buried in there, because I start to distrust the reliability and intentions of the messenger.
We site admins have a famously low tolerance for drama. We have no interest whatsoever in investigating who said what to who, who exaggerated what about what situation, who has an agenda against which user clique, who's spreading rumors about what relationship, or any of that.
We run a FFXI and FFXIV gaming site, of which the forums are one small component of the overall operation. There isn't enough you could pay any of us to keep track of all that drama, and if you try and play games with the moderators or admins based on any of it, the admins are quite likely to just advise nuking every affected party so we don't have to waste our available free time and precious sanity tracking down who's saying what about who. That's time and effort we could be spending on making the site more useful for everyone else.
This isn't me being mean, or lazy, or dismissive. This is practical reality. We aren't on these forums all day like you guys. We simply can't keep up. There aren't enough hours in the day.
And that's just the admins! Moderators are all volunteer, so they have even less of a reason to do so. Frankly, I'm amazed they haven't all told us to go to hell by now.
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This means that if we end up getting a group of users who are consistently the source of reams upon reams of stacked-up drama every time we visit the site... users who consistently tiptoe right up to the edge of the rules and then fill our Inboxes with reports, complaints, bizarre-ass interpersonal drama about relationships and stalking and disagreements and sniping, etc, eventually an admin (like me) is just going to make the call to nuke them just to keep us all sane. It simply isn't worth it.
There is a cut-off of diminishing returns such that your contributions to the forum are not worth the sheer effort it takes to keep you around. It's nothing personal. No harm, no foul. There's the door.
I've recently made this call about two elder users. Banning Sevourn and Flionheart was my call -- not our moderators' -- so you can stop sending me PM's alleging forty different drama-filled conspiratorial interpersonal narratives about how or why a certain moderator would have done so. You just make yourself look like part of the problem.
Like I said, the number of bans we've made like this in the half-decade the site has been around can be counted on one hand. In both cases, the record of warnings, topic bans, temp bans, perma-bans-and-pardons, etc number several pages of text in the user's account notes.
So please do not freak out that suddenly the red-barred ban hammer is going to come down on your head with zero warning. We don't operate that way. And we're not going to start flipping out and banning people out of sheer frustration alone.
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But you need to realize that the smooth operation of this site is a partnership. I need my mods to be consistent, polite, diplomatic, and patient. If they aren't doing that, I still need to know. Please continue to report your concerns. Your feedback is always taken to heart, even if it's just tucked away into a corner of the admins' heads for future consideration and does not result in immediately action until I get enough consistent complaints to make a case.
But I need my users to avoid twisting themselves into impossibly complex, nasty Gordion Knot relationships, while engaging in moderator-backed efforts to destroy one another's reputation and credibility, and then running to an admin when it blows up in your face. It's important that we all establish realistic expectations of what we can expect from you, and what you can expect from us.
Everyone needs to take a few steps away, and breathe.