Cor/Sch?

I myself don't use Rdm or Blm sub for Cor because /Sam is so addictive but then again I don't have Rdm or Blm leveled as a sub but I do have Sch. I'm wondering is /Sch w/ Firestorm & Karin Obi greater then /Blm or /Rdm for damamge just in case I did want to sub a mage job.

edit: I meant this for Wildfire users

I was actually just going to respond about this in the new bullet thread, (http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/25503/omphalos-bullet-smexy/), but as we have a new thread for this now, I'll do it here.

I don't recall exactly what boost you receive from weather/day and I don't know if these effects are somehow nerfed when /sch.

I am not well versed in the ways of sch. I have it unlocked. It's level 1. A brief glance at the scholar wiki page indicates they do not get MAB II. So you lose out on passive MAB right away. From there it depends on how much time getting your weather buffs up takes up.

If you've got to caste multiple spells on a haste/refresh-type frequency on top of your rolls already, that is potentially -- for me anyhow -- too much time spent not killing things. For something like brewing or even in a group setting fighting NMs (if you're in a blm party especially) it may very well be worthwhile. Weather effect boosts can be very potent. Especially in Abyssea where they're stacking with the already-huge numbers you're putting up.

There are just too many benefits to not having to stop and cast, however. Additionally, I know I can QD > Wildfire kill most garbage mobs that I farm, even when they're IT. Stopping to cast to do yet more damage would just slow me down to put up excessive damage.

Ultimately, it might beat out /rdm or /blm for brewing and it could churn out higher single-shot Wildfire numbers. But overall I think /sam is going to remain my number one sub just because of the frequency of weapon skills, damage negation of seigan/third eye, and -- most importantly to me -- the fact I don't have to slow down to stop and cast.

I think you're grossly over estimating the time spent buffing as /sch, firestorm takes like 3 seconds to cast, easily done even before a fight, and lasts 3 minutes, an easily respectable duration. The boost given would be a 10% boost to your whole weaponskill, and a total of a 25% boost on firesday. Casting times are completely negligible, so if that's your primary means of argument, I'd reconsider your options

You're forgetting the amount of utility that comes with /SCH as well, such as things like dispel, -na's, etc.

Yep, AoE stoneskin, other weather spells for other mages you might happen to be taking care of, decreased casting time and mp cost of all spells across the board (assuming the appropriate arts), and now for something new
Klimaform
Assuming that /sch gets our "artifact" spell per-se, resists during the moment of klimaform will become a thing of the past assuming you have firestorm up (you will).

Thought it was tested in the test server /sch got access to Klimaform? I'll test it myself later.

Yes, you can use klimaform with sub.

all the more reason then

I myself wanted to run some tests, but haven’t had the time lately to play around on the test server, nor is my scholar of level (only 41 at the moment)
Being a HUGE proponent of the mage support, I tend to lean on /RDM for the MAB2 Trait, plus the over all survivability of stoneskin, blink, phalanx etc.

Not sure what the difference will be with an Obi and Fire Weather/Vulcans on.
Would love it though if it trumped the MAB2 trait.

Gonna keep an eye on this thread if anyone does some testing.
Hopefully I’ll have time to get that SCH sub finished and test it myself as well.

P.S. as for /SAM sub. I do like the frequency of WS’s. But I tend to lean on Tacticians/Wizards Roll for frequent WSing when /RDM

Lengthy post is lengthy:

Maybe I'm using corsair in very different functions from you guys. But a few notes:

- I already admitted I was unclear on cast times and even exactly what spells need cast, and how frequently. The biggest thing I specifically know about scholar (as opposed to the things available to several mages) right now is that my wife looks really cute in the AF3, and that they can give you full-time weather boosts.

- I acknowledged the usefulness of the weather spells in a blm party (or whm even, I suppose) if you don’t have a real scholar there or one of the mages isn’t already /sch for some reason.

- The only place I'm regularly corsair in a group setting is Voidwatch. For magic triggers, our group regularly has anything /sch will give not covered by others (we do normally have a sch main along, or a mage who is /sch).

- The main compelling argument I see for the regular use of /sch as your main sub is using the weather/day spells to enhance your QD/Wildfire damage, and again, for brewing or bigger NM fights this could be very useful. But for your run-of-the-mill Abyssea fights where you’re blowing through mobs, the damage is excessive and /sam lets you ws more frequently and provides you better defensive options.

- I, personally, am never in a position where being /sch (or /whm for that matter) is actually something worth doing. In Voidwatch /sam behooves me far more due to the nature of the roll I’m playing within my group. I’m often asked to cycle whatever weaponskills corsair can use to allow people who can use the job-exclusive ws’es to focus on those. Anywhere else I’m solo/duo/lowman and what /sch offers is going to slow me down, be redundant or otherwise not as useful.

I’ve never been a proponent of subbing mage jobs in most circumstances. I’ve always felt it’s spreading yourself kind of thin trying to do that many things at once, and all the gear changing that corsair requires gives you an exceedingly variable MP pool. Outside of Abyssea, which is where most content is now shifting, this is an even bigger problem. And this is before you even consider the inventory ramifications of carrying around an MP gearset.

I sub mage jobs when it will benefit the group I’m with; I’m not some selfish stick-in-the-mud *** who only cares about his own damage output/etc. I do see merit in certain situations for /sch, specifically if I were on corsair in an ally setting outside of Voidwatch (say, the new wyrms they’re discussing), where those utility spells could be very useful. I do feel, however, I’m probably defining the situations where subbing a mage job in a slightly more narrow fashion than most of you.

Bottom line is that I just can’t see it being useful enough to become my default subjob, though it could potentially become my go-to subjob when I need to be subbing a mage job.

If it helps ease your mind, I will be leveling it to 50 now anyhow. Its level of useful when it is appropriate is too good to ignore, even if I might consider those situations fewer and further between than some of you.

Honestly, for surivability sam wins over rdm. I do prefer rdm though for the mab bonus(considering that having tp is never an issue it comes down to seigan vs mab).

We seem to be polar opposites on this topic. I really dislike being /mage and I do it when it will help my friends. Not because I enjoy it. (Yes, yes. I know. "I'll be on the veranda since you're already on the cross.") I truly despise taking time away from/trying to time rolling, shooting, etc. to/around long-cast buffs like blink/stoneskin/phalanx. If they lasted longer where I wasn’t recasting them every three minutes, it’d be different. But they take so long to cast that between those, rolls and the occasional cure, you’re struggling to work in your other actual corsair duties.

But I acknowledge that having the mage sub in a group setting can be more useful. So I will do it. But when I'm solo, I'm not going to spend all my time casting. Just not gonna happen.


Fairly positive it beats it inside Abyssea. Outside more questionable because it’s a percentage.


I also lean on tactician’s/wizard’s. And I still find /sam a better choice for day-to-day use.

SCH also has damage negation with blink/SS. With higher enhancing magic skill this can actually be pretty useful. Plus you can Accession it. Free RR/sneak/invis is also useful. And you can get your MP back.

Does that new spell Kaustra/Embrava useable as a SJ?(Wiki didn't say you can't) If yes then COR/SCH may ended up being ultimate regain *** for VWNM while using 2 regain buffs.

Compare with /WHM it loses Stona and Cure IV, but I think most of the time /SCH will give you most of the spells you need. QD WF dmg+ 10% from Firestorm is a nice bonus(for those COR who refuses to play support style and DD only, this can provide a nice incentive for them to use it ;p), but its biggest strength is it's support magic spell IMO.

In terms of dmg, in Abyssea it should add about 550~700 more WF dmg, outside maybe just 100~200(based on /SAM WS dmg I just add 10%). But I'd use this SJ over /SAM for stuff like VWNM if I ever play FFXI again, just because it's utility.

Also I don't think time spent on casting spells is a big problem....since a lot of times there are downtime or you shouldn't full time DD it anyways.

/SAM still has it's use as a DD SJ though, it can deal large amount of dmg in a very short time, that's the SJ I usually use when I'm zerging with WF. But 2 regain buff(If Embrava works as SJ) and Firestorm isn't bad for DD at all if you're not aiming to do 6~8 WS in 1 min.

I already had this SJ leveled to 50 before level cap increase because I believe this SJ is gonna be a very good SJ that offers both offensive and support ability. Personally I like to be more versatile and have access to both support and offensive ability in the battle field for harder NM as well, more than using pure DD SJ that only offers nothing but DD ability. So this SJ will fit my play style quite well(I used this SJ a couple of times way before lv cap increase, can't say I like it more than /WHM as a support SJ with lack of some spells though). Too bad I quit FFXI before update and never get a chance to play with new spells from /SCH ;(

I just had this thought, and will will throw it out there that this could entirely change my mind on /sch:

If using /sch allows you to drop Lone Wolf or Smoldering Sky (I forget off the top of my head which is the bigger boost) and use Sea Daughter for the regain and still kill most mobs by QD>Wildfire.

If so, that could make /sch kinda crazy good. Like…insane good.

I actually enjoy casting on COR, since the DPS of COR is so low compare with other jobs(and costs a lot of money in harder fight if you're shooting), that casting may benefit the pt more than doing gimp DPS for harder fights. And I need something to do while not doing roll/waiting for 100% TP. Casting spells is nice to do while waiting.

If you feel spells do not benefit your pt maybe remove one WHM in the alliance and get another DD?

They're all the same, 30%

Firestorm won't make up for it.

Those two spells are only available during Tabula Rasa, which is the SCH 2hr ability, so no, you won't have access to those two spells.

It might not completely make up the damage, but what I'm saying is it may still increase the damage enough to drop one of them and still one-shot (well, QD+Wildfire) garbage mobs. If so, you would significantly increase the amount of weapon skills you're performing overall (you'd have 11 tp/tic w/ 11 Tactician's, Sea Daughter and Roller's Ring).

Your Quick Draw/Wildfire numbers will go down, but that's irrelevant if your kill numbers are going up. If you can burn through mobs faster, the actual number you see is nothing more than eye candy.

Yeah I just remembered update note mentioned SCH 2hr update, with access to additional spells.

Then all SCH offer for DD ability is just QD/WF dmg+10% then.

This is a silly argument. Corsair spells can’t even begin to touch a White Mage’s spells. I feel my spells on Corsair do not benefit the group nearly as much as being able to proc as many ws’es as possible and help in capping lights. Nothing available to me subbing a mage job will help in that fashion to nearly the same degree.

You still have WHM in alliance, not asking you to replace all WHM with a COR, but sometimes you don't need as many, you only need a lot when you spamming erase or cursna or para etc, and a COR/WHM or COR/SCH can get the job done.

Most of the time when I do VWNM it wasn't even my proc anyways. It's usually other DD's proc, they go in to proc and eat AoE then die. /mage help raise is way more useful LOL.

I don't even

I don't want to turn this into a Voidwatch discussion, but if your members are being intelligent about things and playing well, you shouldn't have that many deaths in the level 90 initial batch of Voidwatch fights, and having RR up is -really- easy.

Admittedly every now and then you get someone stuck dying repeatedly trying to raise away from AOE swings on T4s, but that's not that common.

Edit: Also, there are already times where we only take one white mage. But there are people more readily able to pick up any of this slack without sacrificing efficiency than me.

Stop. Even. Mentioning. WHM. As. A. Sub.

Busy at work, but still trying to look up the Obi/Staff/Fire weather and what it would amount too for Wildfire.
Hopefully I’ll have more time at lunch.

But, don’t mean to backseat Mod, but lets keep it on the topic.
I myself could go on for days on end about /Sam, /Rng, /War, /Rdm or /Blm /Whm (*** even /NIN) and where they can be applied and how they can be best used. It’s the beauty of COR and it’s Versatility with it’s subs.

But the main topic at hand is how Fire Storm and Karin Obi will work vs subbin any mage job that ups your MAB for Wildfire

If you aren't running around doing a quest or in desperate need of Stona, you shouldn't be /WHM.

Which brings me back to my thoughts on maybe /sch allowing you to drop an MAB atma for Sea Daughter.

I really hope this is viable. I have my doubts, but if it is, it could be really sexy.

Honestly I'm not sure how important being able to replace a MAB atma with a regain one would be just for the sheer fact we can already get 7(ish) tp a tic naturally, combined with QD and a snapshot/tp shot build not to mention triple shot and meditate /SAM I rarely find myself thinking I need to be churning ws's out faster.

Especially in abyssea when i'm sitting on my *** waiting for somebody to proc something and my tp is sitting at 300% followed by the few seconds its zerged to death after all procs.

As for /SCH interms of just subbing it for firestorm i'm skeptical outside of brew situations compared to the MAB2 trait but as a whole /SCH can offer alot of utility spell wise along with firestorm so it seems a fairly viable option.

I do a lot of solo'ing on corsair simply because I enjoy playing the job as such.

Getting the 11/tic from SD+Tactician's+Roller's Ring would be kinda sick. It would essentially be perma meditate. But again, this is only viable if QD+Wildfire would still kill off a mob.

Otherwise, absolutely not.

The longer this topic goes on the more it seems I don't play corsair in the same fashion most others do, in a group or solo.