|
DNC Response from the Devs
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 17:52:05
Only thing id really like to see, is move Healing Waltz and Divine Waltz into its own thing.
Same here
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9
By Sylph.Dancingharuhi 2011-08-15 18:08:05
Thing is, with the update to Climatic Flourish and having Rudra's storm and being able to easilly make darkness, DNC isnt as bad of a DD as people make it out to be. On top of that, they can actually take care of themselves.
Any time I see a NIN/DNC in abyssea, makes me want to shoot my self. If I had a choice between NIN/DNC or actually just bringing a DNC, id much rather bring the DNC.
Only thing id really like to see, is move Healing Waltz and Divine Waltz into its own thing.
It's depressing that you need to have an empyrean before you can even be useful on DNC inside Abyssea. :(
As I said, yes they can take care of themselves, which is why they're good at soloing and low-manning outside Abyssea. When it comes to efficiency inside Abyssea, you're gonna want a.) a NIN b.) a WHM c.) a BLM/BRD (and d.) a BLU if you really want to). If you need to proc red, you want a WAR too. Fighting something a bit harder? Add some more WAR/MNK/BLM/WHM.
Don't get me wrong, DNC can do some pretty nice things and when messing around with friends, it's fun to play on DNC, but considering Abyssea's cookie-cutter requirements for most activities, it's not gonna be at the top of anyone's list.
Also:-
"An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the truth of a claim to a negative characteristic or belief of the person advocating it."
ITT Someone who insults others (warrented or not) = argument invalid!
In this case I believe it was used correctly. Plus the claim that I'm a White Knight and "I'd guess you're a weeaboo male, making my assumption that you are a white knight pretty much a sure thing." is an ad hominem in itself.
Also ITT: If you don't hate someone we hate, you're a White Knight.
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2011-08-15 18:17:53
I'm not going to make another thread for this since the japanese information was released much earlier than the english announcement, but here it is:
08-15-2011 05:36 PM | Camate | Community Rep | |
| Greetings dancers! Here is some feedback from the development team in regards to your comments about the job adjustments concepts. Enjoy
Quote: Add new modes for dancers. Add dances that give sphere effects. Since sphere effects are extremely strong and completely negate the opposite enfeebling effect, we won’t be implementing the sphere effect itself. However, we are planning to add something that gives your party members some kind of effect while continuing to consume your TP. As we are not at the stage where can give info on specific effects, we would love to hear your ideas.
Quote: Make it so Waltzes don’t all share the same timer. We would need to completely remake the system as it was originally balanced to have a unified recast timer with limitations placed on the amount of TP consumed. If we removed that, the cure capabilities of the job would be greatly enhanced throwing the balance off between other healing magic. If we were to split the Waltz timers, we would have to raise the TP consumption as a trade-off.
Quote: Reduce the recast timer on Waltz. (Especially higher tier Curing Waltz and Healing Waltz) Since Curing Waltz was designed to be different from Cure in the sense that it has advantages with short execution time and it is hard to interrupt, but on the flip side is difficult to use in quick succession, we do not have any plans to reduce the recast time further. Instead we wish for dancers to focus on specific tactics taking into account the levels of Waltz and use the most appropriate one for the situation.
Similarly for Healing Waltz, since it is possible to address a large variety of status ailments covered by na-related spells and Erase, the recast timer was set to be somewhat long.
Quote: Make it possible to use Healing Waltz on people outside of your party. It would be necessary to look into not only Healing Waltz, but also extending Erase to people outside of your party. In the case that we decide to extend the effects of Erase to people outside of your party, we will make it possible for Healing Waltz, too.
Quote: Increase the effect of Animated Flourish. We are looking into adjustments for this. We are considering making it so you can generate the same level of enmity as Provoke when consuming two finishing moves.
Quote: Increase the accuracy for Desperate Flourish. We are exploring the direction of adding equipment that enhances the accuracy.
Quote: Make it so you can perform level 2-3 skill chains with Wild Flourish. Comparing this to samurai’s Konzen-ittai, the recast timer is shorter and it has multiple uses so the effect itself was set rather low for balance purposes.
Quote: Make it so you can stack steps over level 5. This would require us to look into the effects carefully. Since the effect of level 5 is currently very strong, we do not have any plans of increasing this at the moment.
Quote: Lengthen the effect duration for steps. We are looking into the direction of making it so the duration gets longer at higher levels.
Quote: Make it so you can generate two finishing moves even after you have reached level 5. It can be thought that the fundamental problem here is that in order to maintain the effect of the step you need to continuously use the same step. First we will revamp the step effect duration and determine how many times you can use a step in a single battle, and then make a decision based on that.
The idea is to be able to fight by using a variety of steps and not using the same one over and over just to maintain its effect.
Quote: Make Chocobo Jig an AoE effect. Since there is no cost for Chocobo Jig the effect is set to be only for the dancer.
In the event that we were to extend the effect to party members, there would be some room to explore this if there were TP consumption or some other trade-off.
Quote: Make it so you can overwrite Spectral Jig. Please understand that this is the same as magic and items and it is following the rule that in order to re-apply the effect you need to remove it first. |
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-15 18:18:17
I already changed the first post, but that image is much nicer than my walloftext.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-15 18:19:58
The problem with DNC inside abyssea has nothing to do with its DD output. It has everything to do not being able to proc as well as other jobs. Hence, why im not going to even bother trying to get into that debate because its pointless.
Nothing they could do would make DNC better for abyssea unless they some how got a large number of procs.
Valefor.Rancor
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 256
By Valefor.Rancor 2011-08-15 18:20:54
Soooooooooooo... People are upset that a broken job is not getting more broken? Ok.
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2011-08-15 18:23:07
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »I already changed the first post, but that image is much nicer than my walloftext. It's not an image, and sorry didn't know lol
By Pooman 2011-08-15 18:23:35
Soooooooooooo... People are upset that a broken job is not getting more broken? Ok.
Troll somewhere else.
Other than that, nice post Byrth on the official forums. Unfortunately though, you have a brain, so they'll just totally overlook your post.
[+]
Cerberus.Mystina
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 201
By Cerberus.Mystina 2011-08-15 18:24:35
The problem with DNC inside abyssea has nothing to do with its DD output. It has everything to do not being able to proc as well as other jobs. Hence, why im not going to even bother trying to get into that debate because its pointless.
Nothing they could do would make DNC better for abyssea unless they some how got a large number of procs.
NIN, War are the top 2 red procing jobs, MNK+whm is the top 2 blue procing jobs. since everyone just waits for blunt. one could argue that all other jobs are just as "pointless" it's just how this game is.
Hell a really good MNK+Whm can pretty much duo anything in abyssea.
but thf has the excat same "procs" as dnc but we all know we don't ask thfs to come for "dd" only.
Phoenix.Novaria
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 776
By Phoenix.Novaria 2011-08-15 18:27:22
The only thing I have ever wanted changed for DNC is to have Healing Waltz NOT be a waltz so that you could use it but still be able to use the curing waltzes directly afterward...everything else, in my opinion, is fine the way it is....it just makes me sad that if I go to remove a status ailment I have to wait to be able to heal myself afterward...it's especially irksome if you end up paralyzed out of the healing waltz altogether...
I knew they wouldn't change anything though, DNC is crazy as it is, if they were to change the things people want changed it'd be insane...
By Kalima 2011-08-15 18:29:54
The problem with DNC inside abyssea has nothing to do with its DD output. It has everything to do not being able to proc as well as other jobs. Hence, why im not going to even bother trying to get into that debate because its pointless.
Nothing they could do would make DNC better for abyssea unless they some how got a large number of procs.
Don't disagree with this, but keep in mind that we're going to be moving further and further away from abyssea as time goes on, so if they're improving anything it should be focused on future content.
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-15 18:30:26
Im just saying Abyssea is what it is and as far as content, that area is over and moving back to out of abyssea stuff. Really no point to discuss any job changes to a job that centers around abyssea since really, only thing that can make a job more useful is the amount of procs it brings.
WAR, NIN, WHM, BLM, BLU and BRD subbed are going to be your main jobs. Then THF if you need TH (Though, ive come to realize /THF works just as well for weapon famring it seems)
Past that, other jobs can have a "use" in abyssea. Just not able to proc which makes them less diserable.
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6137
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-08-15 18:41:10
Other than that, nice post Byrth on the official forums. Unfortunately though, you have a brain, so they'll just totally overlook your post.
Thanks! I'm fairly sure that you're right though. Honestly, the questions they responded to make me wonder if they've read the NA Forums at all.
Sphere effect regain is . . . not actually going to be very useful, but it'll be more useful than a Regain Samba or something.
Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-15 18:42:25
Oh
Makes sense I guess, I've seen loads of people saying it specifically to her so I thought there was some significance.
She's only been posting on here for a few days and I'm already angry.
On topic:
I have a new character with DNC, what are the optimal daggers? Non magian, Phurba/Twilight. Not even wasting my time responding to the rest of this ***. DNC forums were one of the best places until some *** botard *** put her ***all up in it.
Cerberus.Mystina
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 201
By Cerberus.Mystina 2011-08-15 18:45:18
Other than that, nice post Byrth on the official forums. Unfortunately though, you have a brain, so they'll just totally overlook your post.
Thanks! I'm fairly sure that you're right though. Honestly, the questions they responded to make me wonder if they've read the NA Forums at all.
Sphere effect regain is . . . not actually going to be very useful, but it'll be more useful than a Regain Samba or something.
Of course not. it is clear from all these years they they care very little about the "NA" side of this game. as you see most of the changes that take place are when enough jps complain. all it takes is 1,000 jps to complain to change something, but if 10,000 NAs complain all they say is "lol QQ" and move along.
By Pooman 2011-08-15 18:50:03
Other than that, nice post Byrth on the official forums. Unfortunately though, you have a brain, so they'll just totally overlook your post.
Thanks! I'm fairly sure that you're right though. Honestly, the questions they responded to make me wonder if they've read the NA Forums at all.
Sphere effect regain is . . . not actually going to be very useful, but it'll be more useful than a Regain Samba or something.
Ditto... maybe I should translate your post and put it in the JPN forum. Maybe they'll listen then.
Lakshmi.Cesil
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 558
By Lakshmi.Cesil 2011-08-15 18:51:49
The interview is really disappointing :/ oh well! I expected as much from se.
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 19:08:28
Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »
Also ITT: If you don't hate someone we hate, you're a White Knight.
Defending a girl that is wrong = whiteknight
Defending a girl = whiteknight
You sir is one.
Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-15 19:17:42
Defender is a near useless JA anyways. Unlike Retaliate.
Cerberus.Vaness
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-08-15 19:19:35
Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »
Also ITT: If you don't hate someone we hate, you're a White Knight.
Defending a girl that is wrong = whiteknight
Defending a girl = whiteknight
You sir is one. defending a girl = whiteknight
defending a guy = whiteknight
defending yourself = inner whiteknight
people stop all defenses already and just attack each other blindly, come on. ok, *** Canada =(
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6137
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-08-15 19:25:16
Other than that, nice post Byrth on the official forums. Unfortunately though, you have a brain, so they'll just totally overlook your post.
Thanks! I'm fairly sure that you're right though. Honestly, the questions they responded to make me wonder if they've read the NA Forums at all.
Sphere effect regain is . . . not actually going to be very useful, but it'll be more useful than a Regain Samba or something.
Ditto... maybe I should translate your post and put it in the JPN forum. Maybe they'll listen then.
Heh, if you want to... be my guest!
By Pooman 2011-08-15 19:26:36
Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »
Also ITT: If you don't hate someone we hate, you're a White Knight.
Defending a girl that is wrong = whiteknight
Defending a girl = whiteknight
You sir is one.
I bet they're the same person.
Pandemonium.Ironguy
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-08-15 19:28:23
Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »defending a girl = whiteknight
defending a guy = bro
defending yourself = inner bushido spirit
Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2011-08-15 19:49:13
Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »
Also ITT: If you don't hate someone we hate, you're a White Knight.
Defending a girl that is wrong = whiteknight
Defending a girl = whiteknight
You sir is one.
I bet they're the same person.
Nah they aren't sadly.
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4118
By Ramuh.Thunderz 2011-08-15 19:55:38
Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »
Also ITT: If you don't hate someone we hate, you're a White Knight.
Defending a girl that is wrong = whiteknight
Defending a girl = whiteknight
You sir is one.
I bet they're the same person.
Nah they aren't sadly.
yes sad to be said person
By Pooman 2011-08-15 20:04:10
Sylph.Dancingharuhi said: »
Also ITT: If you don't hate someone we hate, you're a White Knight.
Defending a girl that is wrong = whiteknight
Defending a girl = whiteknight
You sir is one.
I bet they're the same person.
Nah they aren't sadly.
Stalker? Looking at his(?) post history, it's like that person made an FFXIAH account specifically to back her up.
Here's your link
Here's the text
Greetings dancers! Here is some feedback from the development team in regards to your comments about the job adjustments concepts. Enjoy
Add new modes for dancers. Add dances that give sphere effects.
Since sphere effects are extremely strong and completely negate the opposite enfeebling effect, we won’t be implementing the sphere effect itself. However, we are planning to add something that gives your party members some kind of effect while continuing to consume your TP. As we are not at the stage where can give info on specific effects, we would love to hear your ideas.
Make it so Waltzes don’t all share the same timer.
We would need to completely remake the system as it was originally balanced to have a unified recast timer with limitations placed on the amount of TP consumed. If we removed that, the cure capabilities of the job would be greatly enhanced throwing the balance off between other healing magic. If we were to split the Waltz timers, we would have to raise the TP consumption as a trade-off.
Reduce the recast timer on Waltz. (Especially higher tier Curing Waltz and Healing Waltz)
Since Curing Waltz was designed to be different from Cure in the sense that it has advantages with short execution time and it is hard to interrupt, but on the flip side is difficult to use in quick succession, we do not have any plans to reduce the recast time further. Instead we wish for dancers to focus on specific tactics taking into account the levels of Waltz and use the most appropriate one for the situation.
Similarly for Healing Waltz, since it is possible to address a large variety of status ailments covered by na-related spells and Erase, the recast timer was set to be somewhat long.
Make it possible to use Healing Waltz on people outside of your party.
It would be necessary to look into not only Healing Waltz, but also extending Erase to people outside of your party. In the case that we decide to extend the effects of Erase to people outside of your party, we will make it possible for Healing Waltz, too.
Increase the effect of Animated Flourish.
We are looking into adjustments for this. We are considering making it so you can generate the same level of enmity as Provoke when consuming two finishing moves.
Increase the accuracy for Desperate Flourish.
We are exploring the direction of adding equipment that enhances the accuracy.
Make it so you can perform level 2-3 skill chains with Wild Flourish.
Comparing this to samurai’s Konzen-ittai, the recast timer is shorter and it has multiple uses so the effect itself was set rather low for balance purposes.
Make it so you can stack steps over level 5.
This would require us to look into the effects carefully. Since the effect of level 5 is currently very strong, we do not have any plans of increasing this at the moment.
Lengthen the effect duration for steps.
We are looking into the direction of making it so the duration gets longer at higher levels.
Make it so you can generate two finishing moves even after you have reached level 5.
It can be thought that the fundamental problem here is that in order to maintain the effect of the step you need to continuously use the same step. First we will revamp the step effect duration and determine how many times you can use a step in a single battle, and then make a decision based on that.
The idea is to be able to fight by using a variety of steps and not using the same one over and over just to maintain its effect.
Make Chocobo Jig an AoE effect.
Since there is no cost for Chocobo Jig the effect is set to be only for the dancer.
In the event that we were to extend the effect to party members, there would be some room to explore this if there were TP consumption or some other trade-off.
Make it so you can overwrite Spectral Jig.
Please understand that this is the same as magic and items and it is following the rule that in order to re-apply the effect you need to remove it first.
Irrelevant stuff:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11584-%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%96%E8%AA%BF%E6%95%B4%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%BB%E3%83%97%E3%83%88%EF%BC%9A%E8%B8%8A%E3%82%8A%E5%AD%90/page6
It's up on the Japanese forums. The whole thing looks pretty grim, but I won't make specific comments until I'm done translating it for myself. My Japanese is rusty though, so I apologize ^_^ English one should be up later today (usually around 7est)
Questions Addressed:
1.) Want to add a new mode/sphere effect dance?
2.) I don't want to share waltz recast timers.
They pull out both system-related woes and balance related woes. Simply splitting recast timers would make waltzes too powerful compared to other forms of recovery magic (apparently - this is what I've been saying is on their minds all along lol). Something about splitting might require substantial increases in TP cost if they did do it?
3.) I want waltz recast reduced.
Basically they pull that waltz can't be interrupted, so they don't want to decrease recast timers. They want us to use 1-3 for regular waltzes and IV + V "situationally." The recast on healing is similarly "deliberately high." -_-
4.) I would like to use healing waltz outside of PT.
5.) I would like to increase the effectiveness of Animated Flourish.
6.) I would like to increase the hit rate of Desperate Flourish.
7.) I would like wild flourish to do higher tier skillchains.
They draw a comparison to Konzen-Ittai. They set the effect of Wild lower than Konzen-Ittai because Konzen-Ittai has a significantly longer recast, which makes sense, really.
8.) We want more than 5 stages of step.
This is really disappointing. They already consider the effect of level 5 daze to be very high, so they probably won't increase the potency like I listed in my suggestion thread :(
9.) I want to increase step duration.
10.) I want to earn 2 finishing moves when step level 5 is present.
11.) I want chocobo jig to affect the party.
12.) I want to be able to overwrite spectral jig.
|
|