Discussion About DD NIN

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Discussion about DD NIN
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2008-12-16 15:05:07
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Tavlov said:
Gunblade said:
TAV! XD I was def thinking of shurkiens period for ammo XD WS wise tho, I was kinda leaning towards /thf. I can stack most my WS's with SA other than the lame ones nin have XD (elemental ones)
Sounds very good actually, kinda like sam/thf ^^


NO its not like Sam/thf (which by the way is also terrible outside of some situational uses). In a merit pt, Sam will do upwards of 60-70% of its damage in WS's, therefore forcing crits on those WS's boosts their damage. Nin damage is oppisite and comes from Nin's DOT. /thf is one of the WORST possible subs you could chose for nin. You would be more than a waste of a pt slot.
 Unicorn.Claquesous
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By Unicorn.Claquesous 2008-12-16 15:17:29
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There was another thread somewhere where Jaerik discussed the various subjobs for SAM. He concluded that /WAR outparsed any other subjob over time by at least 10%. Clearly he couldn't consider /SAM as a subjob, but I think you can get a very good idea from his SAM studies considering you'll be wearing about 95% of the same gear. (By the way in answer to your question of what gear to wear just check out any SAM and swap katanas for great katana.)

If money was not an issue, NIN would be by far the best DD in the game. Even the level 28 Shuriken has higher DPS than any relic I know.

Another point that no one else mentioned, is base stats. If you choose /THF over /WAR you gain 2 DEX, but lose 4 STR. RNG loses 5 STR and 2 DEX. Even before you consider any abilities and job traits (of which WAR has the best), WAR also has the best base stats. (Based on: http://ffxi-stat-calc.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/ffxistats.cgi)

THF and RNG can get some really high spike damage and will be fun in situations like campaign, but WAR will pretty much always give you the best DoT.

You could try going /BLM for the best elemental wheel, but I still don't think that's going to out DoT regular melee even as Tarutaru.

I'm sorry that SE hasn't made more jobs viable as subjobs, but that's the way I see it. Good luck.
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2008-12-16 15:19:53
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Sorry Malicfayt, but wrong also. Weapon DPS isn't close to being the be-all/end-all some people think. Buffs and gear more than skew those numbers. You also have to consider that ranged attacks have "sweet spots" that you need to stand in to do max damage. I'd like to see you try and get into said "sweet spot" in a merit pt thats roaming an area and killing mobs every 30 seconds. Even if you did get into that spot, if you pull hate then its messed up, and as you said, you have to run in to WS. How much time is wasted by running back and forth to a mob and ur ranged location. Nin has good ranged gear like i said a few posts back, but the way the game is played and how party's function will always make suri spam 2nd rate to up front Nin's. Not to mention how foolishly expensive it would be.
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2008-12-16 15:23:11
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Yes b/c we all know a Nin using lvl 28 shuri with an unlimited supply could outparse an Apoc and an Amano

And regarding /war outparsing all other subs on Sam by 10% that is incorrect, as Ruke showed that with optimal gear /drg actually outparsed /war slightly.
 Kujata.Malicfayt
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By Kujata.Malicfayt 2008-12-16 15:49:38
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I knew someone with a lack of imagination would come along and try to create problems.

If you use windower Then finding said sweet spot is no problem. If your a ranger your pretty much used to knowing how far you go back. Also did i say go out of your way to WS? Yea yea sitting on TP bad Malicfayt. But do you honestly think it would matter in this instance? Plus colibri die fast so you'd get many times to WS no problem. there are also -enmity options open to ninja which i did not express. Did you also forget that if you do pull hate you also have nice DD gear to put up high numbers as well? or would you prefer to try out running the mob in your Kyahan so you can get more distance for a ranged attack? Let me ask you this, When your berserk is down do you sit in the corner and cry for 2 mins until its back up?

Sure you lose the right to be in haste rotation but meh. using double march in a Merit party is.... well... your DPS is higher with march / minuet. But your right absolutely no ranged buffs exist. Oh wait...... >_>

I guess i can't leave anything to anyones imagination *sigh*, i really didn't think i would have to express every available option. have i yet? Nope! I like people to actually think for themselves.

Honestly you knock it like you've tried it and you have not. Nor have you seen it. So... Yea thats all i really have to say
 Bahamut.Ericcheco
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By Bahamut.Ericcheco 2008-12-16 16:43:24
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nin/war only if your trying to dd, /drk if your trying to keep hate, dont do /thf...comon your better then that. Senji/fudo is what is gonna bring you over the hill as a dd nin, crits is what separtes katans from just higher delay daggers, and /war is gonna make you hit more then any other sub. just dont plan on being a dd b4 blade jin...its just not gonna work. "Your gonna have a bad time"
 Remora.Dubont
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By Remora.Dubont 2008-12-16 17:42:55
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@ Devek. Nin technically IS a DD job. It was intended and thrown into the game as a Puller/DD not a tank. The tanks were War PLD SAM and MNK. People saw how good blink tanking is and started doing it. I could never blink tanks. It takes too much skill and awareness to do. As a result, I take nin down the DD road. I can stay on par in DMG with almost all DD. At lv 42 and I've tanked 3 parties and out damaged most people in ever party I dont tank. SO dont say nin isnt a DD b/c thats just wrong. It depends on how you gear the Job.
 Hades.Evilpaul
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By Hades.Evilpaul 2008-12-16 19:04:52
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Malicfayt said:
19.69 DPS on a majin. Count it. Go look up a Relics DPS. The highest DPS Relic in the game as i know of is Mandau @ 13.3. Does that include the poison effect? I wouldn't think so probably not but im not 100% certain. Shuriken have the highest DPS in the game period. Ninja has the potential to be the best DD in the game but SE made it unrealistically expensive to even think about that route. Anyways once you built up TP go in change to WS gear and Jin.
As NIN/WAR I have 20% Haste in gear, 15% more from the White magic spell, and ~22%(?) more from March x2. In addition to 2 Enhances Dual Wield pieces of gear. Haste and Dual Wield both increase DPS. You are in effect getting roughly doubled DPS because of all these things.

/RNG has...Rapid Shot. No Snapshot merits and no Velocity Shot.
Dubont said:
@ Devek. Nin technically IS a DD job. It was intended and thrown into the game as a Puller/DD not a tank. The tanks were War PLD SAM and MNK. People saw how good blink tanking is and started doing it. I could never blink tanks. It takes too much skill and awareness to do. As a result, I take nin down the DD road. I can stay on par in DMG with almost all DD. At lv 42 and I've tanked 3 parties and out damaged most people in ever party I dont tank. SO dont say nin isnt a DD b/c thats just wrong. It depends on how you gear the Job.
Like Devek said, this isn't 2006. The "SE didn't want NIN to tank!" or whatever is tired and irrelevant.

A NIN/RDM or /BLM in the 40-50 level range spamming elemental spells is a top tier DD at those levels. It's not at 57 when WARs are spamming Rampage and you can bust out Blade: Chi or whatever. It's not at 75 when WARs, SAMs, MNKs, DRKs, DRGs, etc all have better WS and the same or higher DoT.
 Fairy.Lethewaters
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By Fairy.Lethewaters 2008-12-16 19:20:33
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For subs ( not in any order) go THF WAR RNG DNC or MNK

I skimmed alot but I didn't see many list /MNK.

TBH I think MNKs are highly underrated. I've seen MNKS tank up into the mid 40s with a good Mage and we still pulled off EXP chain 4 and 5 (Without PLs I add).

If you're going to be DD, have it in your /sea all. Try to nab a PT with a PLD (preferred) or NIN tank and possibly a THF depending on your set-up. I'll proably get flammed for this but my opinion of NIN tanks has always been low. I rarely see a NIN with knowledge of the elemental wheel and 99.9% of the time only casts shadows. If you go /DNC though you can forget lfp really as you can solo pretty well after lvl 30.
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