Trial Of Magians: Best Of All Jobs.

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Trial of Magians: Best of All Jobs.
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By Kanjirou 2010-03-24 09:16:05
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So, there have already been a lot of Magian posts devoted to specific jobs or weapon types, but in browsing some of those, I've noticed some weapons that are so good they actually make me want to take up certain jobs just so I can use them. In particular, the H2H, Dagger and (regular) Katana lines have some awesome weaps.

And then I realized that if I were get those weapons later, after I finished lvling, everyone else would probably already be done.

Right now, it's actually kind of easy to progress in these things, since parties can share kills -- it's just really time-consuming. Whenever I show up to a place to kill NMs or mobs for points, half a dozen other people are already there doing the same thing, and we can pt.

I think I'd like to take advantage of that while I can. So I'm wondering what weapons are worth getting.

What are you upgrading? Which weaps stand out for your job? Are there any others that you might consider lvling another job just so you could use it?
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By Kanjirou 2010-03-24 09:18:51
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Oh, to start us off:

Right now I'm working on the GK line, towards Radennotachi (base dmg 89) and then later probably Kurodachi (Occ. att. twice, base dmg 68).
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By Ifrit.Duanyu 2010-03-24 09:29:12
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The polearm is looking pretty nice right now base dmg of 87 and with one path you get +12 dmg, 99dmg sounds nice too me. Also drk can get 105 dmg lol, can you say overpowered!
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By Asura.Sechs 2010-03-24 09:58:24
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Which are the "awesome" H2H? D:
As for Katana yeah, some are really incredible.
Me? I don't know what I'm gonna do. Wait for more tests/comments for the moment. I'm so busy levelling subjobs I really am not asking for something to kill my time. Will probably do the +5MAB H2H for PUP, but I still have to check the trials conditions for that.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-03-24 10:00:30
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The OAT weapons in each class absolutely destroy the other options if they proc like Joyeuse, but they're not easy to get. Max damage is probably your next best option. There's some other pieces for niche use that are alright.

For anybody who's wondering, Hagun outdamages Radennotachi on WS by ~10%. So... yeah, don't sell your Haguns yet. Haven't done the math on Kurodachi yet, so all I'll say right now is that it's 5-hittable with strong gear.

OAT Scythe destroys the 105 damage one assuming 50% proc rate. I'm not joking. It also supports a 5-hit since it's 528 delay...

EDIT: NIN's new best non-relic combo is probably the Mozu/Izatu combo, for anyone who was wondering. Haven't looked at most of the other DW weapons.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-03-24 10:03:17
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Asura.Sechs said:
Which are the "awesome" H2H? D:
As for Katana yeah, some are really incredible.
Me? I don't know what I'm gonna do. Wait for more tests/comments for the moment. I'm so busy levelling subjobs I really am not asking for something to kill my time. Will probably do the 5MAB H2H for PUP, but I still have to check the trials conditions for that.
Wargfangs with OAT, D:21 Mantis after that.
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By Kanjirou 2010-03-24 10:09:53
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Asura.Sechs said:
Which are the "awesome" H2H? D:

I didn't check the math but Vegetto posted some stats about Mantis and Warfgangs about halfway down this post:

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/?topic_id=8787&page=1#478200
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
For anybody who's wondering, Hagun outdamages Radennotachi on WS by ~10%. So... yeah, don't sell your Haguns yet. Haven't done the math on Kurodachi yet, so all I'll say right now is that it's 5-hittable with strong gear.

Yeah, Raden's not going to outperform Hagun except on things like Meikyo and Rana. But it's still pretty good, and it's free, so I'm getting it. Plus, I just read that there's another tier in the DAT files that isn't accessible yet, so it's likely it will be upgraded further in next updates.

Kurodachi is 464 delay, so it requires 64 sTP (29 in gear assuming Merits) to 5-hit. Do you know of a build I don't? =/ I'm not asking rhetorically, I would absolutely love to do that. 5-hit Kurodachi could rock socks if the proc is decent and you don't have to gimp yourself to do it.

The Scythe looks hot. Too bad I don't have DRK.
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By Odin.Blazza 2010-03-24 10:12:12
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For the one-handed weapons, is it possible to get two of the same? Or two with the same name different stats at least?
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By Asura.Sechs 2010-03-24 10:19:46
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Yeah I already seen Mantis, but I'm still raising my eybrow wondering if it will outperform's destroyers Crit bonus or not.
As for the Warfangs, didn't those things have something like +180ish delay? With such a huge delay they'de need a good proc rate on the bonus to prove worthy.
Remember we still know nothing about that, people are assuming a lot of stuff but it could be 1% just like 80%, we don't know
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-03-24 10:26:09
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Odin.Blazza said:
For the one-handed weapons, is it possible to get two of the same? Or two with the same name different stats at least?
I think they're AUG/EX rather than AUG/R/EX, so it should be.
Kanjirou said:
Kurodachi is 464 delay, so it requires 64 sTP (29 in gear assuming Merits) to 5-hit. Do you know of a build I don't? =/ I'm not asking rhetorically, I would absolutely love to do that. 5-hit Kurodachi could rock socks if the proc is decent and you don't have to gimp yourself to do it.
There's a few ways to do it. Two methods not dependent on Carbonara:

Rose Strap, Brutal, Usukane Haramaki, Hachi Kote +1 OR NQ + Ecphoria, Rajas, Usukane Sune-Ate and WSing in Rose, Brutal, Usu/Domaru, Rajas, and Hachi Sune-ate OR White Tathlum

Rose Strap, White Tathlum, Brutal, ACC/STP Nuevo, Hachi Kote +1 OR NQ + Ecphoria, Rajas, Usukane Sune-Ate and WSing in Rose, Domaru, Rajas, and Hachi Sune-ate OR White Tathlum

The first being ideal or at least close to it, the second being a more NQ build. If you don't have Usu feet it may not be worth attempting without Carbonara, assuming it's better than Hagun to begin with.
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By Bahamut.Satanas 2010-03-24 10:27:24
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Odin.Blazza said:
For the one-handed weapons, is it possible to get two of the same? Or two with the same name different stats at least?

i dont think so, since they have the "rare" stamp on it, i think ><
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-03-24 10:28:01
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Quote:
Yeah I already seen Mantis, but I'm still raising my eybrow wondering if it will outperform's destroyers Crit bonus or not.
As for the Warfangs, didn't those things have something like +180ish delay? With such a huge delay they'de need a good proc rate on the bonus to prove worthy.
Remember we still know nothing about that, people are assuming a lot of stuff but it could be 1% just like 80%, we don't know
I've been saying "ASSUMING 50% PROC RATE" in every damn post for a reason. Given the difficulty in obtaining them, 50% is a reasonable assumption.

Mantis > Destroyers, Faiths >>> Destroyers, and Wargfangs > Faiths (assuming, blah blah blah). Destroyer's crit bonus is pretty overrated.
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By Kanjirou 2010-03-24 10:35:28
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Thnx Nightfyre. I'm still a relatively inexperienced SAM so seeing setups like that are very useful for me.

About how high do you think the proc rate would have to be on Kurodachi to make this worthwhile v.s. Hagun? As of now, I don't think anyone knows what the proc is on any of the OAT weaps, and I have a hard time convincing myself to put in the time when it could be for naught. At least with Raden I know I get something that's good situationally (e.g. I can't see anything wrong with swapping it in for Meikyo.) I'll probably wait til someone knows the proc rate for sure before getting it.

Also, here's a question: does anyone know if mages got something worthwhile out of this?
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-03-24 10:44:56
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I haven't actually mathed Kurodachi v Hagun yet, going to look at that in a sec. BLU finally got an OAT weapon; the max damage weapon is a downgrade from Perdu. RDM got a couple of semi-interesting toys... an acc+10 sword and a sword that lowers the enemy's magic evasion by 10 (essentially MACC+10 for the RDM) among them, but I don't know that they're actually worthwhile. I'd assume anything meleeable is also reasonably easy to enfeeble.
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By Ramuh.Krizz 2010-03-24 10:47:59
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Odin.Blazza said:
For the one-handed weapons, is it possible to get two of the same? Or two with the same name different stats at least?
If the final form has the same name, I think the r/ex will stop you even if different stats.
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2010-03-24 10:54:14
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I've been wondering about GK, Polearm, or even GA anyone have any info on these at all?

and Really OAT Scythe over 105 att? I think a OAT scythe sounds pretty hot but that's just me.
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By Kanjirou 2010-03-24 10:55:49
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We've been talking about the GKs above, and there's a 99 dmg PA that looks pretty nice. A friend of mine is working on that and almost done (it looks like he might be the first on our server? wicked.) I'll see what he thinks of it when he has it.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-03-24 11:17:19
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SAM/DRG for both. Assuming 50% proc rate:

Kurodachi 6-hit: Rajas + Brutal. That's all.

Hagun 6-hit: This first comparison will use the Rajas/Rose/Brutal/Ecphoria combo. All but Ecphoria on WS of course.

Kurodachi: WS + 5 hits to 100 TP. Assuming 50% proc rate, our net DA is now 53.75% (doesn't stack with Pole/Brutal). 5/1.5375=3.25 rounds to WS. Using Walahra, Dusk Gloves, Swift Belt, Byakko's Haidate, Fuma's, and Wyvern Earring + Hasso, Haste, and double Marches, that's an average of 8.52 seconds to 100 TP after accounting for 95% accuracy. Assuming you WS in 140 STR against a mob with 75 VIT, your base damage on YGK with Sea gorget is (68+(140*.75)*.83+(140-75)/4)*1.6625=284. Base damage during TP is 74 assuming a NQ build on a STR merited Hume using Hasso and an average of 0.587 swings per second.

Hagun: WS + 5 hits to 100 TP, 5% DA, same Haste as before, 12.1 seconds to WS. 351 base damage on WS. Base damage during TP is 81, 0.413 swings per second.

Kurodachi WS's 42% faster but hits 23.6% weaker, for a net gain of 14.9%. Kurodachi has the same speed advantage in TP but hits 9.5% weaker, net gain of 29.7%.

70:30 WS:TP split, total change... 14.9*0.7+29.7*0.3=19.34% increase over Hagun.

Uh... wow. That's not even with a 5-hit and it completely stomps Hagun. Better gear isn't going to close the gap because that gear allows Kuro to 5-hit, so it would expand instead. I didn't even factor in jumps or additional WS damage from TP overflow =\ Hagun would only ever win if you were basically only Meditate + WSing. As long as the proc rate is above 25%, Kurodachi wins. That number would be even lower if you're using a 5-hit build.

edited: delay error
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By Kanjirou 2010-03-24 11:39:30
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...Jesus.
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By Varistor 2010-03-24 12:48:18
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Bahamut.Zorander said:
I've been wondering about GK, Polearm, or even GA anyone have any info on these at all? and Really OAT Scythe over 105 att? I think a OAT scythe sounds pretty hot but that's just me.


OAT?
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-03-24 12:53:25
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Occasionally attacks twice.
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By Ramuh.Scizor 2010-03-24 12:59:01
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Bahamut.Satanas said:
Odin.Blazza said:
For the one-handed weapons, is it possible to get two of the same? Or two with the same name different stats at least?

i dont think so, since they have the "rare" stamp on it, i think ><

They have AUG/EX so you can have multiple of the same weapon, but you cant have 2 swords (for example) on the go at the same time. But you could do 1 sword and 1 dagger simultaneously.

Edit: Just out of curiosity does anyone know where i can find crabs (ep+@75) with constant weather effect?
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By Ramuh.Lilsanchez 2010-03-24 13:01:08
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+12 Evasion on Dagger
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By Ifrit.Duanyu 2010-03-24 13:04:57
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Bahamut.Zorander said:
I've been wondering about GK, Polearm, or even GA anyone have any info on these at all?

and Really OAT Scythe over 105 att? I think a OAT scythe sounds pretty hot but that's just me.

no the scythe with 105 dmg isn't one that occasionally attacks twice.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-03-24 13:07:54
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Ramuh.Scizor said:
Edit: Just out of curiosity does anyone know where i can find crabs (ep @75) with constant weather effect?
Vunkerl Inlet has weather fairly often.
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By Ramuh.Scizor 2010-03-24 13:11:17
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ramuh.Scizor said:
Edit: Just out of curiosity does anyone know where i can find crabs (ep @75) with constant weather effect?
Vunkerl Inlet has weather fairly often.

Hmmm how often is often? I have 100 crabs to wipe out lol
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By Ifrit.Duanyu 2010-03-24 13:13:05
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Ramuh.Scizor said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ramuh.Scizor said:
Edit: Just out of curiosity does anyone know where i can find crabs (ep @75) with constant weather effect?
Vunkerl Inlet has weather fairly often.

Hmmm how often is often? I have 100 crabs to wipe out lol

quite often
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By Caitsith.Neonracer 2010-03-24 13:58:28
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Anything good come out of the add on yet for Blue Mage?


PLs list all ( if any) will beneifit blue, I'm dammned Curious.... we're left in the dark.... oops did I say Drk?

( Np pun intended) LoLDrk
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By Ramuh.Scizor 2010-03-24 14:03:39
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Caitsith.Neonracer said:
Anything good come out of the add on yet for Blue Mage?


PLs list all ( if any) will beneifit blue, I'm dammned Curious.... we're left in the dark.... oops did I say Drk?

( Np pun intended) LoLDrk


http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_the_Magians

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