Game Design Exercise: Rework Nin

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Game Design Exercise: Rework Nin
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2021-03-05 01:51:01
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
it feels too depended upon getting their shadows up and hard to super tank in that

Maybe we have been looking at supertanking on NIN incorrectly. You can't reasonably keep 7 shadows up vs 10 monsters. So you have to build around those 7+6+5 shadows and mitigate your damage in other ways. There are ways.
Used to be, that you could do this with extremely high evasion builds, but with the current model, AoE abilities from mobs stripping all shadows, it doesn't help, if they reverted to the old school, where an AoE wiped 1 or 2 shadows combined with higher Eva, super tanking for NIN could still be viable.
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2021-03-05 02:01:09
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Sylph.Reain said: »
You can't reasonably expect to keep 7 shadows up against 1 monster. And they made the whole job revolve around Utsusemi.

Umm, build your ninja better, shadows VS. a single target is still very potent. But it takes a good amount of gear building, FC sets, Eva sets, DT sets, Meva sets, miscast reduction sets. Single targets are mostly a joke, unless they spam all shadow stripping AoE attacks constantly. But even then, if you're flooring your cast time (aka FC) and recast times (aka max haste + capped FC to bump) with ichi, ni, and san, shadows are there.

I 100% agree that the biggest boost ninja could get in it's current meta is to eliminate yonin/innin decay and position handicaps. Flat out, would be the simplest 1st step to test the waters. 2nd would be how hard AoE strips multiple shadows (for NIN main only)

Anything further from those two adjustments would be a bonus.

Those 2 would step up ninja tremendously though, with proper gear builds all of it is 'doable per situation' from there.

Ninja is a very gear intensive job to make it perform well, it's complicated, and not easy to put basic gear into and shines right out of the gate. Always has been that way with the job, it's why I like it, compared to other jobs.
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By Thunderjet 2021-03-05 02:03:36
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ITS JUST evasion does not work that well since ilvl upgrades something was changed or the number's dont really work the same with much higher level mobs
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2021-03-05 02:06:49
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Also, your precast and miscast sets shine the greatest with ichi, I feel like most post SoA ninjas completely ignore that ***. That was our bread and butter back in the day.

Anyone remember way back, when a good ninja could actually time his ichi cast just right between mob attack rounds, where an interupt, could still happen, but a well timed ninja it rarely did? Anyone remember the days, when an interupted utsusemi ninja could be quick enough to swap to a DT set if they had to ride it out? VS a newb ninja that would panic and keep spamming their utsu macro? A ninja that could keep their head when ***got harry, knew the timing?

Those were the golden days of NIN, when most of us were guerillas like that.
 Leviathan.Draugo
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2021-03-05 02:07:51
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Thunderjet said: »
ITS JUST evasion does not work that well since ilvl upgrades something was changed or the number's dont really work the same with much higher level mobs
Yes, they do not scale as well, but... There is talk now again of the next gen of Eva builds, and they are sounding quite promising.
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2021-03-05 02:10:28
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Leviathan.Draugo said: »
I 100% agree that the biggest boost ninja could get in it's current meta is to eliminate yonin/innin decay and position handicaps. Flat out, would be the simplest 1st step to test the waters. 2nd would be how hard AoE strips multiple shadows (for NIN main only)
This is the most straight forward, steps that would make NIN great again.
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By Leviathan.Draugo 2021-03-05 02:23:36
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I would posit, if yonin was active, extremely reduces AoE stripping, innin active let it stand as is, would be very potent.
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By Eboneezer 2021-03-05 03:29:06
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i think you should be able to instantly summon that big *** frog from the job emote and let it eat an AOE instead of your shadows.

And no recast so fights become gloriously obnoxious. They can even keep the animation lock if it makes them feel better.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-03-05 03:41:27
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Leviathan.Draugo said: »
I would posit, if yonin was active, extremely reduces AoE stripping, innin active let it stand as is, would be very potent.
Yes, I proposed a solution for that. Not sure if it's even feasible.
If you have Yonin up and an AoE move (AoE! Not single target ones) removes all your shadows, then the move itself is gonna deal less damage to you. Damage reduction will be a small amount for each Shadow that was cancelled and will stack above 50% DT.
Not sure how much this amount should be, somewhere around ~2%? With shadows it would be ~14% DT2. Not sure if we could afford having more than that wihout making Yonin OP.


Anyway, this way you can idle in 50% DT gear and keep your shadows up and get a small reduction in damage for moves that strip your shadows.


...I guess this would do nothing against moves that ignore shadows, but frankly there's not many moves that do that.
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