Gaol: Unplayable Content Because Of Lag

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Gaol: Unplayable content because of lag
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 Phoenix.Amarok
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By Phoenix.Amarok 2021-02-11 06:57:10
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So gameplay lag has become a big issue for most of the players in my circle, and it seems to be somehow just accepted and not challenged much. Whether this is because in Japan the effects are not as bad or even noticeable we don't know.

Lag can be caused by a lot of things, but I think it's important here to separate a few major types.

1. Lag caused by your gaming setup, poor performance PC or internet connection.
2. Lag caused by congestion at the SE end, exacerbated by your distance from the servers.

Ever since D-Dyna introduced the ranking system where you had the on-screen counter for your rank items, it seems SE have reached a server side limit where lag is unavoidable even on the fastest internet and PC.

You can just about live with it in d-dyna but it kills the fun of being able to react and play well like we've learned to do in older content areas (stunning a TP moves, re-casting utsusemi, curing someone about to die etc).

Then Odyssey came out and right from the get-go similar lag exists in the Sheol A, B and C areas. A good test of lag is to do an emote to another player and see how long it takes to show in the log. D-Dyna and Sheol seem to be 1-2s extra lag than normal, but sometimes even worse for certain players.

Now we have Gaol and the lag has gone off the charts. We enter with 6 players and some like myself can get lucky and see a 1-2s lag only in the waiting area, while others see 6s lag for any action, and inventory doesn't load fully even after 3 minutes of waiting.

I was most surprised to see it can even be drastically different for 2 chars in the same household. I run my main on an AMD 5950 processor and AMD 6800XT GPU (yes I paid through the teeth for that). My 2nd char is on a 1950x threadripper and Titan X maxwell GPU (no slouch) and yet this char consistently gets the 6s lag in Gaol. Both chars on the same 350Mb fibre internet (Virgin in the UK).

A few in our LS have pretty much done everything we want to do in this game, beaten the master trials, got all the REMAs we need and R15d them, and we've been pinning our hopes on new content to keep our favourite pastime going.

Gaol seems really interesting and challenging, exactly what we need right now, but we can't play it. We go in and attempt to guess when to chuck out a cure or erase, people jump about all over the place due to update lag, it's just not possible to do anything but put your best gear on and luck your way through a win.

I read today the accepted bug report listed here:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/57736-Abnormal-connection-behavior-within-Odyssey-battle-content-Sheol-Gaol

Which brings up the capped network bandwidth size which is getting trounced inside Goal areas. I hadn't even considered SE might be trying to push more data than their own cap allows since I would have expected that to affect JP players the same way, but maybe it doesn't somehow.

Anyway, if SE do not address this and soon (including fixing the extra lag in d-dyna and sheol) then I think it will force me to finally retire from the game, as it has now become a key skill to predict actions ahead of lag (anyone ever run into a d-dyna statue cos it hadn't loaded yet?).

I don't see a lot of talk about this issue outside of the game so wanted to just dump all my moans here about it now and see what others think. Also other than bombard the official forums with new bug reports (since you can't reply to existing ones to support them, only up-vote), how can we get SE to wake up to it?
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 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2021-02-11 08:04:31
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most players haven't actually been playing sheol gaol methinks.

I got a few clears, and backed off deciding I would play it once the lag was fixed.
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 Asura.Wotasu
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By Asura.Wotasu 2021-02-11 08:11:52
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More or less what our group has done as well.
 Asura.Aessk
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By Asura.Aessk 2021-02-11 08:23:01
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I'm pretty sure these instanced areas are on a shared server. But are lower pop servers seeing the same lag?

With the increased segment farming, even shoal C is unplayable for me. Getting 5+s delays if what I hit ever even happens at all.
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By eeternal 2021-02-11 08:43:38
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Rag server here and it's super laggy
 Phoenix.Logical
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By Phoenix.Logical 2021-02-11 08:51:31
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I can say from a lower population server standpoint that it's not nearly as bad as you all are describing for me. If you watch my Sheol Gaol NM vid's you will see the delay for me is practically non-existent, though that small delay is present that I have in all Sheol maps. Now, I will say once last week fighting one NM I did have 3-5 second delay which I'd never had before. Only 8 people were in the entire zone so don't think it was over congestion. I re-entered 5 minutes later for another NM and had no issues. I know this doesn't help, just reporting my own experiences. Feel bad for the ones who cant' enjoy this new content, hope they fix it soon!!!

-Phoenix Server
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By RadialArcana 2021-02-11 08:55:07
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Have you tried doing this content without any 3rd party programs running at all? JP players don't seem to be bringing this up, and very much like DynaD not everyone seems to have it.

Does this have some mechanic like in DynaD with the necks etc, that are constantly being updated and possibly leading to congestion?

Are you using chat filters.

Do you have mog wardrone 3-4?
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 Asura.Kusare
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By Asura.Kusare 2021-02-11 09:00:24
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i filed a bug report when gaol came out and they moved it as not a bug to technical support, but i'll drop a like on yours.

they really need to understand it's not something on our end.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2021-02-11 09:02:14
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I've experienced pretty bad Dyna-D lag even on a smaller server.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2021-02-11 09:52:54
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You can always tell if it's you that's the cause or if it's SE.

If you do Omen during card event, lag will almost always happen cause of the number of people in the zone. You will notice a huge difference of lag outside of event. That's when you know that you aren't the cause of lag.
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-02-11 10:00:07
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RadialArcana said: »
Have you tried doing this content without any 3rd party programs running at all? JP players don't seem to be bringing this up, and very much like DynaD not everyone seems to have it.

Does this have some mechanic like in DynaD with the necks etc, that are constantly being updated and possibly leading to congestion?

Are you using chat filters.

Do you have mog wardrone 3-4?
There's a mechanic where you gain RP depending on how much HP the boss has lost even if you don't kill it, which could theoretically do the same thing if they were dumb and had it checking and updating in real time instead of when you get kicked out.
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By RadialArcana 2021-02-11 10:12:11
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Are you sure this isn't some kind of graphics lag due to your card not properly implementing semi transparent effects?

Tried turning weather off inside to see if the sky textures are causing it, or those fetter things (that are also in Dyna D and Lillith)

If you get the issue worse on a different PC in the same house this suggests it's not connection lag.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-11 10:19:09
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There are no fetters in Gaol if you do Atonement 1/2 NMs, and there is still persistent lag. I do not think it has as much to do with the players as it does some way they coded this event. It is unplayable on some days. Fetters and huge monster models/animations may exacerbate the problem, but it even exists with smaller monsters as well. I have no idea why they would add fetters to an already laggy event, but they probably assumed since there was little impact in Sheol and Lilith BCs, it would be fine. The zone needs to be fixed. None of us will be able to effectively attempt Vengence+15 on Atonement 3, and probably Atonement 2 would be risky for some monsters even.

I think I am going to complain on the OF as well.
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 Asura.Kusare
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By Asura.Kusare 2021-02-11 10:20:01
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if you read the first post SE already accepted it as a bug, we know there's a problema and now they do too.
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By RadialArcana 2021-02-11 10:22:35
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 Phoenix.Amarok
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By Phoenix.Amarok 2021-02-11 10:37:59
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RadialArcana said: »
Are you sure this isn't some kind of graphics lag due to your card not properly implementing semi transparent effects?

Tried turning weather off inside to see if the sky textures are causing it, or those fetter things (that are also in Dyna D and Lillith)

If you get the issue worse on a different PC in the same house this suggests it's not connection lag.

Indeed it's got to be something right? I might be a minority that can actually see both the 6s and 1-2s lag at the same time. The problem is I have the same settings across both characters/machines, and yes I did test with vanilla POL as well, nothing changed.

I don't normally try turning things off, I've never had to in the past for performance reasons and it's doubtful something in the waiting room causes huge graphics lag like no other place in the game. dgvoodoo2 seems to handle wrapping of DX9 graphics into DX11/12 hardware, and I have no problem getting 60 or 75 fps with config frameratedivisor 0, even in Geol, it's just the network response from the servers that's slow.

To confirm the 6s lag is unplayable but the ultimate goal here is to get rid of even the 1-2s lag in d-dyna and Odyssey. Its not there in any other part of the game, even back in the days of 700 people in besieged. It's literally a game changer having 1-2s lag when you need to react in real-time.

Next time I get a chance to bring both chars into the same fight, I'll load them switched over on the machines, see if the lag follows the char or stays with the machine.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-11 11:30:32
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Lag is Gaol is crazy for 90% of players. I had same lag in worst dynamis d runs, but only with full ally. While trio boxing dynamis D, I have no issue at all. I live almost as far from jp servers as it's physically possible tho (Poland).
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 Odin.Senaki
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By Odin.Senaki 2021-02-11 11:52:16
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SimonSes said: »
I live (in) Poland.
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By Torzak 2021-02-11 12:14:03
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The lag in DynaD resulted in me doing the full clears early-on on RDM and then thereafter I think I did DynaD like 4 or 5 more times total. I *might* have two or three relic armor upgrade wins total for different jobs other than RDM. And I just accepted that.. So more or less I got the wins and said f' that. I would cast silence like 5x until I'd finally see in the log 'no effect' and then I'd question which of the previous casts even landed because the log never showed. DynaD was miserable stupid content because of the lag.

I did two bosses in Odyssey a couple'ish weeks ago, and it took like a literal 8 secs from the time I used a WS macro until it visually showed the WS going. Half of the boss difficulty is lag. It's not fun. It's worse than DynaD as far as what I've seen.
 Phoenix.Mikumaru
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By Phoenix.Mikumaru 2021-02-11 12:14:52
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Phoenix.Logical said: »
I can say from a lower population server standpoint that it's not nearly as bad as you all are describing for me. If you watch my Sheol Gaol NM vid's you will see the delay for me is practically non-existent, though that small delay is present that I have in all Sheol maps. Now, I will say once last week fighting one NM I did have 3-5 second delay which I'd never had before. Only 8 people were in the entire zone so don't think it was over congestion. I re-entered 5 minutes later for another NM and had no issues. I know this doesn't help, just reporting my own experiences. Feel bad for the ones who cant' enjoy this new content, hope they fix it soon!!!

-Phoenix Server
I'm gunna sorta concur with this. I haven't hit Gaol yet but Sheol is hit or miss and Dynamis recently is terrible regardless of time or group size. We did Bastok lastnight and it was 3-6 seconds the whole run and having to repeatedly hit macros to get them to fire.
The worst is when you use something, be it spell or JA and nothing registers either in the log, on screen, or even the timer itself. I can't count how many times I'm trying to use flash or shield bash or Sleepga or lullaby and I keep getting the "you can't use that" message cuz the server side is on cool down but client side says you're good.
Gear not swapping with either gearswap or vanilla macros/equipsets.
Getting destroyed because of lag sucks the fun out of any encounter.
 Bismarck.Xurion
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By Bismarck.Xurion 2021-02-11 12:16:11
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
most players haven't actually been playing sheol gaol methinks.

I got a few clears, and backed off deciding I would play it once the lag was fixed.
Fixed? Have they officially accepted the state of lag and said they'd fix? If not, assume it wont be - Dyna D never was afaik.
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By RadialArcana 2021-02-11 12:21:31
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Make a thread on the official forums and keep talking about it there, if you do that then CM staff may bring it up.

Are there any threads talking about this on the JP side?
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By Torzak 2021-02-11 12:27:00
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They have two on staff that read these forums. Posting to official forums is an antiquated way of expressing the problem knowing that.

Just hit like on the OP to say you agree and let that serve as the tool by which they survey how impacted we are or aren't.
 Asura.Kusare
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By Asura.Kusare 2021-02-11 12:33:36
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you can give a like to the open accepted bug report, or post in the monthly digest thread. both will make a difference.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/57736-Abnormal-connection-behavior-within-Odyssey-battle-content-Sheol-Gaol

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/57813?p=633929#post633929
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By RadialArcana 2021-02-11 12:39:28
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Are these two kinds of content instanced or is it one group allowed in at one time?

If two or three groups want to do Dyna D Windy, can both do it simultaneously or is it like old Dyna where one group at one time allowed in there.
 Bahamut.Negan
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By Bahamut.Negan 2021-02-11 12:42:12
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Torzak said: »
They have two on staff
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By Torzak 2021-02-11 12:43:26
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There's no lockout just because someone else is already in there for either Odyssey or DynaD

There does seem to be a queue for A, B, & C similar as Ambu (how deep that queue is, I don't know). I didn't queue for the bosses I did so not sure on that one.
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By Torzak 2021-02-11 12:44:08
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Bahamut.Negan said: »
Torzak said: »
They have two on staff

Whose job it is as per their own words to look at these and other places basically daily.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2021-02-11 13:07:27
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It really says something (not something important, just something) how many people can agree but find only 1 or 2 to support it where it matters.

50,000 humans and less than five are like yeah there's some lag.

"no one liked that"
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